Guild Wars 2

I cannot stand the way MMO’s introduce carrots in the form of so called content these days. WvW in and of itself has not changed, but the introduction of these achievements has turned me off big time. I really wish ANet would introduce true content changes instead of tossing carrots around for us to chase.

Seems this is the only formula MMO’s know these days, carrots, carrots, and more carrots. But the real problem is there are too many MMO players out there who are willing to chase them.

I have been thinking that maybe they want to get all their new reward/grouping systems, overflow maps, etc ready and finished before they can start optimizing the game..
So much was missing since release they are catching up with all that stuff first to make sure they have a solid system where they can build on.. (hopes)

Then maybe they will start rolling out real content.
I, for one, am curious about the overflow map. I just keep my expectations a bit lower now.

I stopped chasing carrots but maybe we should stop beating a dead horse with the stick too.. even though it can be fun at times..

(NB: No horsies were harmed while writing this post)

Carrots? lol. Many people in my server already finished the meta by ignoring it and doing wvw the same way they always have. I honestly see no harm in achievements for wvw. These achievements make it so people who only wvw can get their free gems and gold now.

" carrots " do not change the format in which we play, though given it does bring in people will new motives- regardless the mechanics remain the same.

Also new content is just as bad as a carrot, it isn’t magically better because it is new, it is still an amusement attraction and something digital to eat up your time. So please continue your martyrdom if it makes you feel better.

Monadproxy.3489:

Carrots? lol. Many people in my server already finished the meta by ignoring it and doing wvw the same way they always have. I honestly see no harm in achievements for wvw. These achievements make it so people who only wvw can get their free gems and gold now.

I’ve done this as well. I don’t focus on earning all the achievements because constantly thinking about that carrot is what ruins the fun of a game. When you only play a game not for enjoyment and only for the achievements, how is that fun at all?

i agree with that, thats why most of my debates tend to appreciate the game but feel frustrated vs competitive pvp – when I think of the game as dodgeball, it’s fun …you go into wvw to a fast paced game …..if it’s an unbalanced match …no big deal you just leave and do something else till the match resets.

If you want to compete and take the value of the score seriously well, that’s when the fun leaves and it becomes frustrating because there is no real way to keep a balance. too many variables to consider skill a deciding factor in a win.

Kill the score in wvw , and it will be a fun new pvp adventure in a pve area.

Add the score, and you are insulting serious strategists.

mako.2431:

I cannot stand the way MMO’s introduce carrots in the form of so called content these days. WvW in and of itself has not changed, but the introduction of these achievements has turned me off big time. I really wish ANet would introduce true content changes instead of tossing carrots around for us to chase.

Seems this is the only formula MMO’s know these days, carrots, carrots, and more carrots. But the real problem is there are too many MMO players out there who are willing to chase them.

“You make what you perceive.”

Basically, you’re making your own carrot chase by seeing things as one. Why not just WvW and enjoy it for what it is: Fights against other players using ground fights and siege warfare.

The achievements will come to those that just play the game normally. You’ve got many weeks to obtain them while just completing the content at a fairly moderate pace.

Nothing requires you to just keep trying to “chase the carrot” except your own mentality.

I’m 7/15 in these achievments without even trying….

Hmmm… more ways for players to enjoy a game… doesn’t seem like a long term poor strategy to have options.

Incoming 10 player parties. They have been testing it in the Halloween release.

10 player parties would be awesome!

Siphaed.9235:

mako.2431:

I cannot stand the way MMO’s introduce carrots in the form of so called content these days. WvW in and of itself has not changed, but the introduction of these achievements has turned me off big time. I really wish ANet would introduce true content changes instead of tossing carrots around for us to chase.

Seems this is the only formula MMO’s know these days, carrots, carrots, and more carrots. But the real problem is there are too many MMO players out there who are willing to chase them.

“You make what you perceive.”

Basically, you’re making your own carrot chase by seeing things as one. Why not just WvW and enjoy it for what it is: Fights against other players using ground fights and siege warfare.

The achievements will come to those that just play the game normally. You’ve got many weeks to obtain them while just completing the content at a fairly moderate pace.

Nothing requires you to just keep trying to “chase the carrot” except your own mentality.

You should have finished reading and no stopped after carrot.

I used to enjoy PvE till the living word Achievements destroyed it, because the content beyond that was completed in the first day the only driving force was to complete the achievements for the rewards so don’t fool yourself saying otherwise.

So I turned to WvW and made it my new home and no longer cared about the PvE sise of things, I haven’t done any achievement driven content since. The whole scarlet dungeon isn’t content it’s achievements content going to the same place doing the same thing in the same area nothing new, I was in WvW the whole time.

These Season one achievements were not planed out and what is coming Areanets bad habit it was poorly introduced. It is ruining WvW for me and taking the last part of enjoyment from the game I like.

People didn’t transfer to our sever they transferred from our sever. It’s on going joke in WvW that all the PvEers only come to WvW when they knew we didn’t face top tier severs so they could come in and get their map completion and then they never returned and Q’s times where not even as bad as they are now.

Now it’s 3+ hours just to get in and not even be in there with people I have played with for months because they can’t get in. Even with GvG’ers Q times where not this bad. The only thing that is driving this influx is the carrot = achievements once these people have their carrot we will not see them for the next 6 weeks. So Anet added another problem to WvW.

WvW’ers like me put time, effort, gold, badges, karma in to WvW. And to lose a full T3 tower,keep,castle to people only there for the carrot hurt’s those who put time in to it day after day after day.

Like last night Carrot hunters drained supply from SMC to fix the walls which stalled the upgrade to T2 walls, then they drained the keeps supply to fix SMC walls. This create a huge problem since no one now ticks siege us who spend money lose money when it despawns and have to drop more siege to defend and there is no supply to build siege because carrot hunters want to complete their achievements.

Achievements that don’t contribute to WvW
Big Spender
Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire
Sapphire Leaper in the Mists
Guard Slayer
Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
Master of Ruins
Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
Obsidian Leaper in the Mists
Emerald Leaper in the Mists
Garnet Leaper in the Mists

People who put time, effort, gold, badges, karma in to WvW day after day, week after week no matter the match up even when facing two tier one severs should get the rewards and not carrot hunters. They need to make requirements time based and make those who want it chose. For us WvW we chose WvW.

Sorry for the wall of text, I didn’t plan for it to be this long but there is just so much wrong and frustration.

Zehnchu.4985:

Siphaed.9235:

mako.2431:

I cannot stand the way MMO’s introduce carrots in the form of so called content these days. WvW in and of itself has not changed, but the introduction of these achievements has turned me off big time. I really wish ANet would introduce true content changes instead of tossing carrots around for us to chase.

Seems this is the only formula MMO’s know these days, carrots, carrots, and more carrots. But the real problem is there are too many MMO players out there who are willing to chase them.

“You make what you perceive.”

Basically, you’re making your own carrot chase by seeing things as one. Why not just WvW and enjoy it for what it is: Fights against other players using ground fights and siege warfare.

The achievements will come to those that just play the game normally. You’ve got many weeks to obtain them while just completing the content at a fairly moderate pace.

Nothing requires you to just keep trying to “chase the carrot” except your own mentality.

You should have finished reading and no stopped after carrot.

I used to enjoy PvE till the living word Achievements destroyed it, because the content beyond that was completed in the first day the only driving force was to complete the achievements for the rewards so don’t fool yourself saying otherwise.

So I turned to WvW and made it my new home and no longer cared about the PvE sise of things, I haven’t done any achievement driven content since. The whole scarlet dungeon isn’t content it’s achievements content going to the same place doing the same thing in the same area nothing new, I was in WvW the whole time.

These Season one achievements were not planed out and what is coming Areanets bad habit it was poorly introduced. It is ruining WvW for me and taking the last part of enjoyment from the game I like.

People didn’t transfer to our sever they transferred from our sever. It’s on going joke in WvW that all the PvEers only come to WvW when they knew we didn’t face top tier severs so they could come in and get their map completion and then they never returned and Q’s times where not even as bad as they are now.

Now it’s 3+ hours just to get in and not even be in there with people I have played with for months because they can’t get in. Even with GvG’ers Q times where not this bad. The only thing that is driving this influx is the carrot = achievements once these people have their carrot we will not see them for the next 6 weeks. So Anet added another problem to WvW.

WvW’ers like me put time, effort, gold, badges, karma in to WvW. And to lose a full T3 tower,keep,castle to people only there for the carrot hurt’s those who put time in to it day after day after day.

Like last night Carrot hunters drained supply from SMC to fix the walls which stalled the upgrade to T2 walls, then they drained the keeps supply to fix SMC walls. This create a huge problem since no one now ticks siege us who spend money lose money when it despawns and have to drop more siege to defend and there is no supply to build siege because carrot hunters want to complete their achievements.

Achievements that don’t contribute to WvW
Big Spender
Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire
Sapphire Leaper in the Mists
Guard Slayer
Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
Master of Ruins
Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
Obsidian Leaper in the Mists
Emerald Leaper in the Mists
Garnet Leaper in the Mists

People who put time, effort, gold, badges, karma in to WvW day after day, week after week no matter the match up even when facing two tier one severs should get the rewards and not carrot hunters. They need to make requirements time based and make those who want it chose. For us WvW we chose WvW.

Sorry for the wall of text, I didn’t plan for it to be this long but there is just so much wrong and frustration.

I know that whenever anyone’s like “I’m going to buy something with my badges” I give them a stern rebuke “No, you mustn’t. That doesn’t contribute to WvW”.

styx.7294:

I know that whenever anyone’s like “I’m going to buy something with my badges” I give them a stern rebuke “No, you mustn’t. That doesn’t contribute to WvW”.

Where are the carrots for purchasing upgrade for camps, keeps and castles? oh those aren’t personal carrots.

Zehnchu.4985:

styx.7294:

I know that whenever anyone’s like “I’m going to buy something with my badges” I give them a stern rebuke “No, you mustn’t. That doesn’t contribute to WvW”.

Where are the carrots for purchasing upgrade for camps, keeps and castles? oh those aren’t personal carrots.

Not everyone on the server can buy even 1 camp upgrades.

Edit: I’m just poking fun. I think people are bein too humourless about the achievements (clearly guard slayer is just an attendance check) but I’m sure they could have been done better.

styx.7294:

Not everyone on the server can buy even 1 camp upgrades.

You mean to tell me they don’t earn silver and karma in WvW they can only earn badges? That is laughable excuse.

Zehnchu.4985:

styx.7294:

Not everyone on the server can buy even 1 camp upgrades.

You mean to tell me they don’t earn silver and karma in WvW they can only earn badges? That is laughable excuse.

I mean that you can upgrade camps only so often and there’s probably more players than that and especially since they’re clustered around prime time not everyone may have the chance to upgrade a camp, let alone do it something like 10 or 30 times (and upgrading a camp isn’t always desirable either).

And that’s why the carrots need to reflect people who WvW day in day out who have been there doing stuff for their sever who actually spend what they earned. I have no problem buying upgrades and I have been this whole week why because Kittens don’t care because it’s not a carrot.

i hate to break this to you but the has always been achievements for wvw they just took a really long time to get so you should never have wanted to play if that’s your excuse

Mooodster.3470:

i hate to break this to you but the has always been achievements for wvw they just took a really long time to get so you should never have wanted to play if that’s your excuse

Hey captain obvious, those ones didn’t bring a influx of carrot hunters now did it? Plus it’s not the driving force of why hardcore WvW play. There is a huge difference between “achievements” and “achievement driven” one would think you would know the difference.

When they added dailies and monthlies WvW and PvE, this did not cause an influx of trash everything went on like it has since launch. Then came “achievement driven content”.

In a way I feel the same as the OP. I WvW every day for several hrs. I am very happy to see new faces in WvW

BUT

I know/feel that when I am defending a keep, Stonemist or even a camp or tower, that I am working against my own server’s achievement seekers need to flip and reflip.

Each to their own, for myself, I am reducing my play time for the first few weeks of this league until the achievement seekers are pretty much done.

Good luck all, I am glad to see WvW populated.

This is the issue I face too elkirin – I feel that sometimes our different play styles conflict with one another, and we can’t all have fun at the same time.

While I agree that some of the achievements are really silly (doing each of the JPs, spending 250 badges, defense restorer) I feel that there needs to be some kind of easy slope into the harder ones to get (SM / Keep capping, merc camps). While we have so many newer players, season achievements lead us to question if the newer players are beneficial to the WvW effort.

To counter the carrot claim – the carrot exists for other players who may start playing WvW due to it, it doesn’t exist solely for WvW veterans. Also to counter the carrot claim – for once rewards can be gained in WvW exclusively so that hours in a BL to slowly recap and control is rewarded. And my last counter for the carrot claim – new players introduce more population which allows servers to start performing a bit better – this also allows for interesting new macro strategy with small team and havoc-zerg tactics.

To support the carrot claim I’ll simply use the clashing play styles examples I have given in the past:
Player A plays for PPT (points per tick), and captures active resources for which PPT is generated, but doesn’t necessarily think about the overall PPT spread, coverage, or strategic PPT capture necessary to win.
Player B plays to win and does PPT spread, coverage games, and strategic PPT capture in order to do so.
Player C plays to get fights and win those said fights.
Player D plays for achievements in WvW.
Player E who goes for the karma train.
When the condition is right, all 4 groups can be clashing, Player A wants to cap a t3 hills when Player B knows it will be better to cap 3 paper towers, with Player C wanting all the map’s manpower on him/her to wipe another zerg first, and player D who is wanting to catapult a t3 bay gate, using all the supply to do so from both north and NW camps, and Player E who just wants to cap stuff quickly without defending Garrison.

Before you call me biased for placing myself in Player B category, I’m not of that category, I’m a Player A kind of person. Player B makes a great winning commander, but may not satisfy players A C D or E. The issue is that player D was just added and there is so much more room for conflict between the 5 parties than there was for the 4 parties.

All play styles have their positive attributes – A will get temporary PPT which helps to raise morale in large militia groups, B will win the game in largely balanced games and helps to close gaps / make sure manpower is spent wisely, C allows large groups of people to capture objectives which would take too long for small teams to do also allowing for demoralization of forces they wipe, D provides additional manpower to the map, E is a momentum style capping which keeps things dynamic allowing for active play.

But for me. Achievements are doing what they are supposed to be doing – bring players in. Its the commanders who are in categories A-B-C-E who need to utilize the new players in category D.

mako.2431:

I cannot stand the way MMO’s introduce carrots in the form of so called content these days. WvW in and of itself has not changed, but the introduction of these achievements has turned me off big time. I really wish ANet would introduce true content changes instead of tossing carrots around for us to chase.

Seems this is the only formula MMO’s know these days, carrots, carrots, and more carrots. But the real problem is there are too many MMO players out there who are willing to chase them.

Then don’t follow the carrot. Weather the carrot was introduce or not if you played the way you’ve always has it shouldn’t matter. Sounds like you’re just another carrot chaser who got overwhelmed.

hahaha, just wait until the devs increase the ascended mat drops from WvW as they’ve promised to do.

That’ll really bring the mindless little mat/chieve zerglings into your game mode, eh?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

hahaha, just wait until the devs increase the ascended mat drops from WvW as they’ve promised to do.

That’ll really bring the mindless little mat/chieve zerglings into your game mode, eh?

Probably not in T1 servers, we don’t just give up towers/keeps/SMC for the sake of reclaiming it. Aside from the Karma train once the match is decided of course, but that’s a friday thing.

Zehnchu.4985:

Mooodster.3470:

i hate to break this to you but the has always been achievements for wvw they just took a really long time to get so you should never have wanted to play if that’s your excuse

Hey captain obvious, those ones didn’t bring a influx of carrot hunters now did it? Plus it’s not the driving force of why hardcore WvW play. There is a huge difference between “achievements” and “achievement driven” one would think you would know the difference.

When they added dailies and monthlies WvW and PvE, this did not cause an influx of trash everything went on like it has since launch. Then came “achievement driven content”.

this is one of them be careful what you ask for kinda things because if people wouldn’t have whined about those achievements that have always existed being hard to get…anet probably wouldn’t have added easy ones…..but im guessing the people who did the whining probably didn’t think it would bring as many people to wvw as it did….

well… “dedicated players” wanted carrots. Anet listen to them like they are a god. I was subscribed to alot of “dedicated players” on youtube, pure pve-ers who only this know about www “ohhh, if only was some reward to be bother to get there” they said that over and over again.

www was diferent before, was only exp and karma as reward, no fluff, no achivements (every achivement in www took like 80 years of 24/7 gaming, nonstop), no nothing.
www was play by only pvp-ers, or mostly pvp-ers. now, we got… a sad story

That´s what they did to WvW:

Introducing this WvW-Meta achievement together with the leagues was a big mistake in my opinion.

Just look at the scores: not one of all the servers which were rated as the highest in their league before will win it´s matchup this week – because they were flooded the most by achievement-hunters.

Like I do in anything I do in GW2,if I unlock an achievement then it is an afterthought.

I play WvW to kill other players and capture,defend buildings.

At least most of the achievements are pointing new players in the right direction,by playing objectives.

Current situation (achievements a.k.a. carrots):

• Player doesn’t like carrots ignores the carrots and enjoys the game.
• Player does like carrots follows the carrots and enjoys the game.

Your ideal world:

• Player doesn’t like carrots enjoys the game.
• Play does like carrots doesn’t enjoy the game.

If you don’t like the carrots then ignore them, I really fail to see the problem here. Just because there is a Mc Donalds down the street doesn’t mean I am forced to eat there and enjoy it. I have a brain and are able to make decisions such as “I don’t like XYZ and therefore I will avoid it.” With threads like these floating around I am starting to think this is a superpower though.