Guild Wars 2

From a high-level view of WvW, it seems that it’s little more than zerg A takes point B while Zerg C takes D, and then they reverse points ad nauseam for the entire week. The winner is just whoever has more players, thus they can take points faster. Where is the strategy? Am I missing something? How do you actually make a difference instead of just zerg X → Y → Z → X → etc?

What I’d like to do is to do things that the zerg doesn’t do, or neglects to.

1) Defense
2) Upgrades
3) Build sieges
4) Harrass areas the zerg isn’t hitting
5) Hylek/Dredge/Quaggans

The first 3 is boring and expensive, but it needs to be done regardless. The fact that so many commanders neglect them is infuriating.

I’ve seen a lot of small numbers turn away larger numbers by intelligence and occasionally bravery.

Not saying numbers mean nothing, but a good player can fend off a group, an organized well played group can fend off a smaller zerg, and most importantly an organized server can react quickly to commands to put the right amount of people in the right place, rather than strictly zergforce reaction to every call for support.

It only takes 1-2 to capture any unguarded camp, but 1-2 player can fend off 3-4 times their numbers, for example.

gosu.4128:

What I’d like to do is to do things that the zerg doesn’t do, or neglects to.

1) Defense
2) Upgrades
3) Build sieges
4) Harrass areas the zerg isn’t hitting
5) Hylek/Dredge/Quaggans

The first 3 is boring and expensive, but it needs to be done regardless. The fact that so many commanders neglect them is infuriating.

Thanks for that. How do you do #1-3 without a lot of running back and forth to get supplies? (Sometimes A LOT of running.) (Especially if the area you’re at has 0 supply left.) Or is that what you meant by boring? I wish there was a faster way of moving supplies than dolyaks.

i like to solo supply camps on my necro i usually target the server in the lead if its not mine

Arani.9057:

I’ve seen a lot of small numbers turn away larger numbers by intelligence and occasionally bravery.

Not saying numbers mean nothing, but a good player can fend off a group, an organized well played group can fend off a smaller zerg, and most importantly an organized server can react quickly to commands to put the right amount of people in the right place, rather than strictly zergforce reaction to every call for support.

It only takes 1-2 to capture any unguarded camp, but 1-2 player can fend off 3-4 times their numbers, for example.

How so? Any specific tactics that you are thinking of that are effective in this way?

@ OP

There is no other way.

If you’re the only one with the common sense to build sieges, it’ll be tough to go back and forth from camps to tower/keep to build sieges without people to help you.

Walking dolyaks is critical as well. It’s boring as HELL because obviously you’re walking, but you’re defending the dolyaks to make sure they get to the tower/keep.

Dolyaks = supply in tower/keep = upgrade.

Typically it shouldn’t be difficult, but many commanders don’t have the sense to defend or upgrade (zerg commanders), which is why these tasks are tougher.

@johnnyrockets

arrow carts and balista’s to start

edit: to be honest, just sounds like you need a more refined WvWvW guild to show you the ropes

JohnnyRockets.7593:

Arani.9057:

I’ve seen a lot of small numbers turn away larger numbers by intelligence and occasionally bravery.

Not saying numbers mean nothing, but a good player can fend off a group, an organized well played group can fend off a smaller zerg, and most importantly an organized server can react quickly to commands to put the right amount of people in the right place, rather than strictly zergforce reaction to every call for support.

It only takes 1-2 to capture any unguarded camp, but 1-2 player can fend off 3-4 times their numbers, for example.

How so? Any specific tactics that you are thinking of that are effective in this way?

Yea, you’re in top gear and your enemies are lvl10.

Other than that, no, not really. Except if 5-10 people decide to chase you for 10min (true story and can happen). But that’s running away not “fending off”.

Tactics and strategy help, but it only goes so far. Maybe it helps 10%, maybe it helps 20%. Sure. But beyond that, it’s a pure numbers game. And with current differences in WvW population, it’s always numbers game when it comes to end score.

Ianervan.3415:

But beyond that, it’s a pure numbers game.

Is there no WvW player-balancing??

ie only allowing players to enter WvW as equal number of players on the other realms have people queued to enter WvW.

Or is it just allow anyone to enter no matter how imbalanced?

@ Lanerva and Johnyrockets.

I did say numbers are important, but the question was what else can be done to contribute aside from a zerg.
And yes I’m in top gear, I will admit it does make a difference, but I’ve matched against similar geared and been beaten and beaten others… Smart player with good situational awareness has a bigger advantage all things being equal.

“fend off”
Draw them into Kill zones or ranges that will trigger NPC aggro. lead them into committing to the engagement by not blowing cooldowns and saving heals when they try to skirmish from a safe distance. Always have a plan for when you get wired or necro pulled. Use terrain and vector type flanking.. ie dont try to catch them straight chase, but vector at an angle that will put you to where they want to go, and get there first. If they think you are running they often chase, use terrain to turn tables. Let them come barreling over the cliff to kill you as you pop your cooldowns on them then return for their friends who are now engaged in the camp NPCs.

Use an enemy downed player to kill living ones.. I don’t stake em right away when i’m solo, get a couple down and enemy groups can panic… lots of downs can make em nervous if smaller numbers. Players panic and they usually die. If there’s no NPC they can rally on, that players time is numbered anyways… let a couple try to save em and get more for your money. When defending, know how far out reinforcements are and when need to call for them.. ie can you handle 5, 10 etc.. it shouldn’t be an ego thing. If you know what you can do you will be able to give accurate numbers to the larger force as to what you need for cavalry. GW2 favors the moving player, don’t stand still. Make it hard to be targeted easily. Situational awareness is everything for this.

Soloing camps
Learn the camps solo and social aggro radius as well as their “tether”.. ie when do they break off solo or as a group. Kill players before NPCs. Much of taking a camp solo is controlling how many at a time you need to work and have an exit strategy if jumped always. Know what you can 1v1, 2v1 and so on. If jumped while solo clearing… drag them out, it should be part of exit strat to begin with. If they chase boldly pounce em soon as the NPCs break off, should already know where the spot is. The longer it takes you to take a camp the longer that cross sword is on the map and more likely to be jumped, always camera pan for enemy as you fight. Don’t get caught unprepared.

I almost solely WvW as a mesmer I’m aware we have a lot of tricks to work with. I can’t speak for other classes. when I duo it’s usually with a necro friend. These are only a couple ideas to show there’s a lot to contribute in a small camp defense/cap role. If 1-3 player can keep 5-15 busy for a length of time, that’s just math. I hope these are helpful solo/small group ideas for you.

Some of the basic things I do to make a difference:

1. Always come to a rally point with at least 1 siege to contribute to a campaign.
2. Always bring max supply with you.
3. Defend our siege. People sometimes get tunnel vision during battle and the desire to chase down runners like a rabid dog takes over. Siege weaponry kills and breaks walls 100x better than a sword. Defend it.
4. Die a good death. Remember that you won’t make a difference if you’re dead. Get out of arrow cart range. Don’t stand under burning oil. If your health starts dropping dodge and find out why. Don’t charge into a mass of enemy unless you can invuln and get back out.

Common sense, I know…but if everyone did these things, it would make a huge difference.

Thats how baddies play WvW. Coordinated servers are more tactical.

Nope, you pretty much summed up WvW. You aren’t missing anything.

I take out my flamethrower and singlehandedly repels a team of 10 ramming the door. Can i get a hi-5 for engi pride?

High five! This suit is black NOT!

… only those who don’t understand advanced tactics and the idea of WvW rely on zergs and have no other ideas of warfare present.

Almost every answer/option in WvW is already given by posters above.

I only can emphasize one point: everyone in WvW make a difference to the outcome: the brainless zerg-player (he adds to zergs and thus to bad tactics, now helping his opponents by making his own allies dumber) and the tactical versatile player who breaks off larges groups, fights in smaller groups and does Quaggan-, supply-, Dolyak- and defend-events (he adds to battlefield control and thus inspires others to think ahead of zerg-tactics).

So yes, YOU make the difference

JohnnyRockets.7593:

Ianervan.3415:

But beyond that, it’s a pure numbers game.

Is there no WvW player-balancing??

ie only allowing players to enter WvW as equal number of players on the other realms have people queued to enter WvW.

Or is it just allow anyone to enter no matter how imbalanced?

There is a max cap on players per server in each map. How many you have relative to the enemy is not taken into account (doing so would only penalize higher pop servers unfairly).

As for how I make a difference? I play with an organised guild. We can hold keeps/towers against 3-4 times our numbers easily, we go where we are needed and use the terrain to our advantage whenever possible. Once you get an organised group on voice comm you open up a whole new range of tactical and strategic possibilities that are simply impossible to carry out with a pug zerg. Using portals offensively/defensively, proper flanking maneuvers and sneak attacks on keeps where no one even realizes you are attacking are a few examples.

As a single player your personal impact is limited, however as part of an organised group (even as small kitten 10 people) you can have a massive influence on the outcome.

You want to make a difference, you need to be committed.
Spend your badges and silver for siege weapons, call enough people with supplies (always have supplies with you), place it smart and see what happen.
A mindless zerg with no siege will get beaten by 1 ballista with smart placement.