Guild Wars 2

You can actually get into Citadels with any class, it’s extremely easy.

The thing to keep in mind is that they can’t do anything to you, you’re invulnerable in there, all they can do is down your merchants or something (who respawn anyway.)

Remember, if they’re dicking around in your Citadel, they’re not actually helping anywhere else, so why bother chasing them?

MrHaze.3690:

Remember, if they’re dicking around in your Citadel, they’re not actually helping anywhere else, so why bother chasing them?

unless they control 100% of all border lands and EB. which is the case in the ioj – yb – mag server.

this makes the entire battle grounds including the safe area unplayble

Try repeating that, but play a violin in the backgorund…

I agree with people being kitten off about the damage of Backstab, I agree with people complaining about the stealth capacity of the Pistol/Dagger thief.

But what bothers me is that people complain about EVERYTHING a thief does. Like Haze says, what the hell were they doing to you that you needed to make a longass post about it? Were they decimating you? Destroying your keep maybe? They were just killing NPCs that have almost no effect on your performance as a server. They were messing around and you took the bait and came here to whine, enjoy!

Them stealthing away was pretty annoying but even if they didn’t stealth then they’d die, WP, come back.

The problem here isn’t stealth its the matchup… Maguuma currently holds all point except for 2 camps at the moment.

Hey, need I mention that people in your invul they cant do any damage to you lol. Just kill them.

“All we did was suicide”.

rubber.5324:

The main point is: Thief and their stealth ability, gives them unfair advantage (In my opinion as the receiving end) to not die(free to engage/disengage at will). As suggested by the screen shots.

Agree. Anet should revisit this thief mechanic as there is no counter for this skill (throwing random AOE or attack randomly is not counter; this is not happen in other MMORPG). It can be done by nerfing, making revealed debuff longer (if the thief attacked before stealth), or make an item (consumable (sensor or flare)) to give revealed debuff to the thief and make some NPC (supervisor, keep lord, upgraded scout guard, tower lord, SM lord) can detect stealthy (but not giving revealed debuff to thief).

deviller.9135:

rubber.5324:

The main point is: Thief and their stealth ability, gives them unfair advantage (In my opinion as the receiving end) to not die(free to engage/disengage at will). As suggested by the screen shots.

Agree. Anet should revisit this thief mechanic as there is no counter for this skill (throwing random AOE or attack randomly is not counter; this is not happen in other MMORPG). It can be done by nerfing, making revealed debuff longer (if the thief attacked before stealth), or make an item (consumable (sensor or flare)) to give revealed debuff to the thief and make some NPC (supervisor, keep lord, upgraded scout guard, tower lord, SM lord) can detect stealthy (but not giving revealed debuff to thief).

Why don’t you just knock them out of the shelter before it completes?
Make an item? lol that’s like saying lets make an item so we can sense which Mesmer is the real one!

LMAO, instead of asking for a change in game mechanics, figure out a way to counter it yourself. Plenty of people have.

And how is throwing AoE on the ground not a counter? You know where they are trying to stealth. It’s not random, its smart placement of your AoE.

So just so we’re clear, this has nothing to do with getting into the spawn, you just tried to dress up a stealth whine thread as something prettier?

Last night was the first time I saw a thief that was good at stealth. I seriously thought he was hacking it was so fast and everywhere. There were at least 10 people fighting a group from the other team and this one little thief— well it was crazy. There was seriously no way to kill him because he was there for maybe a second hit you for a good chunk of your health and by the time you dodged or whatever to not dye you could not even target him because he was gone. Even when he was on someone else by the time I had him targeted he was gone before my attack landed.

I’ve made the same point before, highlighting the fact that ArenaNet considered stealth twice before in the first game and abandoned it both times after reaching the conclusion that it’s overpowered as a mechanic (in GW1 beta, Ranger had a stealth stat, and Shadowstepping was developed for Assassins in Factions as a viable alternative).

But you’ll get a lot of noise on the forums from players defending the mechanic.
Deep down, everyone knows it’s overpowered to the point of being broken, but that’s why they defend it. They don’t want their most powerful tool taken away.

Combining both shadowstepping and stealth to create the Thief profession was one of the worst decisions I’ve seen ArenaNet make. I can only assume that those people who actively avoided implementing it in the first game must no longer work for the company.

Anet has already put forward there stance on this. Too many thieves being killed by AoE damage, so bye bye aoe damage.

It’s just Maguuma, they won’t stay in there too long. I mean, they can’t build flame rams in there so why would they?

Kerithlan.1659:

It’s just Maguuma, they won’t stay in there too long. I mean, they can’t build flame rams in there so why would they?

Eminence.3728:

Why don’t you just knock them out of the shelter before it completes?
Make an item? lol that’s like saying lets make an item so we can sense which Mesmer is the real one!

LMAO, instead of asking for a change in game mechanics, figure out a way to counter it yourself. Plenty of people have.

And how is throwing AoE on the ground not a counter? You know where they are trying to stealth. It’s not random, its smart placement of your AoE.

Mesmer clone is not a stealth. You can know a real mesmer easily as it can be seen (all this clone is a stupid NPC which just do 1 – 2 type of attack) and usually the real one is the one in the back. In addition this clone is far from perfect, it does not copy original mesmer stat/buff (which mean if these clone unbuffed, you know this is clone or if you see mesmer with upleveled or 100% map completeion, its the real one).

An item only giving revealed debuff, which mean thief (or any class which is stealthed) still in the stealth but he can be seen for limited time and limited area. This is not change game mechanic (as revealed status has been there, they just need to make an item with this mechanic (they have done it with agony debuff which is I believe adding/changing the game mechanic itself) but it gives the game more strategy (and of course more gold sinking). (I think this must be done because this game does not even have any mechanic to counter stealth directly except throwing “smart” AoE/attack in unlimited movement environment).

Your argument is also invalid, first thief has much more way to stealth himself (not just shadow refuge). Second, you know thief will use stealth, throw your AoE there. Again your argument invalid. Its working if thief does not move or stupid enough to move faster. Smart placement AoE for thief is only an advertisement. Looks good but never happen (as placement of AoE still have more than 50% to miss).

Cain.9724:

Kerithlan.1659:

It’s just Maguuma, they won’t stay in there too long. I mean, they can’t build flame rams in there so why would they?

Oh snap! Enjoy your flame rams then IoJ.

deviller.9135:

rubber.5324:

The main point is: Thief and their stealth ability, gives them unfair advantage (In my opinion as the receiving end) to not die(free to engage/disengage at will). As suggested by the screen shots.

Agree. Anet should revisit this thief mechanic as there is no counter for this skill (throwing random AOE or attack randomly is not counter; this is not happen in other MMORPG). It can be done by nerfing, making revealed debuff longer (if the thief attacked before stealth), or make an item (consumable (sensor or flare)) to give revealed debuff to the thief and make some NPC (supervisor, keep lord, upgraded scout guard, tower lord, SM lord) can detect stealthy (but not giving revealed debuff to thief).

Not to mention that Anet thinks AOE is too strong and that single target damage classes need a buff.

If assassins had stealth in GW1 that would have been insanely overpowered. Anyways, ya it is getting out of hand. Stealth should be a mechanic that you use tactically, not spam at nearly every possible opportunity. Increasing the revealed time would fix the problem; that way thieves would have to make more tactical decisions of when to use it.

Thieves are actually pretty balanced, it’s stealth that is the problem. Any class that can stay invisible 50+% of the time is imbalanced. Any game mechanic which has no counter and can be used frequently will be impossible to balance without significant changes. It’s the reason why in GW1 paragon shouts and chants got nerfed, shadowsteps had long recharges, and that there are no skills in GW2 that affect recharge times.

Umm.

I have to ask, how are you unable to enjoy playing, while someone is in your spawn?
They do 0 damage to you in spawn.
All they can really do is die to guards, and such, or stand and dance with you or something. I mean it’d be pointless for them to attack because well in your spawn you take no damage.

haha I just figured out how to do this and ran to the enemy spawn. its much harder than I realised due to so many guards.

I can’t hurt anyone since youre invunerable but merchants which can be revived I believe. I was more interested in what happens when you run into the portal at the enemy spawn :P

If the NPC dies will it respawn? thats the only issue that could possibly be considered a exploit since you can’t do any other damage

This was posted back in november, wonder why they didn’t fix this sooner. We have dubbed this thief training :P

Phoenix.3416:

haha I just figured out how to do this and ran to the enemy spawn. its much harder than I realised due to so many guards.

I can’t hurt anyone since youre invunerable but merchants which can be revived I believe. I was more interested in what happens when you run into the portal at the enemy spawn :P

It takes you to Lion’s Arch or any of the Borderlands + Eternal. It puts you in your (correct) spawn location. Just in case you were wondering if you could invade another server’s Lion’s Arch or constantly portal between enemy spawn locations to quickly check if the party’s still banging.

Besetment.9187:

Phoenix.3416:

haha I just figured out how to do this and ran to the enemy spawn. its much harder than I realised due to so many guards.

I can’t hurt anyone since youre invunerable but merchants which can be revived I believe. I was more interested in what happens when you run into the portal at the enemy spawn :P

It takes you to Lion’s Arch or any of the Borderlands + Eternal. It puts you in your (correct) spawn location. Just in case you were wondering if you could invade another server’s Lion’s Arch or constantly portal between enemy spawn locations to quickly check if the party’s still banging.

If the NPC dies will it respawn? thats the only issue that could possibly be considered a exploit since you can’t do any other damage
This was posted back in november, wonder why they didn’t fix this sooner. We have dubbed this thief training :P

It would be interesting to see, if you can kill the Breakout Commander (Siegerazor) and if he can be rezzed or just respawns. How long is the respawn time? Because that could actually influence the flow of play, if you kill the enemy commander before he starts the breakout event and takes a couple of min to respawn.

Wanze.8410:

It would be interesting to see, if you can kill the Breakout Commander (Siegerazor) and if he can be rezzed or just respawns. How long is the respawn time? Because that could actually influence the flow of play, if you kill the enemy commander before he starts the breakout event and takes a couple of min to respawn.

ironically that could be a pretty interesting feature, if you could kill the breakout commander in an area where the defenders are invulnerable that would be impressive

Mungrul.9358:

I’ve made the same point before, highlighting the fact that ArenaNet considered stealth twice before in the first game and abandoned it both times after reaching the conclusion that it’s overpowered as a mechanic (in GW1 beta, Ranger had a stealth stat, and Shadowstepping was developed for Assassins in Factions as a viable alternative).

But you’ll get a lot of noise on the forums from players defending the mechanic.
Deep down, everyone knows it’s overpowered to the point of being broken, but that’s why they defend it. They don’t want their most powerful tool taken away.

Combining both shadowstepping and stealth to create the Thief profession was one of the worst decisions I’ve seen ArenaNet make. I can only assume that those people who actively avoided implementing it in the first game must no longer work for the company.

Thieves defend steath because their only other option is face tanking, and a lot of the more balanced builds (Such as Sword/Dagger, which has zero burst) require stealth to operate. And thieves are the very worst class in the game at face-tanking.

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Phoenix.3416:

If the NPC dies will it respawn? thats the only issue that could possibly be considered a exploit since you can’t do any other damage
This was posted back in november, wonder why they didn’t fix this sooner. We have dubbed this thief training :P

Yes npcs respawn (they respawn quickly too – like under a minute?). They can be ressurected by friendly players.

You can hurt Siegerazer but you would have to be some kind of god at this game to kill Siegerazer whilst not straying into Legendary Defender range (instant downed 1st shot, instant killed 2nd shot). Also you would have to avoid enemy players who are completely invulnerable in their own spawn area. It probably won’t happen.

rubber.5324:

RiKShaw.8795:

Them stealthing away was pretty annoying but even if they didn’t stealth then they’d die, WP, come back.

The problem here isn’t stealth its the matchup… Maguuma currently holds all point except for 2 camps at the moment.

My first point is:

They don’t die by stealthing in and out.

My second point is:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:

Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Some people said I am just whining, so be it. This is my first post and I don’t know how this can be classified as “whine” when it’s my first and only complaint.

I think that’s why the game has fears, pulls and knockbacks. I think they were merely trying to train yall to deal with thfs better. No harm

you’re playing mesmer and you’re complaining about another class, classic.

Eminence.3728:

Hey, need I mention that people in your invul they cant do any damage to you lol. Just kill them.

Have you actually tried this?

Finally saw an enemy in our spawn yesterday and thought the same thing. “Well I’ll just kill him”. It was like he wasn’t getting locked into combat though and his regen was off the charts. Took about 3 people to eventually kill him and he was basically just standing there, regenerating health at a crazy rate.

Possibly he was a hacker, of course, but it looked to me like something about the starter area was keeping him from being locked “in combat”.

In my opinion stealth would be fixed if they simply made thieves unstealth when they attacked and didnt allow stealth stomp. It should be an ambush and escape mechanic, not an active combat one.

Thieves would need to be completely rebuilt if they couldn’t stealth in combat.

rubber.5324:

The main point is: Thief and their stealth ability, gives them unfair advantage (In my opinion as the receiving end) to not die(free to engage/disengage at will). As suggested by the screen shots.

Completely agree, and the point about being able to engage and disengage is so important. In the open field a thief can chase down almost anyone and then escape from combat at any point. That is an unfair advantage.

or bunker (ele, guardian), and the fact that an entire group of players (and NPCs) can be trolled. At same time I missed the old days Kurzick vs Luxons where things like this don’t happen

the bunker warrior, who blocked the turtles, that was anoying!

Niim.9260:

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Mesmers are fun to fight against. You can see the skill it takes to use those skills effectively.
Thieves? Not so much. They either kill you to start or run off when you try and kill them.
I at least know that if a mesmer messes up I will take it down. Thieves just run off like kittens(self censored, cant believe that word isn’t censored) and come back seconds later.

They really need to re-look into stealth. Watching 10 guys run around trying find a thief that has stealthed is amusing. What do you do? group up for protection in case he pops out again?

Try to interrupt a stealthed thief who is stomping? how? you can’t even target him.

Try to slow him down so he can’t run away? how? he’s stealthed and can simply cleanse effects off him.

Thieves are in a place of their own at the moment. (and maybe D/D elementalists with their healing)

nothing new here, move along

I just cant believe they are fixing AoE before this.
I find it pretty ridiculous.

It’s an exploit. Report them. This has nothing to do with balance, as they are exploiting inside.

Thobek.1730:

Try to interrupt a stealthed thief who is stomping? how? you can’t even target him.

Use some form of AoE knockdown? There are plenty of them.

Heck many of the down skills that interrupt don’t even require a target (such as the warrior hammer throw).

Or just drop some AoEs on the downed player, most thieves will get rocked by the damage while trying to finish the stomp.

Pinko.2076:

Thieves would need to be completely rebuilt if they couldn’t stealth in combat.

Game developers could just shorten the time thief players can stealth, but nooo they did something completely opposite! lol

Thobek.1730:

They really need to re-look into stealth. Watching 10 guys run around trying find a thief that has stealthed is amusing. What do you do? group up for protection in case he pops out again?

Try to interrupt a stealthed thief who is stomping? how? you can’t even target him.

Try to slow him down so he can’t run away? how? he’s stealthed and can simply cleanse effects off him.

Thieves are in a place of their own at the moment. (and maybe D/D elementalists with their healing)

Thieves say AoE, but most AoE is way too slow. By the time you’ve cast it the thief is no longer in the area, you’ve just wasted CDs and the thief is circling around to get you again.

The only class I’ve found so far that can throw enough AoE fast enough to actually get a thief is the necro with marks and wells. I’ve been having a lot of success with this.

D/D ele… not so much. Working on it.

Can any class port 100 people into a tower? Mesmers must be OP.

Comeone guys, enough whining about other class. All in all, its kitten well balance, noone needs a nerf.

Rangers, necrosm engineers could certainly use a little buff, but no class needs a nerf.

you guys are terrible… I swear most of you havent tried a thief. To get perma stealth you need to put on D/P which is a lower damage combonation compared to the rest as well as putting at least 2 of your utility skills to be stealth skills

Stealth lasts 3 seconds without traits and 4 with. The only way I can stealth more is by putting down a Shadows refuge and staying in an aoe that you can see and spam into.

Stealth isn’t op at all when you learn how to defend against it. Most thieves ive killed were terrible at it too, on my level 41 thief ive killed level 80s because I know how stealth works so can counter it.

Less whining more strategy.

attacking an enemy spawn does nothing for your team as you cant hurt anything so no point complaining about that either

Causic.3798:

Niim.9260:

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Mesmers are fun to fight against. You can see the skill it takes to use those skills effectively.
Thieves? Not so much. They either kill you to start or run off when you try and kill them.
I at least know that if a mesmer messes up I will take it down. Thieves just run off like kittens(self censored, cant believe that word isn’t censored) and come back seconds later.

I play a guardian and a necro and i have no issues taking out thieves. Def a lrn2play issue here.

And if your class isnt particalry strong against a certain class, guess what? back off and stop running around solo. Some classes are better at soloing than others, and some are better with groups around.

Rinzler.8072:

Causic.3798:

Niim.9260:

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Mesmers are fun to fight against. You can see the skill it takes to use those skills effectively.
Thieves? Not so much. They either kill you to start or run off when you try and kill them.
I at least know that if a mesmer messes up I will take it down. Thieves just run off like kittens(self censored, cant believe that word isn’t censored) and come back seconds later.

I play a guardian and a necro and i have no issues taking out thieves. Def a lrn2play issue here.

And if your class isnt particalry strong against a certain class, guess what? back off and stop running around solo. Some classes are better at soloing than others, and some are better with groups around.

Yeah definitely true, as a Warrior I always run in groups of at least 2 since usually thieves come one at a time. Not saying I get to kill them, but we get to where were going