Guild Wars 2

Before you guys cry, “Go back home carebear,” hear me out for a moment. I don’t care about your PvP. I don’t care about your WvW. If I could leave it alone, I would.

Not long ago, I was stuck at 92% map completion for the world. The other 8% was stuff in WvW. I spent a lot of frustrating time in queues, dying to people who take themselves too seriously, and generally getting steamrolled by about 20 people. I’m not resentful for getting steamrolled, it’s part of PvP and WvW.

What I am resentful for is that the achievement of getting 100% world completion, which is primarily a PvE accomplishment (note: 92% PvE to be precise), requires me to be in a scenario which I do not enjoy, and frustrates the hell out of me to complete. 8% of the game ruins the other 92% for me. I know ArenaNet promised to make games less about griefing, and more about the fun. This is where I really came to question some of their design decisions.

Now I hear your cry “WvW is part of the map!” Well, not the normal world map. It’s an entirely separate map in the mists, and the achievement also ignores sPvP points of interest as well. It’s completely inconsistent.

Now, it’s interesting to point out that tomorrow they reduce the ability of people to transfer worlds. Because guess how I resolved all my problems with WvW? Quickly transferring between worlds to ignore the issues caused by the world completion requirements — some areas my server was just never going to capture in a hundred years. Rather than waste countless hours trying to capture a point, I made it a matter of minutes. Abusing a feature of the game was my only respite to get around the abuse the game was giving me.

Similar problems arise as well under the “Explorer” achievement tab. Exploration is my favorite past time in any game, including GW2. To get all of its achievements require me to enter WvW, which I’m not entirely against. Sure I have to repeat the same jumping achievement 3 times against a bunch of a homicidal idiots, but whatever. What manages to get my goat though, is the absurdity of the obsidian sanctum. All 3 teams have entrances to this jumping puzzle at any given time (unless one server is dominating). Standard WvW practices apply inside this jumping puzzle (no surprise, I can hold my own). Problem is, the “defenders” in the jumping puzzle get massive advantages — traps that can kill people, and firing positions that make it impossible to pass/fight back.

ArenaNet, I ask you, what is your logic for qualifying an achievement as “explorer” when it’s truly not an exploration achievement, but a WvW/PvP achievement? It’s frustrating to people such as myself who enjoy the exploration, but are OCD about completion. I don’t know how many times I’ve wanted to shoot somebody in the face because of the irritation of the whole charade. Please consider making some kind of change in the future on the issue (I have no simple answers, so I leave that to you).

its because you gain benefits from WvW in your own little PvE endeavours, the buffs to crafting, health, healing, exp.

so both the worlds ARE tied together and are one in the same, just different zones if you will.

currently the PvE on our server are getting 20% chance at critical crafting bonus just for playing on this server. and there are a lot of people that will transfer to top end servers that always win because they will get a lot of little bonuses for being on a winning server.

this game is a balance between PvE and PvP.

Vagrant.7206:

Before you guys cry, “Go back home carebear,” hear me out for a moment. I don’t care about your PvP. I don’t care about your WvW. If I could leave it alone, I would.

Not long ago, I was stuck at 92% map completion for the world. The other 8% was stuff in WvW. I spent a lot of frustrating time in queues, dying to people who take themselves too seriously, and generally getting steamrolled by about 20 people. I’m not resentful for getting steamrolled, it’s part of PvP and WvW.

What I am resentful for is that the achievement of getting 100% world completion, which is primarily a PvE accomplishment (note: 92% PvE to be precise), requires me to be in a scenario which I do not enjoy, and frustrates the hell out of me to complete. 8% of the game ruins the other 92% for me. I know ArenaNet promised to make games less about griefing, and more about the fun. This is where I really came to question some of their design decisions.

Now I hear your cry “WvW is part of the map!” Well, not the normal world map. It’s an entirely separate map in the mists, and the achievement also ignores sPvP points of interest as well. It’s completely inconsistent.

Now, it’s interesting to point out that tomorrow they reduce the ability of people to transfer worlds. Because guess how I resolved all my problems with WvW? Quickly transferring between worlds to ignore the issues caused by the world completion requirements — some areas my server was just never going to capture in a hundred years. Rather than waste countless hours trying to capture a point, I made it a matter of minutes. Abusing a feature of the game was my only respite to get around the abuse the game was giving me.

Similar problems arise as well under the “Explorer” achievement tab. Exploration is my favorite past time in any game, including GW2. To get all of its achievements require me to enter WvW, which I’m not entirely against. Sure I have to repeat the same jumping achievement 3 times against a bunch of a homicidal idiots, but whatever. What manages to get my goat though, is the absurdity of the obsidian sanctum. All 3 teams have entrances to this jumping puzzle at any given time (unless one server is dominating). Standard WvW practices apply inside this jumping puzzle (no surprise, I can hold my own). Problem is, the “defenders” in the jumping puzzle get massive advantages — traps that can kill people, and firing positions that make it impossible to pass/fight back.

ArenaNet, I ask you, what is your logic for qualifying an achievement as “explorer” when it’s truly not an exploration achievement, but a WvW/PvP achievement? It’s frustrating to people such as myself who enjoy the exploration, but are OCD about completion. I don’t know how many times I’ve wanted to shoot somebody in the face because of the irritation of the whole charade. Please consider making some kind of change in the future on the issue (I have no simple answers, so I leave that to you).

I am proud to be one of this group

I don’t understand the problem.

100% world completion means you have seen the entire game. Not just the parts you enjoy. The ENTIRE game.

You basically want a “Just The Parts I Like” achievement award. Sadly, Arenanet did not put that one in.

How come it is impossible to have a discussion on this forum without being overwhelmed by fanboys and holy defenders, who refuse to accept any suggestion and tell the OP to man up or get out?

I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can be opposed to removing WvW as part of World Completion; technically, it’s not even a part of the world, as it’s in the Mists. By that logic, sPvP and dungeons, which is actually in the world, should be required aswell.

All this does is lead to people flooding WvW queues to do non-PvP-related activities, which leads to higher queue times, more frustration, less people doing battles and more PvP’ers having to wait in 2+ hour queues.

Honestly, there is not a single argument one can put forward to defend the current situation, which is why, I guess, there’s only knee-jerk reactions in this thread about how the OP needs to go back to WoW, learn to play or not expect being fed with a silver spoon.

I actually agree with the OP, even though I think he’s insane for not loving WvW. WvW has high enough demand without wasting slots on people that don’t really want to be there, so let PvE players have an overflow WvW map or a WvW map with NPC opponents or whatever they want. Just give them anything they want if it reduces pressure on real WvW.

Well WvW needs to be done slowly. Its much better to play it an hour a week to just do the ones you can for your world.

It would probably be less painful if you just ran around wvw like everyone else and just did the points that are easy.

I see it as a way for people to get free siege gear during down times, or something to do for the winning server. In any case, the jumping puzzles are AMAZING!!

I have had a lot of fun learning them for the first time and repeating them every day. They are really well done and I applaud whoever had the idea and all those who designed them and I hope they continue with more in the future!!

I for one think the OP is right. I know a ton of PvEers are in the queue for WvW clogging things up for the map completion. Get rid of them and make everyone happy ANET.. its a win-win.

its because you gain benefits from WvW in your own little PvE endeavours, the buffs to crafting, health, healing, exp.
so both the worlds ARE tied together and are one in the same, just different zones if you will.
currently the PvE on our server are getting 20% chance at critical crafting bonus just for playing on this server. and there are a lot of people that will transfer to top end servers that always win because they will get a lot of little bonuses for being on a winning server.

That’s a weak association at best. That’s like saying the Omnomnomnomnomberry bars (because they provide advantages) should contribute to map completion.

It also ignores the fact that there are parts of the real world that don’t count towards the map completion title — such as dungeons. In addition sPvP’s points of interest don’t count. It’s inconsistent, and suggests a design flaw.

I don’t understand the problem.
100% world completion means you have seen the entire game. Not just the parts you enjoy. The ENTIRE game.

But it’s NOT the entire game. Dungeons are ignored. sPvP is ignored.

I actually agree with the OP, even though I think he’s insane for not loving WvW. WvW has high enough demand without wasting slots on people that don’t really want to be there, so let PvE players have an overflow WvW map or a WvW map with NPC opponents or whatever they want. Just give them anything they want if it reduces pressure on real WvW.

Heh, what can I say? I just don’t enjoy it.

But you’re absolutely right. I’m taking up valuable slots to do my exploration, which could be used by somebody who actually wants to partake in WvW. I wish I wasn’t — it took me hours several times to get in (Henge of Denravi, you know). But if I want completion and exploration achievements, I got to do it.

Where I wouldn’t want to see any of the vistas, poi, or skill points taken out of WvW, I don’t see any reason to include them in the world completion achievement. However, I also don’t see any problem if Anet wants people to experience all of the world, including WvW for the achievement. Afterall, it is only an achievement and not required by any means.

Agreed that WvW should have it’s own completion achievement separate from PvE. I understand why they added vistas, POI and Skill challenges in WvW but to make it mandatory for the World Map completion seems like a bad decision. I didn’t have much trouble in WvW getting all the points but that was because my server was completely dominate. If your server isn’t very good at WvW then it would become a major issue as the only way to get most of the vistas and some of the POI by taking keeps and the garrisons.

Why did they have to include WvW areas in this achievement? >.< Admittedly, I got excited working towards that goal of 100% but recently discovered that the WvW areas are included. I had assumed earlier that they weren’t.

Now it seems this achievement will remain unfinished for me for quite awhile if not for the rest of the game’s life for me. I have little interest in PvP. It can’t hold my attention for too long and in many ways frustrates me. The lag can get horrible, which admittedly is probably the biggest factor for me. How can I help when an army just suddenly appears out of nowhere as you’re running towards an area to reinforce it?

Two out of three servers in our current group is getting steamrolled by the third (which holds like 90-100% of the map at all times of the day). And please don’t tell me the solution is to server transfer just to get the POIs, Vistas, and SPs. I very much doubt Anet intended the completion of this achievement to be done that way.

spalt.6938:

Two out of three servers in our current group is getting steamrolled by the third (which holds like 90-100% of the map at all times of the day). And please don’t tell me the solution is to server transfer just to get the POIs, Vistas, and SPs. I very much doubt Anet intended the completion of this achievement to be done that way.

Ironically, that’s what I ended up doing to get the 100% completion. Now that they are reducing the time period with which you can transfer servers, it makes it much harder to use that method.

Bumping this for truth. There are too many negatives and not enough positives to warrant these points in WvW as part of the achievement.

Negative:
PvE players take up PvP player spots in line.
PvE players in WvW don’t contribute to the purpose of WvW.
Players on low-pop server will have an extremely difficult time completing this – to the point that they may NEVER be able to complete it without moving to another server – which only exasperates the problem further.

Positive
You might convert PvE players into PvP players (who will have to stand inline behind other PvE players to PvP as noted above.

Vicious, frustrating circle.

Godslayer.1203:

Bumping this for truth. There are too many negatives and not enough positives to warrant these points in WvW as part of the achievement.

Negative:
PvE players take up PvP player spots in line.
PvE players in WvW don’t contribute to the purpose of WvW.
Players on low-pop server will have an extremely difficult time completing this – to the point that they may NEVER be able to complete it without moving to another server – which only exasperates the problem further.

Positive
You might convert PvE players into PvP players (who will have to stand inline behind other PvE players to PvP as noted above.

Vicious, frustrating circle.

Good points! I would rather not have PvE players taking up WvW spots just to get some map completion however small that number is or not.

Yeah some people say its not a lot of people tying up the queue, but when I went into the jumping puzzle I could probably count at least 20 for each side – so that’s 40 players not participating in WvW.

I can only estimate, but if there are that many for the puzzle, there may just as well be that many additionally running around the map. That’s almost 100 people that really don’t need (or probably want) to be there.

I agree with the OP. There should be separate completions.

I actually enjoy WvW, but I would feel a little dumb trying to manipulate 20+ people to help me take out a tower just so —> I <-- can get a point of interest.

I’ve been pretty fortunate and only have 2 points left, but I know of several servers who may be months away from even the possibility of world completion.

So much for encouraging people to join lower pop servers and spread out.

Godslayer.1203:

Bumping this for truth. There are too many negatives and not enough positives to warrant these points in WvW as part of the achievement.

Negative:
PvE players take up PvP player spots in line.
PvE players in WvW don’t contribute to the purpose of WvW.
Players on low-pop server will have an extremely difficult time completing this – to the point that they may NEVER be able to complete it without moving to another server – which only exasperates the problem further.

Positive
You might convert PvE players into PvP players (who will have to stand inline behind other PvE players to PvP as noted above.

Vicious, frustrating circle.

I am a positive. I was frustrated knowing I would have to go, so rather than get too far, I decided to use the free transfers to see if I couldn’t get it done. It took me 3 days, but I did it, using the HoD/SVI/E? battle. I’m currently sitting on SBI, started on SoS.

Funny thing happened on the way to the forum…

I love it! I was terrified at first, but I think I’m starting to learn how it works, and when all else fails, I just follow orders. I repaired a keep door from 10-100% after helping turn the attackers away without anyone telling me after everyone left with the supplies there. I’ve helped escort supplies, taken depots with people, it was great fun.

I started my quest for map exploration queuing and then nabbing what I could and leaving, and it ended with me queuing and staying for hours helping out, while I waited to que to other areas.

Now that I’m done, I want more.

I’m on SBI now, but to be fair, I’ll go elsewhere. I should go back to SoS, my real (first) home? Or maybe find another home. Not really sure. I hope they have good organized people like those servers I was on the past few days.

So without that, I would have never tried. Maybe one person converted isn’t worth it, but I’m glad I went.

Agree with OP. You should not be forced into a PvP zone just to get an “Exploration” achievement.

I’m happy that more and more people are realizing this situation.

There’s also another problem with making WvW part of map completion. For high ranked servers who basically only play one another, the fact that server starting positions are determined by ranking means that it’s near impossible to get some of the vistas/poi since capturing those keeps/towers are near impossible.

I made a thread about it here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Starting-Positions-and-100-Map-Completion/first#post280862

I agree with the OP

I feel sorry for the people who bought this game for the PvE.

I can’t figure out why the stupidly difficult jumping puzzles have a vista at their end point. I have arthritis and literally can’t do about half of the puzzles. Map completion is a distant dream for me.

Trent.3256:

Where I wouldn’t want to see any of the vistas, poi, or skill points taken out of WvW, I don’t see any reason to include them in the world completion achievement. However, I also don’t see any problem if Anet wants people to experience all of the world, including WvW for the achievement. Afterall, it is only an achievement and not required by any means.

It may not be required, but when you spend a month exploring the other 92% of the world, and then get screwed because you can’t explore all of WvW, it becomes one of those things that pisses you off so much you want to throw something.

Even if you’re an avid WvWer, there’s some locations that are just extremely difficult to get if your server constantly gets the same position (As described in the link to another topic someone gave earlier in this thread). Necessary World Transferring to get these locations is stupid, and horrible game design. It shouldn’t be required, and as I said, when you hit 92%, or hell let’s say 99% because of some remaining PoI you just can’t get to on your server, it becomes necessary. 99% is an ugly number to look at for a completion thing.

You should foresaw that, and did the WvW explorable part 1st, when there were still 24h matches.

Massacrul.2016:

You should foresaw that, and did the WvW explorable part 1st, when there were still 24h matches.

Okay…except what about a new character? What if you just made a character and want to 100% now? That’s not an answer to the problem.

I don’t see a problem here, at all but w/e.

WvW is a part of the world/game, that have impact on PvE, and i see no reason at all to remove it from “PvE” achievements. Oh, and maybe you want to remove it from monthly achievement too? Don’t be ridiculous.

Massacrul.2016:

I don’t see a problem here, at all but w/e.

WvW is a part of the world/game, that have impact on PvE, and i see no reason at all to remove it from “PvE” achievements. Oh, and maybe you want to remove it from monthly achievement too? Don’t be ridiculous.

Read the thread, then. There are several reasons given. No reason to repeat what other people have said before.

Can I get 100% world achievement for just the WvW area then please? I do not enjoy mindlessly grinding out hearts, so I shouldn’t have to.

Is that the right line of QQ to match yours, granted it is not as wordy, but I think I got the gist.

PvP=epicness thats it

Sort of agree. Jumping puzzles are a different matter, as you get blueprints from them… those should be kept as part of the PvP experience.

Vistas, skill points and POI’s though? Not really needed UNLESS the rewards for WvW map completion were blueprints along with WvW stuff like a badge or two. It just gives gear which doesn’t really help me all that much in WvW. Maybe have them be a separate completion achievement for WvW only? This would leave the normal 100% world completion for PvE people achievable without stepping foot in PvP.

Let’s be honest, it’s going to take you a long time to get 100% exploration on WvW maps if you are a low pop server… when matching changes to 2 weeks it may actually take you months.

Niim.9260:

Can I get 100% world achievement for just the WvW area then please? I do not enjoy mindlessly grinding out hearts, so I shouldn’t have to.

Is that the right line of QQ to match yours, granted it is not as wordy, but I think I got the gist.

It has nothing to do with "QQ"ing. It has to do with the fact that it forces people who do not want to WvW to WvW, doing nothing but waste space and give free kills to the enemies. Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, there are a lot people who do not want to PvP or WvW in GW2. The game has a very fleshed out and huge PvE section, and a lot of people enjoy it.

But, since you want it, I’m going to grab every PvEr I know, and we’re all going to join the Borderlands areas, and we’re all going to sit around and just go “We’re waiting for us to start winning so that we can get all the PoIs/Skill Points/Vistas.” Would that make you happy? Enjoy losing horribly because too many people who don’t give a crap about WvW are wasting time and queue so that they can get 100% Completion.

I don’t understand how this is such a hard concept, and I don’t understand how people can instantly be branded “QQing” and all the other things you’ve branded PvE players because they don’t want to play something they don’t enjoy just so that they can finish something they started way back when their character was Level 2 (Which, by the way, has nothing to do with WvW in the first place).

I agree completely with the OP. As a dedicated PvE player in a small guild of like-minded players, I am appalled that WvW maps count toward world completion, when PvP and dungeons do not – this is a contradiction. It is not true that the WvW experience is part of the game – it is one aspect of the game only – some players prefer it to other game formats, and good for them. My view is that Anet put the majority of effort into PvE, so that it going to be the main game.
WvW is more like a side-game, for several reasons; it takes place on a separate set of maps, it requires a whole different approach to gameplay – which is very expensive when it costs 2 gold a time to alter your traits, and as access to the WvW map is then restricted to those parts your world holds (which is usually very little) it is impossible to complete mapping on my server without wasting all my time & gold recruiting for WvW.
It is also not practical to simply change servers to enable you to complete the mapping, mainly because that would then restrict players from participating in events with their own guild members until they return to their own world – which is only possible without cost once a day.
I have been a dedicated Guild Wars player for years now, but this is ridiculous – I’ve spent hours and several gold on repairs trying to complete the mapping with one character, who I never intended to play WvW. I normally enjoy the struggle of chasing a title, but this is not a challenge, it’s completely unbalanced, and makes me consider quitting GW2 for games that can be completed.

Necronic.8134:

which is very expensive when it costs 2 gold a time to alter your traits

It costs 3 silver and 50 copper to alter your traits at level 80. You do realize there is a “I’d like to retrain” option separate from the manuals, right?

I think this guy sums it up well. I don’t enjoy a system that encourages players to do things for themselves in an environment that has a population cap and can diminish game play for other WvW players.

Godslayer.1203:

Bumping this for truth. There are too many negatives and not enough positives to warrant these points in WvW as part of the achievement.

Negative:
PvE players take up PvP player spots in line.
PvE players in WvW don’t contribute to the purpose of WvW.
Players on low-pop server will have an extremely difficult time completing this – to the point that they may NEVER be able to complete it without moving to another server – which only exasperates the problem further.

Positive
You might convert PvE players into PvP players (who will have to stand inline behind other PvE players to PvP as noted above.

Vicious, frustrating circle.

I sympathize. I’m never going to get one of those stars (because I can’t do the jumping vistas) so I know how it feels to have progress blocked due to something you think is stupid and shouldn’t be part of the game anyway.

I’ve always felt there their should be some encouragement for playing all aspects of the game, rather than a few though. A slightly cooler skin, 1% more damage, a dye, a faster grind because there are 3 kinds of dailies, etc. There should be some balance between encouraging people to get out of their comfort zone and explore and forcing people to grind something they hate.

Jumping puzzles are not needed to be done, ever. Exploration, IS needed for the Legendary weapons & excluding this & the mats involved to acquire such a thing (meaning, you can slowly build up the mats over months & months – 1500 ancient wood anyone?) its more of a self accomplishment & “thing” to get done, which I meself fall under.

However, while I can understand the frustration someone may feel for not being able to do or get something they want, I think the bigger picture was missed here. The game is called; da da da daaaaaa – Guild WARS 2. Yes, it has a great character storyline & yes it has nice dungeons & yes the world is beautiful to immerse yourself in & if you so chose, not even look at the WvWvW. This game though was designed for WvWvW, period. The other stuff supplements that, not the other way around where PvP type stuff supplemented it, like Rift for instance.

You can not seriously get jilted that part of a mass exploration completion, takes you gasp into the 4 massive maps, of which the warring between servers takes place & is what makes this game, what it is.

Your server will not always suck, you will at times be able to run with a zerg that the opposing teams will flee from & slowly accrue the missing points. With a little dedication, exploring & understanding these maps, you will get your achievement & possibly, even enjoy some of the WvWvW that came with it too.