Guild Wars 2

godz raiden.2631:

Nor should morality cease existing in a video game, yet the anonymity of the internet encourages people to push the boundaries of morality, and that’s just the way it is right now. Got a problem with people making fun of you? The internet is definitely not going to be a safe space for you. If you need positive reinforcement, I suggest staying away from multiplayer games, or muting and reporting people that do harass you.

But what happens to your psychological state based on a realization that you can “get away with it” means nothing to whether or not it’s right or wrong. Mistreating people is still mistreating people. Whether or not they made the misinformed or ill-considered decision to come online or play a certain game doesn’t make it so any actions against them have no moral dimension. You certainly don’t advocate for the mistreatment of a woman just because she’s pretty and walked into a bad part of town, right? That’s a bad decision, but doesn’t mean it’s suddenly okay to do anything you want to that person.

How am I supposed to know that the person who laugh spammed me from a tower who I ended up killing a few moments later, and then maybe jumped on their corpse once, is clinically depressed? I personally don’t interrupt duels, and I know many players on Mag who don’t, but to those people who do, and then proceed to siege shame and what not, that’s just part of the game. It happens. WvW is a sandbox PvP game mode, it was not designed for duels. Find a better place to have them next time, or just brush it off and try again. You don’t have develop some superiority complex over it and think “They only did that because they’re morally bankrupt and I’m a better person.” Maybe that person who interrupted your duel just got home from a funeral for a loved one and doesn’t really care about the rules anymore. I can play that game too, making up hypothetical scenarios to justify my argument. It doesn’t make it any better, and it doesn’t make yours any better either, so stop.

I believe (personally, this is my take on objective morality) that you are well within your rights to reply in kind to unjustified mistreatment. That doesn’t always mean it’s wise to do so, but that it’s not morally wrong.

But that’s not the point I’m making. I’m talking about those who instigate these situations for no good reason, not people kittenpond to them.

And yes, maybe the guy who, every time he plays the game /sits /laughs siege buries, spawn camps, siege humps, trash talks, and generally bms because at every point in his life a loved one has died. That’s kinda unlikely tho and I can’t really account for that in judgments I make. As a human being, we’re all required to make judgments based off of what information we have. I’m not saying certainly everyone on Mag is a terrible person, just that it seems that way.

Also, again, it’s important to note when I say they’re a terrible person I mean it in a colloquial sense, not a literal one. I’m not saying they’re bad people or usually are or anything like that, but that they’re acting like that they are.

I agree with you to some extent, that if your goal is to simply make people angry on a video game, that does make you sucky, but it doesn’t make you a sucky person. A person is not defined by what they do on a video game. According to the implication of your logic, if I donated all of my money cancer research charities, gave a kid a kidney, and volunteered at a soup kitchen every week, but then acted a little immature in a video game that encourages me to kill enemies, that I’m a sucky person? See, here’s the problem with all of your arguments: You’re narrowing down every Mag player to only their GW2 WvW actions and making sweeping assumptions about their character based on those assumptions.

To reiterate, I’m saying it in the colloquial sense. This is not an absolute judgment on the moral character of anyone who has ever bm’d lol.

But maybe you’re right. Maybe only Maguuma deserves to be singled out for corpse jumping, spawn camping, siege shaming, and whispering salty messages. I know I’ve never witnessed any of that stuff on any other server!

Just kidding, you all do it too. Or you would if you could even make it out of spawn. You need to realize that just because someone acts foolish in a video game, does not give YOU the right to demean them to a terrible person analogous to a murderer. Although I guess within the context of this game Maguuma does look a lot like kitten Germany, what with the genocide forced upon DH the past week. (That’s called a joke, please don’t get kitten about it, pleeeeeaaaase).

Yet again it doesn’t matter if any server does something. I’m saying you do it more often. Look at my post history, NSP does it, but do I call them out for doing it? Do I call Ehmry Bay out for doing it? I’ve faced those servers dozens of times more than I’ve faced yours, but the few times I’ve faces yours you’ve demonstrated bad behavior dozens of times more than I’ve seen from those servers in their our entire history together. NOT getting sat/laughed/siege burried/spawn camped/duel interrupted is something that surprises me from Maguuma. This is not peculiar to me, this is not peculiar to Dh, there is a reason Maguuma is universally reviled and it’s not because we’re all jelly of your 1337 fites skillz.

Alright Arius, let me get this straight, you don’t play, but you know that a disproportionately large amount of Mag’s population disrespects DH players… ok. And nobody is complaining about being killed? Hah! Puck just stated he gets whispers from DH players frequently after killing them, and I’m certain he’s not the only one.

You know what the problem is with you guys on DH that are complaining about this? It’s the fact that you’re not getting upset about getting killed. You’re okay with coming out of your spawn and getting slaughtered, but it’s when some idiot throws a ballista blueprint on you when you realize you’re insulted. Oh what a tragedy! If you guys got more upset with getting killed and changed what you were doing in response you wouldn’t have this feeling of disrespect. I’m not trying to “victim blame,” but this is a PvP game mode, so learn how to PvP. If that’s too hard for you, go to PvE and kill NPCs.

Wow you really think you’re stuck in your spawn because Mag is keeping you there? That’s ignorance. There are three exists to every spawn in EBG, Maguuma is camping one of yours. If you’re already losing the week in PPT, there’s no reason to focus on your keep in the first place. Go out a different exit, find a different objective somewhere else on the map that will draw attention away from your spawn. I suggest attacked a Tier 3 tower on Mag’s side of the map, unless you’d rather avoid a fight without your spawn behind you to cower back into. Spread that bit of advice to your friends, you know since you don’t play anymore anyway.

As for taking my word for it… well I ask the same question of you. Why should I take your word that the majority of Mag is acting in the manner that you claim? You’ve shown no evidence that this is happening as frequently as you make it seem. You’re just throwing accusations around left and right, acting like you’re somehow in a position to judge others in a video game. And just because you claim that Maguuma does these awful things more, does not mean that Maguuma actually does it more. All of your arguments work against you as well, if you haven’t noticed. If you’re going to make the claim that Maguuma is the most toxic server in WvW, I suggest you start posting every bit of evidence you have, immediately. Otherwise, you have no ground to stand on. That burden of proof is on you.

The fact is you ARE suggesting that you believe you are better people than us, simply because you disagree with how some people are playing a stupid video game. “Oh no we’re just saying you guys act more disrespectful from time to time, not that we’re better than you. Now please observe as I go on a diatribe comparing the average Maguuma player to a murderer.” Sure. That’s not acting morally superiority. Not at all. It’s like you spew a bunch of garbage onto your screen, hit post reply, and forget exactly what you said.

You can’t see how an analogy comparing video game activity to the real world is absurd? Are you of the belief that Grand Theft Auto encourages kids to become criminals? If not, then I believe you realize why your analogy was absurd. I was giving you that benefit of the doubt, but clearly YOUR critical thinking skills are the ones that are sub-par here. By the way, there are such things as weak analogies. The analogies you are using are incredibly weak, as they are grossly hyperbolic, that’s why I refuse to accept them as anything but absurdities and illogical reasoning. Setting a piece of siege down on your character’s dead body is not analogous to genocide or murder of any degree, nor will it ever be. Severity is actually relevant to analogies by the way, because exaggerated analogy takes away from the point you’re trying to make, anybody who has ever debated a kitten thing in their life knows this. If you seem like you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill with your analogy, the point is lost on your audience, just FYI.

And no, you’re not wrong because I say you’re wrong. You’re because you’re making sweeping generalizations without evidence supporting them. You make the claim that most of Maguuma is being disrespectful, but show nothing to prove it. You think it’s alright to say “Well you’re just making assertions,” while you make even more targeted assertions. If you haven’t noticed, I’m the defense here. You’re the one making the claims, I’m trying to give you counter arguments to help you see why your reasoning is flawed, yet you think somehow you’re not the one with the burden of proof.

I know you don’t think I’m a bad person individually, if you did think that you would be insanely wrong. But when you lump together every Maguuma player in a generalization, then yes, you are speaking about me, just on a broader scale. And for the record, I don’t mean to target you specifically either. You may believe I’m wrong, that is your right, but until you can prove that you’re right, it doesn’t matter. Not a single bit of evidence has been shown that the majority of players on my server are disrespecting DH players. I will agree that there are Mag players that do behave with poor sportmanship, but I will not agree with you that it’s a large portion of the population here until you show evidence of it, and that’s on you to prove, not me to disprove.

Arius.7031:

Yes and spouses cheating on each other occurs – without fail – across the entire enterprise of Marriage. Stupid women/men should have knew that it was possible and so not been upset by it at all.

Mag logic.

Inb4 I’m accused of being melodramatic for an analogy being more severe than the thing it’s drawing parallels with. Again, that’s standard Mag logic for ya.

You’re so right. It’s clearly the case that adultery occurs – without fail – in every marriage, just as every PvP game – without fail – harbors rage-inducing trolls. And an anonymous stranger spawn camping/teabagging you in a virtual world is totes identical to intimate betrayal from someone with whom you share your daily life.

No denying those parallels! #MagLogic

I think my main issue here with all these anti-Mag arguments, is that they seem to making a mountain out of a mole hill. It honestly comes across as players who are unable to compete with Mag right now taking out their frustrations and trying to claim that at least they have some sort of superiority in the realm of morality, and then those same people act humble and state that they don’t believe they’re superior after making judgments of morality.

And the worst part is, that sort of complaining only further encourages the Mag players that do act in the ways that people like Arius complain about. It’s as though these people have absolutely no experience with the anonymity of the internet, or online gaming communities in particular. Some people are trolls. There’s a reason the phrase “don’t feed the troll” exists. It’s because the more attention you give to these people, the more they’re gonna disrespect you. I’m not saying they’re right to do that, but I’m saying by giving a kitten about them doing it and letting it affect you on a personal level, you’re just exacerbating the problem. Some people are just mean in this game, sure, but ignoring them is the best thing you can do, because there are no real consequences for unsportsmanlike behavior in WvW. Crying about it on the forums and trying to tell everyone how awful a certain server is will not change the bad apples on that server, it will rally those people together to troll you even harder.

You guys are just showing a fundamental ignorance of how the anonymity of the internet impacts certain personality types, and pretending as though the things you say will change that. It won’t. Get over it. Sorry.

dubstax.9102:

Without siege? WITHOUT SIEGE? lol I am sorry. I had to laugh at that one. I guess all the balis, trebs, and catas you guys have had buzzing over top of our spawning area were just my and many other people’s imagination. You guys really do live in your own fantasy land. Just…… wow.

OMG OMG OMG!! Relax dude. I don’t play 24 hours a day. If someone built siege when I wasn’t there, they didn’t inform me. There wasn’t any the few times I swung by so I’m just telling you what I know.

BTW, you can avoid all that (alleged) siege if you take another exit from your spawn.

xev.9476:

Arius.7031:

Yes and spouses cheating on each other occurs – without fail – across the entire enterprise of Marriage. Stupid women/men should have knew that it was possible and so not been upset by it at all.

Mag logic.

Inb4 I’m accused of being melodramatic for an analogy being more severe than the thing it’s drawing parallels with. Again, that’s standard Mag logic for ya.

You’re so right. It’s clearly the case that adultery occurs – without fail – in every marriage, just as every PvP game – without fail – harbors rage-inducing trolls. And an anonymous stranger spawn camping/teabagging you in a virtual world is totes identical to intimate betrayal from someone with whom you share your daily life.

No denying those parallels! #MagLogic

The analogous point was that adultery occurs often in marriage, like rudeness does in PvP. Not every person in PvP is rude, not every marriage has incidents of adultery. But PvP is riddled with rude people, and so is “the enterprise” (my wording) of marriage. I wasn’t saying EVERY marriage has adultery, but rather that a lot of marriages do.

Also never said it was identically. Analogies aren’t identical in every way, otherwise they wouldn’t be analogies rofl.

Nice try tho.

Arius.7031:

godz raiden.2631:

That’s some serious over exaggeration if I’ve ever seen it. Pride ourselves on being terrible human beings? Do you really think Mag players wake up in the morning, put their pants on in someway that is evil compared to the rest of you, and then plot the best way to starve children in Africa?

Yes I do think pretty much exactly that. You managed to capture my mental image of the situation perfectly. Put your pants on like a good person for once pls.

Mag players?

The only problem I see is that Darkhaven has a great community of pvprs that got us up to tier 3 without a tier 3 population

what we need is a guild made up of just wvw commanders to lead our wvw community which consists mostly of roamers and small guilds.

the game play between t1 – t3 is extremely different than t4 and below ……i’ve seen this routine many many times on our server since day 1 beta – we fight, we win…..climb tiers …as soon as a t3 fight happens ….all the new people that got use to winning end up wanting to join a t1 or t2 server …the core players stay….and start climbing the tiers again…./repeat

I’ve seen this movie before – several times – the fights in t4 and below are far less stressful than t3 and above.

Arius.7031:

The analogous point was that adultery occurs often in marriage, like rudeness does in PvP. Not every person in PvP is rude, not every marriage has incidents of adultery. But PvP is riddled with rude people, and so is “the enterprise” (my wording) of marriage. I wasn’t saying EVERY marriage has adultery, but rather that a lot of marriages do.

Also never said it was identically. Analogies aren’t identical in every way, otherwise they wouldn’t be analogies rofl.

Nice try tho.

If you play a PvP game, you’re going to encounter “rudeness”, as you put it. It’s endemic to the genre; there’s no escaping it. One might as well whine about wet rain. That was my original point, a point that evades your clumsy attempt at a marriage analogy.

godz raiden.2631:

Alright Arius, let me get this straight, you don’t play, but you know that a disproportionately large amount of Mag’s population disrespects DH players… ok. And nobody is complaining about being killed? Hah! Puck just stated he gets whispers from DH players frequently after killing them, and I’m certain he’s not the only one.

Haven’t played much since Dark Souls 3 released, which last I checked we were matched with Mag before that and I did play.

Also I’m saying on the forums. Of course some people, some where, in some game, complain about getting killed. Nobody cares. Dh has lots of complainers and losers, shocker. I’m talking about our discussion on this thread.

You know what the problem is with you guys on DH that are complaining about this? It’s the fact that you’re not getting upset about getting killed. You’re okay with coming out of your spawn and getting slaughtered, but it’s when some idiot throws a ballista blueprint on you when you realize you’re insulted. Oh what a tragedy! If you guys got more upset with getting killed and changed what you were doing in response you wouldn’t have this feeling of disrespect. I’m not trying to “victim blame,” but this is a PvP game mode, so learn how to PvP. If that’s too hard for you, go to PvE and kill NPCs.

I’m neither complaining nor upset. It’s funny, last post you were accusing me of being upset when I get killed (or implying that I was), now you’re saying the problem with all of us is that none of us are?

Also I’m not only referring to siege burials lol. You’re being intentionally dense trying to not understand my point. I’m saying Mag acts bad in so many areas, beyond simple siege burials, rage whispers, sit/laughspam etc… that it’s embarrassing. You’re hijacking multiple threads on these very forums to brag about getting a high k/d from killing bronze tier pugs. Do you really not realize how sad/depressing is? Or how annoying it is to see it everywhere we go?

Wow you really think you’re stuck in your spawn because Mag is keeping you there? That’s ignorance. There are three exists to every spawn in EBG, Maguuma is camping one of yours. If you’re already losing the week in PPT, there’s no reason to focus on your keep in the first place. Go out a different exit, find a different objective somewhere else on the map that will draw attention away from your spawn. I suggest attacked a Tier 3 tower on Mag’s side of the map, unless you’d rather avoid a fight without your spawn behind you to cower back into. Spread that bit of advice to your friends, you know since you don’t play anymore anyway.

Of course we could exit from the side of the spawn and avoid all fights. We’re not cowards so we’re not going to do that. I’m not alleging that you literally won’t let Dh players do anything but play GW2 and sit in our spawn area.

As for taking my word for it… well I ask the same question of you. Why should I take your word that the majority of Mag is acting in the manner that you claim? You’ve shown no evidence that this is happening as frequently as you make it seem. You’re just throwing accusations around left and right, acting like you’re somehow in a position to judge others in a video game. And just because you claim that Maguuma does these awful things more, does not mean that Maguuma actually does it more. All of your arguments work against you as well, if you haven’t noticed. If you’re going to make the claim that Maguuma is the most toxic server in WvW, I suggest you start posting every bit of evidence you have, immediately. Otherwise, you have no ground to stand on. That burden of proof is on you.

I’m not asking you to believe me or take my word for anything. I’m sharing my personal opinion and experiences on the forum. I can’t share my personal experiences because I have what’s called “privileged access” to my own experience/memories. IoW, I can’t show you what I’ve seen/know, I can only relate that I’ve seen it. I’m not in the habit of taking screenshots every time I’m bm’d because idc personally, so I have no evidence to provide.

I believe most people who have faced your server, if questioned, would back my position up though. I think you know that too.

The fact is you ARE suggesting that you believe you are better people than us, simply because you disagree with how some people are playing a stupid video game. “Oh no we’re just saying you guys act more disrespectful from time to time, not that we’re better than you. Now please observe as I go on a diatribe comparing the average Maguuma player to a murderer.” Sure. That’s not acting morally superiority. Not at all. It’s like you spew a bunch of garbage onto your screen, hit post reply, and forget exactly what you said.

Not doing something bad that you do does not suggest that I’m better than you. Or is it every time you accuse someone of doing something bad you’re acting morally superior? Catch a friend telling a white lie and say he’s doing it and suddenly you’re the moral police pretending to be the pope.

You can’t see how an analogy comparing video game activity to the real world is absurd?

No, analogies often work like that?

Are you of the belief that Grand Theft Auto encourages kids to become criminals?

Doubt it but I haven’t given any thought to it really either.

If not, then I believe you realize why your analogy was absurd. I was giving you that benefit of the doubt, but clearly YOUR critical thinking skills are the ones that are sub-par here. By the way, there are such things as weak analogies. The analogies you are using are incredibly weak, as they are grossly hyperbolic, that’s why I refuse to accept them as anything but absurdities and illogical reasoning.

Again, you’re saying that, but you’re not giving any reason how they are. If this were an anecdote or something that’d be fine, but my analogies are right there. You can quote them and show exactly how they’re wrong… so why aren’t you? The reason I don’t give evidence for Mag being in general bad is because I literally could not collect such evidence, it’s purely anecdotal. But it’s not the same for you, you could very easily supply evidence that my analogies were bad if they were, but you refuse to do so. You just keep claiming they are.

Setting a piece of siege down on your character’s dead body is not analogous to genocide or murder of any degree, nor will it ever be. Severity is actually relevant to analogies by the way, because exaggerated analogy takes away from the point you’re trying to make, anybody who has ever debated a kitten thing in their life knows this. If you seem like you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill with your analogy, the point is lost on your audience, just FYI.

No it’s not inherently, but as I’ve said I’m talking about people who do it just to annoy/aggravate other people. So the analgous part of that SPECIFIC action is “doing something negative to someone else for unjust reasons”. Does that statement apply to both murdering someone and siege burying someone to annoy them? YES. That means they’re analogous.

Exaggerated analogy may take away from how convincing my point may be, it does not take away from how accurate my point is. The analogy is accurate no matter how convincing you find it, that’s just your own mental issues with it preventing you from seeing the truth. If you want less exaggerated analogies, we could easily discuss bullying/theft/harassment (as negative things done for unjust reasons) analogies instead, but I have a hard time believing you can’t understand the point because of a gap in severity.

And no, you’re not wrong because I say you’re wrong. You’re because you’re making sweeping generalizations without evidence supporting them.

That doesn’t make someone wrong. If I walked up to you and set there’s a guy named Joe Mongolia in Australia, I’d have no evidence for it… but you’d be awfully conceited to say I’m wrong.

You make the claim that most of Maguuma is being disrespectful, but show nothing to prove it.

Yeah, that’s how testimony works? lol I’m relaying my experiences, not claiming to provide proof.

You think it’s alright to say “Well you’re just making assertions,” while you make even more targeted assertions. If you haven’t noticed, I’m the defense here. You’re the one making the claims, I’m trying to give you counter arguments to help you see why your reasoning is flawed, yet you think somehow you’re not the one with the burden of proof.

Because there’s a difference in the type of claims we’re making. Different claims have different burdens associated with them. This is basic knowledge. For example, mundane claims such as “I ate breakfast yesterday” require no evidence (in theory) because there’s no reason to believe I’m lying. Claims such as “I saw x happen” again requires no evidence, because the person is not claiming “x did occur”. It’s not currently possibly to prove or disprove someone having seen something, except by showing that it’s literally impossible for them to have seen it (which is harder than you think).

The type of concept I’m communicating is that I’ve seen you guys BM way more than ordinary (from my perspective). That’s an experience, that’s not something I could show. Even if I screenshotted you guys doing it a thousand times in a matchup, that wouldn’t show that the other servers don’t do it two thousand times to me in a matchup… I really can’t provide good evidence for it.

On the other hand, you’re saying there is a logical error in my thinking. Logic is like mathematics. If you say 2+2 = 5, I can show you that you’re wrong. Likewise, if you say “your analogy isn’t analogous” you can show that it isn’t, or at the very least you’re expected to.

I know you don’t think I’m a bad person individually, if you did think that you would be insanely wrong. But when you lump together every Maguuma player in a generalization, then yes, you are speaking about me, just on a broader scale.

But I never said every Maguuma, I said most, and even that was a more hyperbolic of saying “way more than normal”. And for the record, I don’t mean to target you specifically either.

You may believe I’m wrong, that is your right, but until you can prove that you’re right, it doesn’t matter. Not a single bit of evidence has been shown that the majority of players on my server are disrespecting DH players. I will agree that there are Mag players that do behave with poor sportmanship, but I will not agree with you that it’s a large portion of the population here until you show evidence of it, and that’s on you to prove, not me to disprove.

Sure, all I ask is that you consider whether or not so many people from so many different servers would complain about the exact same thing if it weren’t true. Of course that’s not necessarily true just because they do complain, but there’s not much other evidence I can provide. Some claims can’t really be proven or evidenced, we just have to think rationally about them as best as we can.

If you legitimately think that the universal complaints that Yak’s Bend’s siegehumping isn’t generally true, or Dragonbrand SEA blobbing, then that’s cool. I tend to think, while servers have much in common, they have much that’s unique to them and different relative amounts of different behaviors. Some servers have more roamers, others more fights, others more ppts etc etc… Maguuma imo just has more disrespectful players. Again, this is not just me, this is not just Dh, look at the threads involving your server on gw2wvw.net and try to find a single server who doesn’t call yours out on this. Right now SoS players are doing the exact same thing in our current matchup thread. So are Db and TC players even…

Edit: Here’s a quote from “Bloodie” on exactly what Maguuma is. This is a Maguuma commander, as you probably well know, and pretty much sums up what I think of Mag:

we enjoy making people mad, read other server team chat, people crying, commaders ragequitting. That is what fuels maguuma up m8. Maguuma is fueled up with other server teas that is it. you can kitten all you want

One of the reasons I have such a negative perception of Mag is most Mag literally (like I said in my first post) take pride in making other people angry/upset for no real reason. They literally brag about it en masse.

xev.9476:

Arius.7031:

The analogous point was that adultery occurs often in marriage, like rudeness does in PvP. Not every person in PvP is rude, not every marriage has incidents of adultery. But PvP is riddled with rude people, and so is “the enterprise” (my wording) of marriage. I wasn’t saying EVERY marriage has adultery, but rather that a lot of marriages do.

Also never said it was identically. Analogies aren’t identical in every way, otherwise they wouldn’t be analogies rofl.

Nice try tho.

If you play a PvP game, you’re going to encounter “rudeness”, as you put it. It’s endemic to the genre; there’s no escaping it. One might as well whine about wet rain. That was my original point, a point that evades your clumsy attempt at a marriage analogy.

“Wetness” is an essential property of rain, it is not rain if it is not wet. PvP can be (and often is) respectful. Just because it’s widespread behavior in PvP does not suddenly make it acceptable.

My first analogy works, but fine. Another analogy then: gang violence is “endemic” to cities. Do you believe people shouldn’t be disgusted by gang violence? Bullying is endemic to schools, should kids not be upset when they’re bullied? Heated arguments are endemic to relationships, should people not ever be upset by these?

The widespread nature of a thing does not excuse it nor mean people should not be upset by it. Arguably, the more widespread misbehavior is, the more upset we should be by it, just not surprised.

Darkhaven has often capped the whole map , the difference is we move on and let our opponents recap. In fact there are times the map becomes a ghost town after a full map cap, as we often wait for the opponents to play catch up, and we recap everything again. DH Doesn’t have the mentality of keeping our opponents at bay for a whole match up. but that doesn’t bother “me” because it’s just a different form of play in t3 and up, and I accept that and it’s just a matter of adapting.

The core pvprs of Darkhaven are intense because we always climb tiers, when more people join, we climb higher …it’s always been that way. Nothing new to a DH vet.

Arius.7031:

“Wetness” is an essential property of rain, it is not rain if it is not wet. PvP can be (and often is) respectful. Just because it’s widespread behavior in PvP does not suddenly make it acceptable.

My first analogy works, but fine. Another analogy then: gang violence is “endemic” to cities. Do you believe people shouldn’t be disgusted by gang violence? Bullying is endemic to schools, should kids not be upset when they’re bullied? Heated arguments are endemic to relationships, should people not ever be upset by these?

The widespread nature of a thing does not excuse it nor mean people should not be upset by it. Arguably, the more widespread misbehavior is, the more upset we should be by it, just not surprised.

Here’s what I said:

xev.9476:

If you play a PvP game, you’re going to encounter “rudeness”, as you put it. It’s endemic to the genre; there’s no escaping it.

See the issue? You’re shifting the scale. I’m talking about PvP games, as in learning to cope with “rudeness” in PvP games is just something you’re going to have to do if you want to stick around because it occurs regularly. Now you seemingly want to talk about specific encounters in PvP games, since you note that some specific PvP encounters can be respectful. Who cares? That’s irrelevant to my point that you’re guaranteed to encounter others who aren’t going to wish you happiness and rainbows and butterflies. Coping with upsetting people is a skill you’re going to have to develop.

This asinine refrain that you shouldn’t have to put up with people disrespecting you (I can’t even type that without laughing) is irrelevant to the fact that you do, actually, have to find a way to cope with it. You want to change the landscape of PvP gaming and lobby for the elimination of disrespectful behavior. Okay, great. That’s not going to help you cope with those mean bullies today, and it isn’t going to help you tomorrow – or anytime soon.

This brings me to my next point:

xev.9476:

And an anonymous stranger spawn camping/teabagging you in a virtual world is totes identical to intimate betrayal from someone with whom you share your daily life.

I mean, seriously, gang violence, school bullying, and adultery? I deny that these are even remotely comparable to someone spawn camping, teabagging, or siege shaming you in an online PvP game. If these things are so massively upsetting to you then I sincerely recommend seeking professional help.

i think for this to be more ‘clear’ we should change rudeness to competitiveness.

it’s a game, nothing personal, ‘rudeness’ in a competitive match is opponents giving each other mean looks, a boxer keeping his opponent in the corner for the entire fight, or a tennis player ace-ing every serve so that they can shut out the game.

attacking anyone is rude….but that’s the essence of pvp.

I’m contemplating the e-sport value of this tension. The personal feelings need to be removed for that.

xev.9476:

Here’s what I said:

See the issue? You’re shifting the scale. I’m talking about PvP games, as in learning to cope with “rudeness” in PvP games is just something you’re going to have to do if you want to stick around because it occurs regularly. Now you seemingly want to talk about specific encounters in PvP games, since you note that some specific PvP encounters can be respectful. Who cares? That’s irrelevant to my point that you’re guaranteed to encounter others who aren’t going to wish you happiness and rainbows and butterflies. Coping with upsetting people is a skill you’re going to have to develop.

And? Have you come to these forums, decided to contribute to the conversation simply by saying “toughen up”? Sir’s probably too polite, but “thanks dad” is the appropriate response if so.

This asinine refrain that you shouldn’t have to put up with people disrespecting you (I can’t even type that without laughing) is irrelevant to the fact that you do, actually, have to find a way to cope with it. You want to change the landscape of PvP gaming and lobby for the elimination of disrespectful behavior. Okay, great. That’s not going to help you cope with those mean bullies today, and it isn’t going to help you tomorrow – or anytime soon.

1) Um, disliking it doesn’t mean you don’t cope with it. Last I checked, nobody here has killed themselves over it, so I’m pretty sure we’re all coping.

2) I don’t want to change the landscape of PvP. Such a goal is obviously implausible and absurd. I’m just pointing out your server is full of jerks. Big dif.

This brings me to my next point:

I mean, seriously, gang violence, school bullying, and adultery? I deny that these are even remotely comparable to someone spawn camping, teabagging, or siege shaming you in an online PvP game. If these things are so massively upsetting to you then I sincerely recommend seeking professional help.

This again… I’m referring to incidents where players do this merely to anger/annoy other human beings for their own enjoyment. I consider that to be “negative” and “without proper justification”. Okay, do you understand that? Watch how I draw the analogy:

-Object A does something negative to Object B without proper justification.

Notice I have not said what this action is, I’ve left that blank. Take that sentence, and see everything it can apply to.

John (object A) kills (negative) Mary (object without proper justification.
Jason (object A) bullies (negative) Todd (object without proper justification.
Delilah (object A) steals (negative) from George (object without proper justification.

Do you agree these are analogous in that they’re doing something negative without proper justification?

Maguuma (object A) siege buries, laugh/sit spams, verbally abuses, trolls, demeans (negative) every server they’ve ever fought (object without proper justification.

It’s actual logic and quite undeniable without denying that “negative” applies to the things Mag does (or at least that I’m saying you do, if you don’t think you do it that’s a different discussion)… You may be delusional, but even you I doubt would say Mag isn’t doing negative things to other servers lol.

P.S. Since most people seem to not get it, I’m mostly sticking up for servermates and reason. I don’t care about spawn camping, I’ve done it myself. I don’t care about siege burial, I’m a roamer, we’re the group most likely to be siege buried in WvW. Got used to it in 2013.

I’ll admit the KDR bragging does bother me though. Mostly because it literally makes me sad there are people that pathetic and desperate for validation/meaning.

Arius.7031:

And? Have you come to these forums, decided to contribute to the conversation simply by saying “toughen up”? Sir’s probably too polite, but “thanks dad” is the appropriate response if so.

It’s “ma’am” and “thanks grams!”

You’re welcome, sweetie:)

Some pages ago I tried to present an example of a player/s acting in a sporting manner. It did not seem to go over so well when presented as comedy.

There are decent people on all servers.

I do not care how you choose to compete vs me.

I do care how you treat each other.

Good luck enjoy the game.

The walls of text are real. If only all that effort was put into playing the game properly.

Puck.9612:

Arius.7031:

And that’s where we are because you keep us there. Do you really not think Dh would retake our keep if we had a decent chance and enough people present to do it?

I honestly don’t know. Yesterday you all had trebbed open the outer and inner walls from your adjacent towers and your blob ran up to the gate and started ramming it….
Mag probably had equal or possibly even more numbers at the time but they weren’t anywhere near your keep. At your keep was maybe 4 or 5 GGGG (who I’ve seen decimating groups of DH 3 times their size) and a couple other pugs.
With the numbers you had, especially with all the people bunkered in the towers, you should have easily been able to take it but apparently your server sucks more than most at communicating?

boy we were 7 guys… if thats a blob to maguuma then lol. btw its hard to take down all those npc’s and players and 2 sup ac’s with a group of 7. yeah you defended, we didnt take it, but please dont even think that we had same numbers. not your fault tbh, anet should start balancing att/ defense instead of balancing classes in wvw. as it is now, defense is way easier. and thats why you usually win the fights.

once we meet maguuma in open field its another story. running back to smc to hump canons is the usual picture in that scenario…

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Puck.9612:

Arius.7031:

And that’s where we are because you keep us there. Do you really not think Dh would retake our keep if we had a decent chance and enough people present to do it?

I honestly don’t know. Yesterday you all had trebbed open the outer and inner walls from your adjacent towers and your blob ran up to the gate and started ramming it….
Mag probably had equal or possibly even more numbers at the time but they weren’t anywhere near your keep. At your keep was maybe 4 or 5 GGGG (who I’ve seen decimating groups of DH 3 times their size) and a couple other pugs.
With the numbers you had, especially with all the people bunkered in the towers, you should have easily been able to take it but apparently your server sucks more than most at communicating?

boy we were 7 guys… if thats a blob to maguuma then lol. btw its hard to take down all those npc’s and players and 2 sup ac’s with a group of 7. yeah you defended, we didnt take it, but please dont even think that we had same numbers. not your fault tbh, anet should start balancing att/ defense instead of balancing classes in wvw. as it is now, defense is way easier. and thats why you usually win the fights.

once we meet maguuma in open field its another story. running back to smc to hump canons is the usual picture in that scenario…

That’s a bit more than 7. Including the players you had manning siege in the adjacent towers you had at least double our numbers and as you can see we didn’t have any siege.

And just lol @ your other comment about us being the ones to hump siege instead of fighting. I’ve had players on your server straight up tell me that you all avoid fighting us in the open because you know you’ll lose and it will cause players to either quit or completely leave your server.

kins.3294:

Stop trying to get people to you T2.

and either post videos or get out.

Puck.9612:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Puck.9612:

Arius.7031:

And that’s where we are because you keep us there. Do you really not think Dh would retake our keep if we had a decent chance and enough people present to do it?

I honestly don’t know. Yesterday you all had trebbed open the outer and inner walls from your adjacent towers and your blob ran up to the gate and started ramming it….
Mag probably had equal or possibly even more numbers at the time but they weren’t anywhere near your keep. At your keep was maybe 4 or 5 GGGG (who I’ve seen decimating groups of DH 3 times their size) and a couple other pugs.
With the numbers you had, especially with all the people bunkered in the towers, you should have easily been able to take it but apparently your server sucks more than most at communicating?

boy we were 7 guys… if thats a blob to maguuma then lol. btw its hard to take down all those npc’s and players and 2 sup ac’s with a group of 7. yeah you defended, we didnt take it, but please dont even think that we had same numbers. not your fault tbh, anet should start balancing att/ defense instead of balancing classes in wvw. as it is now, defense is way easier. and thats why you usually win the fights.

once we meet maguuma in open field its another story. running back to smc to hump canons is the usual picture in that scenario…

That’s a bit more than 7. Including the players you had manning siege in the adjacent towers you had at least double our numbers and as you can see we didn’t have any siege.

And just lol @ your other comment about us being the ones to hump siege instead of fighting. I’ve had players on your server straight up tell me that you all avoid fighting us in the open because you know you’ll lose and it will cause players to either quit or completely leave your server.

indeed. you were heavilly outnumbered in this situation also. i bet 5 of you also took this keep while DH had 60 man blob inside raining ac’s on you lol.

i was talking about another situation, sry about that. the keep was fortified, and there were superior ac’s in there. humping was real as expected.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Puck.9612:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Puck.9612:

Arius.7031:

And that’s where we are because you keep us there. Do you really not think Dh would retake our keep if we had a decent chance and enough people present to do it?

I honestly don’t know. Yesterday you all had trebbed open the outer and inner walls from your adjacent towers and your blob ran up to the gate and started ramming it….
Mag probably had equal or possibly even more numbers at the time but they weren’t anywhere near your keep. At your keep was maybe 4 or 5 GGGG (who I’ve seen decimating groups of DH 3 times their size) and a couple other pugs.
With the numbers you had, especially with all the people bunkered in the towers, you should have easily been able to take it but apparently your server sucks more than most at communicating?

boy we were 7 guys… if thats a blob to maguuma then lol. btw its hard to take down all those npc’s and players and 2 sup ac’s with a group of 7. yeah you defended, we didnt take it, but please dont even think that we had same numbers. not your fault tbh, anet should start balancing att/ defense instead of balancing classes in wvw. as it is now, defense is way easier. and thats why you usually win the fights.

once we meet maguuma in open field its another story. running back to smc to hump canons is the usual picture in that scenario…

That’s a bit more than 7. Including the players you had manning siege in the adjacent towers you had at least double our numbers and as you can see we didn’t have any siege.

And just lol @ your other comment about us being the ones to hump siege instead of fighting. I’ve had players on your server straight up tell me that you all avoid fighting us in the open because you know you’ll lose and it will cause players to either quit or completely leave your server.

indeed. you were heavilly outnumbered in this situation also. i bet 5 of you also took this keep while DH had 60 man blob inside raining ac’s on you lol.

i was talking about another situation, sry about that. the keep was fortified, and there were superior ac’s in there. humping was real as expected.

Well you would know since your server are experts at siege humping. Should I post the pic I took a few second later where that group started building a sup ac in front of the gate?

How did Mag and DH get brought up in a thread about tier 2?

The salty tears from DH are real. Your server had a chance to move up. But your server leaders wanted to stay conservative and hold back even though 90% of the guilds wanted to fight. So those guilds left to find their fights since DH server leaders were too afraid to fight. And the server plummeted down the ranks. It seems every few months DH gets the itch to try to be competitive so it try-hards. Then the moment they hit resistance they QQ that it’s everyone else that’s beating them up, cry more & then implode again. I mean come on did you really think you actually had a chance against the server known for pure cheese builds, hacking, spawn camping and tryhard ppt’ing? Nice try DH but you blew your chance a long time ago.

Yup. Good thing this kitten stops on Friday. Bunch of script kiddies trying to debate and argue their views on the intwebz :/ Can’t you kids take it to tumbler or imgur or whatever the hipster place is these days?

Snip

Snip

Every server I have played I have personally seen evidence of sporting plays or received friendly tells.

IE I have evidence of decent players on all servers I have faced. I would suggest, if you never see any positives, play more hours.

IF you wish to make a post stating your opinion feel free to do so, trying to ridicule my post is fairly pointless.

i have to give credit to the moderators, they have been trying to be more lenient with moderation, but people keep pushing buttons and testing limits. so +1 the mods, and :P to the guys that insist on trash talking when anet is making an effort to listen and work with us.

dzlbri.8645:

How did Mag and DH get brought up in a thread about tier 2?

The salty tears from DH are real. Your server had a chance to move up. But your server leaders wanted to stay conservative and hold back even though 90% of the guilds wanted to fight. So those guilds left to find their fights since DH server leaders were too afraid to fight. And the server plummeted down the ranks. It seems every few months DH gets the itch to try to be competitive so it try-hards. Then the moment they hit resistance they QQ that it’s everyone else that’s beating them up, cry more & then implode again. I mean come on did you really think you actually had a chance against the server known for pure cheese builds, hacking, spawn camping and tryhard ppt’ing? Nice try DH but you blew your chance a long time ago.

What are you even talking about, ancient history? Sounds like you’re referencing the last time we pushed to t4 and couldn’t decide if we wanted t3 or t4. We pushed as a server for t3 this time. We were wrong about being ready for it though, I’ll give you that.

Crapgame.6519:

Yup. Good thing this kitten stops on Friday. Bunch of script kiddies trying to debate and argue their views on the intwebz :/ Can’t you kids take it to tumbler or imgur or whatever the hipster place is these days?

And complaining about these people is so much better than being one… how?

Also do you know what a script kiddie even is lol? I don’t see any on these forums, let alone this thread.

kudos to mag for hijacking the thread and not much else.

Where is the popcorn smiley? I provided one for myself