Scenario: ANet decides to split PvP, PvE, and WvW away from each other completely. How would you balance the classes so that there is a big diversity in builds?
I see people always talking about wanting to split PvP, WvW, and PvE. yet, I never see them explain how.
Well some weapon attacks are designed for enemies that are static. They have very low attack speed and long channel time. Or they work on a “you hit me once” “I hit you back a few times” " you hit me again" “I hit you back a few times” kind of back and forth display where the enemy attacks once and you always have a fixed time period to deal damage and then counter that 1 very visible attack again.
Something that works on pve enemies….won’t work on other players given they are mobile. Then there are many mechanics you don’t find in pve like stealth and the ability to use multiple types of variable attacks. SUch that the winner is the one with the most diversity and variety of options available to them in combat. That that means a weapon set with defensive and offensive capabilities is generally the most used for killing other players. Whereas a weapon that leaves you completely open to attacks is gonna be no good at all.
Reduce damage, reduce conditions, reduce cc, reduce boon removing.
Basically make everything weak. Long fights = fun fights.
I’d go down the list at every skill and try to seriously consider the risk/reward. Melee attacks should hit harder dps than ranged attacks. Light armor classes should do more damage than heavy armor classes etc.
The key would be to make as many builds viable as possible. Rebalance out the risk/reward of offence and defence. The hardest hitting attacks in the game are all from heavy armor classes, where’s the risk reward there? The hardest hitting attacks in the game are all from long range and hit multiple people.
Reduce damage, reduce conditions, reduce cc, reduce boon removing.
Basically make everything weak. Long fights = fun fights.
you weren’t around for season one of leagues where you? cause there is a point where a long fight becomes a boring fight. and I’m not saying I want fights that last 5 seconds but just saying that isn’t always the case
It is not necessary to nerf damage or CC just limit the number of hits a player can take per second. This would introduce more variables on builds. And make game more tactic.
I would first make sure that AoE skills cannot be placed one on top of another (like necro wells). Then I would reduce the CC abilities and I would make sure that every single Profession has a good Stabo skill.
I would not separate PvP, WvW and PvE as it would make the game impossible for A.Net to deal with. They can’t deal with the game as it is, making it more complicated won’t help.
You dont or you lock what gear runes sigil food and level you can play in wvw. If you do not do that it will never be balance.
It comes down to what are the key roles that each class can play (dps, cc, condi, boon sharing, healing, etc) and then compare the relative power and complexity of each of those. The new elite specializations and HoT stat combinations are basically the definition of power creep. For most classes the elite spec is simply more powerful than any other 3rd trait line you could pick.
One of the best ways to evaluate based on roles was mentioned above, in looking at the risk/reward balance for each action. That concept is what drives the design of utility and elite skills since they are meant to be a significant power increase at a high cooldown or resource cost.
Most importantly do not drop the nerf hammer like in the past. People sometimes find unique and valuable builds that work great in WvW but are irrelevant to other game modes. I will use the old glamour condi mesmer as an example. It was overpowered in that it could blind and confuse large groups of enemies, but Anet responded not just by tuning the power down a bit but instead by breaking the trait synergies that allowed the build to exist. Since the game launched I have seen many builds smashed like this by the nerf hammer, and that is exactly what we do not want. We want power levels tuned so that we have many different build options available.
It comes down to what are the key roles that each class can play (dps, cc, condi, boon sharing, healing, etc) and then compare the relative power and complexity of each of those. The new elite specializations and HoT stat combinations are basically the definition of power creep. For most classes the elite spec is simply more powerful than any other 3rd trait line you could pick.
One of the best ways to evaluate based on roles was mentioned above, in looking at the risk/reward balance for each action. That concept is what drives the design of utility and elite skills since they are meant to be a significant power increase at a high cooldown or resource cost.
Most importantly do not drop the nerf hammer like in the past. People sometimes find unique and valuable builds that work great in WvW but are irrelevant to other game modes. I will use the old glamour condi mesmer as an example. It was overpowered in that it could blind and confuse large groups of enemies, but Anet responded not just by tuning the power down a bit but instead by breaking the trait synergies that allowed the build to exist. Since the game launched I have seen many builds smashed like this by the nerf hammer, and that is exactly what we do not want. We want power levels tuned so that we have many different build options available.
Roles? WOW, that comes from the Trinity games. The idea is to be as versatile as possible in this game. Everyone has heals, some have boons (Guards, Ele’s , etc.) but all can add to it. Everyone has to have DPS, unless you are a commander.
The trick in WvW is to have builds that compliment your group, unless you roam solo (then survivability is tatamount).
Tone down ranged burst (or even ranged DPS), ranged shouldn’t do as much damage as it is with so much CC, especially revenants and Warriors.
It almost makes focus parties extinct, since they can hit multiple targets, rather than single target burst from thieves and mesmers.
Also tone down boon sharing/uptime abuse, perms protection and, all that, especially with revs additional duration trait.
(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)
It comes down to what are the key roles that each class can play (dps, cc, condi, boon sharing, healing, etc) and then compare the relative power and complexity of each of those. The new elite specializations and HoT stat combinations are basically the definition of power creep. For most classes the elite spec is simply more powerful than any other 3rd trait line you could pick.
One of the best ways to evaluate based on roles was mentioned above, in looking at the risk/reward balance for each action. That concept is what drives the design of utility and elite skills since they are meant to be a significant power increase at a high cooldown or resource cost.
Most importantly do not drop the nerf hammer like in the past. People sometimes find unique and valuable builds that work great in WvW but are irrelevant to other game modes. I will use the old glamour condi mesmer as an example. It was overpowered in that it could blind and confuse large groups of enemies, but Anet responded not just by tuning the power down a bit but instead by breaking the trait synergies that allowed the build to exist. Since the game launched I have seen many builds smashed like this by the nerf hammer, and that is exactly what we do not want. We want power levels tuned so that we have many different build options available.
Roles? WOW, that comes from the Trinity games. The idea is to be as versatile as possible in this game. Everyone has heals, some have boons (Guards, Ele’s , etc.) but all can add to it. Everyone has to have DPS, unless you are a commander.
The trick in WvW is to have builds that compliment your group, unless you roam solo (then survivability is tatamount).
At its core everyone does play DPS but I’m referring more to the utility skills since those can be all personal DPS or group support or healing. The roles I talked about are general types of builds that need to be mixed to have the best result. Organized guild groups mix people playing different roles as their primary focus (assuming that some DPS is done by everyone) so create a stronger team. Pre-stab nerf there were defined frontline, midline, and backline roles (maybe that’s better wording than what I said before). Many classes could fill multiple roles, but not all of them.
The general idea is to compare similar build styles across classes and make sure that none spike too far above the power curve. Similarly, builds can be compared in a single class to balance out the power and make multiple viable builds.
1. vastly reduce aoe condition cleansing and move it to active skills. add some to classes that have less access to it. perhaps have different professions concentrate on different conditions and no AOE, so that they will become better at fighting certain opponent types rather then just blank spam.
2. buff the underused stab skills, perhaps add some stab to classes that have hard access, again, on active and not passive use.
3. add more boonstrip to different professions, perhaps have different professions concentrate on stripping different boons ?
4. some control needs to be implimented in condition removal and boon stripping, to make cover condis and cover boons a bit less effective. another words, removal priority. this would go a very long way to making the game better, as some players would choose to clear damaging conditions 1st, while others CC such as immobilize etc. Likewise with boons, some would go for stability, some for prot, some for might.
5. go through individual damage skills and apply some balance tweaks (how much damage they do and what else they apply) on risk vs reward factors, for example skills with longer cast times that root the player in place are relatively high risk, melee is higher risk then ranged if the build has poor access to gap closers and escapes, but not if it has those.
In general I would like to see less AOE spam of boons and everything and far less passive effects and more active skills instead to the point that when a player dies to a particular playstyle it is 100% that particular players fault not the systems.
this would also go a long way to balance large group fights where if individual players of a group do not time / execute their skills properly vs another group that does, they will lose, as it should be. There would be less “hiding in the zerg” options.
in addition it would provide better balance of small group vs large group, in small groups condition builds are quite a bit over the top, while in large groups same very builds are nearly completely useless due to the above mentioned AOE cleanse spam. Only power builds matter.
(edited by Tongku.5326)
1. Revitalize stability and downgrade the amount of AoE CC effects on stability. i.e. Gravity Well/Hunter’s Ward , MAYBE Phase Smash (huge animation though)
1a. Hallowed Ground — 40-60s recharge (see well of precog …. which is a weaker skill than before , also fragments of faith)
1b. Balanced Stance --- reduced recharge to below 35s
1c. Inspiring Reinforcement —- reduced delay , reduce weakness duration, reduce energy cost
2. Reduce damage on <1 second cast piercing 1200 range skills on heavy classes (Revenant/Warrior/Guardian) to make melee worthwhile , give revenant a condi weapon with 900 range (shortbow/scepter?) since condi doesn’t have any interaction with ferocity
3. Tone down herald : Cruel repercussions, Roiling Mists (+20% crit chance is equal to 420 precision … maybe have a range limit of 600 for the double fury effectiveness so that it is only maximum crit chance for melee/close range OR have it only when not upkeeping a Facet/Impossible Odds), Fury application interval, etc
4. Improve warrior condition removal/resistance to help revitalize the frontine (i.e. “Shrug it off” trait should remove on 2 conditions , dogged march should give Health directly instead of regeneration , Fatal Frenzy should give superspeed for 1-2seconds). Scrapper has more damage-condition resistance than warrior, plus a water field and triple leap finisher ; Protection Injection + Perfectly Weighted + Mecha Legs is stronger than warrior’s Last Stand + Dogged March when there is THIS much CC.
5. nerf elite specs across the board to core spec levels (Reaper, Scrapper, DH, Daredevil, Chrono, Druid/Tempest survivability-wise, etc) … the sales proposition for HoT has come back when the living story comes back
6. Buffs to Revenant Ventari / Salvation line so that speccing into a support rev does more
7. Buff some skills that could be useful in WvW that are rather mediocre: Retreat for example could use a cooldown cut
8. Buff core necro Death shroud (except auto)
(edited by Infusion.7149)
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