Guild Wars 2

i would remove condition duration all together. an change it to condition crit dmg

then i flat nerf condition damage by 25% across the board.

this would cause player who want to play high end True damage builds to run yolo gear vs these dumb bunker builds.

power build = power, vit, toughness, crit rate, crit dmg

con build = con, vit, toughness, crit rate, crit con dmg

This would balance out the stat tree for picking either root.

Any fix to condi needs to address zerg, skirmish and solo play. IMO this can only be done when condi cleanses are removed and some stat reduces its damage in some way.

Your change does not address its relative uselessness in zergs.

issue are not condis itself, its the stacks of every cleave/aoe damage being in condi or phisical damage.
And high damage skills on low CD, game is way to much spammable friendly, not much skill is needed to skill management.

issue overall is the spam, not condis alone.

its not con that problem it the way gear line up for con every con build is ultra bunker there no down side to roll it way i suggest fixing it is if you want to be a strong con build you need to be glass cannon.

This would just make conditons play out like power. They should not work the same way. The solution would make the condition build still useless in zergs compared to power and would make power more useful then conditions in small scale fights.

Added to that there a whole pile of conditions that only become effective as durations increased. These the cripples the immobs the slows and chills. There far too many items and or traits that work to these durations in particular.

Why would a person as example want a crit on a non damaging Immob? If I want to invest in durations of condition to get that immob or chill lasting longer then I am making sacrifices and that duration makes what was a marginal skill a useful one.

A 2 second immob is exponentially more useful then a 1 second immob and to get from 1 second base to 2 second base means you need 100 percent duration add and sacrifice accordingly.

- Get rid of Dire/TB.
- Rework some kits to provide less breadth of conditions/condition overloading which prevent well-balanced builds from keeping up to a reasonable degree without resistance or spammable mass-cleanses (hint: that’s only a few builds).
- Increase condition potency of builds stacking fewer conditions to maintain or even increase their damage potential on targets which do not cleanse but also increasing the value of using cleanses properly.
- Add more cleansing options to more builds; half the problem is conditions are countered more/less based on trait selection.
- Nerf resistance uptime/durations and all boon access in general.
- Reduce the amount of CC (hard and soft)
- Reduce the amount of spammable condition access occurring during defensive moves (burn on block for guard, thief damaging during evasion, massive damage from berserker during EP/DP, chronos applying conditions during stealth, etc. and move this to active play options via improved weapon skills.

i viewing it more as Power stomp con > con stomp bunker > bunker stomp power

you return to normal order of WvW

Remove auto attack condis, limit skills applying 5+ condis to 3.

Well what about duration effect its not like you cant make power dmg last longer. Yes you can have blut +% to power dmg but you can also have blut +% to condi dmg ontop of condi builds having the added effect of being able to hide there dmg with other soft cc and armor having no effect on thoughts condi with vary few skills / effects that drops condi dmg. Also the stealth thing with condi dmg appicaison that have no power dmg.

There ALOT that makes condi stronger then power dmg.

What they need to do is take off all Toughness from main condi dmg sets of armor runes and food making condi the true glass armor type.

How to fix condition: Start using kitten warriors!
Whenever I play WvW I don’t see more than 2-3 warriors in our Zerg and usually they are Berzerker specced which is completely useless.
Seriously, Warrior+Trooper Rune = aoe condi cleanse every 12,16, 20, 20 seconds, aoe swiftness, aoe weakness, banners and with 32k HP and almost 4k armor they push through anything that’s on the ground…not to mention HAMMERKITTENSTUN!

Back in the days warriors used trooper rune, guards used trooper rune…of ourse you are weak af to condis if all of that is gone. But it’s not because condis became OP but because you refuse to readapt to a different situation. Pirateship was yesterday. Change your build if you have problems with conditions. But god beware the idea of playing a core spec since hot did everything better…obviously not in that regard.

Entenkommando.5208:

How to fix condition: Start using kitten warriors!
Whenever I play WvW I don’t see more than 2-3 warriors in our Zerg and usually they are Berzerker specced which is completely useless.
Seriously, Warrior+Trooper Rune = aoe condi cleanse every 12,16, 20, 20 seconds, aoe swiftness, aoe weakness, banners and with 32k HP and almost 4k armor they push through anything that’s on the ground…not to mention HAMMERKITTENSTUN!

Back in the days warriors used trooper rune, guards used trooper rune…of ourse you are weak af to condis if all of that is gone. But it’s not because condis became OP but because you refuse to readapt to a different situation. Pirateship was yesterday. Change your build if you have problems with conditions. But god beware the idea of playing a core spec since hot did everything better…obviously not in that regard.

It was buged back then it use to clear more condis.

I am starting to think rev the class is the problem with GW2 balancing not because the class it self is strong but the effects that class can give to others comply has upset the balances between power dmg and condi dmg.

Straegen.2938 is a dumfuk numptie to even think such things as remove condi clears cause condi damage is over powered. Not all conditions deal damage, but avoid/increase damage, cause problems while not dealing damage.
So lets say we have no cleans….. oh im crippled for 1min, chilled for one min, blinded when i need to burst have vun on me… etc etc…

giving condi a crit hit damage mod effected by crit chance is an amazing idea @ Taobella.6597. Bringing down condition damage on some real dangerous condis that stack, per stack is also a great idea or even just per stack of damage condi condition damage per that type is reduced by xx% amount, w/e. But even these things cause problems in other areas………

lets take big PvE or WvW situations where servers have, due to these changes, more calculations to do – More, worse, quicker skill lag cause servers are enduring calculations.

However i do think we should have excess to a stat that reduces condition duration applied to the user. We have always had food/runes that +/-% condition duration and then we was giving a new stats, one of them gave +% Condition Duration but we did not get a -% condition duration stat. I think keeping with the thoughts of the original build of game and giving a counter part to the +% duration armor set would be a good way to go.

Deemo.6094:

However i do think we should have excess to a stat that reduces condition duration applied to the user. We have always had food/runes that +/-% condition duration and then we was giving a new stats, one of them gave +% Condition Duration but we did not get a -% condition duration stat. I think keeping with the thoughts of the original build of game and giving a counter part to the +% duration armor set would be a good way to go.

Duration -% is not as powerful as blunt dmg -% so armor for power dmg is a blunt dmg -% where duration is more of a max -% dmg for condi. Its like blind vs a power dmg attk.

Think of it like this there 2 types of dmg power (power crit dmg and crit chase) all that is countered by vit armor and healing power and condi dmg (condi dmg and condi duration) counter by vit and healing power (unless they add in condi duration -% to gear much like boon duration and +% condi duration its not a viable counter). Power needs more effects to be effective and there are more means of reducing it. Condi is the best dmg type in GW2 in both combo effective and lack of a full counter.

you havnt played gw2 for 4years have u. my guess is not much longer than2 if 2.

Deemo.6094:

you havnt played gw2 for 4years have u. my guess is not much longer than2 if 2.

So a lot of what condi is coming from is the ticks that get in befor you can reacte with a clear. Humans have a reaction time to hit there keys and even longer of a time for that key to tell the game your using this skill. Often letting 2- 3 ticks to go off. It gets worst when you add in effects like lag or simply being overwhelmed by effects on the screen. There there the in game effects of slow, stun, daze and cover condi (you cant chose what condis your cleaning at all). All of witch added up to duration of the condi stronger even if you have -% duration (unless you have the -100% something only a few clases can pull off vs a very set amounts of condi effects) because its only the few ticks that will end up killing you well befor that super long duration of one type of condi (reason why eles are the worst condi class in the game because the only have 2 types and cant super charges them like gurds can).
Condi is a burst type of effect not a long turn effect much like power dmg is but with out all the hard counters.

Also you can see ppl post and how long ago they posted them.

Which is in essence the big problem. As it stands, conditions offer huge burst damage potential with relative ease of application/reliability and much more difficult-to-achieve counters than power damage in most cases.

More weapon skills and professions need to consolidate the number of conditions which can be applied at a given time, similarly to how the guardian works in that it only DoT’s on burning. Professions shouldn’t be slinging four of five different types of conditions per second (like how the thief and mesmer can) while running durable stats, high stack-counts of DoT effects, and solid control via covers like Weakness and Blind.

I think if anything is ever done to balance conditions it should be something simple, like capping duration to +50% and/or only a maximum of 5 stacks per condition against player characters.

Clownmug.8357:

I think if anything is ever done to balance conditions it should be something simple, like capping duration to +50% and/or only a maximum of 5 stacks per condition against player characters.

Frankly I don’t think Expertise should have been added; I think conditions as a whole should have had their durations re-addressed instead.

They wouldn’t really need to worry about stack capping if the professions just had less breadth available to them. Cutting down the mass breadth of application would allow one three-condi cleanse to nullify the immediate application of two people ganking or something, just like how an invuln or block negates the subsequent actual killing hits a power build would hinge on after the first assault.

This also lets single-condition cleanses have appropriate strength in duels, allows for revision of group/mass cleanses, and makes conditions in general scale better in both smaller and larger groups as a consequence.

Granted, I don’t ever see this happening because the whining would be immense.

This just a bad idea all around.

If I want a longer weakness i should have to trait for it. You should not get it just for free and I am sorry but contrary to decievers suggestion if a condition build was forced out of dire or TB into a lighter armor, all it would mean is it will die even faster to a pistol unload, a backstab or a vault.

This is just a whole lot of people wanting power builds to be even easier to play.

It is a heck of a lot easier to cleanse conditions then it is to deal with 10k of damage already dealt and my thief coming out of hiding for a p/p unload followed by a bound is not going to give a hell of a lot of chances for a condition build to get conditions on me before they are dead. And if that p/p from out of hiding could load weakness and vuln via crit that lasts just as long as some person using a condition build why would any person ever play conditions? (And this is exactly what no durations will do . It will make power builds even more powerful when compared to condition builds because all conditions would tick just as long)

As to there being an issue with AA’s loading a condition , why is that a problem? On a d/p thief I can get 8k plus out of my AA chain when I am out of INI. Why should condition apps that do a fraction of that damage per app be restricted to any weapon skill outside the AA? If you are swapping AA attacks with a power build up close and personal a Condition build is going to lose.

The issues with conditions is very specific builds and there just too many with an inherent bias towards conditions who want to shoehorn the diversity of builds to being power builds and little more.

The thing is, weakness is a very strong effect and most of the control conditions were designed to never be under the effect of duration increases of this magnitude. It’s why there aren’t runes and sigils to extend durations and the likes. Weakness is a 50% power damage cut and a huge evasion cut. Allowing for that to just be permanent while having huge condition burst and breadth does the exact opposite of what is intended for conditions to do; if permanent weakness was to be an innate part of the kit and designed in such a way to make it rather difficult to maintain (like on S/x thief), then things end up a lot better. That’s what I mean by a re-addressing of durations; in most cases, things could have just been buffed and we wouldn’t need to deal with the difference of conditions when being modified by massive duration boosts versus a lack of them. Consolidating them would also prevent power builds from having much access to begin with as to provide condition builds with distinct advantages. The tick time is really insignificant if people are cleansing so much as you claim they are, anyways, and a power build will have very low tick damage. If conditions as a whole played more like burn DH, I don’t see how there’s an inherent problem. There’s a lot of application of one condition and the tools (if not excessive at the moment) to keep them going out and staying alive. A build running multiple small cleanses (to sustain against a DoT build as it should be) should have a better chance just as how someone having a shield and huge damage reduction effects stacked up tries to sustain against power.

I’d go as far to say that Unload is a relatively poor example to use; it’s the hardest-hitting ability on the potentially hardest-hitting class in the game, and you assume the full channel is landing every time despite the obvious choreography. As for conditions on AA, I personally don’t have a problem with it – but comparing it to dagger and staff AA is a problem – again, these are the two hands-down best AA chains in the game. I don’t know of a single person with a reasonable head on their shoulders who thinks the AA buff to thief has been a good idea in general.

The problem with the problematic builds right now is the builds push out conditions too quickly and push out too many conditions while also being heavily defensively-oriented as DoT builds in GW2 are supposed to. In a lot of cases, there aren’t enough cleanses in the game except on a few select builds to deal with the raw applicability of conditions as they are, and with dire/tb stats and defensive kits, power builds can’t crank out enough damage to get the kill before they would also down/die, because the stats on dire and TB are full-tank.

As far as being “up close and personal” that’s entirely a build/profession thing with very heavy bias towards the thief on P/D. I do encourage you to try and get “up close and personal” with a macebow berserker, condi bomb shroud reaper, melee trapper condi ranger, burn guard, condi DH, P/P blowtorch engi, M/A condi rev, … the list just keeps going. Most of these builds actually favor power matchups because they have massive power damage negation and run limited cleansing themselves.

One of the problems the community of condition players doesn’t really seem to be able to come to terms with is the simple fact that the underlying principles for condition damage in GW2 are not designed around burst or even massive sustained damage/DPS like DoT-stacking is in most games. It’s meant to offer a style of play which chips away at the opponent, keeps them in combat, and has synergy with control and defense-oriented builds. That’s mechanically why the DoT here ignores armor, and why power builds as intended are supposed to deal more damage and have three stats for offense instead of one/two. If people can’t come to terms with that, there’s no helping them. They’d have to strike up a conversation with the developers themselves and convince them to change the foundation of how DoT and condition damage in their game works. As it is the entire dynamic is broken and can’t support many different types of changes.

Taobella.6597:

i viewing it more as Power stomp con > con stomp bunker > bunker stomp power

you return to normal order of WvW

not really true most power builds can easilly destroy a bunker guard, due how easy is to make damage in this game and bunker guard surviability is minimal and its damage its minimal.
Overall every damage output build will outperform defensive support/builds.

Jski.6180:

So a lot of what condi is coming from is the ticks that get in befor you can reacte with a clear. Humans have a reaction time to hit there keys and even longer of a time for that key to tell the game your using this skill.

I think a lot of people, in the heat of battle, see that all of a sudden they have 4 condi’s on them and then they PANIC and expend a cleanse. Some of those condi’s may only be doing trivial damage.

I know that when I’m running a condi build, I try and spam the opposition with junk condi FIRST in hopes that they will panic and use a cleanse – and then I hit them a second time with the big stuff.

It’s been ages since anyone died from “burst” condi damage – I’m thinking back to when Perplexity Runes were way op, but that was, what, 3 years ago?

To be honest I do not mind conditions being useless at all. When condis were useless WvW WAS A LOT MORE FUN LIKE A LOT MORE FUN.

IMO the biggest issue with condi is the cap increase. Drop back to 25/30 in WvW would solve a few issues on them.

I don’t think conditions account for much in the wider scheme of things in WvW so a condition damage nerf is quite unlikely.

If condis dont get nerf then WvW can never be fun again fight wise

its not that con itself are bad or even con duration is bad. it the fact every build related to running con is as bunker as a bunker. that reason there so effective.

you should not be able to achieve number of glass cannon have HP and tankness of a bunker.

https://youtu.be/8hZIb74CmMA
^^^^^ If I can get that meta with HoT classes game would be hella more fun to play and would be worth my time.

Soon.5240:

Jski.6180:

So a lot of what condi is coming from is the ticks that get in befor you can reacte with a clear. Humans have a reaction time to hit there keys and even longer of a time for that key to tell the game your using this skill.

I think a lot of people, in the heat of battle, see that all of a sudden they have 4 condi’s on them and then they PANIC and expend a cleanse. Some of those condi’s may only be doing trivial damage.

I know that when I’m running a condi build, I try and spam the opposition with junk condi FIRST in hopes that they will panic and use a cleanse – and then I hit them a second time with the big stuff.

It’s been ages since anyone died from “burst” condi damage – I’m thinking back to when Perplexity Runes were way op, but that was, what, 3 years ago?

I guess but its not the confusion that killing you its the “new” 5 stack of burning that killing you so.. things are no where near the same as 3 years ago.

Power dmg is very weak in the game and condi dmg is too easy to land killing level dmg before the full duration. It MUST be fixed or the game going to stagger more and more into pure condi meta pushing min condi dmg classes and builds out of the game altogether. Over all making GW2 into a very boring game that has less to do with skill and more to do with your gear level.

CrimeMaker.8612:

If condis dont get nerf then WvW can never be fun again fight wise

I think that WvW players low skill level is biggest problem why fight aren’t fun.

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

If condis dont get nerf then WvW can never be fun again fight wise

I think that WvW players low skill level is biggest problem why fight aren’t fun.

That may be true. Issue is in WvW, low skill is strongly encouraged. Think of omniblobs running all around and opening doors by smashing their heads on them, or think of meta cheese build that work on their own. WvW is a game mode for casual players.

It’s hard to tell it’s wrong. Suppose you could run several effective builds on one profession : one needs you to check timing, proper script, strategic skill placement for max effectiveness. The other needs you to just use all your skill bar more or less at once, and wait for your enemy to die. Which one would you pick if you want to survive ?

Now, players also need to learn and it takes time. If WvW core players were only running high skill high damage builds (supposing that exists of course), any new player would get ganked because of lack of skill with effective builds, and may eventually get disgusted.

Unless of course there’s kind of a ladder for WvW with low tiers running the same cheese builds and running blobs, and higher tiers miraculously running something else because diversity is better, and interesting fights. Is it actually credible ?

As long as there’ll be a build labeled “less effort, best rewards”, then that’s the one you’ll see everywhere. Just like you see k-trains everywhere.

Weakness could have a blunt condi dmg -% out put where on power dmg its only a % chase to trigger. Its not the best trick to dealing with condi dmg builds but it would help. (I also think there needs to be a -% boon duration effect in the game as well as a -% condi duration debuff.)