How many players per borderland?
Somewere between 80-100/side is my guess.
Thats the million dollar question.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
ANet never gives out exact numbers, the best you will ever get is an approximation.
My guess is somewhere around 80 after they reduced the limit with 10% in easter.
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”
Borderlands is around 80-85. EBG is lower than that though.
If they gave out an exact number, teams would use that information to game the system.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
If they gave out an exact number, teams would use that information to game the system.
What, you mean like whispering to the other server that they have exactly 80 people on the border because there is a 50 man queue?
Yeah that will surely give the enemy server an advantage, knowing there are actually players on the border.
I’m almost certain that the sides have uneven caps. It seems we’ve often had enemies with mahoosive blobs while we’ve hit the cap with nigh-on two-thirds as many.
I’m almost certain that the sides have uneven caps. It seems we’ve often had enemies with mahoosive blobs while we’ve hit the cap with nigh-on two-thirds as many.
I dont think that is uneven caps, I think its broken queues. Its happened before.
yea I think its a low number.. way lower than 500. I was in queue for EB for about an hour today before I just gave up. when I logged off I was still number 23 in queue.
I have seen queue with 20 players on commander while enemy have 60+
My guess would be its player cap of 200 shared across all 3 servers
If they gave out an exact number, teams would use that information to game the system.
What, you mean like whispering to the other server that they have exactly 80 people on the border because there is a 50 man queue?
Yeah that will surely give the enemy server an advantage, knowing there are actually players on the border.
No, more related to how a lot of servers try to plan out which maps guilds go to and where they think enemy guilds will go.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
If they gave out an exact number, teams would use that information to game the system.
What, you mean like whispering to the other server that they have exactly 80 people on the border because there is a 50 man queue?
Yeah that will surely give the enemy server an advantage, knowing there are actually players on the border.
No, more related to how a lot of servers try to plan out which maps guilds go to and where they think enemy guilds will go.
How is that gaming the system? That’s called organisation. It also make WvW playable, since guilds can spread out instead of all stack on a border and no one can play when 6 guilds are trying to run 30 man raids on a single border.
Might as well call night cappers gaming the system.
(edited by Dawdler.8521)
If they gave out an exact number, teams would use that information to game the system.
What, you mean like whispering to the other server that they have exactly 80 people on the border because there is a 50 man queue?
Yeah that will surely give the enemy server an advantage, knowing there are actually players on the border.
No, more related to how a lot of servers try to plan out which maps guilds go to and where they think enemy guilds will go.
How is that gaming the system? That’s called organisation. It also make WvW playable, since guilds can spread out instead of all stack on a border and no one can play when 6 guilds are trying to run 30 man raids on a single border.
Might as well call night cappers gaming the system.
Simple. Right now such planning is a guess.
Think of an RTS, or even the class comp of a fights guild. Each class has its own role within the guild just as each unit in an RTS has a different role and the numbers are limited. Now apply that principle to guilds themselves. Each guild has a role within WvW. An RTS player always has to plan the number of the different kinds of units and the way they are used with the resources given. If you know how many of X unit an opponent has and when they “run out” of a certain type of unit (how many elementalists and necros the opposing guild has and you count down how many they have left, etc.), you can adjust your strats.
For example as applied to WvW, the tactic of influencing the distribution of your own forces in such a way as to trick the opponent into queuing up their own borderland map with certain types of guilds that do not play the PPT game over guilds and players that do becomes far easier to perform if exact numbers are known. This is an extremely advanced tactic implemented through social engineering that even the guilds involved do not realize happens on purpose – I seen it last utilized months ago when T2 was a four-way fight between YB, FA, SoS, and DB. It means you can also ensure that you send only enough PPT-style attackers to a certain map as needed without pulling off too many players from another map.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
It’s time to petition for transparency on this issue. It’s a huge factor in how the games are played and decided.
It would be a joke of a game if its shared across all servers. That’s not fair at all.
It would be a joke of a game if its shared across all servers. That’s not fair at all.
If thats not the case then the community in this game is obviously
the worst and boring i ever seen in a game joining a border just to take up space
For example as applied to WvW, the tactic of influencing the distribution of your own forces in such a way as to trick the opponent into queuing up their own borderland map with certain types of guilds that do not play the PPT game over guilds and players that do becomes far easier to perform if exact numbers are known.
You seem to say that the numbers need to be hidden so that people can avoid fights and PPT in peace. Dont want people trying to fight that 50 man blob that just ported to an empty border!
I dont quite see what’s good about that.
For example as applied to WvW, the tactic of influencing the distribution of your own forces in such a way as to trick the opponent into queuing up their own borderland map with certain types of guilds that do not play the PPT game over guilds and players that do becomes far easier to perform if exact numbers are known.
You seem to say that the numbers need to be hidden so that people can avoid fights and PPT in peace. Dont want people trying to fight that 50 man blob that just ported to an empty border!
I dont quite see what’s good about that.
If you think that’s what I said, you should re-read what I wrote. The tactic I described is a way to influence who goes where on an enemy server in order to reduce the ability of the defending server to get their own 50-man blob in to defend.
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
(edited by Chaba.5410)
Guys, this an easy thing to confirm, que up a map any map, you can use an empty PVE map to get the total number, then divide by 3, and have everyone on the map on TS. Then you’ll see. The total number of players in WvW per map seems to be exatly same as the PvE maps, which is 180.
Divide 180 into 3 sides and you get 60. This is your softcap. Now there is also a hardcap, so a few people over 60 per each side may actually get in, this is when people que up simoultaneously etc. Over the few years playing this game I have never seen more then 200 people confirmed on same map. So its 60 per side + few more the “few more” number slightly varies at times as it is the border between the soft cap and the hard cap.
I’m pretty sure caps depend on not just number of players, but also minions — necro, guardian, ranger, etc. (maybe minis too) — because they all consume server resources.
Anet will never admit it because it’ll cause a ton of outrage.
I’m pretty sure caps depend on not just number of players, but also minions — necro, guardian, ranger, etc. (maybe minis too) — because they all consume server resources.
Anet will never admit it because it’ll cause a ton of outrage.
I read a most amusing extension of this idea the other week, with one player adamantly claiming that siege took up player space. It made me chuckle.
The class pets I recall Devs saying they take marginal space. The minis? Not so sure, they do help with lag tho if dismissed.
Anet will never admit it because it’ll cause a ton of outrage.
And they will completely ignore that WvW player outrage and keep doing what they are doing.
You do know what this exact thing has happened before, right? I dont think they ever admitted that the original WvW queue system was completely broken. Proven fact, it was not a FIFO list or anything like that, it was some wierd queue cluster system which placed you in a random cluster, making you enter WvW at a random time. So if cluster A was before cluster B and someone left A, a new player would join A and get ahead of everyone in B.
You could exploit the system by triggering a cluster hop with your entire group, so that all of you got to the front of the line. Then they added the numbered queue as a feature. I dont think they ever explained the old queue system – I dont think they could explain the old queue system, because it was probably just as much a mystery to Anet as it was for us. I have no idea who coded it but the man was either a genius or a madman.
If Anet fixed a problem with the border population, it will probably be listed in the patch as “Tweaked a few numbers in WvW” and then you’ll never know about it.
On SFR we generally have 20 active, 20 waiting for a raid to start and 20 alt accounts from the opposition standing around taking up space…
On SFR we generally have 20 active, 20 waiting for a raid to start and 20 alt accounts from the opposition standing around taking up space…
That still mean you generally outman the opposition with 40 players though.
I really don’t see the problem with having numbers on the top bar of the screen showing populations for each world on any given map. What exactly is the argument?
That seeing actual numbers will somehow open up a new way to cheat? How? You run into the blob once and see that the opposite team has about X number of people. Or you can just look up and see that the opposite team has X number of people.
Someone please explain how seeing numbers can give one team an advantage over another.
On SFR we generally have 20 active, 20 waiting for a raid to start and 20 alt accounts from the opposition standing around taking up space…
This, this is so much BS. Who knows, maybe someone is hacking and burying the characters below the map even. Between this kind of bs and cross server guilds 2v1’ing, WvW is pretty much broken. We endure it because WvW can still be fun if played by the rules. Though ruined by all those dishonorable individuals who insist on cheapening the game mode.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are way’s of gaming the Q system already. The team sizes certainly are not equal. More than likely there is some type of variability to keep the scores more even or something. Because if it was a static and consistent number, then Anet should have no problems stating it openly. Hiding it has always been extremely shady.
I don’t know why it would be so hard to get a tier to organize an event to get a shoulder count. It would only take 15 minutes or less.
There should be a / mapinfo command that pings the entire map. Would be great if it also briefly illuminated all friendlies on the mini map.
Outside of prime time, the numbers of each borderland can approach 0 per side:-)
Couple of points. First, the reduced queue size I feel is between 60-70 players a side. Evidence? Just a lack of seeing truly massive blobs lately. And watching how many guilds can fit on a given map.
Second, ANet can throttled the population in WvW, they’ve admitted to doing this, so any hard count you get in WvW can change at any time.
Third, we know from places like Teq and Silverwastes that when the breach happens, or Teq spawns, there is a brief window where you can often get into a full instance. So while most people want to think there is a hard firm number on any given map, I think it is more flexible number and based on resource allocation and server hardware that ANet is not particularly keen to show us.
Darkhaven>Dragonbrand>Blackgate>Maguuma>Yaks Bend>Stormbluff Isle>Yaks Bend
I’m pretty sure caps depend on not just number of players, but also minions — necro, guardian, ranger, etc. (maybe minis too) — because they all consume server resources.
Anet will never admit it because it’ll cause a ton of outrage.
I read a most amusing extension of this idea the other week, with one player adamantly claiming that siege took up player space. It made me chuckle.
The class pets I recall Devs saying they take marginal space. The minis? Not so sure, they do help with lag tho if dismissed.
I remember a while back a golem party with 50 golems and not enough people to man them because they got capped. People suspected golems contributed in some way to the cap.
This was in a lower tier server, in an enemy BL so it was unlikely there were tons of people running around contributing to the map cap.
It’s not so outrageous to believe that siege contribute to the cap as they do take up server resources. Who knows though. Well, Anet of course, but they don’t communicate.
I have been curious about this for years now. Also, the useless “outnumbered” buff what player to player ratio will make that appear?
I’m pretty sure caps depend on not just number of players, but also minions — necro, guardian, ranger, etc. (maybe minis too) — because they all consume server resources.
Anet will never admit it because it’ll cause a ton of outrage.
I read a most amusing extension of this idea the other week, with one player adamantly claiming that siege took up player space. It made me chuckle.
The class pets I recall Devs saying they take marginal space. The minis? Not so sure, they do help with lag tho if dismissed.
I remember a while back a golem party with 50 golems and not enough people to man them because they got capped. People suspected golems contributed in some way to the cap.
This was in a lower tier server, in an enemy BL so it was unlikely there were tons of people running around contributing to the map cap.
It’s not so outrageous to believe that siege contribute to the cap as they do take up server resources. Who knows though. Well, Anet of course, but they don’t communicate.
Yes, but I’ve also witnessed first-hand SFR and Elona (oh Elona loves loves its golems lol), with 50 golem marches and a full map blob. Many, many times.
So perhaps a bug that day?