Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone!

So I understand that “nightcapping” has become a deterrent from WvWvW. I’m not offering a solution or a mind-set of knowing how to deal with this. I see a lot of blame being shifted back and forth against various nationalities and religions. To me, and this is from someone who plays a lot of late nights on Far Shiverpeaks, it’s obviously just a matter of FS not being able to field a good and organized night team. It sucks, I know, but how is that in any way, shape or form the fault of Vizunah Square?

Yes, they’re French and have always been the target of much prejudice and stereotype, but why can’t we just rise above that? They’re not cheating, and there’s likely not an over-arching French-Canadian conspiracy at work either. Truth be told, I haven’t seen them slander [us] as much as we them. I think that should stop, because it’s getting ridiculous.

Imagine how hard it is to balance out the server population, and with parts of the world being in a different time zone but still sharing a native language with another, it just becomes that much harder. Just for the sake of argument I will assume it to be true that a majority of the Vizu night force is gmt-8(ish). If I wasn’t allowed to play, or in some other way socialise, with people with whom I share a language I would be pretty upset. Simply because it wouldn’t be fair (i.e equality between human beings). As it stands the game is free of region locks, and I for one think that’s amazing.

No one likes being locked out of a region. Who likes their consoles to be region locked? Or dvd players or what have you. If you truly believe region locks are good, please explain to me why.

So the problem as it stands is that Far Shiverpeaks, Riverside[DE] and Desolation (the three who are constantly at the top trading places fighting Vizu) apparently can’t get that night team in order. Too bad for us! I see people who brashly poses the solution of recruiting from other timezones, and while that might seem like something that shouldn’t be necessary, remember, this is a region free game and all bets are off.

WvWvW, in a sense, tries to emulate war with more than just two factions. It’s a constant on-going battle, where everything goes. Cheats and hacks being the exception of course. Let’s power through and just deal with it. If by upgrading a keep means you’ll hold on to it just a bit longer, perhaps it’s worth it? Yes, when the Night-time brigade arrives they’ll start to fight our lovely keep doors and have so much “fun” having to fend of the “gigantic” zerg of 15 people.

I realize I started off with a clear train of thought but it deteriorated into something less comprehensible. All in all, what I want to say is this, please stop being so entitled, and if you don’t want to offer some sportsmanship or other incentive to have FUN and memorable fights, why not just stay off the forum and go out and talk a walk? Cool your heads.

TL;DR: The current situation on the EU server is not “unfair”, it’s just unfortunate for those who can’t field a proper night team. Get over it. Don’t be entitled and stop inflaming the situation by being a massive troll.

best FS post of the month!

/sign

Unfortunately the problem is a bit bigger than “sense of entitlement”.
As things currently stand, unopposed capping is not a viable tactic or even the strongest tactic.

It’s the ONLY tactic.

This means my actions (and those of thousands of other players) have no discernible impact on the final outcome. It also means all those awesome coordinated attacks, mesmer portal bombings, communication, flankings etc. etc. etc. are all ultimately futile. If my server has more people online during the hours of minimal presence, we win. If another server has more, they win. What I, my group, my guild, or my whole server did or didn’t do while I was playing never enters the equation.

What’s the point of playing a game in which your actions do not ever matter?

MagnusLL.8473:

Unfortunately the problem is a bit bigger than “sense of entitlement”.
As things currently stand, unopposed capping is not a viable tactic or even the strongest tactic.

It’s the ONLY tactic.

This means my actions (and those of thousands of other players) have no discernible impact on the final outcome. It also means all those awesome coordinated attacks, mesmer portal bombings, communication, flankings etc. etc. etc. are all ultimately futile. If my server has more people online during the hours of minimal presence, we win. If another server has more, they win. What I, my group, my guild, or my whole server did or didn’t do while I was playing never enters the equation.

What’s the point of playing a game in which your actions do not ever matter?

If by winning you mean having the highest score, yes you’re quite right. However, the term winning means something else for me. I feel that I (or we, as a server rather) have won when we continiously, throughout the week, each day push back the night-capping advantage and equalized, or surpassed the opposing side(s) territory. That to me is WINNING. There’s obviously much resolve, and I think too many put too much stock in the EU rankings.

If I got into the olympics and tripped and fell on the finish line, placing last, I for sure would’ve won regardless. I got to the kitten olympics!

Wafflesomg.4820:

If by winning you mean having the highest score, yes you’re quite right. However, the term winning means something else for me. I feel that I (or we, as a server rather) have won when we continiously throughout the week each day pushed back the night-capping advantage and equalized, or surpassed the opposing side(s) territory. That to me is WINNING. There’s obviously much resolve, and I think too many put too much stock in the EU rankings.

If I got into the olympics and tripped and fell on the finish line, placing last, I for sure would’ve won regardless. I got to the kitten olympics!

Here’s the thing.

It wasn’t me to put weight on those scores. It was Arenanet.
Those scores show on your WvW panel. They determine server rankings. They determine a winner and two losers. They also determine the bonuses you’re getting for all players on your server, which let’s not forget are the only “game-mechanical” consequences of the whole system.

If those scores were only meant as a way of ranking servers and get balanced matches (which they cannot provide btw – there’s too few servers for an ELO-like system to work), they should have been kept hidden and the bonuses should have been given with a different system. You cannot really fault me (or anyone else) for taking the obvious hint Arenanet put in there.

In the end, the bottom line is: no matter what I do, I do not feel I’m making any difference whatsoever. This to me makes the game unfun. And what’s the point of playing a game which isn’t fun?

Arenanet has put a fairly solid foundation in place for WvWvW. There are always room for improvement and despite our best wishes, those won’t come over night. Until such a time, you’ll just have to find what makes it fun for you, instead of demanding Arenanet to make fun for you.

I absolutely doesn’t mean any disrespect, but people need to be more pro-active in the game. I will give you a shovel and a bucket, then it’s up to you on how to use it.

My contribution to their game has already been done the moment I forked the money to buy the box.

I’m not paid to fix their game. If they cannot provide me a fun experience, I stop playing their game and find a better one. Simple as that.

MagnusLL.8473:

My contribution to their game has already been done the moment I forked the money to buy the box.

I’m not paid to fix their game. If they cannot provide me a fun experience, I stop playing their game and find a better one. Simple as that.

Case in point.

Canadians should play on US servers.
End of.

The Yanks would be going apesquat if 500 Euros moved to an American server and ruined WvW night after night.

There are Europeans playing on American servers, afaik. but there’s more servers with different timezone players there, than there is on the EU side (We have VS with the Canadians, I’ve heard there’s a considerable Oceanic and Asian population on several NA servers)

Xanthian.3025:

Canadians should play on US servers.
End of.

The Yanks would be going apesquat if 500 Euros moved to an American server and ruined WvW night after night.

Why this unreasonable demand for segregation? Countries and timezones be kitten I thought we all were gamers and your location in the world is important only in the case of latency and language barriers (and even then we tend to overcome that quite well in my opinion).

Also, be respectful enough to at least call them Americans, such as they are. You can only ruin WvWvW by hacks and other exploits, the rest is fair game, thus not ruining anything. Recruit off-hour people, or why don’t you move yourself then?

Greetings from VS,

In fact, even Europe have a large scale of different GMT so picking the score at a certain point of the day (like a lot of players like to do) is pointless because some other can be eating/sleeping/spending time at something else when you have free time to play.

Actually VS is the server that can cover a large scale of GMT but I seriously doubt that the Canadians one make a huge difference as everybody from other servers says. It’s just people taking time on their sleeping/eating/etc… time to play and give their server an advantage and guess what ? It works.

Eyfie.7304:

Greetings from VS,

In fact, even Europe have a large scale of different GMT so picking the score at a certain point of the day (like a lot of players like to do) is pointless because some other can be eating/sleeping/spending time at something else when you have free time to play.

Actually VS is the server that can cover a large scale of GMT but I seriously doubt that the Canadians one make a huge difference as everybody from other servers says. It’s just people taking time on their sleeping/eating/etc… time to play and give their server an advantage and guess what ? It works.

Precisely this. It seems that many have this notion stuck in their head that ALL of Europe is GMT+0 and everyone is slaving to what would be percieved as a “normal sleep schedule”. It’s strange and not how the world works :p

Eyfie.7304:

Actually VS is the server that can cover a large scale of GMT but I seriously doubt that the Canadians one make a huge difference as everybody from other servers says. It’s just people taking time on their sleeping/eating/etc… time to play and give their server an advantage and guess what ? It works.

I was naive thinking that playing your character, learning tactics, buying equipment or communication was the key to victory in WvW, when the only real key to winning is in fact to put all your efforts to play while your enemy is AFK for IRL reasons.

night PVEing is lame, gamedesign sucks in that part.

Wafflesomg.4820:

Imagine how hard it is to balance out the server population, and with parts of the world being in a different time zone but still sharing a native language with another, it just becomes that much harder. Just for the sake of argument I will assume it to be true that a majority of the Vizu night force is gmt-8(ish). If I wasn’t allowed to play, or in some other way socialise, with people with whom I share a language I would be pretty upset. Simply because it wouldn’t be fair (i.e equality between human beings). As it stands the game is free of region locks, and I for one think that’s amazing.

Well, my opinion on this, not everyone gets a server with his native language, I’m Hungarian for that case, can you find any [HU]s? I do not mind one bit, before anyone misunderstood, on the other hand, I do mind it that people from another timezone can break the balance in favor of Vizunah. As Desolation mainly has English players as far as I’ve heard, how fun it’d be to call a few Americans over, just to nightcap everything for us. Well, it wouldn’t be. I enjoy fighting for something fair and square, and no offense meant, but other than VS’s main WvW guilds, out of which half are night-timed, noone puts up a fight. They just shift over to nighttime when capping is easy for them, and during daytime they only have to protect fully upgraded keeps, with minimal personell. When it comes down to fighting, daytime VS should be in Tier 4 to 5, while Nighttime VS would be 2 to 3 [Facing Daytime server capacity] but NOWHERE near Tier 1. They are on top just because they have no opposition at night, and THAT is the point I don’t like.

Wafflesomg.4820:

So I understand that “nightcapping” has become a deterrent from WvWvW.

[…]

Don’t be entitled and stop inflaming the situation by being a massive troll.

Wiser words have never been spoken in this forum.

~MRA (casually playing for Riverside)

(edit:) It is truly ironic that people are willing turn this thread into the same pointless “But this server has an unfair advantage” discussion the OP spoke out against in the first place.

I play on Riverside.

I have the next week off, if that was not the case, I would not even been able to get this far. On a regular work week, I would not even bother with WvW because of its weird time structure, waiting queues etc.

Riverside Reality

Riverside is a German server. In absence of notable German speaking colonies around the globe, the Riverside server is on a European schedule. Riverside even has the extremist WvW guilds present.

During the day, things look very good. There are plenty of people present to give Vizu and Far Shiverpeaks a decent whooping. Particularly the jumping puzzle is defended teeth and claw with nobody else getting a foot near the chest. Riverside does not even mind Vizu and Far Shiverpeaks having some sort of peace agreement, by which they do not attack each other. (Best observed on EB map and when both servers try to combine forces to get up the well or through the dark room.)

In any event, people still need to go to bed. Usually Far Shiverpeaks drops out first and they concede all their stuff to Vizu. At the same rate Riverside goes to bed and concedes all borderlands to Vizu. Ultimately the same thing happens on the Eternal Battlegrounds map. Six hours from now, I will wake up to spawning in the base with 50 Vizu people at the gate, trying to camp our spawning point. But those are the Canadians, they will have to go to bed and you will push them back.

Meanwhile on Drakkar Lake
Drakkar Lake is a pretty shoddy WvW server. But as it turns out, there are two servers even worse than them. Which means Drakkar Lake holds 100% of WvW all day, all week. They have +15% in PvE on everything, it is crazy.

One Question
Why are only Riverside players allowed to play for Riverside?

Vizu is the living example of cross continental play not being a game breaking issue. At least for as long as ultra-culling is in effect and you suddenly have 20 enemies around you. Why not have WvW teams be cross-continent. Instead of pulling players from one region, each WvW shall consist of one European Server, one American Server and one Asian Server. Tabs are kept for each sub-team, so matchmaking can shuffle teams each time. This week you play along the Japanese, next Week it might be the Koreans. In any event, you never run into the issue of conceding the map because your server is not spread across timezones.

I believe that whatever peace agreement you seem to think is in place between Vizunah and Far Shiverpeaks is nothing but perception playing tricks on you. No one, and I mean no one, on FS (that attend WvWvW at any rate) have warm feelings for the enemy. In fact, we share the same belief towards Riverside, as it from time to time looks like you have a peace agreement with Vizunah.

It’s all a matter of skewed perception when under immense pressure and being backed up into a corner.

I don’t fault anyone for having that belief. It’s one way of coping with the frustration of not being able to do squat to sway the tide.

Judging by all the French servers I’ve seen with large night capping zergs (Arborstone is the newest one I’ve seen, even out zerging another french server) why not just give the french canadians a French NA server. There’s clearly enough of them to use it.

Brunners.7251:

Judging by all the French servers I’ve seen with large night capping zergs (Arborstone is the newest one I’ve seen, even out zerging another french server) why not just give the french canadians a French NA server. There’s clearly enough of them to use it.

As far as I would love to have Canadian players on French server, there isn’t, or very few isolated people playing with their friends, and they’re certainly not responsible of nightcap

Nightcap is just the reflect of the server population involvement in wvw.
It obviously doesn’t prove they are better players, just that they have more people dedicated to wvw regarding the global population of the server.

example I’ve seen : a server not “practising” nightcap may just begin to nightcap the next week when they drop in tier and are in a new matchup. Why ? did they grow a night population over 1 week ? No, because they saw it was possible, and mobilized their forces to do so.

Its just frustrating to see a zerg (FR) @ 03.00 at night… (even on weekday’s) (CET +1) Where now lined up with arborstone and augury rock (something like that) but even Augury can’t keep up…

What we (desolation) gets in the day time, we lose at night again and in the morning it is fully upgraded and the only thing arbor has to do is defend it…

Arborstone is almost 24/7 zerging atm…
Not that i mind the zerging, but 24/7 just gives no chance to other servers getting any nice bonusses from wvw.

I am not saying i don’t have fun anymore, just saying it could be better
(Since we learned about arborstone, (our guild) plays ninja small group style and just trying to annoy them as much as we can. And its just epic to kill +/- 15/20 arbor’s with only max. 10 of ours :p

oh ps: i’m not saying its entirely from Canadians, but i do think they play a role in it. (Or do french people really have no life at all? <— also an explanation…) You call it :p

Are you peeps aware that?

Arborstone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VS

Because if you’re crying about VS I’m wondering what’s going to happen when Arborstone’s going to take their rightfull place. And read well, I didn’t wrote claim but take.

Oh yes, Arborstone is making an impression on us right now… They are destroing us beyond repair. It is absolutely insane.

However I don’t mind. I like the challenge even though I know we are (at some point) going to loose our keeps and towers during the night.

Example: We defended AH (Ascalion Hills) on the Augury Rock Borderlands against a massive attack by Arborstone yesterday. The attacks started around 1am and we hadn’t lost AH by the time I went to go to work today (which was 6am this morning, and yes I am currently at work, without having slept a second last night). This means 5 hours straight of defending, tactical play, ambushes, awesome defence on our part and great, great coordinated offense (hats off to Arborstone!) by them…

I currently do not know if we eventually lost the keep, but MY GOD it was entertaining… I planned to go to bed around midnight but just couldn’t. So much adrenaline. So much fun… Loved it.

So here is to all the whiners: Grow some BALLS! “Nightcapping” is a valid tactic. Deal with it. Get organised. And stop kittening caring about the scores THAT much.

Once again, hats off to Arborstone, you guys are an impressive example of coordination and effectiveness. (Even though I havn’t been bested by anyone from your server in a 1v1 yet, but thats not what WvWvW is about… So yeah, impressive stuff, keep it up, looking forward to tonight!)

- Bloodsteel

nidwin.6731:

Are you peeps aware that?

Arborstone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VS

Because if you’re crying about VS I’m wondering what’s going to happen when Arborstone’s going to take their rightfull place. And read well, I didn’t wrote claim but take.

If that is true (and I believe it is after having faced both), it’s simply because a sizable part of VS WvW population (including several guilds playing during the night) has moved to Arborstone after getting fed up with the queues.

So we’re simply facing [some of] the same peeps, except they switched servers.
But it gives an idea about the size of the numerical advantage initially held by VS, the fact that they can split in two and both halves can still completely outman any other server.

It’s not only numbers MagnusLL. It’s huge numbers at any time of the day that are actually also organised! And that’s an impressive feat!

I have huge respect for Arborstone right now, really. And I love the challenge of playing (mostly defending) against them. It’s hard. But rewarding!

@MagnusLL

Nope. Some guilds moved away from VS but they went to Jade Sea, Fort Monique and AR. What you guys are facing is 100% Arborstone core. Imagine how lucky we, Jade Sea, were when we saw that for our first week we had to face Arborstone ^^.
But we didn’t came here on the forums whining about some potentiel French Canadiens or whatever, we just grouped up, sucked it up and tried to put up a decent fight.

Exactly what we are trying to do, nidwin. Well except for some people obviously. ;-)

FourthVariety.5463:

Particularly the jumping puzzle is defended teeth and claw with nobody else getting a foot near the chest.

Riversides best quality, camping puzzles while their bases getting ganked. A chest in the puzzles give badges and blueprints. If someone wants blueprints that badly, they buy it for silver ^^. Argument invalid! Funny part is, is that riverside is proud that they use terrain advantages and even outnumber the enemy in a simple puzzle. DANCE MOFO DANCE on our corpses haha

obvious ima troll

While it may be “fun” for some people to be 15 vs 1 in the middle of the night, it’s not everyones idea of fun.

It’s a simple fact that during the day and evening Desolation easily defends our own stuff, we keep everything in our third of the map and we quite regularly venture up and take a castle or two up north too.

It’s also a simple fact that after midnight Arborstone begin to outnumber Deso by a significant amount. Now maybe I was hasty in jumping to the French Canadian conclusion (although I still think I’m right. There’s just to many players on that early in the morning NOT to be from a different time zone) and maybe it’s purely Desolation players get frustrated at their numerical disadvantage and leaving, rather than Arbor gaining any numbers (although it’s a stretch to believe).

However it happens, after about Midnight Arborstone start taking everything on the map and by 2am last night the pie chart was 95% Red (Arborstones colour, obviously).

I’m torn here though, because this could swing one of two ways for me.

1. If it genuinely IS just a hardcore ton of French European players staying up through the night to get Arborstone some points, that’s fair enough in my book. If you’re willing to put in the time and effort to do that for your team, good on you.

2. However, if it IS because they have a second prime time of Canadians (which I think people are almost TO quick to dismiss) then that’s pushing the boundaries of fairness. Their primetime is ALWAYS going to be when Desolation (or any other UK or mainland EU) server is asleep (there’s only a couple of hours difference between UK and mainland Europe at most). This means they will ALWAYS win those WvW weeks.

If it genuinely isn’t French Canadians helping the EU french servers then fine, but to my eyes all the evidence points to players from another time zone playing throughout the night, and that’s off putting for a lot of members.

It’s the reason Desolation never has any queues now. Watch, next week when we get paired against two other teams we’ll see the queues form back up.

6 hours between Montreal and Paris.

Midnight Paris is 18:00 in Montreal so it means this is not French Canadien’s prime-time yet. When you guys and gals go to bed it’s still EU froggies you’re facing.

What you peeps don’t understand is what kind of “monster” Arborstone is, and they are still far from running around at full efficiency.

Anyway,
I’m done with this. If you want to stay on your little cloud and blame non-existing Massive French Canadien guilds on VS and AS that’s your problem. French Canadiens and Frenchies from France don’t mix well but that’s another problem, a French Speaking problem.

I look forward to see what Arborstone can do. I was in fact not at all privvy to their rise in the ranks. =)

As have no Canadian but we have some New Caledonia ppl ( utc +11 )

Once again, hats off to Arborstone, you guys are an impressive example of coordination and effectiveness.

We have a strong alliance, with some guild playing together/against for more than 4 year ( nay many more for daoc player… ) with lead of these guild coordinate in the same TS ect…