Guild Wars 2

So there are endless threads about how the imbalance in population makes it unfun, unrewarding, demoralizing, etc. Anet’s first Collaboration thread is about population imbalance.

Here is a plan that will allow all three sides to have fun for the week of an unbalanced fight where there is one server that is much stronger than the other two.

This will require a paradigm shift but it will be worth it in the end. The current paradigm when facing a much stronger opponent is that EB gets a lot of players. The Home BL is defended . And the other weaker server’s BL is attacked if there are enough people to do that.

I would submit that this paradigm is an exercise in frustration. And that it is the reason for the litany of complaints on the Forums as well as the precipitous drop-off in people playing in these matches after reset.

The reason for the frustration is the attachment to the Home BL. And this is where the paradigm shift must occur. The weaker servers must abandon their Home BL at first.

It’s going to be hard to let go. But it must be done. The Home BL is the hardest map to fight on, yet when vastly outnumbered this is the first BL people go to – why? “We must defend our home!” That’s why. And this is exactly the thinking that must change.

The new paradigm. The two weaker servers enter EB and the Stronger Server’s BL. They maintain peace along their common border. They each attack the stronger server.

On EB it’s pretty obvious.

On the Stronger Server’s BL each attacking server “goes up their respective side”. Each would take their spawn tower, camp and side keep. They can share the south camp back and forth as each needs supply. From there, they take the NE/NW camp and tower. Then they can both have fun attacking garrison.

The Home BL can be ventured into as each server sees fit. Once people realize that fun is being had, morale will rise, more people will show up and fun on the Home BL will open up. But at no time should the Home BL take precedence over EB or the Stronger Server’s BL because then you fall back into the trap of the old paradigm.

In this new paradigm the two less populated servers are no longer outnumbered. Balance has been achieved.

People’s prime objectives are not balance, but fun and rewards. Perhaps even in opposite order.

So they are going to attack the weaker server instead of the strongest so they have the best shot at easy kills, capturing objectives, WXP, loot, and achievements.

Putting developer failure on the players is not the answer. People always follow the path of least resistance and will continue to.

When Anet changes the rules and mechanics of WvW to where its actually enticing to double team the strongest server, only then will it begin to happen. How do you this? You make the strongest team’s objectives worth more. Both in PPT, on the scoreboard and in terms of WXP or loot for taking their stuff.

In Dark Age of Camelot, the answer to that was Relics, the items that used to be north of the northern camps. They had a giant hard to break into keep with uber-guards that held a relic that would basically take a whole server to take down.

Once taken, they added I believe 10% to everything per relic taken depending on type held. Each side had 2 relics, one Melee one Magic If I remember right.

Those were the ultimate goal of WvW, getting relics, relic raids.

Once yours were taken, the other sides would generally start sniping each other and going after each others relics, lowering pressure on the losing side, allowing them to continue to be in the fight even if weakened.

Relics weren’t enough to overpower, they were just a boost, also bragging rights.

I heard that in this game people figured out ways to cheat and grab them, so they were removed. I guess the devs forgot that they were part of the balancing of the original game they basically stole the whole WvW format from :p

One of the things we like to do in an unbalanced match is to take stonemist when the zerg server is taking something else on the map. Then we siege the heck out of the lords room. The zerg server knows they are the zerg server of the match and will come for stonemist within mintues. Zerg servers are usually baddies who just keep throwing numbers at you spamming there #1 key. So when they come you make tons of loot as they will just keep respawning and coming right back and running into your siege spamming there #1 key and dieing over and over.

Easy. Don’t log into WvW for a week. Transfer servers if the problem persists. Start playing another game if that doesn’t work. This has been the solution for a large portion of the WvW player base. We only have one guy from our guild playing in WvW now.

This could work if the reward system did not work as it does now. Right now the rewards are better to attack the weakest team then to challenge the strongest team.

This probably won’t be a popular idea, but change the reward system to only reward the first place team with a victory chest(s) at the conclusion of the match. This would increase incentive for trying to get first.

The victory chest would need to contain a reward that would offset the loot, WxP etc. that can be obtained from raiding the weakest opponent over the course of the week. What that would be I do not know, but without reducing the incentives from beating up the weaker server long term alliances between servers will not happen.

Think about all the fun you could have after the leagues are over.

Pendragon.8735:

People’s prime objectives are not balance, but fun and rewards. Perhaps even in opposite order.

So they are going to attack the weaker server instead of the strongest so they have the best shot at easy kills, capturing objectives, WXP, loot, and achievements.

Putting developer failure on the players is not the answer. People always follow the path of least resistance and will continue to.

When Anet changes the rules and mechanics of WvW to where its actually enticing to double team the strongest server, only then will it begin to happen. How do you this? You make the strongest team’s objectives worth more. Both in PPT, on the scoreboard and in terms of WXP or loot for taking their stuff.

True, the player must think beyond the immediate reward. But by forgoing the immediate reward more fun can be had. That’s why I said it would be hard. I mean they’ve done experiments with children regarding immediate reward vs. long term reward and by a relatively young age people can resist the immediate reward – surely we as players can too.

Anet is not going to do anything about it anytime soon. Tons of suggestions were made in the Colaborative thread about giving rewards for attacking the stronger server. Tons of suggestions about how to achieve better balance. Devon chose to focus on server transfer prices. He did mention suggestions regarding scoring changes so hopefully they are thinking along the lines of how to incentivize attacking the stronger server. But until then its up to the players.

Fun is what you make of it and no two people will probably agree when you are delt kitten instead of cards. With that being said when I’m facing a match up like this (and Ebay has the last couple of weeks) I:

1. Equip hammer
2. Move about map to my favorite hunting spots
3. Target foe, use skill 4 / Banish
4. Giggle like a little school kid watching people get punted to their deaths wondering wth just happened.

When that gets old and people wise up I then swap to sword/shield and replace banish with shield 5 and enjoy similar acts of fun. This is actually ideal to use in the outter map jumping puzzles hiding at the entry Yes, you take the leap of faith only to be denied – lol. Staff also works but, well, I have to have a few secrets for my fun.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

One of the things we like to do in an unbalanced match is to take stonemist when the zerg server is taking something else on the map. Then we siege the heck out of the lords room. The zerg server knows they are the zerg server of the match and will come for stonemist within mintues. Zerg servers are usually baddies who just keep throwing numbers at you spamming there #1 key. So when they come you make tons of loot as they will just keep respawning and coming right back and running into your siege spamming there #1 key and dieing over and over.

I love 5-10maning stonemist with mez portals. So much fun take in 1min = not time for zerg to respond

Unless you have a character setup for roaming or want to commit to making one, and enjoy that style of play, there’s not a whole lot to do if your server never has a period of time where the numbers game allows for attack rather than being rolled over and over in hopeless defense.

I think by now most players understand when they are experiencing a very lopsided loss that it’s generally not because their server is appreciably worse at the game, but rather lacking the numbers and coverage of their opponent(s). I give a lot of credit to servers that still maintain a good attitude during these times and find ways to have fun and spoil karma trains, instead of leaving all their stuff as undefended paper all week. Particularly, when for some servers the light at the end of the tunnel is a long ways off with bad matchups locked in for the entire duration of the league.

Having just come back and seeing this league crud, I am wondering why most matches are not just 2 vs 1 by default?

Wildman.9641:

Having just come back and seeing this league crud, I am wondering why most matches are not just 2 vs 1 by default?

Because ppt-wise, it’s always better to beat up on the weakest of the three servers to take their points.

“How to have fun in an unbalanced match”

a) Log off and play another game

b) Read GW2 official forums because something outrageously funny will rare it’s head, guaranteed

c)Continue the mental gymnastics that excuse lame game design and try hard to find fun in GW2

P.s

The collaborative thread is PR bullkitten.

Straegen.2938:

Easy. Don’t log into WvW for a week. Transfer servers if the problem persists. Start playing another game if that doesn’t work. This has been the solution for a large portion of the WvW player base. We only have one guy from our guild playing in WvW now.

^This. You can only have so much fun flipping camps and killing sentries when you’re grossly outnumbered. Jumping puzzles, meh. Toxic tower, really? I spend more time rezzing in there than I do actually going forward.

gennyt.3428:

“How to have fun in an unbalanced match”

a) Log off and play another game

b) Read GW2 official forums because something outrageously funny will rare it’s head, guaranteed

c)Continue the mental gymnastics that excuse lame game design and try hard to find fun in GW2

P.s

The collaborative thread is PR bullkitten.

a) This is what happens and makes the match even more unbalanced.

b) Would rather do something than read about something.

c) That’s what I’m doing with this thread.

They(Anet) need to act quick, people have complained since ages about mindles zergs and it’s getting more annoying every second. Everything in wvw just screams zerg now. It’s double unfair for people with less numbers because they cannot afford to run around in zerker gear where the high population zergs can.
Do something anet get of that living story nonsense and fix your game for a chance.

Watching 6 FA die to 4 uplevels at a supply camp. Watching FA send 20 people to kill 4 uplevels after they took the camp. True story, it was fun.

Gather some people and go hit some tower door (remember put scouts in every direction) and when enemy zone blob come use laugh emote and run away (don’t let them get any kills). Wait a while and repeat.

Junkpile.7439:

Gather so people and go hit some tower door (remember put scouts in every direction) and when enemy zone blob come use laugh emote and run away (don’t let them get any kills). Wait a while and repeat.

Wait is this irony? You are on sfr….