Guild Wars 2

But my much-beloved trebs need a bit of an adjustment.

For anyone who actually plays the new map as defense, you’ll quickly learn that white swords does not equal lost tower or keep. In fact it means you still have several minutes to respond because the wall and gate hp has been significanly increased.

For defenders, especially smaller crews, this is fantastic, and I truly hope they keep it this way.

However, and this is the part I feel slightly guilty about, if you spend any time defending, you also know, if you’re a good scout, that if you get there early enough, a single regular treb can keep out a 30-man zerg with five rams at the gate. So, in effect, a handful of defenders can thwart a big blob.

I LOVE this. No longer is it “white swords!” and the tower is gone a second later. But I feel guilty and don’t think it’s fair that one person, in effect, can hold off 30.

Treb damage needs to be toned down a bit. It should certainly be a viable defense if gotten to early, but it shouldn’t be able to fully stop a massive blob like it does now.

And I love my trebs. But I’m also interested in fair play.

As much as I like you, I disagree.
The poor attackers should run back to the camp, get some supply and build some catas which are a lot “meaner” than rams (bubble).

Edit: They could also build a counter treb.
Honestly: We’ve had so many great fights because we couldn’t just rush into a tower, why not keeping it like this?
Edit²: And a cannon destroys rams even faster, as well as trebs. Oil might be equally fast.

Gate and wall hp is significantly increased (at least in EB.. probably BLs also) because gate/wall upgrades are currently stacking on top of each other. If this ever gets fixed, gates and walls will be much weaker than they are now.

So Mr. Kuru, you’re saying I should delight, with glee, my ability to solo hold off a 30- blob?

Jana it my guilt complex. If it’s easy for me to do alone, it feels unfair.

Well, if they didn’t get in at one gate… there’s always plenty of walls to take down. If a zerg/blob really wants your tower/keep, then they’re going to get it… if they know what they’re doing.

Jayne.9251:

Jana are you here yet btw? Come find meeeeee!

Whenever you see

Josteinn: “gibberish, some numbers, rough percentage of something” in mapchat you know I’m there =)

If you single-handedly hold off a 30 man blob, they haven’t half a man of brains between them.

Jayne.9251:

So Mr. Kuru, you’re saying I should delight, with glee, my ability to solo hold off a 30- blob?

Jana it my guilt complex. If it’s easy for me to do alone, it feels unfair.

Yes, you should delight with glee… Because if they ever fix this upgrade-on-top-of-upgrade bug, walls and gates will melt much faster than they do now and you’ll be scrambling to hit those gathering nodes before they run you over.

Haha, I don’t even know where those nodes are.

Ok if you guys feel it’s fine, then I shall remain my mighty team of one. You shall not pass!

just build the ram not to close the gate, treb can’t destroy all the ram…
Build less ram, but add shield generator, they can block treb…
The time the keep get contested with 4 sups ram the gate can be around 60%… If they have a shield generator you have to destroy it first, because you treb will not be able to destroy all the ram… Then you need a good ac spot to destroy that shield without being killed…
And once the shield is destroyed you have to run to your treb… You will be able to shoot 1 or 2 time and the gate will open…

No, it’s not possible to push back 30+ guy with only 1 defenser… You can slow them down yes, but not push them back… Unless they want to run back…

Most attack with ram are easy to counter with the new wall and gates, but there is so many other way to attack, and the keep / tower are so big…

If the ennemy zerg want to go inside they can… Yes you can slow them down but that’s all… If your friendly zerg don’t join you, the structure will be lost…
And I’m ok with that, we should not be able to block forever ennemy zerg with 2 players inside. But now we can earn time, and that’s interesting. And I want to see how this will work without the 3 states of wall on top of each other…
And you know that you can’t destroy proxy cata at north palace wall ? Same for south inner ?
Then with a good ennemy commander, they just build the cata at the good spot, and you can’t do anything else that watching the wall going down..

Don’t ask anet to reduce HP on wall and gate, they can listen to you… As they always choose the worst thing that players ask…

Solo defending can be pretty solid. But if you manage to keep 30 off on you own, well then the defending isnt “overpowered” but their lack of knowledge how to siege and protect their siege is.

Sich.7103:

No, it’s not possible to push back 30+ guy with only 1 defenser… You can slow them down yes, but not push them back… Unless they want to run back…
.

Sich, lol, I swear.

Two times yesterday, massive Elona blob at gate with five rams. Me on treb at garri. They got the gate to 40% before I killed all the rams, and cowed them so they had no supply. After that they gave up and went to a tower instead.

With just me and one other person inside

I would NEVER ask them to reduce HP on gates and walls, I think that’s a fantastic change. I’m just saying it might be necessary to look at treb damage as a result of the HP change.

Rampart is very interesting to defend. The only keep that feel like a keep :p
But this blob have so many other way to attack you…
I have suffer the same attack on a tower, but the ennemy have build at least 2 ram out of range for the treb, and they use a shield generator who block a lot of my shoot… As I was alone they finaly get in.
But I really think that on this map attacking defended keep at the gate is just suicide…

Jayne.9251:

Two times yesterday, massive Elona blob at gate with five rams. Me on treb at garri. They got the gate to 40% before I killed all the rams, and cowed them so they had no supply. After that they gave up and went to a tower instead.

No offense but the offending server might be at fault as well.. just saying biting my tongue

Edit: But honestly on IoJ and sometimes on GH we never gave up -which was silly at times. 4 hours to get the blue keep gg!

As much as I wish I could blame this one on the new maps, I have to agree with the general consensus here. I’ve seen really good groups that have taken areas regardless of how many people and how much defensive siege was in there, because they did an excellent job of attacking it. And I’ve seen really bad groups that have failed when I was solo defending and just firing a single cart on them, because they did a very poor job of attacking it. Generally, if 1-2 people can successfully defend, after offensive siege has been built, against a “massive blob”, it’s a failure of attack strategy. Even on the old maps, each area had several different spots that could be attacked, from several different angles, and there’s even more spots and angles on the new maps. If one spot and one angle failed, they could have, and should have, tried one of the other options available. Or, better yet, since they were a blob, try multiple angles and spots at once. So that 1-2 people wouldn’t be able to cover all of them.

Jayne.9251:

Haha, I don’t even know where those nodes are.

Ok if you guys feel it’s fine, then I shall remain my mighty team of one. You shall not pass!

The nodes are next to the gate you should be defending with that treb.

I’ll assume that was sarcasm!

Killacam.2064:

Jayne.9251:

Haha, I don’t even know where those nodes are.

Ok if you guys feel it’s fine, then I shall remain my mighty team of one. You shall not pass!

The nodes are next to the gate you should be defending with that treb.

I’ll assume that was sarcasm!

Haha no. I guess I don’t pay attention to that stuff.

Ok Phantom, now I feel better. Thank you

lol, honestly tho, if you took the time to build a 120 supply defensive piece of siege, it should be able to defend and be counted upon. It is up to the attackers to figure a way around it. This, however, is how it should have always been. How many times have you rained siege on a group that just sit in it with no concern at all?

Trebs need to be toned down… how about no.

Defensively they are about the only thing that can keep rams directly off a gate that isn’t subject to a staff ele annihilation. Even then smart siege placement keeps the rams far enough back that they can damage the gate and stay out of treb range. They tend to force attackers to consider a more robust siege strategy which is exactly what siege is supposed to do.

Offensively they are incredibly slow damagers compared to catas. Toning them down would only make an already tedious process worse.

I actually do agree that this is a problem. T3 gates was a necessary buff to defending, but the fact that a single defender on a treb can hold off a 5-ram blitz is not healthy for the game, IMO.

Ideally I think this would be fixed by just not allowing damage to pass through gates (no need to adjust treb damage).

Yeah i think treb damage shouldn’t go through gates and walls. You can still treb away the enemy rams but you need to actually hit them.

You have a trebuchet and walls. They brought a battering ram and hand tools. Yes. You should absolutely be able to hold them off. The uselessness of protected siege on offense has been a big problem with WvW for a long time. That ram should only be a viable assault option if they’ve actuall managed to kill your defensive siege in the first place by building offensive siege

Running up to the gate should never be a viable strategy against a defended objective. It should be the last part of a push that starts with crippling the objective’s defenses to create an opening for foot troops

This is healthier for the game long term as it makes defensive fights much more about going outside the walls to slaughter offensive siege (with the exception of the people running defensive siege) than standing on a wall autoattacking zergs at a gate.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jayne.9251:

So Mr. Kuru, you’re saying I should delight, with glee, my ability to solo hold off a 30- blob?

Jana it my guilt complex. If it’s easy for me to do alone, it feels unfair.

Yes, you should delight with glee… Because if they ever fix this upgrade-on-top-of-upgrade bug, walls and gates will melt much faster than they do now and you’ll be scrambling to hit those gathering nodes before they run you over.

I’m not so sure that’s even a thing. As far as i can tell the walls on top of walls thing is just a graphical glitch and has nothing to do with actual wall hp

@ Jayne: BB found a counter. I have been able to hit with every third shot max.

Lol, Elona came in this morning before I had a chance to set up and took garri

I say good for them!

Yeah perhaps it’s because everything’s new that we still have to catch up on the offensive side. I guess time will tell.

P.S. I think I know how BB did that … good for them for figuring it out.

Jayne.9251:

P.S. I think I know how BB did that … good for them for figuring it out.

Yeah it’s that weird shield that came with the expansion.
I wasn’t too amused but klov was sandwiched at that point anyway so we hadn’t had a chance even if my treb had hit. That shield has a pretty low cooldown.

yes that shield, this is what I have explain before… If the ennemy build shield you can’t destroy the ram fast enough. You have to use AC on wall to destroy the shield first (shield generator is not protected from the buble).
But this take too much time… And then you fortified gate will be open…

I managed to destroy 2 rams , I think, but since they were ~60 they just build new ones. A Blob of 30 might still have been repelled – but maybe better ask some commanders where to put the rams to protect them from trebs – I think really far at the sides and in some distance is a good start.
I expect these shields to be nerfed some time in the future. Not because of my precious usual treb but because they are really powerful. No idea how hard it is to bypass them with a small group.

2 ac on the wall in the good spot to shoot the shield generator, and 1 or 2 treb behind the gate…. And it will be ok probably.
I have manage to destroy some shield generator against 30+ group, but we where 4 to defend.
Alone it’s close to impossible to do something. Even with the ac…. They are useless when you have only 1.

And it’s ok to not be able to defend alone.

Trebs would have needed few nerfs already a long time ago:

1. The cow ammo drains way too much supplies and poison cloud lasts too long time.
—> halve the amount

2. Treb deals too much damage considering its radius (420 radius AoE impact
—> maybe shrink the radius of impact to 300. That would make it also less effective through gates

No, trebs are fine as they are – heal against the supply drain and my cows didn’t go through the gate anyway, no idea whether or not that is intended.
Trebs for defense are only useful on gates or to get siege out which isn’t that easy as you often can’t see where the siege is, it takes multiple shots and they’re rather slow. They are also rather easy to get out with other siege. I rarely see it being used as an offensive weapon against players. If offensive they’re used to get walls down.

if you remove treb behind gate there is no more solution to destroy ram….
Most safe AC spot can’t shoot directly on the gate…

The treb damage through gates thing is silly, but it’s a broken mechanic that is a counterweight to other broken mechanics, like how impossible it is to use cannons/oil against a decently sized group.