Guild Wars 2

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

Terrahero.9358:

Immolator.5640:

Destroying Guardian’s ranged effectiveness – try catching a Thief spamming ranged at you, espec. Unload, without any good retal. On top of that if you get 2 thieves doing the same thing, you’re doubly screwed. If you haven’t noticed, we aren’t really fast and our ‘ranged’ weapons can’t hit for the world, the only one which can has just over greatsword range and does ~200dmg per hit maybe. Rapid-fire ranged attacks in general do need to have some counter from Guardians, else you can just completely destroy them with anything @ 900 range. Try to find a solution that doesn’t shaft guardians plz.

You said it would cause more problems then it fixed, all you come up with was “my guardian will get destroyed by 2 Thieves who happen to be using pistols”. Join the club of Everybody.
And just how would Retal stop them anyway when they just switch to their S/D and steal it anyway…
Guardians have more means to deal with ranged then most professions anyway.

Bro, I gave an example; in reality anyone ranged would destroy a Guardian without retal or with an ICD on it; you seem to have looked into what I have said very thoroughly, as you definitely summed up what I said there /sarcasm.

Anyways, I want Guardian to not be broken by anyone with a bow/staff and mastery of the arrow keys, that’s the problem I see here.

My solution would be ‘Cannot take Retal Dmg from >2 sources at any given point’ thereby fixing AoE and not shafting the poor Guardian that can’t deal with the upscale spamming Water 1 Staff at them.

LetoII.3782:

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

Yes, the correct answer to Retaliation is to not attack a zerg with it! We agree!

LetoII.3782:

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

Six pages because there’s something terribly wrong if a long range damage dealer who has good positioning KILLS HERSELF THROUGH RETAL after firing a single barrage into an enemy zerg. Yes, please tell me more about how it’s my fault and retal isn’t a broken mechanic because I fired a group of arrows into a group of enemies – god forbid, right? Where the hell else would someone fire a barrage into? Certainly shouldn’t be into a group of enemies, no sir! I must be one dumb cookie, forgive me for such a foolish notion.

LetoII.3782:

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

Why would someone take damage from people that are not doing anything except having a boon on them? Any logic there?

Lyndis.2584:

LetoII.3782:

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

Six pages because there’s something terribly wrong if a long range damage dealer who has good positioning KILLS HERSELF THROUGH RETAL after firing a single barrage into an enemy zerg. Yes, please tell me more about how it’s my fault and retal isn’t a broken mechanic because I fired a group of arrows into a group of enemies – god forbid, right? Where the hell else would someone fire a barrage into? Certainly shouldn’t be into a group of enemies, no sir! I must be one dumb cookie, forgive me for such a foolish notion.

Didn’t you read the memo? AoE is used for 1v1 fights because it’s plain better than single target, and single target skills are used against zergs because retaliation would kill or maim AoE users.

GW2 logic at work.

Rich.1528:

Sandra Martino.3870:

Its true though, in wvw zergs i usually pop SYG (ima guardian) and wirldwind away in a zerg. Critting for 4-8k on lots of targets, dealing 80k+ damage with 1 button, killing myself in the process IF retaliation is up on the enemies lol.

Im usualy forced to abort wirling wrath before it ends :/

If you use gs – increase your hp pool, it help’s sometimes.

I run hybrid bunker guardian with 22k hp and 3.1k armor. Coupled with that i got 3.3k attack, 60% crit and 70% crit damage in zergs, i kill myself with a single WW.

I just don’t get how taking back more damage than you deal (for example, multi-hit attacks versus toughness/power stacking) is balanced.

LetoII.3782:

Six pages because a glass ranger wants to stand a mile away from the fight spamming damage and resents having to stop for a moment to cast water field under it’s own feet?

This. Retal is fine.

It’s not common knowledge, but I advise you look through your keybindings. The draw/sheath weapon binding is one of the most useful things in this situation, as well as when you gain confusion. I have it bound to shift, and when you sheath your weapon it cancels any cast you’re currently executing, reducing any retal damage you’re taking to 0.

If you’re still looking to damage a 100% retal guardian, conditions are the best thing to use, and since you’re a ranger you have the extra advantage of having a pet who can tank the retal damage while still attacking the guardian.

Immolator.5640:

Bro, I gave an example; in reality anyone ranged would destroy a Guardian without retal or with an ICD on it; you seem to have looked into what I have said very thoroughly, as you definitely summed up what I said there /sarcasm.

Anyways, I want Guardian to not be broken by anyone with a bow/staff and mastery of the arrow keys, that’s the problem I see here.

My solution would be ‘Cannot take Retal Dmg from >2 sources at any given point’ thereby fixing AoE and not shafting the poor Guardian that can’t deal with the upscale spamming Water 1 Staff at them.

And who says Guardians wont have Retaliation anymore?

This amount of drama is getting absurd.

“We should put an ICD on Retal so it doesnt utterly break fast-hitting and AoE attacks in WvW, and buff its damage to offset a more stable damage output against both fast and slow attacks”
“ZOMFG U ARE TTRYING TO DELETE RETAL, MAH GURDIUN IS USSLESS WITHOUT RETAL!”

Get a grip man, seriously, this is just silly. You’re screaming bloody murder as if everyone here wants to nerf Retal into the ground or even remove it from the game. People suggest things to stop Retal from returning insane amounts of damage from AoE attacks. Or applying a ton of procs from multi-hit attacks.

If Retal had a 1sec ICD it wouldnt make a lick of different against almost all ranged. The only ones that might have an easier time are p/d Thieves with their pistol 1 from stealth. But they steal your Retaliation anyway the moment you put it up.

If getting a couple less Retal procs from an attack like Rapid Fire and Volley is what causes you to suddenly get “crushed” by all ranged (who knows how that logic suddenly works…) then you need to seriously reconsider your build, because you’re walking a very, very fine line as it is.

And lol at the “upscaled water elementalist with staff” comment. This is taking exegeration to a whole new level, bravo.

As a toughness to the max necro, I dont really seeing the point of pvp at the moment, 16k retal damage in either wvw or spvp when i drop my wells, i mean really?

I get some hits like 5k from thieves etc, but this is a passive… i mean.. really?

Necro has no buffs at all except the 3 second retal and retal on heals, wich doesn’t work properly btw.

So how in the world an i to counter anything as a necro now?
lifedrain? lol
Increasing my hp pool even more?

basicly as a necro, it’s insta GIB with no counters or cancellation of skills when in full swing with wells and anyone with retal walks into my fields.

Remember curses that you could deactivate? or any of the necro skills that were usefull against melee and buffs?

yeah i remember those too..

Retal is a reason to not zerg.
Thieves are a reason to not roam.

simple solution is stop playing like i did.

Sandra Martino.3870:

Rich.1528:

Sandra Martino.3870:

Its true though, in wvw zergs i usually pop SYG (ima guardian) and wirldwind away in a zerg. Critting for 4-8k on lots of targets, dealing 80k+ damage with 1 button, killing myself in the process IF retaliation is up on the enemies lol.

Im usualy forced to abort wirling wrath before it ends :/

If you use gs – increase your hp pool, it help’s sometimes.

I run hybrid bunker guardian with 22k hp and 3.1k armor. Coupled with that i got 3.3k attack, 60% crit and 70% crit damage in zergs, i kill myself with a single WW.

Would you mind to share with us how on earth youre able to get such stats?
Or are you just trolling?

Kontrolle.3514:

Retal is a reason to not zerg.
Thieves are a reason to not roam.

simple solution is stop playing like i did.

or just, you know… get good :p

Kontrolle.3514:

Sandra Martino.3870:

Rich.1528:

Sandra Martino.3870:

Its true though, in wvw zergs i usually pop SYG (ima guardian) and wirldwind away in a zerg. Critting for 4-8k on lots of targets, dealing 80k+ damage with 1 button, killing myself in the process IF retaliation is up on the enemies lol.

Im usualy forced to abort wirling wrath before it ends :/

If you use gs – increase your hp pool, it help’s sometimes.

I run hybrid bunker guardian with 22k hp and 3.1k armor. Coupled with that i got 3.3k attack, 60% crit and 70% crit damage in zergs, i kill myself with a single WW.

Would you mind to share with us how on earth youre able to get such stats?
Or are you just trolling?

No its fully buffed with food etc when running with my zerg group, i use pvt gear with ascended zerk jewelry (i think only my back is pvt atm).

Use a necromancer mostly in WvW and also an engineer sometimes. For the engineer, retaliation is a pretty big deal when using grenades. 15 ticks of retaliation per attack, it hurts bad Often times while defending a keep I have to resort to using Elixir U to burst damage then run back to heal away the retaliation damage.

For the engineer it is fair though, mostly because the engineer is one of the best retaliation users in the game themselves. Elixir B can give a fairly long duration retaliation, and if they use the elixir gun they can throw a bunch of blast finishers into the light field (and encourage everyone else to do the same), giving a bunch of people long term retaliation. The light field lasts 10 seconds, so there’s no hurry.

Also, you have to think about what happens when they don’t have retaliation. When I run up to that wall with 20 stacks of might, haste, and a full grenade spec, kitten gets real, and real quick. That burst of damage and disabling conditions right on top of their siegers, killing the 3 players on the siege, then continually strafing while raining down long distance grenades with highly damaging conditions on
everyone while maintaining 20+ stacks of might while hiding behind a wall of reflect and using my own retaliation… its almost not fair. It gets worse when there’s two or more of us, so much so that a handful of grenadiers can successfully hold off any 20 man zerg dumb enough to not use catapults or retaliation. The hilarious thing about this is that the best tool to fight off the grenade raining HGH engineer is blast finisher support engineer.

Retaliation is an effective defense tactic for zergs, but the key word here is tactic. To have retaliation be meaningful to a zerg, you have to get several players who stack retaliation in an AoE and be dedicated to doing so while assaulting a keep. It is one of the few effective counters to arrow cart spam, as well as some of the more dangerous “defend the keep” builds like HGH engineers. Ultimately, if a group of enemies is so big and concentrated that you take 5k worth of retaliation damage on attack, then you need more people; You will not take that zerg by yourself.

I deal retaliation like any other damage. I use heal skill.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Retaliation is an effective defense tactic for zergs, but the key word here is tactic.

I have another tactic with dealing with AoE damage: It’s called not mindlessly standing in it.

As for the Engineers build you listed in particular, there is already play and counter-play. You can throw up Walls of Reflection or Shield of Absorption for example; there is counter-play because then the Engineer has to shoot around the wall, or be forced to use non-projectile attacks to kill the Shield of Absorption. Play & Counter-play is the game design theory that an ability adds something to enrich combat for both the player using it and to whom it is used against. Grenades aren’t even a fast projectile; they are easy to avoid as long as you’re paying attention.

As for large-scale Retaliation? The only way to reliably “deal” is to simply “not”; even the people defending it are saying, “Are you bad? Just stop attacking!” This is not enriching the game, but simply punishing people for using certain builds.

If personal attacks and grammer mistakes is your best come-back argument, and ofcourse invoking Godwin’s Law. Then i was right not to take you serious.

Go advocate your broken mechanic somewhere else, i’m sure more people would love to hear it.

xiv.7136:

Krypto.2069:

xiv.7136:

It’s kind of funny how people don’t seem to understand how broken retaliation is right now in wvw (in the maps where it hasn’ t been nerfed yet)

Simply put, if you haven’t noticed what a ridiculous amount of damage retal does, it’s because you’re not really contributing to the fight.

You’re probably doing l33t single target dps against that one guy in the 40 vs 40 fight. Then yeah, you won’t notice retal.

Actually, XIV, far from it. I’m a ranger – almost 23K HP, 1546 Toughness, 2610 Armor, and use Longbow and GS primarily. I use barrage as much as possilbe, AOEing in zergs regularly with it. I average 45 – 60 kills per hour. (I believe that’s pretty decent. Lvl 78 Major with 23,328 WvW kills atm that I’ve contributed to.) And I play on EB and the BLs.

I use healing spring, signet of stone and food to deal with damage. And, no, retaliation is not a big deal for me.

A guardian is a pin cushion just like anybody else – in a zerg or otherwise! ;-)

Moonlight Wish – GoM

Well done on your pro dolyak kills

You don’t understand how the game works

I’ll let the cat out of the bag for the hell of it

ball up, 25 stacks of might, light fields, blast finishers

it’s pretty much broken OP, and there’s no counter to it

Mesmer null field -> 25 stacks + reta gone, wait what?? Theres a counter? Impossible !

I’m playing a GS / Staff Guardian 3,2k armor 15k hp 0 / 0 / 30 / 15 / 25

reta is fine for me

Just have to use whirling wraths carefuly

Babayum.9204:

Just have to use whirling wraths carefuly

Or else.

Nokaru.7831:

Babayum.9204:

Just have to use whirling wraths carefuly

Or else.

That`s exactly what i get when i push my button… balanced my kitten.

Terrahero.9358:

Dont even start with “fair”. Retaliation isnt a Guardian exclusive, and they have a ton more tools. What happend to compensation for Mesmers and Engineers when Confusion was completely gutted?

I am happy for mesmer and engie to be compensated in some way for the confusion nerf