Guild Wars 2

So, pvp got meta achievements and a rework of a lot of maps, we got tonic changes!! Yes, that pressing issue has been addressed!!

The Plush Griffon Tonic has been reenabled in WvW.
The Reindeer Tonic has been reenabled in WvW, but the third skill has been removed and replaced with the fourth skill.
The Potion of Ascalonian Mages now functions like a transformation and not like an enhancement. It has been reenabled in WvW.
The Permanent Portable Provisioner can now be used while moving.
The Noblesse Oblige mastery has been disabled in competitive game modes.
The Gift From Scarlet has been disabled in WvW.

Hooray! They obviously know what is important to us….

And the only changes are made to the one map almost no one likes- Deserted BL. Shrines changes.

I’m waiting for when they put capture circles all over the map and make them count for the win..or have us all running around like Stronghold.

How the devs must laugh.

Camp refooogee won’t be getting any food or water this week. But….weeeee got mickey mouse hats!!!!

There’s a hat for yoooooooou. And hat for yoouuuuuuuu. And yoouuuuuuuuu!

Also were taking ur security blankets away…… cause of security reasons…….

Now run along and play children!

The Noblesse Oblige mastery has been disabled in competitive game modes.

I didn’t realize that crap worked in WvW. Good riddance.

The Permanent Portable Provisioner can now be used while moving.

That actually matters to me, lol

I can’t believe some people in this community

“I hate DB!”

• Anet goes and makes improvements to DB to make it more enjoyable to everyone *

“I can’t believe ANet worked on DB! What a waste of their time!”

With how much WvW players complain you guys should be thankful ANet continues to even work on WvW honestly. You complain when you don’t get stuff implemented and you complain when new stuff is implemented.

OriOri.8724:

With how much WvW players complain you guys should be thankful ANet continues to even work on WvW honestly. You complain when you don’t get stuff implemented and you complain when new stuff is implemented.

It certainly sounds like you aren’t a wvw player as you’ve hopped in the WvW thread to address ‘you wvw players’. In either case it seems as though you’ve come to white knight or troll or both and it seems pretty unecessary – especially in the wvw forum.

While the tone of some of the above posts may be letting the ticked-off seep through a bit too much, they certainly aren’t unfounded. WvW is an under represented element of the game when it comes to dev attention. It’s frustrating when patch after patch other areas of the game receive meaningful changes and additions, and WvW is left stagnant and forgotten.

With regards to DB itself, it wasn’t and isn’t near as fun to play and consequentially much much less played than the original maps. Anet surely will have loads of metrics on the subject, but after 16months in game and still similar complaints (at least until the posts are deleted ) with certain aspects of the map its hard for some not to be snarky at the devs. Imagine if only a single raid wing was released and left in an unfun and hence unpopulated state for more than a year; surely raiders would be crying in the same manner as their wvw brethren. Yes each little shave and tweak here and there improve the map, but its still a poorly laid out map that highlights the HoT powercreep and promotes a dull turtle-up playstyle.

Frost

OriOri.8724:

With how much WvW players complain you guys should be thankful ANet continues to even work on WvW honestly. You complain when you don’t get stuff implemented and you complain when new stuff is implemented.

The problem is that it’s not stuff we want or even asked for! And the most important thing is that none of the updates improve or fix any of the problems in WvW! So spending time of the DBL is a waste of time cos only a minority even like the map, the majority would rather see it gone and replaced with another proper WvW BL.
And people like you who go around spouting that we should be thankful for scraps off a dinner table are not helping and obviously are not real WvW players, cos then you would understand.

DevilishLyx.2340:

OriOri.8724:

With how much WvW players complain you guys should be thankful ANet continues to even work on WvW honestly. You complain when you don’t get stuff implemented and you complain when new stuff is implemented.

The problem is that it’s not stuff we want or even asked for! And the most important thing is that none of the updates improve or fix any of the problems in WvW! So spending time of the DBL is a waste of time cos only a minority even like the map, the majority would rather see it gone and replaced with another proper WvW BL.
And people like you who go around spouting that we should be thankful for scraps off a dinner table are not helping and obviously are not real WvW players, cos then you would understand.

I do play WvW. But the problem remains with the players like the ones in this thread. You say that Anet is focusing on stuff that the players didn’t ask for, yet ANet is doing exactly what the player asked for. ANet removed DB, and then players asked for it back. There were a decent amount of people asking for bloodlust to be placed in DB to match the alpine borderlands, and ANet put bloodlust in DB. People continuously whine about DB so ANet has worked on improving the map. People asked Anet to focus on scoring changes first instead of core game mode changes, so ANet focused on scoring changes first. ANet is doing what players asked them to do. Just because you personally didn’t want it doesn’t mean ANet isn’t listening to its players.

Could the updates be coming faster? Yes, I hate how slowly WvW is updated. Absolutely hate it. But that doens’t change the fact that players like you kitten on Anet regardless of what they do to the game mode. You tell them you hate DB and kitten on them for bringing it in, then you go and kitten on them for trying to make it better. Like it or not, the playerbase voted to keep the borderland in, its not going away. So at least be thankful ANet is trying to make it more fun to play on for everyone. But no, that’s apparently too hard. So all players like you do is kitten on Anet for everything that they do.

Is it a big surprise as to why they don’t like developing stuff for WvW? Is it?

You bunch of ingrates!

OriOri.8724:

DevilishLyx.2340:

OriOri.8724:

With how much WvW players complain you guys should be thankful ANet continues to even work on WvW honestly. You complain when you don’t get stuff implemented and you complain when new stuff is implemented.

The problem is that it’s not stuff we want or even asked for! And the most important thing is that none of the updates improve or fix any of the problems in WvW! So spending time of the DBL is a waste of time cos only a minority even like the map, the majority would rather see it gone and replaced with another proper WvW BL.
And people like you who go around spouting that we should be thankful for scraps off a dinner table are not helping and obviously are not real WvW players, cos then you would understand.

I do play WvW. But the problem remains with the players like the ones in this thread. You say that Anet is focusing on stuff that the players didn’t ask for, yet ANet is doing exactly what the player asked for. ANet removed DB, and then players asked for it back. There were a decent amount of people asking for bloodlust to be placed in DB to match the alpine borderlands, and ANet put bloodlust in DB. People continuously whine about DB so ANet has worked on improving the map. People asked Anet to focus on scoring changes first instead of core game mode changes, so ANet focused on scoring changes first. ANet is doing what players asked them to do. Just because you personally didn’t want it doesn’t mean ANet isn’t listening to its players.

Could the updates be coming faster? Yes, I hate how slowly WvW is updated. Absolutely hate it. But that doens’t change the fact that players like you kitten on Anet regardless of what they do to the game mode. You tell them you hate DB and kitten on them for bringing it in, then you go and kitten on them for trying to make it better. Like it or not, the playerbase voted to keep the borderland in, its not going away. So at least be thankful ANet is trying to make it more fun to play on for everyone. But no, that’s apparently too hard. So all players like you do is kitten on Anet for everything that they do.

Is it a big surprise as to why they don’t like developing stuff for WvW? Is it?

No no no those who voted to keep DB are those pve redditors who don’t even reach 1k hours of WvW, they clicked the link in reddit and fancied their votes would actually count for the survival of WvW but instead they are killing it. They go like “Ahh DB is kinda nice for a refreshing change,” but all the seasoned veterans though some do have a niche for DB KNOW that the map is huge, gloomy, too much choke holds (excuse is tactical reason LOL) etc, that map is the heart of THORN for WvW. Don’t believe me? That map is dead for most timezones because most people would just go to EB and Alpine bl first before having to be dragged on there by Team chat call out for help by some lonely WvWers. That’s some reality for you.

We don’t want DB to be in their priority improvements. Just remember of the resounding massive approval for WvW when Alpine was brought back but then Anet just went about clueless after that, we din’t ask for DB to be in their top list and this is what the previous posters above meant.

The vote for keeping DB was phrased thus ‘would you prefer to keep DB and we might work on another map, or vote against keeping it and we’ll never work on one ever again’.

There really wasn’t much choice.

And using the argument that they don’t like developing stuff because the players complain that they don’t work on anything the players actually want and instead work on fluff? How asinine is that?

The truth is they don’t spend any time on wvw as there is no wvw dev team. If they listened to the player base they would remove Deserted BL and revert to an Alpine until a new map fit for purpose was ready (after thorough testing during development, not ‘hey here’s a new map all finished, test it and no matter what you say it’s what you’re getting’).

Constantly defending the complete lack of any real Anet effort doesn’t make you look very intelligent, it just looks like you’re white knighting whilst not really beign involved in the game mode.

The facts speak for themselves- fractals, raids, spvp all got major updates or new areas recently and spvp got meta achievements. Wvw is still waiting for realistic achievement tracks 4 years later. One total fail of a map which looked like it fell off the pve map designer’s table and wasn’t tested by real players in development at all, and now no sign at all of ever getting another map.

Players complained about movement challenges to a map, and anet has done major changes twice now. They complained about bloodlust and got it.

There’s no pleasing some people.

I wouldn’t be upset if there were more achievements (pvp has about twice as many AP last time I looked), but at the end of the day we’re getting a fairly steady stream of incremental improvements. It’s not as sexy as a big flashy update, but if you look at the big picture, a lot has changed in the last year.

If you do not play WvW you obviously have no clue why most seem unhappy. I do appreciate Anet trying to make things better. I am trying to stay positive but it does seem that most of the changes to WvW are merely superficial. Although I do like some of the changes to the Red BL. And being able to use the portable provisioner on the run is kinda nice when you need siege or food. I can only hope that Anet keeps striving to better WvW.

The play style has changed so much that it is mostly huge zerg vs huge zerg. And more casters than melee too. But maybe that is simply due to the fact that newer players like casters and feel more comfortable in the back line? Either way I hope someday they can make it like it once was, when WvW was the best part of the game!

We voted to keep desert bl before the promised changes, I think it warrants a new vote now that they didn’t change it the way people liked.
Basically last change, all they did was slightly buff defending on that map with the shrine changes because the people who don’t own the keep and 3 shrines (and it’s super rare to own all 3 shrines before arriving to the location), can’t even move faster…. So they fixed nothing about the map being too big and all the towers just being there…. offering nothing…
Sure bloodlust was great change, but it doesn’t make the map better.
Its already annoying having only 2 borders to play on but then you have t3 keeps with +800 stat buffs, increased siege hp and cheesy tactivators like ewp that make cataing the wall for 30 min pointless in 20 seconds, cant really blame people for quitting the game mode when all enemy does is hop with eb blob to def (because its near impossible to lose inside your own keep against non-guildblobs) and then they go back eb… then you start over for 30 min.

Hesacon.8735:

Players complained about movement challenges to a map, and anet has done major changes twice now. They complained about bloodlust and got it.

I’m rather curious who all these mysterious people are who complained about bloodlust. My server has been almost exclusively red for the past couple of months and I’ve never seen anyone in team, map or guild chat complaining about not being able to get bloodlust. I’m getting the suspicion that it’s once again just people doing it for the dailies and not anyone actually involved in wvw. Don’t pretend we should be flying the flag for this absurdly minor addition that really should have been there months ago.

Looking at the latest patch:

- Point changes about which opinions are divided (to say the least).
- Tonic changes that a lot of people resent.
- Desert border changes that (once again) don’t change the inherent problems of the map such as size and chokes.
- Portable provisioner change.
- Mastery changes that a lot of people won’t even notice
- WvW portal changes.

I’m not saying I am unhappy with it all. In fact, I really like the provisioner change. However, only half of these are pure wvw changes and not just scraps from pvp/pve changes, half of these have met with mixed reception, half of these are unnoticed by many wvw players and none of these have any major positive impact on wvw as a game mode.

Yes, I’m gonna keep complaining about getting the leftovers year after year. I paid for this game, just as the pvp/pve people did.

The differences between the way the polls go – and Anet did say they checked WvW play time, and the results were the same when segmented by play time in WvW – and many of the very vocal people here – would seem to imply that there are is a decent population of WvW players that do not agree with a vocal group of forum posters.

Just because someone ends up playing on Deserted BL doesn’t mean they like it. Personally I hate the place, but I still spend time there with my guildies when we fancy some pvd or when we’re trying to drag the enemy blob off our BL and back to their own.

The old argument of ‘silent majority’ when no other argument works is being dragged out again by those who try and defend Deserted…

Maybe if Anet did a poll of ‘should we remove Deserted BL permanently and replace it with the promised new map within the next six month after extensive player involvement in the testing process throughout’ we’d see what the true opinion is, weighted against number of hours spent in wvw so people who just log in for ten minutes for dailies don’t get the same weight of vote as those who actually play the mode.

They manage to have guilds help during testing and design of raids…

DevilishLyx.2340:

The problem is that it’s not stuff we want or even asked for! And the most important thing is that none of the updates improve or fix any of the problems in WvW! So spending time of the DBL is a waste of time cos only a minority even like the map, the majority would rather see it gone and replaced with another proper WvW BL.

Following your logic that they should only please the majority, it means they should just forget WvW exist and please the PvE community which is the real majority.

No, wait…

WvWvW development is little more than an afterthought to PVE, Raids and PvP. It appears no amount of complaining, cajoling, begging or threats will make Anet put enough resources on it to make any appreciable difference.

Enjoy it for what it is and hope the next realm vs realm game can put it all together.

I like how DBL has polled way above 50% every time, but people still say the majority dislike it.

Sviel.7493:

I like how DBL has polled way above 50% every time, but people still say the majority dislike it.

Probably because a majority of those 50% will still refuse to play on it even if they voted to keep it.

Either way you really dont even need to bring in percentages to know the facts. Just look at the kill statistics. Desert has nowhere near the activity of any given alpine border (which in turn will be nowhere near EB).

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

I like how DBL has polled way above 50% every time, but people still say the majority dislike it.

Probably because a majority of those 50% will still refuse to play on it even if they voted to keep it.

Either way you really dont even need to bring in percentages to know the facts. Just look at the kill statistics. Desert has nowhere near the activity of any given alpine border (which in turn will be nowhere near EB).

This. Each week people vote on which map they would like to play on and the Desert Borderlands consistently has the lowest activity (kills/deaths) of any map, by a considerable margin. That is the vote that should really count.

I like the desert borderland as a getaway from alpine borderland. A map doesn’t need to be pinacle or anything to be viable. We have just enjoyed for so long the amazing ABL that everything that falls short is called trash. Variety is a good option to have and I hope they do continue to work on the DBL.

Justine.6351:

I like the desert borderland as a getaway from alpine borderland. A map doesn’t need to be pinacle or anything to be viable. We have just enjoyed for so long the amazing ABL that everything that falls short is called trash. Variety is a good option to have and I hope they do continue to work on the DBL.

This.

It also has to be considered if DBL went away, no resources would be put into future maps. As much as I love wvw, if it were exactly the same each week I’d quickly get bored.

Adamarc.7463:

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

I like how DBL has polled way above 50% every time, but people still say the majority dislike it.

Probably because a majority of those 50% will still refuse to play on it even if they voted to keep it.

Either way you really dont even need to bring in percentages to know the facts. Just look at the kill statistics. Desert has nowhere near the activity of any given alpine border (which in turn will be nowhere near EB).

This. Each week people vote on which map they would like to play on and the Desert Borderlands consistently has the lowest activity (kills/deaths) of any map, by a considerable margin. That is the vote that should really count.

This. Enough said. Where are those voters voting to keep DB? Plain simple those voters were pve redditors. Statistics speak for itself. No amount of white knighting can cover your ‘silent majority’ false fact into reality.

If DB is to become viable, they need a complete ‘WvW Overhaul’ that map i.e reducing the size of the map, towers are strategically placed across the map. I’m talking about MAJOR overhaul, not tiny improvements like bloodlust and jumping pads that are making the experience redundant because then Alpine doesn’t need jumping pads, it just proves DB is a huge unnecessary map to begin with. No amount of tiny improvements can pull back the WvW players (backed by map statistics) to DB.

And no amount of ‘change of taste’ or ‘refreshing change’ from Alpine map silly excuses to cover the tiny amount of players playing in DB.

But oh yes it is just going to be another shattered dream for WvW to become great again. No seasons etc all said nope by Anet, in reality there is no WvW team at the moment, that is the open secret judged by the snail pace development of WvW compared to other modes.

I have to be honest, I liked DB originally, and I liked with some of the changes they made…. UNTIL NOW. The ruins/bloodlust is stupid and needs to go. So now you put the stupid ruins n the middle of Desert BL as well? What a waste of time! Sorry to the bloodlust lovers out there, but it really does not help the game play. Give us something for us that like a different tactical style… like UNDERWATER AREA.

See I hated when they took out the water zone in the alpine BL’s because it took away the only decent zone for underwater WVWing. Just because a bunch of folks can’t play there “meta build” underwater (you have to use different tactics OMgosh!). You know that’s why so many don’t like desert BL either… cus they cant think out of there tiny box. Desert offers a different tactical style and setting. It’s not designed for the lazy Zerg vs Zerg press 1 style of fighting. It takes thinking differently, and using the terrain in interesting ways.

So sorry Anet, I feel you are dumbing down the wvw to feed the brainless zergfesters, and not the smaller more tactical wvwing groups. Some of us like “different” and interesting terrain to play with. Not everyone wants to play in big boring open see the enemy a mile away zerg fights. I just feel sorry for those that cant think outside there own box to learn how to have fun in Desert BL without calling for there mama’s.

I can’t for the life of me figure out why Anet would be so confused about what a wvw player wants, I mean it’s not like we’ve been wishy washy with our requests :-p

Then: More zergs / MORE people to fight
Now: LESS zergs please / My guilds bag flew away….

Then: More Open field EPIC battles, less hiding behind walls and trebbing
Now: Rearrage DBL so we can treb Earth from NWT

Then: Give us a new map, ABL is boring, no one plays there
Now: Give us a new map, DBL is boring, no one plays there

HazyDaisy.4107:

I can’t for the life of me figure out why Anet would be so confused about what a wvw player wants, I mean it’s not like we’ve been wishy washy with our requests :-p

Then: More zergs / MORE people to fight
Now: LESS zergs please / My guilds bag flew away….

Then: More Open field EPIC battles, less hiding behind walls and trebbing
Now: Rearrage DBL so we can treb Earth from NWT

Then: Give us a new map, ABL is boring, no one plays there
Now: Give us a new map, DBL is boring, no one plays there

Just because they attemped to give a new map doesn’t make it good. I, for one, would welcome a new map, just not one that has such catastrophic negatives as the desert one. Oddly, I would love desert border if we could use gliders in it, because its clearly designed with those in mind.

Arenanet has a history of trying to fix something in the most negative way possible. Just look over at the new “leather farm” and how well that is going at the moment for fixing the leather shortage issues. The intention is good but the execution is so bad that it makes the situation worse.

That’s often why the best thing they can do is actually remove the content they put in and I, for one, am endlessly frustrated that this should be the case. Cant we just get it right the first time?

I hate the DBL – always have, always will – there’s no way this map can be fixed.

@chronometria: Is there really a leather shortage? If so only for t6, right? I doubt anyone will ever farm the centaurs – it’s much easier to run in circles in the silverwastes or do a multi loot auric basin. Anyway, that could have purpose as there’s that much loot in this game that selling nearly anything isn’t worth is as no one needs it – so we’re in a massive deflation which will probably go on forever.
But yeah, you’re right, anet often goes about problems in the worst way imaginable, that’s why I’m rather afraid of any new upcoming patch – it usually gets worse.