Guild Wars 2

No, a squad is exactly a group of players.

Please tell me the difference between a squad and a guild (with regards to membership).

What content are you being excluded from by not being included in a squad? Literally the only thing you are being excluded from is being in a group with that specific group of people, you aren’t being excluded from being in a squad. You can create your own squad, same as you can create your own guild. If the 1st squad is declining everyone not on TS, there must be several of you who can make a 2nd squad. It might not be as efficient as a full squad, in the same way a small guild is not as efficient at unlocking Guild Hall as a large guild. Having to do things for yourself and not being handed them for free is not the same as being excluded from them.

Just because you’re going to have a hard time unlocking Guild Hall upgrades by yourself, doesn’t mean you have a right to impose yourself on another guild.

The fact that TS will not help improve your play, is irrelevant to the group wanting a particular level of play. All it is is “me me me, i want i want i want”. The fact that you want something, doesn’t mean you have a right to it.

Ragnar.4257:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full).

Other players are not “advertised content”, they are people.

You have no “right” to a squad. You have no “right” to a commander. The only thing you purchased with the game was the right to log in, create a character, and do these things for yourself.

A squad is just a group of players. They are under no obligation to include you in their group. What’s next? Demanding people invite you to their guild because guilds are “advertised content”?

Admittedly, Teamspeak is often not needed. There’s no need for it when roaming, scouting, PvDing or when you’re steamrolling the enemy. But when it comes to big fights, anyone who thinks they’re just as efficient without TS as with it, is simply ignorant of what a well co-ordinated group is capable of achieving. Being ignorant doesn’t make you stupid, it just means you’ve never been shown.

Be open to being shown, and you’ll discover.

I was the same when I started, it never even occurred to me that the game could even be played at a level so astronomically above what I was already doing. No, I’m not talking about loud-mouthed children shouting “BOMOMBOMBOMBOMB”, I’m talking about the difference between dropping your bomb within 2s of your team, compared to dropping your bomb within 0.2s of your team. One of these will result in the enemy popping defences and healing up, the other results in a pile of bags.

You may think you’re 100% efficient without teamspeak, but you simply haven’t considered how much more efficient you could be. If you’re happy being 50% efficient, then fine, but that doesn’t give you a magic pass to insert yourself into groups who want to strive for 100%.

“Advertised content” does refer to players. We are in agreement.

Why don’t I have a “right” to a squad? Who decided that? Why don’t I? Why do you have the “right” to exclude me from content I paid for? We’re not talking guilds doing their own things, or players playing any way they like. We’re talking exclusionary, behaviors not yielding the “results” everyone claims.

If I am in a squad w/ TS I can’t hear. I get no benefit from it. I play the same. If I am in a squad w/o TS, it is the same exact thing. I play the same. If I am booted from a squad, and forced to run solo, I do the exact same thing. I play the same. The only difference is, I get no protections or benefits.

You cannot improve my play thru TS. Sorry, but there it is. So now what? 1 squad, 1 cmdr for how many hrs they are on, and I am completely foreclosed from participating in the wvw squad/commander game mode advertised as a main feature of the game? If all commanders do this, I won’t be able to play at all in a wvw squad ever. Aren’t I glad most commanders are not exclusionary like this? Yes I am, cuz otherwise I wouldn’t get to play at all.

A squad is not just a group of players. It’s a group of players following a commander. I want to do that, and be part of it. The squad was not full. I play the same no matter what. I cant improve thru use of TS.

If only 1 cmdr is on, and the squad’s not full, what’s the justification for this punitive action. This is true also in those cases where cmdrs boot people for not having certain classes. Perhaps a little more credence if the zerg is full, but punitive if its half empty.

Guilds are not the same thing. I’m not prevented from playing content if a guild does not let me in, as there are other guilds that will take me. There were no other squads that day – no option to select another. There simply aren’t that many commanders to run with. Also, I’m pretty sure guilds cant advertise for, and not get banned for saying things like no atheists allowed, or blacks not welcome, etc., Here, I was banned, in essence, for being deaf.

I’m not arguing TS may be helpful/more efficient for most players. I don’t have access to it, so its meaningless as applied to me. TS will teach me nothing, and will not make me a better player. Sorry you don’t realize that – it should be obvious. Wanting the best squad possible is an admirable goal. However, TS does not achieve this/ensure it. Many people in TS are not listening or obeying, goofing off, AFK, alerting enemies, on trading post, wasting supplies, etc. It’s a personal attack. It’s mean-spirited. I give my best. I play my best, and I’m as good as most. I’m a dedicated quiet player. But I won’t stand by and be “steamrolled” into quiet submission when I am being subjected to humiliating treatment on a game I love.

You’re not “showing” me anything, nor do I value or respect opinions that support unsportsmanlike practices.

I am neither a new nor unaccomplished player.

I applaud groups striving for perfection. I try to play the absolute best I can play every day. I often find these cmdrs you so vociferously support do a lot of wasted action and stand around a lot – not particularly efficient – esp when boosters/food are popped. They could be much more efficient, but from my personal experience, nearly every one of em rejects and avoids/blocks/attacks any criticism of their game style/play or tactics. And again, in case you hadn’t realized, I’m deaf, and by necessity, TS cant help improve my personal game. Think about it.

Also, its 1 thing if everyone in squad is playing 100% (which they never are) and the squad is full. Then your argument might hold some sway. But this was a partial squad. So I would be running beside it anyway, only w/o protections/benefits, and dying more, thus hurting the zerg and the end goal.

Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.

Phantom.8130:

Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.

That is irrelevant.

The commander wants a squad which operates with the level of co-ordination offered by TS. The commander is under no obligation to run a squad for you, and may operate his/her squad however they see best.

The specific reason why someone may not be able to use TS does not alter this.

I may sympathize with those reasons, but sympathy =/= obligation.

How can you possibly think that another player must do something for you, whether they want to or not?

Responding To:

“I was there when it happened. I’m on the same server as Eater of Peeps but playing on a different map with a havoc tag. It started with this person called out a well-known and reasonable commander on Team chat as a “pos” (piece of kitten) and threw tantrum about he got refused access to a pug squad because no TS. Apparently the pug squad in BG was having a bad time against a well oiled Maguuma squad and multiple loss usually resulted in commander reorganizing his group and demanding TS. So on the Team chat battle, his lieutenants have politely explained multiple times their TS requirement and even if Eater of Peeps couldn’t hear (as he claims his disability), his presence on TS will be accounted for an immediate invite, but Nooooope… Eater of Peeps refused and took it personally as an insults. He even went as far as calling out others who agreed with the reasonable request as “pos”. At this point, it became too cringy. This guy carried on his mud slinging, buzz word throwing, kid tantrum for a freaking 3 hours and clogging all the important calls across the map on team chat. Many times, he was asked to move on and bring his issues elsewhere; he brought out the victim card and accused us for bullying. I think many believe him a troll and blocked him, or at least that’s what my squad did.

If you ask for my opinion, he’s just a painfully new Mez.

Edit: oh right, the reason he raged about being exclusive from the squad even though he can follow the tag perfectly fine was about tagging credit, LOL."

You were there but not there? Obviously, you were not there as your post is replete with untruths and mischaracterization.

It didn’t start with my calling out anything. It started with the commander booting me, refusing to listen, and commanding the same squad I had been in all day which was nowhere near full.

I have run with this cmdr before so I am familiar with his “reputation.” Not all agree with your opinion, but my beef is not with his ability or your personal opinion as to his merits, it has to do with the decision he made to be not nice and exclusionary. It was very mean, and quite personal until I decided to make it public. You denigrate me for that, but have nothing but respect and support for the behavior this cmdr showed when he had the ability to use his leadership power/control fairly and not prejudicially, especially when the squad wasn’t full?

I did not call cmdr swear words. I did throw a verbal rant on TC because I was quite upset. I wanted to play and couldn’t. The circumstances were unwarranted and humiliating. The choice to boot me did not result in the thing the cmdr wanted as banishing me to the zerg hinterlands results in the exact same thing as if I had been in the squad w/o TS (only w/o protections I die more, so in effect, its actually a worse result than if he had just let me stay, like I had been all day). It’s gross behavior, unreasonable, rude and I took it quite personally. It was humiliating for me to think about turning on TS as a pointless, humiliating exercise in futility. Kinda rubs my nose in it, don’t you think?

You are completely wrong about your characterization of events. BG was winning before this commander came on. We had been winning pretty much all day in EB. The preceding commander tagged down cuz he was tired. That’s all. Then the new one comes in, and its insta boot for me when he hears I cant TS – for no good reason. He did not criticize my game play. He never criticized it before this day either, tho I have run with him in zergs before. If he would like to offer written advice as to what he would like to see from me personally, he can certainly do that, and I will respond. BTW, we had been a well-oiled machine all day. I wasn’t on TS then and I was in the same squad all day .

I was told get on TS or ur out. I was booted. I have multiple reasons for not having access to TS, not the least of which is that I am deaf (and there are 3 other reasons as well). I refused politely. I asked politely multiple times to get invited back. I gave legitimate, good, unavoidable reasons. I was blocked/kicked to the curb. I took it quite personally.

I’m not “Claiming” I have a disability. Shame on you. But, even if I were, which I am not, what in the world difference would that make? Another insensitive, mean suggestion. That day was full of that kind of comment, and much, much worse from the commander’s supporters and others. Why not claim I murder babies too?

I call people “POS” when they are being extremely abusive towards me first. You conveniently left that part out. I responded to their namecalling and abusive behavior towards me. I complained in chat, and didn’t swear. I got responses that were like Lord of the Flies – attack the weak one. Nice bullying, gang mentality, but w/e. I fought back. So what. Nobody asked you, or people like you, to throw the first punch. You could have been mature and seen that I was quite upset and frustrated and mad, and responded kindly and perhaps pm’ed the commander and pressured him for his behavior, instead of attacking me for complaining in TC.

I carried on for as long as the cmdr precluded me from joining. I tried to join thruout his entire time as cmdr, to no avail. He could have instantly stopped my rant by inviting me, especially since he never once had a full squad. I would have shut up immediately. But no, his choice to play, my choice to react, and react I will until he stops, because his behavior is rude and his requirements don’t even accomplish what he insists they do.

I was bullied that day. I didn’t pull the victim card, tho I was a victim and I did complain. I was also a victim of further bullying, to which I reacted as well. You had choices too you know. As for your squad blocking me, to each his own. If you fear words, protest, change, freedoms, ok. GL w/ that.

Ragnar.4257:

Phantom.8130:

Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.

That is irrelevant.

The commander wants a squad which operates with the level of co-ordination offered by TS. The commander is under no obligation to run a squad for you, and may operate his/her squad however they see best.

The specific reason why someone may not be able to use TS does not alter this.

I may sympathize with those reasons, but sympathy =/= obligation.

How can you possibly think that another player must do something for you, whether they want to or not?

I agree. The commander is under no obligation to act like a human being. He can be classless, baseless, unforgiving, crude, w/e. However, he shouldn’t be punitive and he shouldn’t be abusive or prejudicial towards others. Its not nice. Its not good leadership or good gamesmanship. This is supposed to be a great community. This type of behavior is grossly demoralizing, humiliating, punitive and arbitrary. It shouldn’t be encouraged by anyone. If there were more than one commander-led-squad on that day then, I would understand it. Or if the squad had been full, and he wanted to get the “best” grouping out of the more than available player base. But this was a partially full squad on a prime play day with no other cmdrs/squads in EB. The exclusion resulted in a worse net effect for the squad/server than had I stayed. So WTF. The claimed reasons for the exclusion are BS. It was personal and punitive. And I don’t know why, unless there are just some players who don’t like me and encouraged the cmdr to boot me.

Also, I do agree with you. The commander can do as he pleases. In fact, he did do as he pleased. He excluded me from running with the only partially full commander-led squad in EB for a long time while I had boosters running and was ready to continue to play. That is his prerogative. Apparently Anet condones it. It seems very unprofessional, very unsportsmanlike, very unkind, and frankly non-sensical and elitists. He can do it. He did do it. I will defend his right to be a jerk all day long. He can punish me (for what?) and be an exclusionary person. But that doesn’t mean I won’t call him out for it. It doesn’t mean I won’t make everyone aware of how outrageous I think this type of behavior is under these conditions. I will do what I want, just as he did and will continue to do as he wants. I do not say he MUST do as I say. I say it is disgraceful that he does what he does. And he is not the first, alone, or the only.

Eater of Peeps, the commander has every right to choose the criteria for being in his/her own squad. Even if those criteria are senseless. He could demand that people dye their armor neon colors and he/she would be in the right to kick anyone who didn’t from his/her squad. Even if the squad isn’t full.

Yes, you were unhappy that he booted you and wasn’t willing to compromise due to the reasons you don’t have teamspeak. However, the moment you started the name calling (even if he started first, doesn’t matter), you lost any support you may have had. You ceased to be the victim as there was no need to stoop to name calling.

If you had been gracious and understanding in accepting that you weren’t fitting the criteria to fit into the squad, you may have been invited in later on if you had shown value to the group even if you weren’t on TS. Or a smaller squad going after the smaller targets may have invited you to their group since you don’t need TS for those.

And given your rant was in a chat that spanned multiple maps, you may have burnt bridges with more lenient commanders and players. Because you may be on their block list so that they could see the reports scouts were giving or their commander was giving.

Just my two cents as a PvE’er who wouldn’t get on TS with strangers due to introversion.

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

Can’t stand all the profanity, screaming, yelling, drama, sex talk, etc. that comes with any MMO voice chat. That stuff is way more of a distraction than just paying attention to what you see onscreen.

If you are a good player, you don’t need to “hear” to “see” what is going on. Pretty easy to figure out on your own.

When I’m chilling in a game after a long day in the real world of work, the last thing I want to be subjected to is a bunch of foul mouthed people trying really hard to be relevant. I need to listen to something inspiring and soothing, like music, not profanity and drunk talk.

Besides, if you don’t like the squad, form your own and tag along anyway. It doesn’t matter, and just block and report all of the harassers, because there will be some who will gripe about “multi-tags confuse the newbs” which is total BS.

Teamspeak matters and it makes a difference. If you’re following a commander who’s asking you to use it and you’re not, expect to a) not be invited to the squad/kicked from the squad or b) put in the trash group with all the other folks not on TS or using non-meta builds.

It isn’t a personal assault if any of these things happen to you and you shouldn’t take it as such. Some people have their reasons for not using TS, others just don’t want to. You’re not forced to but you need to understand that it’s the difference between winning and losing when it comes to serious fights. You can push PUG’s without TS all day long but when it comes to organized groups, and/or groups with most in TS while yours is not, yours is a lot more likely to lose.

TS does not automatically make people play better but it does allow for instant communication which in turn means faster and more co-ordinated play. In an environment where standing in the wrong position for a quarter of a second can be the difference between life and death, verbal commands can save a lot of lives.

With all that said, you can absolutely function and contribute without it. You are not useless if you are not in TS but you are at a disadvantage. This means you need to be extra alert and depending on your own instincts to survive while also trusting the commanders decisions and trusting your group to support you.

Some people cannot use TS for a variety of reasons but that doesn’t mean they need to act entitled. If you have a child, if you don’t want to listen to people yelling on TS, etc. etc. that doesn’t mean you need to attack people for telling you to get on TS when you can’t/don’t want to. Accept that it plays an important role in higher level zerg play and learn to function and contribute without it if you choose not to use it.

This is just a game after all and if you want to play it casually then you’re free to do so. You don’t need anyone’s validation if they think you’re useless without TS. Just remember that you’re still a part of a working body in a zerg even if you don’t want to use TS. You should want to do your best so as not to be a dead weight regardless of how/what you choose to play.

The hijacked thread 101.

I’m sorry but I stopped reading some posts, because at times it seems the poster is for TS and others it seems they are against it, it was hard to keep up.

TS is actually a really simple issue. If you don’t want to or can’t join TS then don’t. If the squad rules are you be on TS, then find another squad if you don’t want to or can’t comply. If you still have issue then find another server.

Duke Dark Hart.1385:

I’ve been on CD for maybe a year now through all types of fluctuations and i stay because i love it. It’s home. both my self and my guild even if we are small have poured our hearts into CD. Tonight a blanket statement was made by someone i respect that’s a major voice on CD even if that respect only goes in one direction. That if you don’t use TS than your not an asset because you aren’t really helping. I’m sure a lot of people feel that way. I know its a big help in wvw. But it was really the first time in a year i felt like wow kitten my server.

Even if we were roamers which we aren’t we are a small ops guild of seasoned vets that responds to all major calls from tags and larger guilds for aid. I feel like that’s a pretty big kitten you to people that put in time and effort but don’t use TS. I guess i just needed to vent because if I didn’t i was gonna seethe about it until i moved my entire guild to a new server.

I was there yesterday too, although I believe the commander may not necessarily be from CD. Understand that we are paired with 2 other servers.

I didn’t think too much about the comment , but cheer up if you feel offended. Things come and go in map chat. It’s better to ignore things at times or take the benefit of the doubt.

I’m sure everyone was anxious to get Bay back. For certain, the commander(s) threw everything to take Bay back for a period of at least 3 hours and there’s been a lot of challenges.

kdaddy.5431:

They set up about 6-8 catas at bay, we have a larg zerg. Those of us on catas took the walls down. The commander literally left us to attack hills and 1/2 the zerg died on the attempt at bay.

Wasn’t that cos someone pulled the EWP on hills? I responded to it but wiped there anyway. There certainly was a lot of confusion because we were in the midst of cata-ing bay and out of nowhere there’s the big EWP spam on map chat.

You all are baddies anyways.
-Euphoria

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

If you’re following a commander who’s on TS so should you for greater coordination.

If you’re just roaming in a smaller group, you should at least pay attention to team/map chat and ensure you come to aid commander if they need for a kittenault/defense… because there’s nothing more irritating than having full map and not a full squad and losing an important objective (defend garri, capture keep) because some roamers wanted to capture a camp and took away from potential squad numbers…

Ragnar.4257:

Phantom.8130:

Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.

I may sympathize with those reasons, but sympathy =/= obligation.

Oo. Really? Obligation? You’re funny.

The game play is not that hard to decipher without voice comms. Smash guards, smash people, take towers, kill everything in between. Rinse repeat. THOUGH I will give you it makes it easier for the commander to dole out his/her orders and those in TS. Even though I think it is a needed in game it is not a necessity.

Sarika.3756:

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

Hehe I’m not convinced that no one is saying the 1st one to be honest. Some people seem to be under the impression that teamspeak means teamspeak regardless of extenuating circumstances.

The way I see it regarding the 2nd issue is that:
Some people mistakenly believe (and understandably so I think) that if they get kicked from a squad it’s because they’re not welcome in the vicinity of the squad. Understandably because the actions of some squads reinforce this belief, and because the functionality of a squad (organisation as opposed to “this is our party and you’re not welcome”) isn’t immediately apparent to for example newer players.
On the other side, some other people mistakenly believe (less understandably to me) that the “rules” of a squad extend beyond the squad, to everyone on the map or even everyone on the server sometimes. And that not following these rules is “hurting your side” or “being selfish” or whatever. This is also reinforced by the actions of some squads, and more usually by the statements of some of the members of some squads.

My general belief is that a commander can choose to command in any method he pleases. (In this case, voice vs type)
But he can’t demand that people follow in the way he wants them to. So he can’t demand that players listen to him.
He is of course free to prioritise commanding the people who want to follow him the way he wants them to.
But, importantly, the people who don’t want to follow in the way he wants them to, are not in the wrong for having their own preferences.

This has escalated fast… What level of crazy must you be at to continuously insist that other people include you in their group when they clearly don’t want to? Yeah they’re jerks, but trying to force someone to behave in a particular way that suits you is social justice on a whole new level. Just save 300Gs like I’m doing and put your money where your mouth is: If you don’t like how something’s done, try doing it yourself!

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

I want to play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played by those who purchased the game. I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full). I don’t want anyone to play my way. I want to play the game in my own way. I want you to play the game in your own way. But I want to able to play what you play, especially when there is zero sum gain/no negative effect if I am in a not-full squad w/o TS or I am running solo beside it w/o TS – I do the same thing either way but get no protections, which makes me die, which ends the heals, which hurts the zerg, which fails the server goal. Makes no sense.

Also, the commander is the one who wants everyone around him to “play his own way (while he plays his own way as well).” I’m afraid its the same degree of want (coercion maybe better?), and its one-sided from the commander. As far as I’m concerned, the commander can play any way he wants, as long as it doesn’t infringe on my right to play too. And if it does, which apparently Anet condones, I will keep calling this rude and demeaning behavior out each time I am subjected to it because its bad form without regard for the feelings of others.

You are infringing on my right to play well.

seabhac.5346:

1. [..]profanity, screaming, yelling, drama, sex talk[..]
2. [..]don’t need to “hear” to “see” what is going on[..]
3. [..]after a long day in the real world of work, the last thing I want to be subjected to[..]
4. [..]if you don’t like the squad, form your own and tag along anyway. It doesn’t matter, and just block and report all of the harassers[..]

In this post you address many of the issues to do with VOIP, but you’re not entirely correct in your assertions. Here’s why;

1. If you don’t like the manner of the discourse in VOIP, that’s a valid reason to leave and/or never join it. I can sympathise with this and understand why these people don’t join.
2. Without voice comms, you’re going to have a significantly poorer experience in WvW. It’s as simple as that. You won’t know what’s going on and you won’t be able to react as well as those who do – Some people are better than others at coping with this, but overall I think you are more likely to be a liability if you’re not on VOIP than if you are. Having said this, I have deaf & mute friends in my guild and they did very well all things considered – I hope this doesn’t seem condescending.
3. This is the same as 1.
4. If you make your own squad, I hope you feel responsible for those who follow you and for their experience in the game.

I’d recommend that all those that can, to use TS whenever possible. Back when I used to be able to use voice comms in another game I insisted on having every squad leader in TS and as many squaddies as possible, organising 60 man battles against another 60 man guild battles across 3 paths, defence and attack and feints, etc. In fact, it was much more important in that game than it is in the very much simpler combat and tactics that wvw has devolved to.

Most comms will let me join their squads despite not being on ts (even those that advertise as TS only) and even other guild raids will add me as long as I am on my ele or necro, as I will contribute and know what I’m doing and know how most commanders drive.

My favourite comm was on SFR, when I got to know his playstyle so well I could use water 2 skill on the spot he would be attacking so it landed just as he impacted.

Worst problem for most comms isn’t whether pugs are on ts or not, it’s the fact they leave their brains behind when they join wvw.

Pretty interesting thread, and my interest was peaked after a couple of players following on FA running troll tags as we didn’t want them to join squad without joining TS3 (they didn’t want to install it).

A commander with a squad of 30 plus can be incredibly busy, and if they’re taking their raid seriously, have every right to insist upon everyone in squad being in TS3 if they want. My own eyes tell me that players not on TS3 die far more frequently than those following voice comms. I can understand why it’s easier to just have a blanket rule – be on TS3 or don’t be in squad.

It’s a shame that the commander didn’t have the time (nor decency?) to deal with you in whispers and understand your disability. But from running a tag, I can understand why it happens. Commanders are checking the map, replying to their own friends, following scout reports, and also trying to have fun themselves.

It would’ve been ultimately preferable to run with the zerg separately (you’re a guardian after all – it’s not like you lack stab), and over time remind the tag you’ve been running and ask for an invite. Engagement and positive attitude really does help, including with the tag’s guildies who may be helping out with squad management.

For those complaining that WvW TS groups are horrible places with vulgar people talking about things you don’t want to hear about, consider this. By joining a squad, you are indicating a willingness to play with another group of people. Yet by refusing to join TS3, you’re refusing to engage with these people in any meaningful way, which obviously comes across pretty badly. I understand how it prompts arguments – it’s like the kid in the playground wanting to play ball but not wanting to be friends with anyone.

As dozens of others in this thread have said, you’re under no obligation to play with any of these people, and nor they you. If you don’t want to communicate, roam, flip camps, run solo. And those people matter more than zerglings.

Go to eu fighting server; gandara, fsp or gh (only this linking), see what its like to have 60+ people on ts on meta classes against another zerg just like that.

This is what you need teamspeak\squad for as its comparable 70 man guild running, not to follow all the ppt comms/guilds.

Btw people not in ts miss most of the good fights, because ts gives good fights and its not obvious which map the biggest ts zerg is on, if you dont happen to be in ts. So if you dont use ts, obviously you cant understand what its like to play with it (and with builds that fit ts usage, f/e dragonhunters surprisingly are bad)

The bigger the group, the bigger the enemy, the more skilllag there is, more relevant ts is about outcome of the fight. If you only play within 20 man groups as a thief/ranger, obviously you wont see ts as important as we blobbers do.

As a member of the deaf community, I’d like to say to people like the commander in the OP, you better believe I matter. Just because you’re a terrible commander who can’t figure out a way to make best use of text methods (like delegate to a second, perhaps a scout who has the freedom to type) doesn’t mean I’m worthless. I played EVE Online for years and had zero problems using chat in fleets that number in the 100s, many more than your pathetic “zerg.” Perhaps you’d have fewer problems if those people were in your squad, but you don’t know how to use that tool to maximum effect either.

Not everyone can use TS. And many people won’t, even if they can, because it’s an unbelievably toxic environment.

Duke Dark Hart.1385:

I’ve been on CD for maybe a year now through all types of fluctuations and i stay because i love it. It’s home. both my self and my guild even if we are small have poured our hearts into CD. Tonight a blanket statement was made by someone i respect that’s a major voice on CD even if that respect only goes in one direction. That if you don’t use TS than your not an asset because you aren’t really helping. I’m sure a lot of people feel that way. I know its a big help in wvw. But it was really the first time in a year i felt like wow kitten my server.

Even if we were roamers which we aren’t we are a small ops guild of seasoned vets that responds to all major calls from tags and larger guilds for aid. I feel like that’s a pretty big kitten you to people that put in time and effort but don’t use TS. I guess i just needed to vent because if I didn’t i was gonna seethe about it until i moved my entire guild to a new server.

First of all, if you’re roaming or with your own guild, anything a commander says shouldn’t apply to you anyway. Second, if you’re following a tag/group and you’re not in TS with them, then yeah you’re borderline useless.

If you’re ever following a decent commander, be in teamspeak, then watch what people die most often in fights, then check to see if their name is in teamspeak. You’ll find that very often, they’re not in teamspeak and died because they didn’t hear the commanders directions. You can’t coordinate things like fake pushes, portals, quick pull backs to regroup, skill call outs like water, stuns, etc, or anything when people aren’t in teamspeak. So yes, useless is the word I would use.

Black Frog.9274:

As a member of the deaf community, [..] it’s an unbelievably toxic environment.

I’m sorry that you’re interpreting reports of voice comms as a toxic environment, but without having experienced it for yourself, I find it quite unfair for you to paint the various and different server communities with such a broad brush.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

If only 1 cmdr is on, and the squad’s not full, what’s the justification for this punitive action (cuz its only punitive). This is true also in those cases where cmdrs boot people for not having certain classes. Perhaps a little more credence if the zerg is full, but punitively obnoxious if its half empty.

This is kind of what it comes down to. If a commander takes the extra step of booting deaf people from a squad that’s not full, there’s no way to claim that it isn’t discrimination. Can someone please tell me what is lost if a member of a non-full squad doesn’t meet the requirements? If I lag behind or miss some maneuver, so what?

The largest, most successful group in Eve got to be that way by taking advantage of this exact disparity in view point. When they started, there were elitist groups and commanders who wanted “only the best.” So this group recruited heavily among noobs, unskilled, clueless, ragged, depraved, careless, and uncompetitive players and taught them how to win while having fun.

I’d like to take every commander in WvW and move them over to Eve Online. Commanding a fleet is orders of magnitude more complicated than running around in circles on a static map, hitting the same targets, with the same limited number of tactical options, and the same tidy little scoring system. If I can participate at full effectiveness in a fleet or, more accurately, several coordinated fleets, with nothing but chat and in game fleet tools, I’m absolutely certain you can do it in this pale imitation of group combat.

Svarty.8019:

Black Frog.9274:

As a member of the deaf community, [..] it’s an unbelievably toxic environment.

I’m sorry that you’re interpreting reports of voice comms as a toxic environment, but without having experienced it for yourself, I find it quite unfair for you to paint the various and different server communities with such a broad brush.

As a member of the gaming community in many, many games over the last 15 years, with many, many friends in them to tell me all about it, plus what I see in chat and, cough, forums, it’s a fair statement. If your particular TS community is pleasant and welcoming, I’m glad to hear it.

It just speaks inexperience.

Black Frog.9274:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

If only 1 cmdr is on, and the squad’s not full, what’s the justification for this punitive action (cuz its only punitive). This is true also in those cases where cmdrs boot people for not having certain classes. Perhaps a little more credence if the zerg is full, but punitively obnoxious if its half empty.

This is kind of what it comes down to. If a commander takes the extra step of booting deaf people from a squad that’s not full, there’s no way to claim that it isn’t discrimination. Can someone please tell me what is lost if a member of a non-full squad doesn’t meet the requirements? If I lag behind or miss some maneuver, so what?

The largest, most successful group in Eve got to be that way by taking advantage of this exact disparity in view point. When they started, there were elitist groups and commanders who wanted “only the best.” So this group recruited heavily among noobs, unskilled, clueless, ragged, depraved, careless, and uncompetitive players and taught them how to win while having fun.

I’d like to take every commander in WvW and move them over to Eve Online. Commanding a fleet is orders of magnitude more complicated than running around in circles on a static map, hitting the same targets, with the same limited number of tactical options, and the same tidy little scoring system. If I can participate at full effectiveness in a fleet or, more accurately, several coordinated fleets, with nothing but chat and in game fleet tools, I’m absolutely certain you can do it in this pale imitation of group combat.

Only if he was booted for being deaf. He wasn’t. The commander decided that he wanted all members in his squad in TS. Eater of Peeps wasn’t in TS, nor willing to get on TS. His reason was logical, but it doesn’t change the fact that commanders can set the requirements for their squads and be as strict or as lenient as they choose. I’d lean towards strict myself, because then no one can claim the rules were bent for one person but another.

@ Eater of Peeps.

I was in the raid you are referring to, so lets get a couple things straight.

The commander decided to make a new squad and only invite people who were in TS and knew what they were doing.
This was absolutely the right decision, our results improved dramatically.

Initially I was sympathetic to your situation, but you managed to destroy that with your extraordinary, 3 hour, textual eruption in team chat.
I’ve honestly never seen spam of that magnitude, most of the server were convinced that you were a troll.
You can’t come to this forum and claim the moral high ground, when you spent the entire evening telling the com ‘I hope terrible things happen to you IRL’.

I will also add that even if you had been in the squad, you would have been little more than a rally bot/bag.
The gear that you linked in chat (which no one asked for) showed that you were running a full zerker guard.
If you don’t understand why this would be a bad thing for yourself and the group as a whole, I suggest you do a little more research into the game mode before blaming others.

While I don’t really care about who is right or wrong in this situation as it devolves into a “Your word vs mine” situation it is clear that there are things beyond impairments that have resulted in well…. incompatibilities that would prevent the squad from working with certain individuals.

Even if you are right, disrupting the place is not a good way to earn yourself allies. I mean one or two sarcastic jabs as a comeback is okay, and helps entertain people, but if you’re dominating the chat with hostility, then take a break and go outside.

Please do some self reflection. I also have to reevaluate my own behavior in-game and on TS from time to time as I don’t care to deny I have personality flaws of my own. I expect the same from others.

Phantom.8130:

Analytical thinking time here. If, as you say, someone who isn’t in TS plays at a lower level, then someone who is in TS plays at a higher level. Whether they’re deaf or not. This is what you are stating here. So you’re spinning double talk to….. say that a deaf person will play better in TS, while denying it to cover your tracks. It’s intellectually dishonest.

Yeah, you see whats happened here, is you’ve not understood.

When a commander says “in TS”, what they really mean is “able to receive and react to audio-verbal communication”. Obviously simply being logged in to the software doesn’t matter. It could be a tin-can on a string for all the difference it makes; the point is receiving real-time audio.

Because, as you point out, for a deaf person being “in TS” is effectively the same as “not in TS”. But that’s missing the point. The point is that they are not able to react to audio communication.

So, if you re-read the phrase “someone who is in TS plays at a higher level”, and make the substitution to “someone who is able to react to audio communication plays at a higher level”, then my point still stands, and there is no contradiction or dishonesty.

Happy, Captain Semantics?

Black Frog.9274:

As a member of the gaming community in many, many games over the last 15 years, with many, many friends in them to tell me all about it, plus what I see in chat and, cough, forums, it’s a fair statement. If your particular TS community is pleasant and welcoming, I’m glad to hear it.

Sorry to hear that so apperently many people have bad experiences on TS. I can only speak from my experiences from the GW2 EU WvW communities and those have almost exclusively been positive. And due to the joy of relinking and being on a small (guest) server until recently, I have experienced quite a lot of commanders from different servers.

The one exception was a guy who made bodily noises on purpose on TS. I left TS and the squad and just never joined that particular commander again. Problem solved. Occasionally there will the one person that talks too much for my taste. Mute that client, problem solved. Otherwise, TS is was such an enrichment to my WvW gaming experience that I would never go without again, even if I never speak myself.

Eater of Peeps, I understand that you feel excluded but as many have pointed out, commanders have very good reasons for the requirement. How about you try a compromise next time when you run into that problem. Whisper the commander and tell him/her that you will join TS, but will be unable to hear them due to your hearing impairment. I am very sure that some(!) will understand and invite you anyways. In the end, deaf people have their ways to compensate the lack of hearing in RL and I am sure that that applies to gaming as well (i.e., being very attentive to visual clues… I play with a crappy laptop display and certainly miss out on combat info due to that). You will just have a useless programm running in the backgorund, but at least you can avoid public discussions and save you and the commander the struggle to explain why one person gets a “special treatment”.

I feeling kinda bad for just jumping in the middle here after 3 pages and discussion, but I would like to pitch in:
“don’t matters” is definitely an overstatement, everyone matter and are entitled to their style of gameplay

BUT, I’ve seen it 100 times before: commander trying to pull off tricks and set up orders ahead, but half the zerg just can’t keep up because they’re not listening to him and we all end up up wiping.
TS is a very light program, I don’t understand why would you give up the immense benefits it offers for style of play like WvW. Playing without it straight up hinders your progress and therefore the world’s

Use voice to text window software overlays. Join TS, turn on speakers (or use the plug-in), run software. Take the box and place it right over the same area as the chat window (or right above your dodge bar). Kids these days with their excuses…

Some text is garbled junk – but you get the gist of it During battles, most of it is power up, leap in, bomb here (repeat), get on me, turn right, turn left, push, jump down, get ready to push, kill this down, blah blah blah … 95% of commanders prefer you don’t even talk anyway, just listen.

To: Seera.5916:

Your’e right! All protest/complaint should be silenced! I should take my boot graciously, so everyone else can play comfortably.

A cmdr has the right to be unreasonably mean. Then, I can either silently sulk in a corner, my day ruined, or speak out, asking others to not support this type of elitist play that precludes people unreasonably. I chose the latter. Why should cmdrs/players cite my behavior as undesirable? Because theyr’e annoyed? I was annoyed. Everyone should be annoyed. This type of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone on a friendly, casual game. Its an excuse to engage in bullying/prejudice.

Yes, I’m vocal. I used forums/TC to state my op to make ppl aware of the egregious end effect (being booted as well as prejudicial bullying nature of the boot) of the cmdr’s intractable decision. It happened again last nite, btw, and its not 1st time I’ve been a recipient of this behavior from cmdrs in WvW. If more cmdrs want to block a silent good player from the entire WvW cmdr-led squad experience of game play (something I’m sure Anet doesn’t want), then so be it. If I am disliked for calling out another player’s poor decision while in a leadership role, so be it.

Let’s be clear:

I was polite and gracious, at 1st, with this cmdr and his support players. They name called 1st, which does in fact excuse any “name calling” I did back. If I lost your respect and others’ respect because I mildly responded to being told to go kill myself and called every disgusting name in the book via TC/pms, so be it. I never swore, and rarely responded to really degrading commentary slung at me (why? because I protested abusive bullying behavior followed by grossly abusive language?). Yea, blame it on the guy who speaks up and no blame for the mean/elitist cmdr. Ok, I guess, since u didn’t condemn any degrading comments to me on TC, or cmdr’s gross conduct or support offered him for his arrogant actions.

I’ve never looked to be a victim. I’ve not portrayed myself as a victim. In fact, in your post, u object to my behavior because I was not a victim. You don’t like that I was vocal, and according to u, “name calling,” both of which I would characterize, if true, as aggressive behavior, and hardly the response of a victim. I don’t care if I’ve lost your sympathy – I wasn’t looking for it in the 1st place.

I’m here/on TC to make people aware that while they’re running with a cmdr, having fun, ranking up, getting protections and active fun zerg play, others have been kicked to curb, told to go away/stand in a corner to wait to get picked off, or told to play pve (cuz we who protest are all pvers) or different game, or to reroll and wait in que to play solo/havoc. I don’t like those options.

I won’t go away or never complain/bother anyone ever, because I love this game, and behaviors like this are unacceptable and ruin the game and make ppl silently leave the game in frustration/humiliation. It should not be condoned by anyone. You should rethink chastising the complainer and focus more on the initial activity prompting the complaint. I think in the balance, most players/cmdrs will be able to kitten the more egregious behavior and help call it out.

I would really appreciate it if ppl could stop erroneously pointing out how a cmdr has the “right” to do whatever he does. I have never disputed this. I agree, he does.

That doesn’t make it fair, kind, sportsmanlike or acceptable. That’s my complaint. He has the right. How he exercises that right should be scrutinized by all and called out by those who think its not nice to discriminate against disabled people or people rolling certain classes or w/e arbitrary bs is offered as plausible justification for bad behavior. Its gross behavior. I’ll say that every time a “commander has rights” supporter tells me my behavior is in question (ok if it is -not really the issue here is it?) when that avoids the very complaint prompting everything- namely, cmdr’s unjustified, unprovoked, prejudicial and punitive action against me and others.

Pls don’t lecture me on being gracious. I was gracious to the point of it being demeaning/humiliating. Then I fought back. Now you tell me to be a doormat? No thx. If that’s what you need from me to support my criticism against this bad behavior, and you can’t find within yourself a justifiable reason to step back and examine the consequences of bad behavior and your intrinsic support of it (and condemnation of complainers) then I don’t really want, and will never expect, your support.

If you need to block me to conduct business or maintain a non-scary safe space in-game, knock yourself out. If words annoy you, how much more annoyed will u be when it happens to u, when actions are put behind words (like what happened to me). You’re out – now stay out. Do you think that would feel good to u? Or to anyone? What about if the reason given is not arbitrary/harmless like u don’t have “pink neon hair,” but is instead actually harmful, discriminatory and abusive? At what point do u get involved and say that’s too far and shouldn’t be tolerated. And yet, its not only behavior that’s tolerated, its supported vehemently and nastily.

O g, I wish I could learn to run in a smaller grp, and learn to like it! If only I could be content/silent in my new role as the banished 1 for ….. o, that’s right, being disabled (oops, sry “not meeting the criteria” for inclusion) or outspoken. Much better to support the guy engaging in elitist behavior, cuz yah, um, he not only has the right to be a mean person without feelings/regard for others, he should be loved, honored, followed and protected by all (at least he’s not annoying!).

HazyDaisy.4107:

The hijacked thread 101.

I’m sorry but I stopped reading some posts, because at times it seems the poster is for TS and others it seems they are against it, it was hard to keep up.

TS is actually a really simple issue. If you don’t want to or can’t join TS then don’t. If the squad rules are you be on TS, then find another squad if you don’t want to or can’t comply. If you still have issue then find another server.

There was no other squad. The squad was not full. I ran alongside it, to the exact same effect as if I had been in squad, doing the exact same things, only without rank up, benefits, protections or help, yet I gave my heals/kills/skills/etc. Switching to another server doesn’t fix it, as many cmdrs do this, and switching costs real life money which I don’t have.

Sarika.3756:

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

IT wasn’t just silly, it was demeaning and humiliating and embarrassing. U think I like having to say I’m deaf. U think I like being in here? WTF U think I should (I’m not gonna) put myself thru the added humiliation of logging into an app for ppl who can hear. NO THX.

The Cmdr has the rt. kitten No one is disputing that. I am disputing that he is using that rt in a really gross, discriminatory, prejudicial way that’s harmful to ppl, the game, and all who come here/play GW2 when it happens, and those other unfortunate few who get booted for w.e reason as well.

Should a Cmdr have these rts? I personally think no – but ultimately, that’s Anet’s decision. As of now, they appear to condone this type of bs. But that’s my op. U can disagree w/ that. But the Cmdr, just because he has rights, shouldn’t be supported for using those rts to abuse ppl or be discriminatory or be cruel. I mean, really, ur on the side of the guy that kicked a deaf person off to the corner to cry and wait 3 hrs (as some say) for a “nicer” more humane cmdr to come on? Y not go tell him to not be so mean and elitist. O wait, u obviously support that above all else. Never mind.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

To: Seera.5916:

Your’e right! All protest/complaint should be silenced! I should take my boot graciously, so everyone else can play comfortably.

A cmdr has the right to be unreasonably mean. Then, I can either silently sulk in a corner, my day ruined, or speak out, asking others to not support this type of elitist play that precludes people unreasonably. I chose the latter. Why should cmdrs/players cite my behavior as undesirable? Because theyr’e annoyed? I was annoyed. Everyone should be annoyed. This type of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone on a friendly, casual game. Its an excuse to engage in bullying/prejudice.

Yes, I’m vocal. I used forums/TC to state my op to make ppl aware of the egregious end effect (being booted as well as prejudicial bullying nature of the boot) of the cmdr’s intractable decision. It happened again last nite, btw, and its not 1st time I’ve been a recipient of this behavior from cmdrs in WvW. If more cmdrs want to block a silent good player from the entire WvW cmdr-led squad experience of game play (something I’m sure Anet doesn’t want), then so be it. If I am disliked for calling out another player’s poor decision while in a leadership role, so be it.

Let’s be clear:

I was polite and gracious, at 1st, with this cmdr and his support players. They name called 1st, which does in fact excuse any “name calling” I did back. If I lost your respect and others’ respect because I mildly responded to being told to go kill myself and called every disgusting name in the book via TC

Holy kitten snowflake. Maybe wvw isnt your thing? Plenty o other things to do. Yhere have been a tjoisand possibilities provided to in this thread. You know what. What happened to you was unfair and you have complained. You arent going to start a movement or a revolution. I understand you are upset but nothing will be done. There is no solution for you. Report commander for harrasment maybe let anet handle it. You are in a game mode that is inherantly unfair. Im sorry nothing can be done in here or in game unless you contact anet directly. I think this thread has covered every arguement.

It is acceptable for a commander to be able to determine the criteria for being in their squad.

What’s not acceptable to me is someone taking one incident of lost fun and ruining it for countless others for hours on end. Which is apparently what you did and as I’ve not heard you say otherwise, I’m inclined to believe is what you did.

Honestly, your reaction to what that commander did, is worse than what the commander did. His action only affected you in a negative way. Your action affected everyone on the map who needed the chat. You potentially ruined more peoples’ fun than the commander you’re complaining about. Not to mention, may have ruined your chances at fun in the future if you’re so stuck on needing to be in a squad to have fun in WvW. Considering your reaction, I wouldn’t want you in my squad. You make mountains out of mole hills.

Also, no where did I say you were playing the victim card. I said you lost any support because you ceased to be the victim. Other players on the server may have seen you as the victim of a too strict commander who should have let you remain in the squad until the squad filled up – there was no one who was willing to comply with the requirements waiting to get in. But when you went off the way you did for as long as you ceased to be a victim. There’s no call for being mean to someone back.

Wasn’t saying you should be a doormat either. But there’s a difference between being firm and polite and being firm and rude. And based on what I’ve read from you and others, you weren’t being firm and polite about your being kicked. You can stand up for yourself without knocking the other person down.

Now, if the commander kicked you because you’re deaf, then I’d be saying I hoped you reported him and he’ll get his karma from ANet. But he didn’t. He kicked from the squad because you were not complying with the requirements for the squad. He didn’t want to have to worry about remembering the one exception out of many on the squad.

You’re not being excluded because you’re deaf. You’re not excluded from zerg squads that don’t require TS – just the ones that require it. And it’s your choice to not install TS and just have it on and be accepted into squads that require TS. You could always install it and make your username/display name something that alludes to you being deaf. Like Eater of Peeps is DEAF. And then alerting the commander that you are indeed deaf and would like text commands when possible.

[quote=6617250;Ragnar.4257:]

Seera.5916:

Now, if the commander kicked you because you’re deaf, then I’d be saying I hoped you reported him and he’ll get his karma from ANet. But he didn’t. He kicked from the squad because you were not complying with the requirements for the squad. He didn’t want to have to worry about remembering the one exception out of many on the squad.

Though I have made statements of hearing issues I have never and I stress NEVER been insulted when I have spoken up about it. Though there are various ranges of saltiness in the game I think for the most part people are respective when people raise general concerns like this.

Even if I were to to join TS it is pointless running background processes I am not using and either I am in the group or not. No point in whining about it and I get along just fine. They can’t stop you from running with them regardless they can only kick from squad. So no worries from me.

usnedward.9023:

Even if I were to to join TS it is pointless running background processes I am not using and either I am in the group or not. No point in whining about it and I get along just fine. They can’t stop you from running with them regardless they can only kick from squad. So no worries from me.

Just pointing out that it is an option for Eater of Peeps if he tends to play at times when commanders who require TS tend to play vs those who don’t. If his fun is tied to being in a squad.

To all the naysayers in this thread:

Being a commander in WvW is one of the most nerve-wracking, stressful, downright holy-hell hard thing to do. It requires a lot of knowledge of the game – from cool downs of abilities to class mechanics to map politics and not to mention some charisma to get other people to follow their lead again and again, every time they show that icon above their head. The commander technically holds the faith and performance of every player that decides to follow them in battle.

Voice Communications is a god-send to them – as it expedites what they want and plan to do in order to achieve victories, informs them instantaneously of the status of their force and therefore react in time(hopefully) to the situation at hand.

Yes, it is not required to have Voice Comms playing WvW, but it became a standard due to its usefulness and any commander worth a salt will require anyone following them to use it.

Since the dawn of this game mode, servers have been asking all active players of WvW to join whatever voice communications program their server has. The “new to WvW” player guides that popped up all over reddit and the forums recently all highly suggested joining them. It has become part of the game mode. Get over it.

If you cannot use it for whatever reasons and the commander is requiring you to, don’t take it personally if you get kicked out of the squad. There are other ways to play WvW without following a commander – roam or be one yourself . Try being on their shoes and see how far you can go.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Teamspeak matters and it makes a difference. If you’re following a commander who’s asking you to use it and you’re not, expect to a) not be invited to the squad/kicked from the squad or b) put in the trash group with all the other folks not on TS or using non-meta builds.

It isn’t a personal assault if any of these things happen to you and you shouldn’t take it as such. Some people have their reasons for not using TS, others just don’t want to. You’re not forced to but you need to understand that it’s the difference between winning and losing when it comes to serious fights. You can push PUG’s without TS all day long but when it comes to organized groups, and/or groups with most in TS while yours is not, yours is a lot more likely to lose.

TS does not automatically make people play better but it does allow for instant communication which in turn means faster and more co-ordinated play. In an environment where standing in the wrong position for a quarter of a second can be the difference between life and death, verbal commands can save a lot of lives.

With all that said, you can absolutely function and contribute without it. You are not useless if you are not in TS but you are at a disadvantage. This means you need to be extra alert and depending on your own instincts to survive while also trusting the commanders decisions and trusting your group to support you.

Some people cannot use TS for a variety of reasons but that doesn’t mean they need to act entitled. If you have a child, if you don’t want to listen to people yelling on TS, etc. etc. that doesn’t mean you need to attack people for telling you to get on TS when you can’t/don’t want to. Accept that it plays an important role in higher level zerg play and learn to function and contribute without it if you choose not to use it.

This is just a game after all and if you want to play it casually then you’re free to do so. You don’t need anyone’s validation if they think you’re useless without TS. Just remember that you’re still a part of a working body in a zerg even if you don’t want to use TS. You should want to do your best so as not to be a dead weight regardless of how/what you choose to play.

My response:

1. All the other “trash groups” – but its not personal? It’s not elitist? I beg to differ. Get over yourself. Your’e not that good and I’m not that bad. I am not going to conform, just for the sake of making nice/conforming, or letting you not be annoyed, because I CANT, and I refuse to let some petty person with an elitist attitude humiliate me without extreme protest.

2. He’s not asking me to use it. He’s demanding I use it, or quit until another cmdr comes on. I CANT USE IT.

3. I am being forced to. I got endless requests of just sign in, shut up, and play. I could do that, but I won’t cuz that’s tacit approval, condoning, acceptance, and quiet acquiescence (and humiliating in my case) to a really egregious unsportsmanlike demand by a person given some leadership power. Play nice, and fair, or go home. Y doesn’t the Cmdr go sit in the corner for awhile, watching the zerg, contemplating how he hurt people’s feelings needlessly, to no better effect for the game/zerg (I played the same either way) w/ open space in his squad on a casual game that is dying precisely in part because of alienating, demoralizing tactics like this.

4. I died more out of the squad than in it. How did that help the squad/zerg/server/goal?

5. I did contribute w/o TS. I played exactly the same, which is better than most.

6. Thx for telling me I’m not useless. I feel so much better. Insensitve much?

7. I am at a disadvantage and must be extra alert? Um. Duh. I’m deaf. Kinda describes my whole life dontcha think? That’s how I play in and of squad/zerg, GW, etc.

8. I’m entitled? LOL Ur a little off the mark there bud. I’m entitled cuz I’m deaf? Or entitled cuz I got the boot? Or entitled cuz I got relegated to the place of deciding between humiliating silent play (so u can enjoy urself) or quitting or leaving/rerolling/requeing, or dying alone alot w/ a non-solo zerg build, or taking it to the ppl. I chose the latter. I think you might have the whole “entitled” thing backward. Ur entitled cuz u have access to and can use TS and thus, fit the arbitrary requirement (and according to some, are therefore, by necessity the much better player and wanted/desirable for that reason). Ur entitled cuz u got to play w. a squad, which is what u wanted to do. How lucky for u that u met the “criteria” (another insulting term for me personally), how entitled! You got to play in peace. You got to play without being punished or humiliated or attacked. You got to do w/e u did. I didn’t, yet I paid the same as you, I popped boosters (before cmdr arrived) the same as you, I popped food the same as you, I kill, use skills, heal, just like u, I run like u, jump like u, cap like u. But u get to do w/e and I can get to go kitten off. Spare me ur “elitist” talk – elitists are just using that phrase as a weapon to justify their own disgraceful, entitled behavior.

9. I can verbally call out ppl who use abusive tactics anytime I want and you cant stop me and ur admonishments for me not to do that are falling on deaf ears (no pun intended). I will protest bad behavior that is harmful to me and the game all I want.

10. Higher level zerg play? I’m sure u will get resistance to that assessment from roamers/soloers/spvpers, etc. ITS JUST NOT THAT HARD PEOPLE! WvW is way easier (even in “difficult” higher level zerg play, LOL) than spvp or raids or even fractals for the most part. Also, the best cmdrs I have ever played w/ in the course of 5 yrs on WvW have NEVER required TS or even used it (mostly because they didn’t speak Eng.)

11. As to the rest of the comments, they’re just rah rah and pretty basic. Thx for letting me play the game at all, O Great Entitled One!

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

If you are a ranger or theif and not in Voice coms then you don’t get an invite from me lol

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.