Guild Wars 2

When GW2 first launched, WvW was commonly considered one of the best RvR implementations at the time. It’s had struggles since, but with the additions and updates of the past year, how does the WvW community think it stacks up against all other current options (current only, not in-development stuff like Camelot Unchained, etc)?

How do you stack rank all current RvR options? Eg:

1. GW2 WvW
2. Elder Scrolls Online
3. [RvR game #3]
4. [RvR game #4]
5. etc

1. ESO, no downed state
2. GW2, no 1v15 face tanking

1. ESO
2. GW2

<15 chars.

1. ????
2. GW2 WVW
3. ESO
4. Planetside

I’m here precisely because no one else has bothered trying to do what Anet does. Or, perhaps, not even Anet has bothered trying. ESO has a limited scope with transient teams and very little to do outside of an organized group. Planetside has constant, large-scale teams but is also not very fun outside of an organized guild. Ironically, Guild Wars is the best option for playing guildless. I value a game with a low barrier to entry with fast-paced action and Things to be done. It also needs to have an easy way for a bunch of random people to come together and do big things.

So, perhaps by accident, Anet has easily nabbed the top of the existing crowd. When I’m not playing GW2, I’m not off playing some other RvR game. However, it doesn’t feel right calling them the best…

Sviel.7493:

1. ????
2. GW2 WVW
3. ESO
4. Planetside

I’m here precisely because no one else has bothered trying to do what Anet does. Or, perhaps, not even Anet has bothered trying. ESO has a limited scope with transient teams and very little to do outside of an organized group.

Thats actually wrong.

1. Allods online
2. GW2
3. Warhammer online
4. rest total kitten

GW2 is by far the best on the PC and there isn’t anything even close. Free and even with the expansion cost still cheaper than anything decent out there.

ESO, its advantage is that it runs on a console and has a much bigger audience there. ESO recently has started to get better RvR but early on it was a complete disaster. Still laggy, still grindy, greater population imbalance issues, LONG runs to good fights that don’t last long enough.

DAoC the more or less original is solid but far too old school and dated. Warhammer was a complete unbalanced mess with tons of bugs. Way, way, way worse than any other major title. Planetside is effectively a shooter not an RPG. CU is far too old school for my liking and still fairly buggy in the betas.

Allods, Rift, WoW… not real RvR.

List of options.
Guildwars 2 – The easiest rvr game I got into and spent the most time in, with options for different roles. Combat and balance has changed too much for me to enjoy it these days.
Planetside – One of the best and fun rvr games. Not just a “shooter” since you had to level to unlock more stuff.
Warhammer online – Capture territory all the way up to enemy’s main city to ransack it, suffered from major lag.
Elder scrolls online – Didn’t play much, but huge map, need a group to enjoy.
Planetside 2 – Didn’t play much, had issues with the ui.
Dark age of camelot – Didn’t get to rvr, but it’s what wvw was based off of.
Allods – Pay to win, so only played the beta.

do dead games count?

bugs, bad class balance and just being an old game ASIDE id say

Warhammer Online > GW2
the RvR system was better imo, you had just in tier 4 a total of 9 maps to fight for and the way it worked was that for each map you captured the closer you got to your enemies homecity so you can sack it and kill their king

There are different kinds of RvR, it is hard to rank it but I would say gw2 RvR is casual which has its pro and con.

Straegen.2938:

CU is far too old school for my liking and still fairly buggy in the betas.

There is no CU yet, it’s just a game project in development, currently in Alpha state, close to first Beta, so can’t be put on this list – yet. About bugs in a project that is not even in beta… that’s… no comment. But it’s the only real upcoming competitor to WvW, though WvW could still have it’s own niche: converting PvE players to a fun, team based PvP. More games is better, it’s not like there can be only “One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, One ring to bring them all…”

Tiawal.2351:

Straegen.2938:

CU is far too old school for my liking and still fairly buggy in the betas.

There is no CU yet, it’s just a game project in development, currently in Alpha state, close to first Beta, so can’t be put on this list – yet. About bugs in a project that is not even in beta… that’s… no comment. But it’s the only real upcoming competitor to WvW, though WvW could still have it’s own niche: converting PvE players to a fun, team based PvP. More games is better, it’s not like there can be only “One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, One ring to bring them all…”

which is why they regretted releasing pre alpha footage on youtube because people who are apparently ignorant to the concept of pre alpha-alpha-beta where kittenting on the game for looking outdated

we have to thank the AAA games for that

1. Daoc
2. GW2
3. Warhammer

Qiraa.4130:

do dead games count?

bugs, bad class balance and just being an old game ASIDE id say

Warhammer Online > GW2
the RvR system was better imo, you had just in tier 4 a total of 9 maps to fight for and the way it worked was that for each map you captured the closer you got to your enemies homecity so you can sack it and kill their king

I agree, if Mark Jacobs had been given the resources he needed and been allowed to make the game he wanted, WAR would have been the better game.

It’d also still be in development xD

Also gotta give a shout-out to Aion

A would-be great ruined by too much focus on pve/grinding

But less than gw2 as-was

1. Ragnarok Online’s War of Emperium
2. MU Online
3. GW2
4. WoW
5. almost every other are the same

-reason for my top 1 and 2 focuses on real Guild Wars not just their title click bait kitten
-imagine 100 guild fighting each other just to breach you territory of unimaginable resources and Godly items….
-on GW2 the the reset was the most played hours…, on my top 1 every second counts…..
though its not 24/7
-3 and below are so so wars

oboi heres the clip devs so you have an idea what excitement is all about during WvW
kittenin idti0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H00xIsDzMeQ

It’s a bit more democratic than the WvW-type thing I was in in another game several years ago. By democratic I mean, to a certain extent you can still get things done either by roaming or joining a squad or running alongside one.

As for joining a squad itself, most of the time it’s a painless process where one doesn’t have to jump through hoops to please a tyrannical group leader. And in my experience at least, I have seen commanders who were kind enough to mention whether or not their squads were closed or open.

Yes, WvW in this game needs fixing in a lot of areas, but overall, it’s a far better place than the one I came from.

It’s still the best there is for what’s current, but there definitely have been better games than what it is now.

My overall thoughts on the matter are:
1.) Pre-HoT GW2
2.) ROHAN: Blood Feud during 2008/early 2009 (500+ people pvp’ing for literally days straight was amazing)
3.) ESO, BnS Faction Battles, and current GW2
4.) The rest

I think GW2’s flaws in terms of WvW reside almost entirely due to mismanagement. There needs to be more development thought placed in effects of gameplay decisions in PvP/WvW rather than strictly PvE.

In Tera Beta, I had a couple of battles with hundreds of players on each side. We fought at the city gates, on a bridge, in the river under the bridge, up a mountain path and in the courtyard of a mansion. That was all one fight, btw. I will always remember it for how epic it was, though there wasn’t really much point to it.

Unfortunately, that’s not how the game usually plays out. It was a great RvR moment, at least.

Qiraa.4130:

Tiawal.2351:

Straegen.2938:

CU is far too old school for my liking and still fairly buggy in the betas.

There is no CU yet, it’s just a game project in development, currently in Alpha state, close to first Beta, so can’t be put on this list – yet. About bugs in a project that is not even in beta… that’s… no comment. But it’s the only real upcoming competitor to WvW, though WvW could still have it’s own niche: converting PvE players to a fun, team based PvP. More games is better, it’s not like there can be only “One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, One ring to bring them all…”

which is why they regretted releasing pre alpha footage on youtube because people who are apparently ignorant to the concept of pre alpha-alpha-beta where kittenting on the game for looking outdated

we have to thank the AAA games for that

No, we have people that hyped it to the sky to thank for that, lol.

CU has been touted as the GW2 WvW killer on these forums since 2013 or something.

Gw2 is by far the best, the only u can play without being tied to a guild.

Just need a more polishment. WvW, UI is still not atractive, and whoever enters the first time has no idea what is happening.

They could steal some little things from RTS games, when a “swords” spawn, can be a voice exclaiming “we are under atack”.

Dawdler.8521:

Qiraa.4130:

Tiawal.2351:

Straegen.2938:

CU is far too old school for my liking and still fairly buggy in the betas.

There is no CU yet, it’s just a game project in development, currently in Alpha state, close to first Beta, so can’t be put on this list – yet. About bugs in a project that is not even in beta… that’s… no comment. But it’s the only real upcoming competitor to WvW, though WvW could still have it’s own niche: converting PvE players to a fun, team based PvP. More games is better, it’s not like there can be only “One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, One ring to bring them all…”

which is why they regretted releasing pre alpha footage on youtube because people who are apparently ignorant to the concept of pre alpha-alpha-beta where kittenting on the game for looking outdated

we have to thank the AAA games for that

No, we have people that hyped it to the sky to thank for that, lol.

CU has been touted as the GW2 WvW killer on these forums since 2013 or something.

that wasnt my point, what i meant was that a game in alpha and beta stage today typically means the game is about 80% finished which is why players have this unrealistic expectation on game that is in real alpha stage of developement and thus leave dumb comments such as “the game looks bad and is buggy”

btw i havent seen much “gw2 killer” bs when it comes to CU

Gw2 is probably the best WvW out there been playing Mmorpgs since 1999 eq1 i hate pvp in mmorpgs and gw/gw2 is the ONLY game that made me love it
i played ESO and its a great game for SP all voice acting and what not but for Alliance war – WVW- It sucks bad for 1 attack some one and get a 400 ping zerg vs zerg 999 ping
also the maps are WAY to big for the amount of players it has needs at lest 2-3 times more developers also support cheats like animation cancelling and every one is way op with cp points vs new players its a huge mess game would be better if they turned it into a pve zone

My personal Top 5 Current RvR in MMOs, that I’ve recently played, and why.

1.) GW2 – GW2 WvW community makes RvR in GW2 the best. Very accepting community for all types of players. From Causal to the Hardcore WvWers. However WvW is not as supported as some of the other games I have on this list. However for all of GW2’s short comings in this mode. The community as a whole. Makes up for it in spades. This is a clear case of players making a game better then the devs. are willing to put forth the resources an effort.

2.) ESO – Way more player skill involved. The gaps in player skill in that game is soooo large that some players CAN 1v10 or more. And small groups in that game have all the tools to fight a blob. That game is more fight oriented then PvD, forcing players to have to fight each other to make gains.

But it’s community is down right garbage. Players in that game are so Elitists to the point if you are new. You will more then likely not be able to get into any AvA guild nor will most try to teach you the ins and outs, like most of the GW2’s WvW community will. Which will turn off most newer players from ESO unless they already have a group of friend playing.

3.) BnS – It’s RvR is completely P2W, however it’s combat system is very very good. And it has a decent community for the newbies to get into.

4.) Eve Online – Really really good RvX or completely open PvP. However what kills Eve is the devs tried to turn Eve into something it was not meant to be after 12 years. Newbie/Casual friendly CCP completely screwed over most of the Vets/Loyal Supporters for new blood. And ever since Eve has just turned into he who has more numbers win. Because of how casual it is now.

5.) PS2 – Good RvR however very very bad optimizations for a game with sub par graphics. Also a very bad engine. But if you can look past that it has decent RvR.

I imagine Camelot Unchained will have a great RvR experience, but it’s too bad the game looks like garbage.

Valky.2574:

i played ESO and its a great game for SP all voice acting and what not but for Alliance war – WVW- It sucks bad for 1 attack some one and get a 400 ping zerg vs zerg 999 ping
also the maps are WAY to big for the amount of players it has needs at lest 2-3 times more developers also support cheats like animation cancelling and every one is way op with cp points vs new players its a huge mess game would be better if they turned it into a pve zone

They are constantly working on improving the latency issues and indeed they are much better now. I actually get worse skill lag on GW2 when large groups clash.

Animation cancelling is not a cheat and is an accepted part of the combat system.

There is a no CP campaign (which I play on) so everyone is on the same level except for gear but really crafted gear is very good and getting better with the next patch.

Reaper Alim.4176:

But it’s community is down right garbage. Players in that game are so Elitists to the point if you are new. You will more then likely not be able to get into any AvA guild nor will most try to teach you the ins and outs, like most of the GW2’s WvW community will. Which will turn off most newer players from ESO unless they already have a group of friend playing.

I’m in a Daggerfall Covenant guild on the no CP campaign that takes lots of new players and has training for them.

mistsim.2748:

I imagine Camelot Unchained will have a great RvR experience, but it’s too bad the game looks like garbage.

The game is still in alpha… games work on systems first then graphics and ui last. You can start judging how it looks when it gets to open beta.

I haven’t actually played many other RvR games. I haven’t got that far in ESO and I suspect I’ll only play the story there.

There are three I have played to some extent though.

- Aion. Because forts only went vulnerable at specific times of the day, you always had a good contest for them. The actual combat was a hot mess, but I’ve wished GW2 could host GvGs over forts like that for years.

- Planetside 2. I only played for a few weeks before something else got my attention, but that was an interesting system. I have never particularly enjoyed that kind of FPS with the exception of aerial combat, but the territory system was well-implemented and fun to play. It really doesn’t have anything to offer GW2 that isn’t being done already though.

- Mechwarrior 4. This is an odd one, because the game itself didn’t support it, but the player community actually created several galactic map systems where player-run factions would challenge each other for territory. You’d be limited in what assets you could bring to the fight by how many you could produce, so you had to be careful what you put where. Bringing a larger assault force made it easier to win by attrition, but also risked ruining the planet’s industry, and left you open to attack elsewhere. And once you’d committed to a fight, there were no reinforcements – you won with what you had, retreated, or lost the lot.

That was almost a strategy game, played by proxy of a vehicular FPS. It was also by far the best implementation of RvR I’ve played, purely because of its handling of territory.

My personal favourite was Perfect World, although technically not a RvR, with it’s up to 3 hour 60v60 battles (and sometimes 3 fights on 3 maps at once!), Territory Wars.

ESO’s main problem is the map is too big.

ArenaNet can still make this some of most fun, entertaining, and enjoyable RvR looking forward into the future. It’s easy to give up hope. I’ve felt like giving up and have even stated so many times myself. The potential is still there. I would love to rank GW2 far above the rest.

Baldrick.8967:

My personal favourite was Perfect World, although technically not a RvR, with it’s up to 3 hour 60v60 battles (and sometimes 3 fights on 3 maps at once!), Territory Wars.

ESO’s main problem is the map is too big.

You are not supposed to run from spawn to enemies area,
You are supposed to branch outwards and control resources around the walled objectives to keep the way point system alive.

In gw2 to block a keeps wp a lvl 2 can throw a rock at the guards and contest it.

SWG with open world pvp.

I don’t understand the people who say DAoC was better. GW2 WvW is an improvement in pretty much every way. And I played almost exclusively RvR in DAoC for years.

But I guess its nice to reminisce about Minute-Long AoE CC followed by 3 people PBAoEing your whole group.

Or how about how realm rank actually gave you an advantage in fights – you know, powerful abilities and more stats. Yeah, thats super fair. Please be realistic.

I have only really played 3 recently. So I will rank them on my personal like and experience.

1. Gw2
2. ESO
3. WoW

Baldrick.8967:

My personal favourite was Perfect World, although technically not a RvR, with it’s up to 3 hour 60v60 battles (and sometimes 3 fights on 3 maps at once!), Territory Wars.

Sweet kitten you just had to go and mention the biggest PAY TO WIN MMO in the history of MMOs. You actually had people there dropping in excess of 10k US dollars to get the best in gear… available only in the cash shop of of course.

Like it or not, GW2 is the best WvW/RvR game out there at the moment. Sadly this lack of competition is probably why Anet spends way more time & resources into PvE than WvW & sPvP. To not have this game mode represent in a brand new expansion launch is really sad. But they’re able to get away with it because of the lack of competition.

For games available right now, the rank is simply:

1. GW2
2. ESO

If you count BDO, it would rank up there if it wasn’t for all the desync & lag issues that plague the game. BDO is the superior action combat game, they even cater to Guild vs Guild, something Anet avoided even though GW2 used to have a very large GvG scene. But the grind & gear based endgame makes it the polar opposite of GW2.

GW2 is the only true WvW atm. If you guys liked ESO so much more, you’d be playing it instead of posting here.

Jayne.9251:

GW2 is the only true WvW atm. If you guys liked ESO so much more, you’d be playing it instead of posting here.

I’ve been playing guild wars for like 12 years.
I’d be playing eso if I had as much time already invested. Periodically I do play eso RvR for its environment. My magplar is veteran 30 or something, not very high.

Jayne.9251:

GW2 is the only true WvW atm. If you guys liked ESO so much more, you’d be playing it instead of posting here.

Um so why aren’t you playing GW2 WvW instead of posting here?

in terms of game evolution and inovation gw2 would be in last place… it has nothing that other games havent in a way or another, in some GW2 is the worst…

Pve.. dull aoe spam gameplay/ dps race.
pvp… broken since classes are design to aoe spam
wvw… useless game mode
guild-.. chat rooms with grind(congrats ANet how u have managed to kill the concept of guilds in this game… very inovative achievement)
WvW server system-… how much borked it gets theres no alternatives to change how it works…
Bad grind design, its not funny, some more grindy games canmake the grind more funny/atractive.

its a kewl graphics game for bad online gammers (skirts)that need help achieving something…

Since i play ANet game since 2004, and decidedto be ported with the guild to gw2, i stayed time invested, made me try another games but every mmo has huge problems as well its like none is trying really to make a decent mmo, just want to sell it to kids…this is how gamming feel nowadays….

Well good mmo is sum of many parts. Doesn’t really mater how good RvR is if animations, movement and combat is kitten. Like eso. I couldn’t play that game more than couple hours in beta because it was ugly, dark and depressing. Animations were horrible, characters backs were hunched whole time and jumping was total kitten. I think that i won’t like that camelot unchained either. Can’t play any small budget full loot games either because those always feel horrible.

trailofsalt.6571:

ArenaNet can still make this some of most fun, entertaining, and enjoyable RvR looking forward into the future. It’s easy to give up hope. I’ve felt like giving up and have even stated so many times myself. The potential is still there. I would love to rank GW2 far above the rest.

This is what I was wondering and why I asked this question. Wasn’t sure, but it seems GW2 could still be in the running as one of the best RvR games. ANet spent the past year getting a bunch of needed systems into WvW which was a good call, but now that’s all done, it will be interesting to see how they evolve it.

Adding gliding and territories was an innovative first step, but also kind of obvious to build on systems already in other parts of the game. I hope they’ll now take the opportunity to survey the loyal WvW veteran player base like they did a year ago and collectively figure out the next steps in evolving it.

Turk.5460:

Aeolus.3615:

in terms of game evolution and inovation gw2 would be in last place… it has nothing that other games havent in a way or another, in some GW2 is the worst…

Yet its somehow better than everything else you’ve tried? But its the worst. But you’re still playing. But don’t forget, guys! It’s in last place! I just like playing last place games because I hate myself, right? Right!?

be carefull there, last time I have written a post on this forum it was removed for being unpolite to others [yeaaaaah]

as for ranking… well I don’t think I have played any other game with implemented sort of “real vs realm” thing

the closest one I could comapre to would be EvE online but EvE was actually build around that concept in it’s core – not like in here had is developped as one of “not-really necessary” options

What you nerds know about War of Emperium?

Ben K.6238:

- Aion. Because forts only went vulnerable at specific times of the day, you always had a good contest for them. The actual combat was a hot mess, but I’ve wished GW2 could host GvGs over forts like that for years.

That is not at all how Aion was for me. I played about one year after launch and every other month one side would take turns having burn out and not show up.

ragnarok best game ever all game should learn from it <3

Taobella.6597:

ragnarok best game ever all game should learn from it <3

those massive 2k+ castle sieges even with the lag…. was fun xD

Actually i think Anet had or has a old Gravity worker :\ if im not in mistake…….i just hope its not the guy that wrecked RO with the class balance and new classes that killed the game.

Every game should learn form the good things and bad thing, but has history tend to reapeat itself, sadly only the mistakes part…

Game developing on the mmo side, nowadays are more towards look and carry players than make a decent and skilled game.

When much older games provide better skilled gameplay(on its own way) than the new kids shinny aoe spam game…. lol.

morrolan.9608:

Reaper Alim.4176:

But it’s community is down right garbage. Players in that game are so Elitists to the point if you are new. You will more then likely not be able to get into any AvA guild nor will most try to teach you the ins and outs, like most of the GW2’s WvW community will. Which will turn off most newer players from ESO unless they already have a group of friend playing.

I’m in a Daggerfall Covenant guild on the no CP campaign that takes lots of new players and has training for them.

As you can see here

https://youtu.be/VbmQ3TAlSWY

I’m not a jaded new player to ESO. Also I’ve invested loads of time and money. Also I have no DC characters.

lol

so no one else knew what RvR really is and not played enough mmo to know whats the best

the sad part for most these players is that War of Emperium is no longer available today even if there are private servers….. you wouldn’t feel the same feeling as before… and thats the good part on Anet and other mmo companies, they can brag that they have the best graphics , massive player base of 12 yr old children , latest lag free engine …
but they all fail to dethrone RO in its infamous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Gameplay be it in PVE PVP or what you call WvW

i still consider RO as the king of mmos as of today, this speech made it epic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lhfvO9oktw