Guild Wars 2

Iris Ng.9845:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

The way the commander wants to play is with a group in voice comms so he doesn’t have to typemand. The way Eater of Peeps wants to play is to force someone that has shelled out gold for a tag, is willing to tag up for pugs and lead a zerg, to type for his benefit because he is too selfish to simply listen in voice comms.

So basically Eater of Peeps wants someone around him (the commander) to play his way. So……. selfish.

I wasn’t making the comment in reference to anything Eater of Peeps has said, to be honest I haven’t read much of it. So I wouldn’t claim to know what he wants. And from what you’ve said of it, I don’t really believe that you have much of a better idea of what he wants than I have.

I was just saying that the argument you attempted to use to justify whatever your stance was has been trotted out a lot to attempt to justify a whole host of stances, and it’s always struck me as a particularly stupid one, for the reason given above.

I was there when it happened. I’m on the same server as Eater of Peeps but playing on a different map with a havoc tag. It started with this person called out a well-known and reasonable commander on Team chat as a “pos” (piece of kitten) and threw tantrum about he got refused access to a pug squad because no TS. Apparently the pug squad in BG was having a bad time against a well oiled Maguuma squad and multiple loss usually resulted in commander reorganizing his group and demanding TS. So on the Team chat battle, his lieutenants have politely explained multiple times their TS requirement and even if Eater of Peeps couldn’t hear (as he claims his disability), his presence on TS will be accounted for an immediate invite, but Nooooope… Eater of Peeps refused and took it personally as an insults. He even went as far as calling out others who agreed with the reasonable request as “pos”. At this point, it became too cringy. This guy carried on his mud slinging, buzz word throwing, kid tantrum for a freaking 3 hours and clogging all the important calls across the map on team chat. Many times, he was asked to move on and bring his issues elsewhere; he brought out the victim card and accused us for bullying. I think many believe him a troll and blocked him, or at least that’s what my squad did.

If you ask for my opinion, he’s just a painfully new Mez.

Edit: oh right, the reason he raged about being exclusive from the squad even though he can follow the tag perfectly fine was about tagging credit, LOL.

I’m not a Mesmer – w/e. I guess people should never protest unfairness or baseless, prejudicial behavior.

I can follow a tag perfectly well. I do it all the time. I did it all that day w/o complaint or written suggestions of help from anyone. I complained about not receiving the protections, buffs, heals, and benefits/rewards of running with the squad. Why shouldn’t I? Why are you entitled to all of those protections and benefits, but I am not? Elitist much? I paid my money, just like you. I put in my time, just like you. I play well, perhaps just like you. But I can’t access TS so I can go kitten off.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

IT wasn’t just silly, it was demeaning and humiliating and embarrassing. U think I like having to say I’m deaf. U think I like being in here? WTF U think I should (I’m not gonna) put myself thru the added humiliation of logging into an app for ppl who can hear. NO THX.

Please read. I said that it was silly to require someone who is deaf to be in TS.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-
The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Really? you would not purchase all the PVE content, open world maps, events, raids, squads, dungeons, pvp, fractals, multiple hero classes and races, because you could be kicked from a squad?

Jokes aside, the pressure is on the commander. Anything that goes wrong is blamed on him and he has the right to decide who to include and who not to. The kick function also serves to prevent trolls and saboteurs.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

I want to play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played by those who purchased the game. I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full). I don’t want anyone to play my way. I want to play the game in my own way. I want you to play the game in your own way. But I want to able to play what you play, especially when there is zero sum gain/no negative effect if I am in a not-full squad w/o TS or I am running solo beside it w/o TS – I do the same thing either way but get no protections, which makes me die, which ends the heals, which hurts the zerg, which fails the server goal. Makes no sense.

Also, the commander is the one who wants everyone around him to “play his own way (while he plays his own way as well).” I’m afraid its the same degree of want (coercion maybe better?), and its one-sided from the commander. As far as I’m concerned, the commander can play any way he wants, as long as it doesn’t infringe on my right to play too. And if it does, which apparently Anet condones, I will keep calling this rude and demeaning behavior out each time I am subjected to it because its bad form without regard for the feelings of others.

You are infringing on my right to play well.

And I am protesting decisions that infringe on my right to play at all.

To Ragnar’s post above where he stated:

“I never said TS will help a deaf person play better.

Its like an employer putting a requirement in a job-spec for “must have a masters degree in Finance”. Now you apply, and say “oh, yeah, I can’t get a masters degree because I have to use all my time and energy caring for my sick mum and infant sister”. Is the employer going to say “oh, fair enough, you’ve got a reason”? No. They’re going to say “thats unfortunate, but, this job still requires a masters”. Just because you have a reason, doesn’t mean you get to by-pass the requirements.

Or someone who can’t walk applying to be a firefighter. Sorry, but the requirement is for you to be able to haul around hoses, cut through wreckage and carry people down ladders. The fact that you have a perfectly valid reason for not being able to do those things is irrelevant, the requirement is still the requirement.

I’m not saying that a deaf person will play better for being on TS. I’m saying anyone, whether they’re deaf or not, who is not on TS will play at a lower level than someone who is.

Let me put this into numbers for you. Player on TS = 10, Player not on TS = 5. The requirement to join is “you must be a 10”. The fact that you can’t use TS for whatever reason, doesn’t stop you being a 5. You’re not on TS, so you’re still a 5. You don’t meet the requirement.

Now please try not to _"put analytical thinking aside and just spew out preprogramed phrases."

My Response:

Where to start?

1. Its not irrelevant – its the whole issue.

2. The entire argument in this post is that cuz I’m deaf, I don’t play as well as everyone in the squad on TS. I disagree. I am a better player than many in the squad that day, and TS won’t make me any better of a player.

3. No one has ever criticized my play. I played all day with the same ppl, and not once did anyone type anything to me to improve my play or criticize my play. The cmdr did not criticize my play, and I have run in zerg with him before. After 5 yrs of being a dedicated WvWer and 14 yrs on GW, I think I get how to play WvW and follow a cmdr. I don’t need TS and it won’t help me or the squad.

4. Banishing me to run beside the zerg w/o protections is the exact same thing as me running in the squad w/o TS (esp when its not full), only I die more, which hurts the zerg and hurts the server and hurts the end goal.

5. It’s not like a job search. I already have the job, I already purchased the game and am playing it. Its more like, oh, you (insert pink haired person, etc) pls stop working alongside all your fellow employees. Your new office is down in the basement alone. Some "nice people’ might come visit u once in awhile and let u come back upstairs to work alongside (but not with! not ever!) your better performing workmates. I bet most would not be ok with that.

6. Really? Anyone on TS is a better player than anyone who is not on TS? Hmm, bet there will be some resistance to that. I think its laughable especially since half the ppl on TS r not listening.

7. Player on TS = 10? Player not on TS = 5? Isn’t this elitist/superior? So I was booted because someone somewhere thought I’m not good enuf to be in squad, tho I can run alongside it and do the exact same thing and that’s ok? No one criticized my play. FYI, I don’t need TS to coordinate my actions w/ yours. Its just not that tough of a game.

10. Who decided those on TS are “10s” while those not on TS are “5s?” And that “5s” can never be as good as, or reach the levels of “10s,” so therefore, they should not be allowed to play. Ever. And for those of us who TS can’t help, cuz we can’t hear, we can just go away.

Yah, ur not saying TS will make a deaf person play better. U seem to be saying all those on TS r better players than any deaf person anywhere (cuz they’re not on TS and therefore they’re 5s and can never be 10s cuz they can never get on TS) and therefore, the deaf person will never, can never be good enuf to ever play w. a squad.

Did I misunderstand something?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

I don’t have to do your homework for you. You look it up.

Aren’t I glad that its just a SUBSET right now! Lied to? I don’t understand. I don’t agree with your assessment about commander led squads.

I’m getting tired of agreeing with posters that Cmdrs have the right to boot ppl. I am complaining that the choice in this case to do so was unfair, prejudicial, punitive and without good cause, as every single reason justifying mandatory TS requirements that I have seen posted does not make sense or is logically flawed/advantages not as depicted.

Please stop stamping your feet. IT doesn’t help. Blocking me from accessing a non-full squad for the reason that I cannot use TS is not a valid reason for a kick. Its not good sportsmanlike behavior. It needs to be pointed out, so others are not humiliated or discriminated against or disappointed or wasting gold/boosters bought on the trading post. This isn’t about having a logical reason. Its about having a reason that isn’t solely predicated upon being unsportstmanlike or exclusionary with no good cause or net improved effect (as so many erroneously keep claiming).

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and there is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

The way the commander wants to play is with a group in voice comms so he doesn’t have to typemand. The way Eater of Peeps wants to play is to force someone that has shelled out gold for a tag, is willing to tag up for pugs and lead a zerg, to type for his benefit because he is too selfish to simply listen in voice comms.

So basically Eater of Peeps wants someone around him (the commander) to play his way. So……. selfish.

I’m not asking for typemands. The cmdr can use TS all he wants. He can communicate as quickly as he wants to those who can listen. I am not asking for typed commands – I am quite capable of following with no or very little commands. And if for some reason I die in a non-full squad w/o TS, how is that any different in end result than if I run alongside the squad w/o TS and die? It’s not. So what’s the prob w/ letting me in? It’s not like some much better player was prevented from getting in the squad (its not full). It’s not like I was playing the best I can. It’s not like I cant follow commands typed by anyone in or out of the squad. Its not like I can get on TS even if I wanted to, which I don’t cuz its humiliating. Its not like I cant follow the cmdr w/o commands. Its not like half the ppl on TS have it muted. So what gives? HOnestly, I don’t understand what all the beef/resistance is about. Is there some disadvantage the non-full squad is getting if I play in squad w/o TS that they doesn’t occur if I’m running alongside it w/o TS. Someone pls explain – this is a legitimate question, and if ppl r losing a benefit, I need to know so I can feel better and stop crying,

Because our eyes can only focus on one thing at a time.

If a commander is trying to pull off something that requires very precise timing and/or a lot of preparation, then TS is crucial. Because we can’t type and fight OR move at the same time.

Because the game has very strong anti-spam measures, commanders can’t repeat the same command, or similar commands in chat too quickly, or post commands too quickly or they’ll be prevented from posting ANYTHING due to spam control.

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

I don’t have to do your homework for you. You look it up.

Aren’t I glad that its just a SUBSET right now! Lied to? I don’t understand. I don’t agree with your assessment about commander led squads.

I’m getting tired of agreeing with posters that Cmdrs have the right to boot ppl. I am complaining that the choice in this case to do so was unfair, prejudicial, punitive and without good cause, as every single reason justifying mandatory TS requirements that I have seen posted does not make sense or is logically flawed/advantages not as depicted.

Please stop stamping your feet. IT doesn’t help. Blocking me from accessing a non-full squad for the reason that I cannot use TS is not a valid reason for a kick. Its not good sportsmanlike behavior. It needs to be pointed out, so others are not humiliated or discriminated against or disappointed or wasting gold/boosters bought on the trading post. This isn’t about having a logical reason. Its about having a reason that isn’t solely predicated upon being unsportstmanlike or exclusionary with no good cause or net improved effect (as so many erroneously keep claiming).

Then I won’t do your homework for you either. So don’t ask me to find where kicks are advertised content if you aren’t willing to find where ANet says that commander led squads are advertised content.

You said it was advertised that you’d have access to commander led squads and you claim that you aren’t. So doesn’t that mean ANet lied to you?

Not being allowed into a squad or being kicked at commander change due to lack of TS usage is not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike. People keep repeating it because you aren’t getting what we’re saying and are saying things that say that you feel like they aren’t allowed to.

@ Eater of Peeps.9062

Sorry, this thread has really gone places since my last comment in here.

With all due respect, (I’m not going to read through every swathe of comments so I’m not sure if you already have tried TS) has the following scenario ever occurred to you that you had been in TS one day – were you ever kicked from that commander’s squad since that requirement alone is all that was requested? Putting myself in your shoes reaching that far the only issue one may have would be someone pursuing you regarding a specific question e.g; “Want stab 1 or 2?” and even then, it’d make sense for that pursuer to relay the question via typing in-game thus making your position in squad locked in.

If not I beg to probe, what harm would it be other than having a program running in the background (TS/discord etc), admittedly uselessly due to aforementioned disability(s), so, to you?

I understand your desire to play the game as advertised (not requiring TS), unfortunately I have nothing useful to suggest otherwise to improve upon that since the trend/advance in outlier programs has led players to band together via these very voice chat programs that exist and of course – it’s not feasible to revert back to the launch days of text-based gameplay “typemanders”.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

Black Frog.9274:

Svarty.8019:

Black Frog.9274:

As a member of the deaf community, [..] it’s an unbelievably toxic environment.

I’m sorry that you’re interpreting reports of voice comms as a toxic environment, but without having experienced it for yourself, I find it quite unfair for you to paint the various and different server communities with such a broad brush.

As a member of the gaming community in many, many games over the last 15 years, with many, many friends in them to tell me all about it, plus what I see in chat and, cough, forums, it’s a fair statement. If your particular TS community is pleasant and welcoming, I’m glad to hear it.

I asked people on TS about this last night and some said that PvE has far less tolerant commanders because they aren’t a community, they just hop on, say stuff and disappear – the infrequency of PvE events, the megaserver and the large PvE playerbase together mean they don’t get well known.

That’s what I was told, anyway. It’s not like that on the WvW voice comms I’ve been on.

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, I just wanted to say, while yes they can set up their squad however they want, they can’t tell you that you have to follow a different tag. They don’t have that right.

(While you didn’t state otherwise, I just wanted to clarify that point in case anyone reading your post got the wrong impression.)

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

You can’t keep complaining about being excluded from advertised content (squads) when the option to tag up yourself is available to you but you choose not to do it.

You also can’t keep acting holier than thou when you spent hours spamming team chat ruining the game experience for hundreds of people because 1 person offended you.

I think we can all agree that if you’re on TS, you also don’t matter.
The Commanders mostly ignore the people and just expect them to move like chess pieces, ragequiting when a pidgeon strolls on the board

Zephyra.4709:

@ Eater of Peeps.9062

Sorry, this thread has really gone places since my last comment in here.

With all due respect, (I’m not going to read through every swathe of comments so I’m not sure if you already have tried TS) has the following scenario ever occurred to you that you had been in TS one day – were you ever kicked from that commander’s squad since that requirement alone is all that was requested? Putting myself in your shoes reaching that far the only issue one may have would be someone pursuing you regarding a specific question e.g; “Want stab 1 or 2?” and even then, it’d make sense for that pursuer to relay the question via typing in-game thus making your position in squad locked in.

If not I beg to probe, what harm would it be other than having a program running in the background (TS/discord etc), admittedly uselessly due to aforementioned disability(s), so, to you?

I understand your desire to play the game as advertised (not requiring TS), unfortunately I have nothing useful to suggest otherwise to improve upon that since the trend/advance in outlier programs has led players to band together via these very voice chat programs that exist and of course – it’s not feasible to revert back to the launch days of text-based gameplay “typemanders”.

I never asked for a typemander. I cannot access TS for 3 reasons, one of which is that TS can be a humiliating experience for deaf ppl. I know it is for me. TS is ok, mandatory TS is not cool.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

You can’t keep complaining about being excluded from advertised content (squads) when the option to tag up yourself is available to you but you choose not to do it.

You also can’t keep acting holier than thou when you spent hours spamming team chat ruining the game experience for hundreds of people because 1 person offended you.

I don’t have 300 g. I cant be a cmdr, cant afford it – so its not a matter of choosing or not, its a matter of I’m poor in the game. Also, I don’t particularly want to lead, and admire and try to always reward cmdrs when I am in squad. Also, when there is a squad already running, w/ a cap limit on wvw population (not an unlimited pool of players or instances), how viable is it that anyone would follow me when there is already a much bigger squad running? Many times I have seen other people tag up, who not only get 1 or 2 followers at most, but they are subjected to derision by many players for no good reason. Not a particularly viable option, which I can’t afford anyway.

I have never acted holier than thou, Idk what u r talking about.

My game play was ruined as well. The cmdr could have solved everyone’s prob very easily. I would have been instantly quiet.

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

O please. It is precisely unsportsmanlike and certainly not the “friendly community” I keep hearing about. It was a very exclusionary behavior, which the cmdr had every “right” to do, but which I am complaining about and will continue to complain about. It was the cmdr’s call – no one disputes that. And he did regrettably do it. And I am reacting to his decision, and will continue to do so. It was quite egregious and personal in my op.

There was nothing here for the cmdr to “remember.” He asked for TS. I immediately pmed him and explained I was deaf and that I would like to stay in squad, where I had been successfully playing all day. I pmed him many times after that, quite politely and reasonably, to the point I felt humiliated in the face of his responses (and the responses of his team support) and then I began to protest after that. There was nothing here for the cmdr to managed. It was a partially full squad. I contacted him politely and explained my circumstance. I’m not sure what else ppl expect I should have done at that pt? Just gone away in silence so u can all have fun while I shut off the game? Thx for that. So fun, so friendly, so non-elitist, so professional. A good experience was had by all!

And for what exactly? Pls tell me exactly what the cmdr gained in my instance by booting me, when playing beside the zerg is the exact same thing as playing in squad w/o TS. Where was the harm? Where was the gain?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

I didn’t know you have such a global impact after getting dropped from the squad. Iirc, BG still won the skirmishes during the three hours you were engaging on your Team Chat conquest instead of scoring points. Many bags have been had.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

O please. It is precisely unsportsmanlike and certainly not the “friendly community” I keep hearing about. It was a very exclusionary behavior, which the cmdr had every “right” to do, but which I am complaining about and will continue to complain about. It was the cmdr’s call – no one disputes that. And he did regrettably do it. And I am reacting to his decision, and will continue to do so. It was quite egregious and personal in my op.

There was nothing here for the cmdr to “remember.” He asked for TS. I immediately pmed him and explained I was deaf and that I would like to stay in squad, where I had been successfully playing all day. I pmed him many times after that, quite politely and reasonably, to the point I felt humiliated in the face of his responses (and the responses of his team support) and then I began to protest after that. There was nothing here for the cmdr to managed. It was a partially full squad. I contacted him politely and explained my circumstance. I’m not sure what else ppl expect I should have done at that pt? Just gone away in silence so u can all have fun while I shut off the game? Thx for that. So fun, so friendly, so non-elitist, so professional. A good experience was had by all!

And for what exactly? Pls tell me exactly what the cmdr gained in my instance by booting me, when playing beside the zerg is the exact same thing as playing in squad w/o TS. Where was the harm? Where was the gain?

It’s not unsportsmanlike to kick someone from a group that has reasonable rules, which his group had. Requiring TS is not unreasonable.

Oh, so he was supposed to ask you to get on TS everytime he noticed you weren’t on TS? Otherwise, yes remembering that you are deaf is something else that has to be remembered.

And how about taking a deep breath and and actually reading the replies from people who have explained the benefits of TS to you. You may be better trained at acting reflexively when something moves given that you’re deaf. Because you’ve had to train yourself that way since you don’t hear any visual tells. The majority don’t and react faster to auditory tells than visual tells.

And there are pros and cons to being strict vs relaxed and the points in between. For those that are strict, it means if the commander says something will happen, it will. Players don’t have to worry about the commander flip flopping. But players that aren’t meeting requirements don’t get the squad benefits. Nothing is all good or all bad and yes, it’s unfortunate that you fall under the bad side of strict commanders.

But as my mom says, your reaction made a mountain out of a mole hill. I used to do that, then I realized that it’s a waste of energy. And she also says to choose your battles. Your not going to make a strict commander make an exception.

Iris Ng.9845:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

I didn’t know you have such a global impact after getting dropped from the squad. Iirc, BG still won the skirmishes during the three hours you were engaging on your Team Chat conquest instead of scoring points. Many bags have been had.

Yes, and when I joined back in u got them faster. And when I was running earlier w/ u u got them faster.

I didn’t say I had a global impact. I said the squad did better with me in it than with me out of it. Think about it, if I’m throwing one or two heals at u u benefitted. If I killed 1 or 2 guys u benefitted. If I’m running alongside, I’m less effective, and squad is impacted. And if I’m on TC complaining and dealing w. trolls, no one is getting benefitted. Not a hard concept and still a truth, despite efforts to deminimize the impact of what I am protesting once again.

Responding to Seera:

“It’s not unsportsmanlike to kick someone from a group that has reasonable rules, which his group had. Requiring TS is not unreasonable.

Oh, so he was supposed to ask you to get on TS everytime he noticed you weren’t on TS? Otherwise, yes remembering that you are deaf is something else that has to be remembered.

And how about taking a deep breath and and actually reading the replies from people who have explained the benefits of TS to you. You may be better trained at acting reflexively when something moves given that you’re deaf. Because you’ve had to train yourself that way since you don’t hear any visual tells. The majority don’t and react faster to auditory tells than visual tells.

And there are pros and cons to being strict vs relaxed and the points in between. For those that are strict, it means if the commander says something will happen, it will. Players don’t have to worry about the commander flip flopping. But players that aren’t meeting requirements don’t get the squad benefits. Nothing is all good or all bad and yes, it’s unfortunate that you fall under the bad side of strict commanders.

But as my mom says, your reaction made a mountain out of a mole hill. I used to do that, then I realized that it’s a waste of energy. And she also says to choose your battles. Your not going to make a strict commander make an exception."

My Response:

Requiring TS of a deaf person is unreasonable. (And none of his business really, and actually personally humiliating for me to have to reveal it to him, but w/e.) It is also unsportsmanlike and not the type of casual friendly play Anet wants and encourages. Its alienating and demoralizing. Booting ppl for having a Rank 80 class the cmdr doesn’t want and cant cope with in a non-full squad is also unreasonable and unsportsmanlike as well.

Cmdr wasn’t supposed to ask me anything. He asked for TS. I pm’ed him and told him I couldn’t. We had several pms about the reasons why I couldn’t – chief among them that I am deaf. He didn’t care. Plain and simple.

There is nothing here for Cmdr to remember. There is nothing for him to sort out/manage. There is nothing for him to check about TS as it relates to me, as he knows I am not on it, and cannot go on it and will never be on it. He either lets me in or doesn’t. He chose didn’t. I chose to react.

Idc that most “hearing” people benefit and improve their game play from TS. How nice for them. How great for the game mode (truly!). I am proud to have them as my teammates with their improved play.

I am not a gaming disgrace to any squad. I’ve been wvw’ing a long time, since beta. I think I get how to play. How do u justify the boot? Please tell me, I’m all ears.

I’m glad I can count on this rigid cmdr to not flip flop on his decision to use his leadership skills to be unreasonably and harshly exclusionary.

So nice that I don’t get the squad benefits. Good to know. I paid my money just like everyone else, and I had boosters running that day that I also paid real life money for (I am poor in game as well).

Yes, it is unfortunate for me that I fell under the “bad side of a strict cmdr.” I was punished nicely. And for what exactly? How did the squad benefit from my boot?

Mountain to me, molehill to u. I went on TC for the time I was booted and complained. How is that a mountain? Cuz u were annoyed? Me too. I was hurt, demoralized, alienated and humiliated that day. It felt like a mountain to me. My boosters were largely wasted, I got less pips (cuz running alongside the zerg rewards less pips), I got less protections. What did u get? And what precisely was the net team positive effect from my boot (beside the fact some don’t like me because I rarely, tho passionately and loudly, complain about unfair game play?

Don’t make a mountain out of my complaining. Pick ur battles. Being on here vociferously supporting a “strict cmdr” who engages in unreasonably exclusionary practices is not what I would characterize as a winning battle. But that’s me. U do what u want. I will do what I want.

Maybe I cant make the Nice, reasonable but “strict” cmdr change his ways. But I’m gonna keep complaining and doing w/e I have to do to help him hear my msg. Maybe Anet can make him change. Maybe they will hear my call for help to prevent others from being singled out, humiliated and booted to the corner or out of wvw game mode altogether.

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Tag up yourself and be and inclusive as you want. Stop trying to force your rules on everyone else. You remind me of the little kids that would take their ball and go home when things didn’t go their way.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Tag up yourself and be and inclusive as you want. Stop trying to force your rules on everyone else. You remind me of the little kids that would take their ball and go home when things didn’t go their way.

Funnily enough that description works exceptionally well for some commanders =P

This thread is tantamount to what I have experienced in wvw. Endless so called elitists doing content they think is “hard” or “serious.” (which I assure you its not, ive played tons of mmo’s since 2001 and this game mode is a joke comparatively to some of the things I’ve played in relation to what I would consider “hard” or “serious”). Let’s be honest the last time wvw was really a thing was in 2014 with tournaments. Why is everyone so exclusionary and elitist with a game mode that is basically on life support.

wvwers should be glad that anyone even pays attention to this game mode at this point and be kind and inclusive to everyone. I would say half the wvw population I have seen is very happy to get new players interested, and the other half for some reason wants to insult them and tell them to go away? – which I don’t understand cuz the game mode needs players badly. Or i guess the message they’re sending is come be rude with us and play w/us but only if your willing to be lord of the flies w/us as well. Some are nice however and helpful, but they usually aren’t as vocal.

Needing teamspeak to play wvw in 2017 lol pretty silly. Maybe if it was a tournament and winning at the end of the week meant something… as it stands it only lets you get pips faster until you hit the cap. Asking someone who’s deaf to be in teamspeak though, even more silly.

I find it extremely amusing when a commander has 36/50 says TS invite only, then gets his 36 players in TS, wipes and then says not everyone is on TS. I mean common….
I get it this is internet culture in 2017 but, really?… I mean it does get old.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Tag up yourself and be and inclusive as you want. Stop trying to force your rules on everyone else. You remind me of the little kids that would take their ball and go home when things didn’t go their way.

I had to go home – didn’t have a choice. Cant afford to “tag up.” Too poor.

Y wouldn’t I be inclusive? Y shouldn’t everyone? We all paid to play exactly the same.

My rule – if only 1 cmdr on in a land w/ a non-full squad, no boot cept for afkers of a few minutes. Exactly what Anet intended when they implemented (many yrs post launch) the boot option.

So u mean, don’t play by Anet’s rules as the game was intended/designed to be played?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

-snip-

Your answer is in your response. You play fine without Teamspeak and, according to you, better than most. Why do you need it, then? Validation? Because you think you need to prove something to people?

I’m a mute. I have the benefit of being able to use TS to listen, but I can’t talk. Even so, I never use TS because I don’t care to. I don’t care if I’m not invited/kicked from squads and I don’t care if the commander thinks badly of me. I’m not playing to impress anyone.

I’ll give my best effort because I don’t want to be a dead weight, not because I give a kitten whether I’m good or not according to someone else’s standards. You might want to try that some time before always playing the victim.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Tag up yourself and be and inclusive as you want. Stop trying to force your rules on everyone else. You remind me of the little kids that would take their ball and go home when things didn’t go their way.

I had to go home – didn’t have a choice. Cant afford to “tag up.” Too poor.

Y wouldn’t I be inclusive? Y shouldn’t everyone? We all paid to play exactly the same.

My rule – if only 1 cmdr on in a land w/ a non-full squad, no boot cept for afkers of a few minutes. Exactly what Anet intended when they implemented (many yrs post launch) the boot option.

So u mean, don’t play by Anet’s rules as the game was intended/designed to be played?

If you had devoted half as much time farming gold as you’ve spent complaining you’d have your commander tag by now.
Until you actually tag up and command what you “would” do is irrelevant because the general impression you give off is that you’d rage quit about 10 min after tagging up.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

-snip-

Your answer is in your response. You play fine without Teamspeak and, according to you, better than most. Why do you need it, then? Validation? Because you think you need to prove something to people?

I’m a mute. I have the benefit of being able to use TS to listen, but I can’t talk. Even so, I never use TS because I don’t care to. I don’t care if I’m not invited/kicked from squads and I don’t care if the commander thinks badly of me. I’m not playing to impress anyone.

I’ll give my best effort because I don’t want to be a dead weight, not because I give a kitten whether I’m good or not according to someone else’s standards. You might want to try that some time before always playing the victim.

Always play the victim? I rarely speak in game and when I do, its to point out unsportsmanlike, exclusionary, or inappropriate play. I think the last time I actually spoke in WvW before this week was about 2 yrs ago. So I don’t understand.

I am not playing the victim. I have never played the victim. Though I was victimized.

You can’t have it both ways. A victim is someone who has been victimized and doesn’t fight back. I am hardly doing that. I was victimized, but I am not a victim because I am fighting back. And you don’t like it. Hardly playing the victim. U want me to take my lumps and go away and be silently sulking in a corner. I won’t.

I’ve already explained why, just like many ppl in this thread: I was precluded unreasonably from any squad game play that day and the squad wasn’t full and there was only 1 cmdr. There are benefits to being in a squad, including buffs, protections, rezzes, pips/rewards, etc. There is zero downside to me being in the squad – unless u all just think I am the worst player in all of GW or deliberately sabotaging the squad, or afking, none of which is true.

I don’t need TS. I can’t use it. I don’t need a squad – I prefer it, and its an advertised feature of the game and I paid to play and I enjoy playing. Nowhere does it say: Warning you can be booted from squad for any or no reason, including reasons that may be exclusionary/discriminatory, and certainly may be poor sportsmanship. Don’t forget, the ability for a cmdr to boot was added much later in the game to allow cmdrs to boot afkers. It was never intended to encourage alienating, exclusionary game play.

Thank you for elucidating for me what your game play style is like and what you care about when you play. Sounds Great! Sadly, I don’t seem to be able to adopt your viewpoints on how to play or on what is the most enjoyable way to play.

I need zero validation. I am not trying to impress anyone. I am trying to play the game I paid for and love to play, in all of its forms. I would like to not get abused for voicing my opinion and/or frustration. I would like to not be excluded from game play unreasonably and exclusionarily.

I play my best, in earnest, every single time I log into GW, regardless of game mode. I am never dead weight, and I take offense if you are implying that I am dead weight, when I am clearly not.

I don’t know what kind of person it would take to be horrible at gw after 14 yrs of playing it, or wvw after 5 yrs of play, but whatever that person would be its not me. I play well. I know it. Those are the standards I set for myself and live up to each time I play.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Excuse #532 on why I’m too lazy to tag….

You know that little arrow at the bottom right corner of everyone’s post? Yeah that quotes the post for you. You already repeat the same failed arguments often enough, you don’t need to copy/paste everything else in the thread too.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I am not playing the victim. I have never played the victim. Though I was victimized.

^Lol @ this comment.

That also works.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Zephyra.4709:

@ Eater of Peeps.9062

Sorry, this thread has really gone places since my last comment in here.

With all due respect, (I’m not going to read through every swathe of comments so I’m not sure if you already have tried TS) has the following scenario ever occurred to you that you had been in TS one day – were you ever kicked from that commander’s squad since that requirement alone is all that was requested? Putting myself in your shoes reaching that far the only issue one may have would be someone pursuing you regarding a specific question e.g; “Want stab 1 or 2?” and even then, it’d make sense for that pursuer to relay the question via typing in-game thus making your position in squad locked in.

If not I beg to probe, what harm would it be other than having a program running in the background (TS/discord etc), admittedly uselessly due to aforementioned disability(s), so, to you?

I understand your desire to play the game as advertised (not requiring TS), unfortunately I have nothing useful to suggest otherwise to improve upon that since the trend/advance in outlier programs has led players to band together via these very voice chat programs that exist and of course – it’s not feasible to revert back to the launch days of text-based gameplay “typemanders”.

I never asked for a typemander. I cannot access TS for 3 reasons, one of which is that TS is a humiliating experience for the deaf. TS is ok, mandatory TS is not cool.

Having sifted through various comments of yours, not all, I felt the gist that you wanted to “play the game how it was advertised”; 4-5 years ago hence on launch many players engaging in text-based gameplay/typemanding was at large. Sorry if that was not clear enough or if I interpreted that incorrectly.

I have tried to understand your situation and retain empathy yet one comment in particular confuses me – “the deaf” as in yourself alone or are you speaking for every deaf player that’s tried TS? I cannot help but feel like your answer is hogwash in terms of “humiliating experience” akin to lacking resilience in one’s self and moving on – to drop one section of communication entirely due to one “humiliating experience” in my eyes shouldn’t be something that deters you but strengthens you as an individual and learning new ways to tackle issues. Not only this but your 2 other reasons are absent therefore I have little to work with in terms of a response.

I am adamant in my belief that a requirement of “get in TS” via commander’s orders is all that is requested of an individual and that that alone is all that needs to be done in order to retain a position within a squad regardless whether or not that individual has a disability(s)…

…To put it bluntly but with all due respect; to simply join TS and be present, not needing to speak and/or listen to what’s going in within should still qualify as retaining a position within the squad.

TS is only mandatory if a commander advertises/requests/demands as such and you wish to be part of that commander’s squad. I am sorry if you continue to regard that as uncool but that is one of many walks in life you’ll come across.

I think once in a while it wouldn’t hurt for new players to join TS and get a general idea about how the flow of squads should work in fights like positioning etc, at least just a few times to learn from the fights. Then they can just figure what’s going on and what can help the group without having to be in squad or ts. At least, if they don’t join the squad but want to follow tag, just stick on them and you’ll be good – you won’t have to hear them screaming on ts or deal with any elitism if present and you can play what/however you want. Just be careful though hehehe they might use you as collateral if they end up doing a sneaky maneuver. Don’t forget, one of the most important thing is situational awareness cos rambo leads to respawning.
Personally I am lucky not to have to deal with commanders with elitist attitudes the majority of the time – yes there are times some have said stuff like “rallybots”, “kick the upscales”, “kick thieves and rangers”, but I only experienced this last year for a short time when pressure was high on my server due to being outnumbered all the time. I didn’t like their attitudes with things like this because I can understand people want to have their own fun too but I noticed that those commanders have also changed over time – now I only see all of them trying to help everyone and motivate them. Our commanders like to explain moves, and help people understand builds and even give links to builds that can help. They accept that people want to play on their class and builds though, but they just educate those and make them aware of what can help. We even have practice maneuvers once in a while just to get the group in sync. We also have comms that don’t use ts and they do fine because most of the group understands what needs to be done or they are used to the comm, and the new players learn quick. We also have all kinds of comms on my server like rangers and thieves and it’s fun lol (this is even before the update). All in all though I think ts is a benefit but not a requirement. Unless it’s spr srs bzns and we need to take that kitten t3 from enemy.
It’s kind of odd though, I’ve become accustomed to the voices of the people from my server, listening to someone from another server feels so awkward. I think the most hilarious thing I’ve heard on ts was a comm that was speaking like a million words a second. I don’t even know how he could also type, fight and talk like that at same time without his brain exploding.

TS is relative to who the commander and who they are fighting. I don’t think TS is mandatory for half the fights these days. Outside of trying to siege a t3 keep with 50 + nerds humping it.

I’m kinda with the OP, TS has its advantages if used correctly and overall can be a terrible exerpience. It’s also not limited to just a server (CD) in this case and I’m on CD playing on and off.

When I want to raid seriously with my guys, I expect them on TS and the squad is invite only to pugs we’ve known and trust that can move with us. Alot of us use mini maps to re position. So having wrong people in squad that are squirrelling throws things off. Then on the other hand, we haven’t even had to use serious coms or any coms when I just tag up for giggles since wvw revival 2k17 patch.

Seen too many people cry to get on TS and it’s just a a bunch of virgin emo kids looking for a social hour. Or you go the other end of the spectrum buncha grumpy old retirees talking about what kind of the latest adult pampers was just released. Listened in on a bunch of new commanders on TS the past couple weeks. I would say 80% of them are only good before a fight and stutter in silence once the first bomb goes off. And that goes for their own players too.

TLDR: TS coms aren’t what they used to be when guilds and players actually took WvW fights seriously.

ImLegion.4018:

Seeing all these weird complaints in the forums I can only reckon there are alot of pve players who cannot handle the WvW community.

Well im complaining, and my complaints are reasoned and logical. I also spvp and pve and wvw. What exactly can I not handle about the wvw community? Do they know something secret? even though I play the same game that they do – and then some?

There are nuances to wvw just like there are ways to get thru PvE dungeons and raid efficiently. Also think of WvW like your army and PvE is the civilians. If you dumped 100 civilians into the frontlines of war and they didn’t listen to the commander, some of them will probably figure out how to live but most won’t and would need some direction to get a sense of what is going on. I’m a commander who can lead with or without TS or just need a core group in TS and we carry everyone else. I also make it a point to take time when I can to type out overall goals or overall general movements so the nonTS ppl do not become bomb fodder. Other commanders use the nonTS ppl as bomb bait.

There are combat manouevers used in WvW that are a lot easier to do if everyone at least puts an ear in TS but it’s been proven you can win both ways. The more skilled people you have the easier it is to do without TS but I understand not everyone wants to hear some of the crazy stuff or ragey stuff.

If a commander wants ppl in TS then they need to make it more inviting and take responsibility when your actions or inactions is what actually kills your group. It’s not always the pugs. However I would suggest you try every commander’s TS at least once. Not every commander is bad in comms so putting a blanket comment on all commanders is just as bad as commanders saying all pugs are bad, which they are not.

Pugs on the other hand need to learn who the less desirable commanders are and follow ones that suit them better or are more open to squad requirements. If you want to follow a tag that is 20 strong with guildies then expect guild requirements like a TS requirement because that’s how that guild chooses to operate. If you can keep up w/o TS then good for you. I personally do a lot of training w/o use of comms following other commanders because I want to keep skills sharper and I’ll do the walk of shame when I mess up but since I do this when I do tag up and lead, I don’t require it 100% to follow me. I’d rather have pugs who aren’t on TS be able to keep up with me than pugs on TS who hear everything and die anyways. Granted some of them might just be new so they need TS to read the field better or understand why you need to bait a bomb because certain enemies have certain patterns just like PvE bosses so once you learn the pattern it’s a bag farm. Servers like NSP or SoS get 80 ppl in TS but servers with an organized guild group and pugs with less ppl in TS can kill their whole map blob because regardless of comms, the skill level is overall lower and the server with less in comms but more skill will carry the day.

As someone that’s been part of many a zerg over the years, never been in a teamspeak room at all, I feel slightly offended that I’ve not been the victim of elitism. Well, I can’t really say ‘never’. I did go into a TS room with an EBG commander once. After about 5 minutes, promptly left. 50 or 60 people screaming at, and insulting each other, with no real direction at all, gave me a wicked headache. :/

I build for solo roaming, as I do not have a ‘guild’, so to speak, to WvW with. And while I have gotten the occasional squad invite for zerging, and for more often small havoc squads in enemy BL’s. Teamspeak is never a ‘requirement’, and no one to my knowledge has ever been kicked for illegitimate reasons. Maybe I’m just lucky, or the people that tag up when I’m around are reasonable people. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows?

Only if you aren’t actually paying attention. If you’re in TS but aren’t following the commander, paying attention or need to l2p it doesn’t matter anyway lmao. You might as well just tell people to “git gud” because you’ll never get everyone into TS and they have no obligation to do so, especially when drama in map chat carries over to voice comms. No one wants to listen to that garbage. It’s a game and people are here to have fun, teach people how to play their class, not yell at them for not using third party programs IMO.

OP you should probably switch servers or stick with a guild group, or you’ll always flip when you run into pugs lmao

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

How does the zerg not get your heals? Not being in a squad in WvW does not prevent you from playing the game. While I think elitism in general is fricking terrible, if a commander was actually strict enough to boot players until all 50 were people in TS, hell that means your zerg is gonna be hella dedicated and stomp over pug zergs which is even better for capping and loot. You can always get better gear, it’s pointless to complain about dying in a zerg when there are always steps to take to perform better, squad or no. I don’t know what your problem is unless you’ve irritated commanders and get kicked for that reason? Lol

Mal.1670:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

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Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

How does the zerg not get your heals? Not being in a squad in WvW does not prevent you from playing the game. While I think elitism in general is fricking terrible, if a commander was actually strict enough to boot players until all 50 were people in TS, hell that means your zerg is gonna be hella dedicated and stomp over pug zergs which is even better for capping and loot. You can always get better gear, it’s pointless to complain about dying in a zerg when there are always steps to take to perform better, squad or no. I don’t know what your problem is unless you’ve irritated commanders and get kicked for that reason? Lol

He got kicked a few days for not having TS and was not planning on getting on it before a squad was full when a commander switched from one who didn’t require TS to one who did. He’s got a logical reason for not having TS, he’s deaf.

However, instead of just accepting that life isn’t fair and the commander was just fine to kick for not meeting the requirements, he proceeded to rant and rave in team chat for 3 hours about it.

Therefore he’s probably got himself a pretty bad reputation tagging along that may be causing him issues. You don’t forget a 3 hour rant and rave in team chat when WvW is so busy there are queues in a few days.

For 3 days I’ve encountered 7 cmdrs booting ppl (not afk) in not-full squads for elitist reasons (no TS, not rt class, we don’t like u, etc.).

In 3 days, after waiting in hr ques, I was unable to join squads on various maps for more than 10 hrs . Either cmdrs r punitive cuz I’m vocal/dissenting, disturbing their “rt to command” or else (as I suspect) the practice is prevalent.

Here’s the prob – I’ve yet to be given any good reason Y these cmdrs have the rt to be unreasonably elitist and boot ppl from part full squads when they r the only cmdr on a map for hrs on end. I’m not talking full/guild squads. Population is capped. There’s not an endless pool of available cmdrs so I can’t just go elsewhere (like in raids, etc). It’s a closed mode w/ limits.

Here r my issues:

Popping boosters running w/ squads, only to get booted by new cmdrs in part-full squads. Boosters r wasted. I WONT BE BUYING THEM AGAIN w/ hard earned money if I can’t use them w/ efficient game play. I’m CERTAIN ANET doesn’t want that!

If I don’t/won’t access TS, I am w/o TS in squad or out. If in squad w/o TS I play the same and do the same things as when I play w/o TS and am out of squad. Its the exact same thing. Same is true of rangers who play on same class in or out of squad. I get it if squad is full or guild, then cmdr wants players that best suit tactics/use TS or w/e. But thats not what’s occurring. Its mean spirited boots for no reason in half-full squads when our server needs us in a team-based game mode.

I’m not disputing TS helps. It should not be a mandatory exclusionary tool. Reasons given make no sense.

If we r booted (for w/e elitist reason) from squad several bad things happen:

I am hurt in play cuz boosters are not as effective. I get less or no protections/heals/buffs from squad and less tag credits/rank up/pips/rewards/etc. I die more. I get disgruntled/play less effectively, and won’t help cmdr/squad cuz Y would I? Feelings r hurt, alienation occurs.

Then what do I do? Zerg build/armor/weaps, so solo/roaming is out. There’s a que and boosters popped, so don’t want to reroll. Other maps r full. No other cmdrs on map. Population cap. I’m willing/able to play/want to join. I’m not bad player (vet); that shouldn’t matter anyway, as its casual game in unique team-based mode. All should be welcome. How does this foster good community or welcome environment for newbies or “pvers” (w/e that is)? We should take all – esp when squad is 1/2 full. We need all the help we can get.

If I run beside squad, squad is hurt cuz they don’t know/care to heal me and I don’t know who to heal. Purpose of tiered organization is to protect those around me in tier (who needs it most – ele/necro? – I don’t know green dot’s class), and be protected/work in tandem. I can’t heal others effectively if I don’t know who likely needs it most or where to position myself for max usefulness (heal cmdr only?).

If I die more, squad is hurt cuz ppl rez more often, wasting precious kill time. It makes sense ppl heal/rez blue dots and not green dot outcasts. Thus, zerg overall suffers and we lose zerg battles we should win due to lack of structure/max coordination (including ranger classes and non-TS players cuz we’re already in map). Letting those players into squad, when they WANT TO BE playing, helps squad. If they want to be in non-full squad, they should be. Team needs ‘em and they’re available. Include them as part of squad and don’t refuse them for ….o wait, Idk Y -reasons given don’t hold up. So it just feels prejudicial at this pt.

Y would anyone running with zerg contribute to cmdr who booted them? Most wont. Zerg is hurt. Already in map – Y refuse entry to squad? Bad blood all around.

No matter how respectful I ask to join, gaggles of elitists ALWAYS throw 1st personal attack/troll comment. Not friendly. Y? What did I do? Ask to join?

If I’m following tag closely, kitten many claim I should, I may get benefit of random heals. But if I’m following tag closely, I’m doing a good job following, so Y can’t I be in squad? Makes NO SENSE. There’s no reason for the exclusion. I paid my money just like u.

There’s no detriment to squad if I join. NONE. But THERE IS DETRIMENT to SQUAD if I am forced to run beside it. It hurts me, squad, server and game (as above). Sometimes it almost feels deliberately anti-server. Its certainly prejudicial to game play and unfriendly/exclusionary when Anet/ppl r encouraging all to join this game, esp WvW, which needs ppl to sustain it.

C) I would like ppl to help me help WvW. Let ppl who want to join squads. No more exclusionary “this is my tag I do what I want.” That shouldn’t be allowed if ur the only tag on map and squad is NOT FULL. “I do what I want” is not a good reason. Its exclusionary and elitist. Stop stamping feet over and over saying “its my tag I do what I want.” U shouldn’t be able to in this scenario (raids, guilds, w/e – ok do w/e u want). This is a population-capped, team-based mode! Stop hurting servers! We lost and shouldn’t have -reason? Squad of 15/zerg followers of 15 (many wanted to join – not allowed). Putting them in tiered squad would’ve helped and would’ve utilized the entire available/willing player base to max effectiveness (whether rangers or off TS).

I want to win with robust populations and fun active play, not slow, stand around, we failed now who do we blame talk for 20 mins w/ food/boosters wastin. IDC if we ktrain or open field zerg. I like it all. So do others. Let them play with u, not beside u. UR SQUAD’S NOT FULL! U NEED OUR HELP!

I don’t want to lead. I’m highly respectful, thanking/rewarding to cmdrs. Polite to do to someone who volunteers time/effort to lead/manage a big grp across lg maps.

I’d like community’s help stopping this exclusionary practice as it harms people, squads, servers and a great game I love for 14 yrs! Show a little respect to Anet pls and help them have the game we all want!

Duke Dark Hart.1385:

I’ve been on CD for maybe a year now through all types of fluctuations and i stay because i love it. It’s home. both my self and my guild even if we are small have poured our hearts into CD. Tonight a blanket statement was made by someone i respect that’s a major voice on CD even if that respect only goes in one direction. That if you don’t use TS than your not an asset because you aren’t really helping. I’m sure a lot of people feel that way. I know its a big help in wvw. But it was really the first time in a year i felt like wow kitten my server.

Even if we were roamers which we aren’t we are a small ops guild of seasoned vets that responds to all major calls from tags and larger guilds for aid. I feel like that’s a pretty big kitten you to people that put in time and effort but don’t use TS. I guess i just needed to vent because if I didn’t i was gonna seethe about it until i moved my entire guild to a new server.

I don’t see why roamers not in the squad or following the tag need to be in ts3. Did you misunderstood the meanings or did you read it partially like missing the lines above the other lines or cross chat/ts3 topic? If you didn’t then yes, you should openly put down the commander.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

For 3 days I’ve encountered 7 cmdrs booting ppl (not afk) in not-full squads for elitist reasons (no TS, not rt class, we don’t like u, etc.).

In 3 days, after waiting in hr ques, I was unable to join squads on various maps for more than 10 hrs . Either cmdrs r punitive cuz I’m vocal/dissenting, disturbing their “rt to command” or else (as I suspect) the practice is prevalent.

-Quote trimmed for space-

Just because you disagree with the benefits of keeping squads to those who fit the requirements doesn’t make them not valid or bad reasons.

It’s not horrible for commanders of squads to have requirements to be in their squad and to boot them when the requirements aren’t things that violate the TOS. And a requirement for TS is not a violation of the TOS.

Here are some suggestion:

1. Apologize for how you handled being kicked. Your disapproval with his decision did not warrant a rant in team chat, no matter how wrong or how right his decision actually was. That was something that should have been handled in a whisper or messages. Not in team chat where it disrupted everyone’s else ability to play. And mean it.

2. Acknowledge that you know why you were kicked. You don’t have to agree with his judgement call that the benefits of squad management prior to squad being full outweigh the cons, but that you realize that he does.

3. Talk with others who don’t tend to be in squads how they handle buffs and armor sets if the roam when they’re not able to find a commander willing to have them in their squad. Ask the commander if he has any suggestions or other players.

4. Learn how to roam or to scout or join/form a havoc squad to take the smaller sites that don’t require a zerg.

I wasn’t there so I don’t know if the commander handled your rant well or not or if he was able to do more than just read it given that he was commanding, but sometimes the bigger person is the one that steps up and admits that they were at least partially at fault for the situation.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Popping boosters running w/ squads, only to get booted by new cmdrs in part-full squads. Boosters r wasted. I WONT BE BUYING THEM AGAIN w/ hard earned money if I can’t use them w/ efficient game play. I’m CERTAIN ANET doesn’t want that!

Maybe if you’d stop buying BOOSTERS of all things you’d have enough for a commander tag.

I’d just like to point out that some of the most “elitist” servers (namely BG, Mag, JQ, ) are the most active and coordinated servers in NA so your claim that exclusivity and elitism are a detriment to WvW is not very well founded. Historically, the servers that have been the most, for the lack of a better term, “carebear” have fallen dramatically (IoJ, TC come to mind.)

The practice of requiring TS to join certain squads is prevalent because it is the most optimal way to play the game. No commander needs to cater to the specific individual regardless of how “special” the individual might think they are. Everyone is subject to this. If other players refuse to use TS or can’t use it and aren’t invited to squad, why should you? I for one support the TS requirement in all at least semi-serious squad.

Can’t we all just agree to disagree? I don’t care for commanders that kick or require TS in order to be in their squad, however that doesn’t stop someone from either popping their own tag, getting a friend of guildie to pugmand or ask in chat if there is anyone willing to party with you despite not having TS.

Once people start talking about “infringing” on things, that should be an indication that its starting to go somewhere it doesn’t need to. (for reference, I pugmand without requiring TS and I do quite well without it as I typically call targets frequently and most of the party picks up on it, but some people need TS to achieve this or better coordination).

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I’d like community’s help stopping this exclusionary practice as it harms people, squads, servers and a great game I love for 14 yrs! Show a little respect to Anet pls and help them have the game we all want!

I agree, I think wvw commanders who exclude people for any reason (class/ts) when the squad is not full are hurting their own game mode and possibly even killing it, especially when they are the only ones tagged up in a map (unless its a guild group and they’re doing some sort of gvg. Then I feel bad for them because there is no gvg in game so I gotta give them that.)

Other then that its their squad their rules, just don’t be surprised when spvpers/pvers/new people get turned off quickly to wvw w/this type of behavior.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I’d like community’s help stopping this exclusionary practice as it harms people, squads, servers and a great game I love for 14 yrs! Show a little respect to Anet pls and help them have the game we all want!

I agree, I think wvw commanders who exclude people for any reason (class/ts) when the squad is not full are hurting their own game mode and possibly even killing it, especially when they are the only ones tagged up in a map. But hey there squad there rules, just don’t be surprised when spvpers/pvers/new people get turned off quickly to wvw w/this type of behavior.

So run another tag and form a squad. The real problem is that people are generally closed minded and if they see a different name, they probably wouldn’t consider running anyway. To me, it is the people that defines the server, not only specific groups.