Guild Wars 2

Yes we prefer them to the current ones.
But they are still 3 year old maps which have become stagnant.
Bringing those back will again just be a temporary measure to keep whats left here for just a little longer.

I want new WvW maps, not new EOTM maps!

Bringing back the old maps will not fix any of the problems that they had before, but it will at least give us back a fun wvw map.

I find it very strange that so many people claim alpine became “stagnant” due to being the same old map for 3 years, when an absolutely crushing majority of the players still choose EB over desert – the same EB we have had for 3 years.

People doesnt like the new maps, well there are a few that does but major doesnt. Accept fact.

people dont like change but complain about the same old thing all the time. This can be shown with any subject. It is a lose lose for Anet, so i think they did a good job and should continue to update and develop

MasterGuruu.8345:

people dont like change but complain about the same old thing all the time. This can be shown with any subject. It is a lose lose for Anet, so i think they did a good job and should continue to update and develop

There is a difference between people actively playing WvW while complaining about glitches, lag, bugs, imbalance issues etc., and people NOT playing WvW and complaining.

The latter is where we stand today. The new maps are just not being played.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Yes we prefer them to the current ones.
But they are still 3 year old maps which have become stagnant.
Bringing those back will again just be a temporary measure to keep whats left here for just a little longer.

I want new WvW maps, not new EOTM maps!

You got new maps. And they’re are the kind of maps Anet likes to make now. This new BL was not a one-time mistake: from the old BL bloodlust area to EotM to the new BL, it’s been a natural progression of busier and busier maps, with more and more PvE and gimmicks.

You want another new map? It’s going to be more of the same. The best you can hope for are the old BLs because they sure aren’t going to be making any more maps like it.

Dawdler.8521:

I find it very strange that so many people claim alpine became “stagnant” due to being the same old map for 3 years, when an absolutely crushing majority of the players still choose EB over desert – the same EB we have had for 3 years.

That isn’t any stranger than people wanting back a map that was barely queued when compared to EB.

Typical old WvW night on Alpine:
- Oh green hasn’t been attacked. Let’s go there since EB is queued.
- Let’s flip this camp.
- Man, this is empty. Let’kitten this tower and see if anyone comes for some fights.
- Let’s grab all the camps then work on Bay.
- Oh look there’s a single defender. We’ve finally been scouted.
- Hey we got outer down. kitten , the scout threw a siege disabler on our rams.
- Oh hey look they brought their entire EB map queue to kick us out.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Yes we prefer them to the current ones.
But they are still 3 year old maps which have become stagnant.
Bringing those back will again just be a temporary measure to keep whats left here for just a little longer.

I want new WvW maps, not new EOTM maps!

So you agree that Anet should replace EB asap, as it’s clearly the oldest map? /s

the new map its fine, problem is the gimmicks implemented, they are “forced content” to hide the staleness of the themepark mmo’s, creating “fake-virtual” dificulties.

If Anet disabled the weird boons on WvW BL and added “good tools” when owning the towers could be totally diferent.

By the other side we have players that want spam 1 to win maps and hide back in tower when pushed back and call that a fight, it is harder to run on this new bl so they avoid it.

What about the people who absolutely loved Alpine BL? I’m one of those… Hell I would take a snowy map any time over an arid desert (aesthetically speaking). And yes I’m a Canadian that love snow <3. As for the mechanics of the Desert borderland VS Alpine… For me it’s an easy choice.

My thoughts on the current map situation.

List of changes that seems to be welcomed from the threads I’ve read

(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark. Maybe the duration of the sentry scouting players is slightly too long, small reduction of that debuff could be a good improvement (feel free to share your thoughts on that point).

(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.

(3) The fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.

Here is a list of things that could have potential, but in their current form they are not welcomed in WvW from what I’ve read

(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… Here I think that simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so that yaks count! Yaks are useless now. This will also bring back the supply management that many defenders loved to take care of. Should I start the waypoint upgrade now or wait for the supply depot to fill up a little more in case this structure get attacked and we need the supply to defend? Spamming map chat asking for people to grab supplies elsewhere since the structure is about to get into an upgrade phase and such (maybe it did bring some unhappy moment when siege troll appeared, but the upside were well worth the downside of the change). Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Bay/Hills waypoint are back now, a good start on that aspect!

Things that I’ve read that are truly disliked in the other threads

(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.

(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.

(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.

(4) Reset on saturday night… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.

(5) Guild upgrades being locked behind a PVE farm fest and high guild level of guild hall + big gold per use of the guild buffs.

(6) The new event in the Desert borderland map, at the moment it is not receiving much positive feedback. This event could of been great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point (like a capture point from pvp but scaled in size for WvW) could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environment. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. At least the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reach 0, the canon is yours. Also, a in game message should be given on all 4 maps prior to the event. But even then… maybe no event at all would be better?

(7) Barricades in Desert borderland map… Why even make them? They seems to only serve the purpose of stopping solo roamers from going around in the map as we used to do back in the days. It take ages to kill if you are a roaming group and will only be worth killing it if you are in a zerg… Another small irritating thing that I’ve found while trying to roam once more in this new borderland….
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be a good way to solve the problems with the current state of WvW. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).

The Deserted map is abominable and hardly anyone even in T1 goes to them. At least the Alpine maps attracted a large portion of the population away from EBG. While it might be a step backward, it is a giant leap forward from where we are today. Bring Alpine Back!

Imo they should put back the old maps whilst they rework the new one. Waiting for them to do so will take to long and more players will leave.
Having the old map back and then have a long talk with their players about how to fix the new maps and what can be removed and what should be kept would really solve a lot of issues and they have time to work on it whilst we play the old maps waiting for the reworked one to come.

saturn.4810:

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Yes we prefer them to the current ones.
But they are still 3 year old maps which have become stagnant.
Bringing those back will again just be a temporary measure to keep whats left here for just a little longer.

I want new WvW maps, not new EOTM maps!

So you agree that Anet should replace EB asap, as it’s clearly the oldest map? /s

Technically we are supposed to get the old maps back after being tweaked.
Technically we are supposed to have map rotations
Technically we are supposed to have more than 1 map in order to have a rotation.
Technically we are supposed to have a rotation to prevent any one map from becoming stagnant.

So yes, even EB needs replacing, but after this disaster, replacing EB with a EOTM style map will most likely kill WvW for good!

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

You mean PvE?

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

people do not like new maps because they cant hide asap into tower, from a fail atack the nearby keep…

But they wont admit it. >:], still i dont blame them, bigger aoe cluster wins, overall it is a balance problem since release that comes where stability was to strong to where it means nothing and aoe spam gets the job done and fast.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

replacing EB with a EOTM style map will most likely kill WvW for good!

No doubt about that. If they have an EB replacement in the works, they’d best delete it right now before wasting any more time on it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Buy Some Apples.6390:

replacing EB with a EOTM style map will most likely kill WvW for good!

No doubt about that. If they have an EB replacement in the works, they’d best delete it right now before wasting any more time on it.

There goes the major WvW overhaul.

New maps are garbage. No fun whatsoever. Old maps still great.

Yes, new smaller, flatter maps that focus on putting players together to fight with less or no NPC interaction would be an improvement over the old or the new. In the meantime while they make those however, since new maps take forever and a day to make, they should put the old ones back just to not have a Q on EB 24/7 and allow people somewhere else to go until the problem gets resolved. As it is no one wants to go on the new maps at all and would rather sit in LA until their Q pops it is so bad.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

You mean PvE?

Exactly. The non-human interaction, to be more accurate.

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

No, People do not like the new maps OR the new mechanics in the new maps. They want smaller, flatter maps that promote more PVP and less wasting time trying to " get to a fight" small maps that push combat closer together = more action during the time you play and less time wasted getting to it.

Phantom.5389:

snip

Yaks aren’t useless, they lower the time for the next upgrade by 5 mins if they reach the objective.

The Sentries are probably nice but might need a slight nerf, like range nerf or duration nerf.

The notifications shouldn’t be in my field of view on a spot where I usually place my AoE as I’m usually not standing around idle in wvw.

The third part of your list is pretty much what I agree on.

But it would be great if these changes were made bit by bit so we can see how the map improves with each change and if more changes are needed.
A lot of stuff is still bugged so bug fixes would be important for that as well.

lil devils x.6071:

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

No, People do not like the new maps OR the new mechanics in the new maps. They want smaller, flatter maps that promote more PVP and less wasting time trying to " get to a fight" small maps that push combat closer together = more action during the time you play and less time wasted getting to it.

That is why guilds roam in the southside of the map, where there is plenty of what you described: flat and open space, easily reachable from all spawns. 90% the fights I had with my guild happened on the south part of the map.

That is why nobody plays the map but during prime time.

Frenk.5917:

lil devils x.6071:

Frenk.5917:

People like the new maps.

People do not like the mechanics in the new maps.

Please, get it right.

No, People do not like the new maps OR the new mechanics in the new maps. They want smaller, flatter maps that promote more PVP and less wasting time trying to " get to a fight" small maps that push combat closer together = more action during the time you play and less time wasted getting to it.

That is why guilds roam in the southside of the map, where there is plenty of what you described: flat and open space, easily reachable from all spawns. 90% the fights I had with my guild happened on the south part of the map.

That is why nobody plays the map but during prime time.

The way it is spread out is why it takes the other teams forever to get there, not easily reachable from all spawns.. most of the time they spend running to " get to the fight" which is lame as hell. Everyone is supposed to just sit there with their heads up their kitten waiting for the other team to show up? Map is much too big for the amount of players they allow on a map at a time.

lil devils x.6071:

The way it is spread out is why it takes the other teams forever to get there, not easily reachable from all spawns..

Correct me if I’m wrong, but with free waypoints @ keeps even north spawn has an easy time getting to the south side of the map. East and West spawns are like 1m away or something, I guess?

They would do better at this stage deleting the new BL maps and just throwing in one EB map to replace the 3 BL, so we’d have a total of 2 wvw maps that are copies of EB. then people could spread out over the two maps and yet have plenty of roaming space as well as good large scale fights and 3 ways.

Anything would be better than the Deserted BL maps.

Chaba.5410:

Dawdler.8521:

I find it very strange that so many people claim alpine became “stagnant” due to being the same old map for 3 years, when an absolutely crushing majority of the players still choose EB over desert – the same EB we have had for 3 years.

That isn’t any stranger than people wanting back a map that was barely queued when compared to EB.

Typical old WvW night on Alpine:
- Oh green hasn’t been attacked. Let’s go there since EB is queued.
- Let’s flip this camp.
- Man, this is empty. Let’kitten this tower and see if anyone comes for some fights.
- Let’s grab all the camps then work on Bay.
- Oh look there’s a single defender. We’ve finally been scouted.
- Hey we got outer down. kitten , the scout threw a siege disabler on our rams.
- Oh hey look they brought their entire EB map queue to kick us out.

Pretty much nailed it. I can say that is how the old BL’s have been for a long time now. I was starting to think I was in my own little world and was the only person that was seeing it this way..

Frenk.5917:

lil devils x.6071:

The way it is spread out is why it takes the other teams forever to get there, not easily reachable from all spawns..

Correct me if I’m wrong, but with free waypoints @ keeps even north spawn has an easy time getting to the south side of the map. East and West spawns are like 1m away or something, I guess?

That entirely depends on what is going on the map as to who controls them, and whether or not it is contested. When we were ticking 390 not holding any of our own towers on EB .. it takes the enemy all day to get to us no matter what map we were on…Even if we tell Pugs to let something go so the enemy can WP to us, it isn’t like they will. LOL

Notsoperky.2348:

They would do better at this stage deleting the new BL maps and just throwing in one EB map to replace the 3 BL, so we’d have a total of 2 wvw maps that are copies of EB. then people could spread out over the two maps and yet have plenty of roaming space as well as good large scale fights and 3 ways.

Anything would be better than the Deserted BL maps.

I would rather have 2 EB’s than any of the BL maps… Just make more EB’s however many is needed. Change the scenery a bit and YAY they have a winner. Now of course, in t1 , 2 EB’s would never be enough you would have to have more BL to accommodate the number of people who play, but just make more maps like EB to make the players happier.. ( which I had mentioned in these forums b4 they ever made these maps and was ignored).

Chaba.5410:

Dawdler.8521:

I find it very strange that so many people claim alpine became “stagnant” due to being the same old map for 3 years, when an absolutely crushing majority of the players still choose EB over desert – the same EB we have had for 3 years.

That isn’t any stranger than people wanting back a map that was barely queued when compared to EB.

Typical old WvW night on Alpine:
- Oh green hasn’t been attacked. Let’s go there since EB is queued.
- Let’s flip this camp.
- Man, this is empty. Let’kitten this tower and see if anyone comes for some fights.
- Let’s grab all the camps then work on Bay.
- Oh look there’s a single defender. We’ve finally been scouted.
- Hey we got outer down. kitten , the scout threw a siege disabler on our rams.
- Oh hey look they brought their entire EB map queue to kick us out.

That doesn’t happen in the desert bls anymore though. It used to be a nice bait for enemy zergs to get off EB to fight in borderlands, but no one cares about defending anymore because the keeps will get automatically upgraded anyway

Huttunen.8309:

Chaba.5410:

Dawdler.8521:

I find it very strange that so many people claim alpine became “stagnant” due to being the same old map for 3 years, when an absolutely crushing majority of the players still choose EB over desert – the same EB we have had for 3 years.

That isn’t any stranger than people wanting back a map that was barely queued when compared to EB.

Typical old WvW night on Alpine:
- Oh green hasn’t been attacked. Let’s go there since EB is queued.
- Let’s flip this camp.
- Man, this is empty. Let’kitten this tower and see if anyone comes for some fights.
- Let’s grab all the camps then work on Bay.
- Oh look there’s a single defender. We’ve finally been scouted.
- Hey we got outer down. kitten , the scout threw a siege disabler on our rams.
- Oh hey look they brought their entire EB map queue to kick us out.

That doesn’t happen in the desert bls anymore though. It used to be a nice bait for enemy zergs to get off EB to fight in borderlands, but no one cares about defending anymore because the keeps will get automatically upgraded anyway

Yes, so basically all those solo scouts that upgraded everything are now unemployed replaced by bots…
(South Park “They Took Our Jobs”)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

Why bother defending when the game plays itself now?

lil devils x.6071:

Notsoperky.2348:

They would do better at this stage deleting the new BL maps and just throwing in one EB map to replace the 3 BL, so we’d have a total of 2 wvw maps that are copies of EB. then people could spread out over the two maps and yet have plenty of roaming space as well as good large scale fights and 3 ways.

Anything would be better than the Deserted BL maps.

I would rather have 2 EB’s than any of the BL maps… Just make more EB’s however many is needed. Change the scenery a bit and YAY they have a winner. Now of course, in t1 , 2 EB’s would never be enough you would have to have more BL to accommodate the number of people who play, but just make more maps like EB to make the players happier.. ( which I had mentioned in these forums b4 they ever made these maps and was ignored).

At the moment 2 EB’s would be more than enough for most EU matchups..might be a small queue on each at primetime, that’s what EOTM is for.

If it isn’t enough and both are queued by more than one side, then you could open up a series of special fight maps that only last 1 hour, count towards the score and are more geared towards fights, with even numbers allowed to enter and maybe one tower each, two camps each – sort of like a gvg map from Guild Wars but slightly bigger. Hell, remove the camps and tower and have a ‘Guild Lord’ and make it three way.

Lack of queues and Anet clamouring to make some WvW updates would point to this not going down well with the overall majority of the WvW playerbase.

Notsoperky.2348:

lil devils x.6071:

Notsoperky.2348:

They would do better at this stage deleting the new BL maps and just throwing in one EB map to replace the 3 BL, so we’d have a total of 2 wvw maps that are copies of EB. then people could spread out over the two maps and yet have plenty of roaming space as well as good large scale fights and 3 ways.

Anything would be better than the Deserted BL maps.

I would rather have 2 EB’s than any of the BL maps… Just make more EB’s however many is needed. Change the scenery a bit and YAY they have a winner. Now of course, in t1 , 2 EB’s would never be enough you would have to have more BL to accommodate the number of people who play, but just make more maps like EB to make the players happier.. ( which I had mentioned in these forums b4 they ever made these maps and was ignored).

At the moment 2 EB’s would be more than enough for most EU matchups..might be a small queue on each at primetime, that’s what EOTM is for.

If it isn’t enough and both are queued by more than one side, then you could open up a series of special fight maps that only last 1 hour, count towards the score and are more geared towards fights, with even numbers allowed to enter and maybe one tower each, two camps each – sort of like a gvg map from Guild Wars but slightly bigger. Hell, remove the camps and tower and have a ‘Guild Lord’ and make it three way.

I like the idea of temporary maps, and have suggested such in the past. though I would go as far as to make them just more EBs in play at once, but for a limited time only during busy hours for set time periods. Make them a part of wvw rather than EoTM BS maps.. people who like WvW may not enjoy playing in EoTM at all and in our case, we can have Q the entire time they have to play with all 4 maps full, making so they never get to play wvw anymore during the time they can play nightly, so that would not be fair. to players who paid the same for the game but never get to play a certain game mode due to map limitations. But we are in a T1 NA server, so we would require more space in play at once than most servers. so they could downscale it for lower tiers to accommodate as well.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Yes we prefer them to the current ones.
But they are still 3 year old maps which have become stagnant.
Bringing those back will again just be a temporary measure to keep whats left here for just a little longer.

I want new WvW maps, not new EOTM maps!

People didn’t want new maps. They wanted new things added to the old maps. Don’t need a whole new map to add fun stuff.

For example; yak runners (god bless their souls) had been asking for changed to yaks for years, because protecting them was impossible if someone wanted to kill them, and there was no fun or real reward in doing so. But protecting them was supposed to be a part of the whole WvW package, and some people really wanted to do it for some reason. And if ANet had done it right, they would have been a point of contention!

Now that yaks are near worthless because they aren’t needed for upgrades, they get buffed. Why even do it now? It is a slap in the face of all yak herders! Those poor lovable bastids upgraded our towers faster, helped with tower fortification/repair, and a lot of other things. Now the only important things they did are pretty much automatic, and now is when they choose to upgrade the yaks. When it’s not even needed. And they didn’t even do a good job of it, the scumbags. It still isn’t rewarding; it still isn’t a major point of contention and it definitely isn’t a fun part of WvW,

Chemical Rush.2569, well new map was always welcome, players were just not expecting weird mechanics to it and pit castles, players were expecting a evolution not a downgrade of the game model, the new map could be fixed easilly but GW2 is heavilly gimmick based game so probably will never get that fixed.
Still what needs to be changed is how WvW works, and then the maps.