Guild Wars 2

thieves always runaway stealth/teleport when I get them at 25%
cmon I also want my badges kitten ><

As a thief/ warrior/mesmer: my technique for dealing with other thieves.

1) Active dodge while targeting attacking thief, you should be healing yourself and clearing conditions at this point if you have the ability to do so.
2) keep moving while aoeing/frontal cone/basic attacking the thief/the last location of the thief in the second before the vanished. If Shadow refuge was dropped in the last 5 seconds HE IS IN THE SHADOW REFUGE.
3)obtain positional advantage or parity if possible using terrain/npc’s/movement abilities, reset fight.
OR
3) you have obtained health/condition/damage parity with the thief becuase they are probably a GC, and you did not panic, so now you can finish them off with your carefully retained ability of choice. Pat on the back for not blindly blowing all of your cool downs during the first 2 seconds of the engagement.

P.S.

Please no hate from thieves about posting this because people are still going to fail at doing these exact simple things and demand we be “fixed” instead.

Terrahero.9358:

Doomdesire.9365:

Just place some AOE’s on top of you. It’s it a P/D thief, he can only auto attack, no unload from stealth very often. If it’s a BS thief, he’ll have to get hit by AoE. Don’t mindlessly spam random aoes.

You mean, he Steal jumps to you from longrange while stealthed and instantly opens up and finishes you off in under 2seconds?

Yah im sure my 600dmg grenade would scare him away from even thinking about trying that.

You’re an engineer. Use some elixars. It isn’t that complicated.

Op, an single question
what if , i as an thief decide to skip the battle vs an 5 group players and find an easy frag , i stealth and pop up 4 heartseekers and i am at 2000 + distance before you see me
How you counter that ?
1 min latter i find the lowest defence frag in your group , jump on it when you are distarcted with others and get him. Stealth and go away.
Just asking , cause i did that over 100 times

My main is a thief and I just realized how boring the class was. There’s absolutely no diversity and everyone does the same thing. Yawn.

Currently rolling a mesmer now, and lolling at thieves wasting all their initiative ganking my clones while I literally confuse them to death. They were incredibly bad thieves like most of them, yes, but regardless it would’ve been easy to get one shotted by any of them.

Rayya.2591:

Op, an single question
what if , i as an thief decide to skip the battle vs an 5 group players and find an easy frag , i stealth and pop up 4 heartseekers and i am at 2000 + distance before you see me
How you counter that ?
1 min latter i find the lowest defence frag in your group , jump on it when you are distarcted with others and get him. Stealth and go away.
Just asking , cause i did that over 100 times

That’s about the most useful thing a thief can do except for DS in zerg situations, so it would be a pity if you couldn’t do it.

Opc.4718:

Rayya.2591:

Op, an single question
what if , i as an thief decide to skip the battle vs an 5 group players and find an easy frag , i stealth and pop up 4 heartseekers and i am at 2000 + distance before you see me
How you counter that ?
1 min latter i find the lowest defence frag in your group , jump on it when you are distarcted with others and get him. Stealth and go away.
Just asking , cause i did that over 100 times

That’s about the most useful thing a thief can do except for DS in zerg situations, so it would be a pity if you couldn’t do it.

So why should 3 classes out of 8 can reset combat anytime they feel like ?
thief’s damage doesen’t need an nerf, is fine.
But the fact that thief , mesmer and elementarists can leave the combat everytime they feel they lose or are in disadvantage is ….
most of players complain about thief because is easyest to reset combat with , if will get nerfed , elementarists and mesmers complains will start.
I got personaly nothing against thieves, i played most of the time 1, and i know how to counter them, the rest is situational if i win or lose vs them. But the 13 seconds shadow refuge, and spamable cloack and dagger does not suits in wvwvw environment

Opc.4718:

Rayya.2591:

Op, an single question
what if , i as an thief decide to skip the battle vs an 5 group players and find an easy frag , i stealth and pop up 4 heartseekers and i am at 2000 + distance before you see me
How you counter that ?
1 min latter i find the lowest defence frag in your group , jump on it when you are distarcted with others and get him. Stealth and go away.
Just asking , cause i did that over 100 times

That’s about the most useful thing a thief can do except for DS in zerg situations, so it would be a pity if you couldn’t do it.

Not the most useful thing “a thief” can do, but perhaps the most useful thing “that thief” can do. Speccing heavily into assassination/ambush combat and 1vX necessarily means the thief won’t have brought a lot of zerg tools, but that is player choice, not an innate attribute of thieves.

Rayya

But the fact that thief , mesmer and elementarists can leave the combat everytime they feel they lose or are in disadvantage is ….

I think there’s a great point to be made here about mobility being too powerful in WvW. However, we never get to discuss it because people keep blaming stealth when mobility is the real cause of thieves being able to escape. Spreading around 25 % runspeed signets was probably an attempt to close the mobility gaps between some professions, but mere runspeed signets still don’t come close to matching the mobility of professions like elementalist and thief.

Opc.4718:

My main is a thief and I just realized how boring the class was. There’s absolutely no diversity and everyone does the same thing. Yawn.

Currently rolling a mesmer now, and lolling at thieves wasting all their initiative ganking my clones while I literally confuse them to death. They were incredibly bad thieves like most of them, yes, but regardless it would’ve been easy to get one shotted by any of them.

Wait till you find a good p/d thief. You’ll see their attack but can’t hilight them for 3 seconds because they’re still culling in. By the time you can target them to drop clones or do something like a sword 3 burst they stealth away again. Then you’ll have met the one thief build that actually is broken (and it’s only broken because culling is busto as kitten).

The glass BS thieves that everyone complains about though… I confused one to death while killing a supply camp supervisor with an F2 burst, and I didn’t even know he was there until he showed up downed on the ground. Mmmm, them easy badges so delicious.

A-net just need to come clean on whether or not they can fix the culling issue – that is a big issue at present (not just for thieves).

As a Ranger, I want to know… I have 2800 Armor, without going full defense, and giving up virtually all my damage, along with having the trait Nature’s Protection, which is supposed to trigger on 10% damage done to me, giving me Protection, yet just now, I got hit with a 4k Steal, followed by a 3500 CnD (why didn’t Protection help here), and it was followed by a 7700 backstab, like immeiately and I was FACING THE THIEF, which should have triggered my Bark Skin, which is supposed to reduce damage by 30%, yet another 3500 CnD hits me, and he finishes me off with a 7700 Backstab.

The funny thing is, I use Endurance Regen Food, for the 40% regen, and I was dodging some of his attacks, but alas, I can’t permanently dodge, so eventually I have to get hit.

What do I do, as a Ranger when my endurance is gone, and my defenses do nothing to block the damage?

The other issue is my pet does nothing from the point he stealths for the first time, just sits next to me.

I have no problems with thieves in WvW, I just click the button and get to the nearest waypoint

jkctmc.8754:

As a Ranger, I want to know… I have 2800 Armor, without going full defense, and giving up virtually all my damage, along with having the trait Nature’s Protection, which is supposed to trigger on 10% damage done to me, giving me Protection, yet just now, I got hit with a 4k Steal, followed by a 3500 CnD (why didn’t Protection help here), and it was followed by a 7700 backstab, like immeiately and I was FACING THE THIEF, which should have triggered my Bark Skin, which is supposed to reduce damage by 30%, yet another 3500 CnD hits me, and he finishes me off with a 7700 Backstab.

The funny thing is, I use Endurance Regen Food, for the 40% regen, and I was dodging some of his attacks, but alas, I can’t permanently dodge, so eventually I have to get hit.

What do I do, as a Ranger when my endurance is gone, and my defenses do nothing to block the damage?

The other issue is my pet does nothing from the point he stealths for the first time, just sits next to me.

there is no escape from it. try this , after first backstab he should revealed 3 sec so spam tab. once you target it use longbow nr 2 skills (the channeling 1) he will be forced to dodge back not to stealth. after dodge knock him back with your pet . and after that you got an chance to escape if you leap in the other direction with gs

I got it so AOE around then he will wait to attack during my cooldown and is I damage him too much he will stealth in combat then damage me sealth until I die. Thanks for the help. They require to balance. I agree in beta they required improvements but now they are the reverse. I am actually starting a thief. I cant beat them so I am going to join them…

jkctmc.8754:

As a Ranger, I want to know… I have 2800 Armor, without going full defense, and giving up virtually all my damage, along with having the trait Nature’s Protection, which is supposed to trigger on 10% damage done to me, giving me Protection, yet just now, I got hit with a 4k Steal, followed by a 3500 CnD (why didn’t Protection help here), and it was followed by a 7700 backstab, like immeiately and I was FACING THE THIEF, which should have triggered my Bark Skin, which is supposed to reduce damage by 30%, yet another 3500 CnD hits me, and he finishes me off with a 7700 Backstab.

The problem is that the fight, from your point of view, was about 5 seconds long and gave you 5 seconds to counteract the assault.

The fight from the thief’s point of view was closer to 8/9 seconds long because they were using and queuing skills for their attack before the first point of damage was done. The thief is half way done with their attack when your zero-second happens and you can begin to defend.

So the thief used at least 7/8 skills to attack, while you only used 3/4 to defend. On a purely ability-based level, this is balanced, the attacker is expending more resources and effort than you are in defense. From a mechanical perspective, the counter to an enemy precasting a bunch of offense and hitting you is to precast a bunch of defense, but of course you can’t do that if you don’t know you’re about to be attacked. The element of surprise is far more important than the actual skills here, since the element of surprise is what limits your ability to match offense with defense and puts you immediately behind.

micmartin.7465:

I got it so AOE around then he will wait to attack during my cooldown

Yet another reason that tossing AEs all over the place is not an effective counter to stealth. Unless you’re dropping them on top of yourself as a defensive measure, it is a waste of resources to drop AEs until you have some idea where the stealthed opponent is.

Tulisin.6945:

Yet another reason that tossing AEs all over the place is not an effective counter to stealth. Unless you’re dropping them on top of yourself as a defensive measure, it is a waste of resources to drop AEs until you have some idea where the stealthed opponent is.

Everytime I try to explain that I get hit by l2p comments, and get told that spamming AoE’s randomly is a skill-based counter to thieves rather than a luck based waste of resources.

Ekove.4586:

Tulisin.6945:

Yet another reason that tossing AEs all over the place is not an effective counter to stealth. Unless you’re dropping them on top of yourself as a defensive measure, it is a waste of resources to drop AEs until you have some idea where the stealthed opponent is.

Everytime I try to explain that I get hit by l2p comments, and get told that spamming AoE’s randomly is a skill-based counter to thieves rather than a luck based waste of resources.

This probably has something to do with ANet’s comment about how you should use AE and conditions to hurt thieves. While that may be their design intent, it isn’t reality. It isn’t good advice, but people keep repeating it.

I didnt go toughness on my ranger but I still manage to kill thieves.

I win like 50% of my thief fights vs melee thieves. Versus good pistol thieves I nearly always lose because they simply get out of range to regen when they lose and come back to kite you again: Unload pistol skill, stealth, unload pistol skill, stealth, … till you dead.

For this reason even on my warrior I simply ignore ranged thieves.

These points might help you against thieves

• vs pistol thieves, ignore them; speed skills and move
• You need HP to survive their damage bursts, therefor imo for rangers first invest in vitality then toughness
• Battle awareness: Always be on the lookout for thieves and prepare when they go invis; only then you ll have a chance. If caught unprepared the first burst will nearly kill you.
• Traps are the only way I found to survive vs thieves; fire traps + spikes = a must!
• Run in line abit, lay a trap behind you and as soon as you see it triggered, barrage on yourself; helps alot if you combine it with QZ. Traps dmg plus QZ + Barrage enough to kill normal thieves
• Extend you bleeding time and invest in condition damage (dont go all out but you need to increase these values)
• Dodge is your friend; especially the first burst you have to dodge
• Dodge timing is very important and you need practise for this. Play sPvP and fight thieves to train your dodging. You have to learn to dodge their skills and not simply dodge.
• Use shortbow to also apply bleeds and stun, snare the thief when he unstealths. Dont forget to poison ….
• Pets: I use the dog and wolf for their KD and fear. If you get lucky your pet will land a knockdown on the thief giving you time to either unload bleeds on him or to run according on how the fight went.
• Critical: Must have: Trait which applies bleeds on crit, can add the same on weapon. Crit value must be at least around 45%

It is tough to play against thieves as ranger but it is doable. Don’t lose hope and just keep on practising with a set build. Don’t change your build too much, because you ’ll need to know your skills by heart.

Summary:

• Applying bleeds is your main weapon against thieves
• Having movement skills to survive until your dmg applied kicks in(therefor sPvP)

Homework:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uq8BJrmrUaU#

My mesmer guide I made a video about the matter a while ago. Its from a mesmer point of wiev but show how we can fight thiefs.

/Osicat

Bring a D/D ele.
Unless its a party of 5 Thieves…….then run away.
Oh yeah, and respec if you’re still rolling a glass cannon. (Unless you’re a Thief :p )

So we need a big stragety on how to kill them, why dont we need one for all the other classes? The fact that you have to do what you say to even try and kill a thief is proof that they are op.

@Scarto

sPvP, is not WvW, and has nerfed a lot of abilities so they’re easier to deal with, in sPvP. The Thieves in WvW are permastealthed, so you can’t dodge skills you can’t see, for example. Not to mention the damage you see in sPvP is nearly half what we see in WvW.

Your video is kind of insulting to WvW players.

I suggest all the complainers about thieves actually roll thieves.

Can’t beat them…..Join em……..

Then you’ll realize you fail on a thief and go back to your other class

@Jinks

Funny, my main is a Thief, and I’ve got roughly 7k kills on him now.

No other class in the game, with the exception of maybe the Necromancer is as bad as the Ranger brother.

I’ve noticed a lot of these videos don’t cover combos that allow for higher applications of stealth, if done right.

You’re not killing a decent thief like this. You might not die, but you’re not killing him either. I’ve never seen this honestly, but on my thief I’d either walk away or wait to smack a few down when you get bored.

I’m not going through the post again for a quote, but whoever said mesmer is worse with 12s invuln you should try dodge roll spec with a thief with energy sigils and runes of the adventurer while tossing out the occassional sb or dd 3 just for the hell of it. It’s always fun to get 15+ dodges in a row and perma stealth with insane healing.

Jinks.2057:

I suggest all the complainers about thieves actually roll thieves.

Can’t beat them…..Join em……..

Then you’ll realize you fail on a thief and go back to your other class

I did that, overpowered as hell, but has weaknesses… thankfully you can spec to close those gaps. Anyone failing on a thief needs to l2p. Granted not nearly as op’d in spvp imo. I don’t care how they balance though tbh… with 7 geared 80s I don’t have to get frustrated when something is opd or gets nerfed

Jinks.2057:

I suggest all the complainers about thieves actually roll thieves.

Can’t beat them…..Join em……..

Then you’ll realize you fail on a thief and go back to your other class

i got my thief , got 17k wvw kills with it at under 1000 deaths . preety good ratio don’t you belive ?
But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.
cause my guardian cannot leave battle when he feel he loses, my necro cannot either.
show me , and i can prove you i stay in battle for 1 h vs you, without reset combat with lvl 1 dagger and no armor / acesoryes , only with my stealth from traits /regen from traits and c&d . And that is overpowered. Waiting you for test if you don’t belive, i will also use only off hand dagger and main hand free.

How to kill a thief:

1. Knockdown, Stun, daze, root, bleed, confuse, freeze, fire, poison, slow, reflect.

If said thief goes all stealthy drop AoEs and wait.

Keep your camera zoomed out.

You can move too.

EVADE.

Oh my it is so easy to kill a thief or at least ruin their day.

EDIT: Wait did I just read someone posted "i kill bads in 1.5 s’???? Wow. Bet that line gets the ladies!

1. Shadowstep > kd, stun,chill, confusion, burn, poison, root, slow, and bleed
2. Hide in Shadows > bleed, burn, poison
3. Reflect only counters p/d, even then only idiots can’t see a majority of reflect fields in this game…. distortion grants reflect is probably the most subtle and even then…… only an idiot attacks someone immune to damage.
4. AOE… do you even play a thief? AoE rarely hurts a thief worth a kitten
5. Dodge > all and thief can do it far more than any other class in the game

You say you can kill a thief when really all you can kill is an idiot and you could do that on any class with nearly any spec.

hex.3218:

How to kill a thief:

1. Knockdown, Stun, daze, root, bleed, confuse, freeze, fire, poison, slow, reflect.

If said thief goes all stealthy drop AoEs and wait.

Keep your camera zoomed out.

You can move too.

EVADE.

Oh my it is so easy to kill a thief or at least ruin their day.

EDIT: Wait did I just read someone posted "i kill bads in 1.5 s’???? Wow. Bet that line gets the ladies!

and if the thief is not afk , you will mostly land knockback and root if they are aoe.
with only 10 points in shadow arts , you will cure 1 condition every 3 seconds , shadow refuge last 3 + 9 seconds or 4 + 12
As an thief i had troubles with :
gs warriors who spammed 1 non stop , needed to bait them but most of the times i wonned , even if i had to keep them 5 min on combat while i regened 350 hp/sec stealthed.
guardians with high healling, couldn’t drop them solo
elementarists D/D -bunker spec, needed to catch them off guard with at least 2-3 lucky crits, some 1 vs 1 went up to 20 minutes
Anything else was just walking sheep on map

Jinks.2057:

I suggest all the complainers about thieves actually roll thieves.

Can’t beat them…..Join em……..

Then you’ll realize you fail on a thief and go back to your other class

Why do so many thieves think they are so much more skilled than most other GW2 players?

Do you seriously think it takes that much skill to play one? Have you ever considered you might be ‘playing so well’ because you are playing an overpowered class? Egotistical ?

I’m a warrior with 33k hp, 2.8k defense with hammer as primary, and 3k defense with sword/shield as secondary. I’m wearing P/V/T gear and running a 20/0/20/30/0 shout-based build. My armor is runed with soldier runes so my shouts also remove conditions. My hammer has a sigil to enhance control, and my shield has a sigil to enhance stun. My shouts are constantly healing, curing conditions, and the longer the fight continues my power increases and stays increased. This basically puts a thief at a big disadvantage since no matter what build they run they are usually toast or just run away. With the control of the hammer and sword/shield and constant buffs and healing they just don’t really know what to do. I’ve surprised many thieves and since running this build don’t think I’ve been taken down by one, I’m just too tough. There is only one thing a thief can do against me, and that’s run away.

tl;dr As a warrior just load up on P/V/T and carry a hammer and sword/shield. This will rock your world in WvW. You’ll own in 2 vs 1, sometimes even 3 vs 1, and you’ll obliterate in 1 vs 1.

Rayya.2591:

But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.

Seriously? Use literally any attack and kill them. Someone who generally has 7,000~ HP (at 50 %) and very little toughness just confined themselves to a small circle for at least 4 seconds. Even bunkers can down that solo. If there’s more than one person trying to kill the thief they should only last a couple seconds.

Shadow Refuge at 50 % in an attempt to escape is an absolutely horrible example of effectively using stealth. A thief’s ability to disengage and reset combat comes almost entirely from mobility, not stealth. Shadow Refuge trades in nearly all of your mobility for stealth, which is a losing proposition against anyone not entirely terrible at PvP.

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.

Seriously? Use literally any attack and kill them. Someone who generally has 7,000~ HP (at 50 %) and very little toughness just confined themselves to a small circle for at least 4 seconds. Even bunkers can down that solo. If there’s more than one person trying to kill the thief they should only last a couple seconds.

Shadow Refuge at 50 % in an attempt to escape is an absolutely horrible example of effectively using stealth.

just use shadow refuge and thief guild at the same time like a pro.

Esrever.8613:

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.

Seriously? Use literally any attack and kill them. Someone who generally has 7,000~ HP (at 50 %) and very little toughness just confined themselves to a small circle for at least 4 seconds. Even bunkers can down that solo. If there’s more than one person trying to kill the thief they should only last a couple seconds.

Shadow Refuge at 50 % in an attempt to escape is an absolutely horrible example of effectively using stealth.

just use shadow refuge and thief guild at the same time like a pro.

I’m not sure if you’re joking but there are a number of problems with that cunning plan.

toughness = a thief’s bane

Well I’m happy that, after reading the whole thread, not one person mentioned a sword/dagger build. I’m glad my secret is still safe and everyone will expect me to do the usual backstab “tricks.”

SniffyCube.6107:

toughness = a thief’s bane

Oh yeah!

Fortunately, my main character is a thief d / p (the screen is taken form my warr), but when I saw that damages I’ve done a big laugh thinking about how Jon Peters and co. worked (?) on the d/d spec. Great job guys!

Scarn.6810:

Well I’m happy that, after reading the whole thread, not one person mentioned a sword/dagger build. I’m glad my secret is still safe and everyone will expect me to do the usual backstab “tricks.”

Are you on the T1 server? I was watching a thief with this build from a distance the other day. I watched him drop 3-4 players from JQ. He also took out a guardian from my guild (who is no slouch) without much trouble at all. I engaged once, (as a D/D Ele) only to see the thief vanish never to be seen again. I am looking forward to eventually fighting the Sword/Dagger & Bow Thief build. I’ll be online tonight looking for you :p

Edit: I now see you reside on Maguuma, I will have to find another S/D Thief to play with…..

KnattyDreads.1856:

Scarn.6810:

Well I’m happy that, after reading the whole thread, not one person mentioned a sword/dagger build. I’m glad my secret is still safe and everyone will expect me to do the usual backstab “tricks.”

Are you on the T1 server? I was watching a thief with this build from a distance the other day. I watched him drop 3-4 players from JQ. He also took out a guardian from my guild (who is no slouch) without much trouble at all. I engaged once, (as a D/D Ele) only to see the thief vanish never to be seen again. I am looking forward to eventually fighting the Sword/Dagger & Bow Thief build. I’ll be online tonight looking for you :p

Edit: I now see you reside on Maguuma, I will have to find another S/D Thief to play with…..

Yes I am on Maguuma. D/D Ele is the best counter to my build that I’ve found, so they will probably run from you more often than not.

It’s nothing crazy or OP, it’s just not what people expect to see from a thief. The popularity of the FotM thief builds is pretty much what makes S/D more effective. Plus, I’ll never get tired of doubling back on five people chasing me and watching them aoe where they think I am.

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.

Seriously? Use literally any attack and kill them. Someone who generally has 7,000~ HP (at 50 %) and very little toughness just confined themselves to a small circle for at least 4 seconds. Even bunkers can down that solo. If there’s more than one person trying to kill the thief they should only last a couple seconds.

Shadow Refuge at 50 % in an attempt to escape is an absolutely horrible example of effectively using stealth. A thief’s ability to disengage and reset combat comes almost entirely from mobility, not stealth. Shadow Refuge trades in nearly all of your mobility for stealth, which is a losing proposition against anyone not entirely terrible at PvP.

good luck on that. i just turn arround in refuge and you will have no clue in wich conner of it i am in. Drop 7000 hp in 4seconds you need at least 4 lucky blind hits. Not to mention that i got 65% of hp downed (stealthed for 12 sec more) and i will rally unless you continue hit me, but you will have no clue if i am downed there or i left for a cigareth
1 vs 1 Reasons to use refuge at 50% hp
guardian just used buble
warrior just used endurance pain
thief just used thief guide
eng just used the ultimate kit (don’t know the name)
i am out of initiative vs that bunker elementarist , my endurance is low and i want to cure the chill

Rayya.2591:

good luck on that. i just turn arround in refuge and you will have no clue in wich conner of it i am in. Drop 7000 hp in 4seconds you need at least 4 lucky blind hits. Not to mention that i got 65% of hp downed (stealthed for 12 sec more) and i will rally unless you continue hit me, but you will have no clue if i am downed there or i left for a cigareth

Shadow Refuge is tiny, it isn’t hard to cover, you don’t need “4 lucky blind hits” to do 7K unless you’re very low-offense. As for not having a clue about whether you’re hitting your target or have put them in the downed state, just read your hit notifications.

I get it, you’ve probably had some success with this tactic, but you haven’t done it because of some kind of Shadow Refuge brilliance, you’ve done it because whoever you were fighting was either very bad or very inexperienced. Shadow Refuge is one of the most powerful and malleable thief utilities, but the way you’re using it is the equivalent of strangling disabled people with a longbow.

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

good luck on that. i just turn arround in refuge and you will have no clue in wich conner of it i am in. Drop 7000 hp in 4seconds you need at least 4 lucky blind hits. Not to mention that i got 65% of hp downed (stealthed for 12 sec more) and i will rally unless you continue hit me, but you will have no clue if i am downed there or i left for a cigareth

Shadow Refuge is tiny, it isn’t hard to cover, you don’t need “4 lucky blind hits” to do 7K unless you’re very low-offense. As for not having a clue about whether you’re hitting your target or have put them in the downed state, just read your hit notifications.

I get it, you’ve probably had some success with this tactic, but you haven’t done it because of some kind of Shadow Refuge brilliance, you’ve done it because whoever you were fighting was either very bad or very inexperienced. Shadow Refuge is one of the most powerful and malleable thief utilities, but the way you’re using it is the equivalent of strangling disabled people with a longbow.

this is BS. to do 7k damage takes 4 hits from a gc. With any char thats remotely tanky, it will take 7-10

Esrever

this is BS. to do 7k damage takes 4 hits from a gc. With any char thats remotely tanky, it will take 7-10

Unless the thief is exceptionally tanky, this is very unlikely, mobs in PvE have more defense than your average WvW thief. It is entirely possible that they’re in the small minority that is actually relying on stat-based defense, but it is a good bet that they aren’t. There’s a very good reason most thieves don’t stand around and take hits, but Shadow Refuge forces them to do just that or forfeit the stealth benefit. Any any glass cannon only averaging 1.5K/hit is a bad glass cannon or using a very weak attack skill.

Tulisin.6945:

Esrever

this is BS. to do 7k damage takes 4 hits from a gc. With any char thats remotely tanky, it will take 7-10

Unless the thief is exceptionally tanky, this is very unlikely, mobs in PvE have more defense than your average WvW thief. It is entirely possible that they’re in the small minority that is actually relying on stat-based defense, but it is a good bet that they aren’t. There’s a very good reason most thieves don’t stand around and take hits, but Shadow Refuge forces them to do just that or forfeit the stealth benefit. Any any glass cannon only averaging 1.5K/hit is a bad glass cannon or using a very weak attack skill.

what classes do you expect to do 7k damage in 4 hits and not be gc?

Archonis.7249:

Man, these QQ or helping people QQ threads are getting annoying.

I am about to just go to every other profession’s forums and QQ about certain builds that I am weak against. Maybe I can just stop learning to play and have the Devs make it easier for me.

If you are running around solo in WvW, it is a good chance that you might die if you run into a BS thief. Why? Because the Thief which is designed to have one hell of a burst probably hasn’t seen someone in at least 1 min. Which means his OMGERD! combo and GCDs are up and ready to stomp you.

This is true, but its also why MMOs should stop making thief type classes. Because everyone who is not a theif cannot stand being killed in 0.0001 seconds before having any chance to do anything – that’s not “fun.” So they cry and cry and cry until the devs nerf theives into the ground, making them unplayable and useless, making theif players miserable.

extreme burst type archtypes should just be done away with in favor of more creative class types that are fun, but rely on a combination of toughness and damage and not insta-kill power.

Selwynn.2758:

Archonis.7249:

Man, these QQ or helping people QQ threads are getting annoying.

I am about to just go to every other profession’s forums and QQ about certain builds that I am weak against. Maybe I can just stop learning to play and have the Devs make it easier for me.

If you are running around solo in WvW, it is a good chance that you might die if you run into a BS thief. Why? Because the Thief which is designed to have one hell of a burst probably hasn’t seen someone in at least 1 min. Which means his OMGERD! combo and GCDs are up and ready to stomp you.

This is true, but its also why MMOs should stop making thief type classes. Because everyone who is not a theif cannot stand being killed in 0.0001 seconds before having any chance to do anything – that’s not “fun.” So they cry and cry and cry until the devs nerf theives into the ground, making them unplayable and useless, making theif players miserable.

extreme burst type archtypes should just be done away with in favor of more creative class types that are fun, but rely on a combination of toughness and damage and not insta-kill power.

OMG this times 10! Stealth plus high burst DPS is kitten and something competant devs, IMO, should have learned from other MMO’s mistakes. You are absolutely correct. Most anyone who is not playing a thief cannot stand them. Their complaints (hopefully) will cause them to get nerfed to being useless (again hopefully)!

I guess the saying about history is true. “Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.” Anet arrogantly must have thought they could “do it right” or whatever. They failed and just haven’t, or cannot, admit it yet.

They apparently cannot fix culling so time to redesign the Thief class. Even without culling issues, their DPS is just totally out of whack compared to other classes given they have stealth and highest mobility in the game. It seems like there sure are a lot of devs playing thieves or something.

I just cannot comprehend how anyone could think thieves are fine in their current form or are not bad for the long term health of GW2.

RedOwl.7496:

Selwynn.2758:

Archonis.7249:

Man, these QQ or helping people QQ threads are getting annoying.

I am about to just go to every other profession’s forums and QQ about certain builds that I am weak against. Maybe I can just stop learning to play and have the Devs make it easier for me.

If you are running around solo in WvW, it is a good chance that you might die if you run into a BS thief. Why? Because the Thief which is designed to have one hell of a burst probably hasn’t seen someone in at least 1 min. Which means his OMGERD! combo and GCDs are up and ready to stomp you.

This is true, but its also why MMOs should stop making thief type classes. Because everyone who is not a theif cannot stand being killed in 0.0001 seconds before having any chance to do anything – that’s not “fun.” So they cry and cry and cry until the devs nerf theives into the ground, making them unplayable and useless, making theif players miserable.

extreme burst type archtypes should just be done away with in favor of more creative class types that are fun, but rely on a combination of toughness and damage and not insta-kill power.

OMG this times 10! Stealth plus high burst DPS is kitten and something competant devs, IMO, should have learned from other MMO’s mistakes. You are absolutely correct. Most anyone who is not playing a thief cannot stand them. Their complaints (hopefully) will cause them to get nerfed to being useless (again hopefully)!

I guess the saying about history is true. “Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.” Anet arrogantly must have thought they could “do it right” or whatever. They failed and just haven’t, or cannot, admit it yet.

They apparently cannot fix culling so time to redesign the Thief class. Even without culling issues, their DPS is just totally out of whack compared to other classes given they have stealth and highest mobility in the game. It seems like there sure are a lot of devs playing thieves or something.

I just cannot comprehend how anyone could think thieves are fine in their current form or are not bad for the long term health of GW2.

Okay seriously? Warrior 100blades can do 28k Damage… No one is calling for a nerf. I have gotten burned down by a warrior faster than any thief… Mesmers MW with illusionary persona and blurred frenzy will also destroy you. Engineers have supply drop plus a bagillion weapon skills with their kits. Necros have those fiend thingys and can throw a bagillion conditions at once plus FEAR you right off a cliff to your doom. guardians can pass EVERY single boon available to their allies. Ele’s like engineers can have a bagillion weapon skills and D/D have insane burst dmg as well. Thieves have stealth (the base mechanic of the class) Rangers have the LONGEST range weapon in the game plus insane damage with the GS. Every class in THIS entire game can be built to do high burst TANK/Bunker and so on. Thats why you have no dedicated healer class. Every profession is based off of what the PLAYER wants to do with their build and so on… Stop blaming skilled players. The only issue related to thieves in WvW is culling which also affects monstrous zergs.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Translation of OP: “How to kill a thief: outnumber and outplay them.”

Personally I can’t wait until the meta switches from teams of stealth herpaderpa-dps to teams of bunkers with tons of CC….. Ah the early days of an MMO when people are still unfamiliar with team play and looking for the way to “pwn noobs”. Remember these days in a year or two, when all the “Thief is useless in WvW!” threads take over these forums.

Yeah, I have a thief, and yeah, I think stealth needs some sort of nerf (or culling fix, but not holding my breath for that, since it likely requires technology to advance significantly). Shadow refuge still has a stupidly long duration, and the ability to chain stealth without getting “revealed” is game breaking in many cases (spent a long time last night with several people camping a mesmer corpse inside garrison while one cheese-perma-stealth thief ran in repeatedly to get bits of a rez on it, eventually it got up despite being nearly killed dozens of times, balance? hello?)….

How are Elementalists…seriously….Elementalists(?) complaining about Thieves. Ele’s have the most overpowered spec in the game right now. I mean wow. When you’ve got Ele’s and Guardians complaining about Thieves, the witch hunt is in full effect.

There needs to be some serious L2P in here. I know this is the WvW board, but try hitting up a tourney or two before forming your conclusions.

Musty.3148:

irishhaf.1692:

Ive asked this in every one of these threads Ive seen… my main is a Ranger… WHAT can I do to extend a fight let alone win a fight 1 on 1 with a thief?

For every single move I have to gain distance thieves have a move to close the gap almost instantly… on and if its an unload spamming monkey I just die…
So give me a clue here.

Edit: as it stands I do not see a single downside to a thief in WvW, if there is please let me know for curiosity sake.

Well, in all honesty, I have (see below) toons. Unfortunately Rangers are walking pinatas of crests for each of them.

You guys need some love.

Mate you nailed !!! I keep playing Ranger because my ojective in WWW ins’t 1v1 and it’s my main since the start of GW1.
Arena listen to this guy!!!
We need your love, please fix us a bit:)