Potentially disastrous changes INC!
Hahaha I agree. They need a public test server to make sure thing are right instead of using regular servers as test servers.
There is no reason any AoE ability should do more to a single target, than a single target ability. You shouldn’t even argue that, ever.
What you should be trying to get them to do, is make it so that our AEs hit MORE targets, say 15, instead of 5.
But like all MMOs, the majority who play the classes who’re getting changed will fight tooth, and nail against the change, without offering up better alternatives, that are more reasonable.
My AoE’s do mediocore damage to max 5 targets, my single target abilities do sucky damage 1. The fix isn’t to give my AoEs sucky damage, but to give my single target abilities good damage.
The problem though is defense is so useless in this game, they just can’t up the damage to single target abilities, without really messing stuff up. So in my honest opinion, as someone who plays AE classes, among them the Elementalist, the AE Confusion Mesmer, and the Shortbow Thief, they need to lesson the damage our AEs do, and increase the number of targets hit.
I know I used the number 15, but the more I think about it, the more I believe the number of targets hit (depending on how much damage they remove) should be 20.
If they want to take the focus off AE damage in WvW and allow for melee trains/single target then they need to correct single target damage. Nerfing AoE’s in general isn’t the correct path to this “balance”. Some builds do need their AoE toned down, but again the path to “balance” for a melee train is to make that train worth while. Which would be a buff overall to survivable train builds and more pronounced a buff to CC in general.
This is an overreaction. They would have to cut AE damage by 75% to make it useless, and allow for these make believe melee trains you speak of, and I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen.
I’m not sure exactly what your arguing, so I’m just going to wait patiently for you to explain.
I’m arguing the change is needed, and people should not overreact to the change.
I don’t think AoE in general needs to be nerfed, so on that side I’ll have to disagree. Better management on Defense, Single target damage, and CC would have the same effect while opening up more avenues for WvW players to enjoy. I.E Melee Trains.
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
You should take into consideration that Guards are one of the classes with the lowest scaling HP pool. You need BOTH vit AND tough to properly mitigate; especially on a guardian. Do this same test with a warrior.
Ok so the best way for us to read exactly what chapman ment is this..
2 guys died to 1 guy in 5v5 structured SPVP. The 1 guy then used aoe to finsh them rather than stomp. Meaning now we must drop everything for a tiny part of game in terms of numbers playing and NERF AOE because of this.
Ugh. I just finished leveling and gearing an Elementalist with the plan to play Staff in WvW. The profession I hung up was a Grenade traited Engineer (lol). I can’t win. I don’t know if I have it in me to level another class.
This news has me worried.
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
I don’t disagree, I was curious which route you were going to take the statement though. DR’s , buggy mechanics or over indulgence in damaging stats.
I think it is a combination of all that you mentioned. The massive amount of “gain this on critical hits” items we have access to, with the lack of defensive items to counter them pretty much puts the ball in the hands of DPS builds, considering the diminishing returns for Power are minor in comparison to the diminishing returns for Toughness.
The issue is then compounded by the fact that groups can attain high stacks of Might, with sigils that give them additional Power through stacks, without a counter in defense for the extra damage.
Seriously… Anet… Do you have some playtesters playing WvW? And doing other things than Zerg? If anything, Aoe need a boost (cancel the 5 people max nonsense) to help smaller squads to down spam1 Zergs… Nerf Aoe and you’ll lose all the small scale guilds (running with 5-15 ppl). Do you really think that this is what is needed?
Could you explain what you mean by “defense is so useless in this game” , please?
3200 Armor isn’t much better than 2500 Armor. As a Thief, I tested this with a Guardian buddy of mine who changed servers to test it. With 2500 Armor, I killed him in 2.5 seconds, with 3200 Armor, I killed him in less than 3 seconds multiple times, so he went 100% into toughness, with toughness food, and such, putting his Armor to (if I remember correctly) to 3400, maybe 3500 Armor, and I killed him in just over 3 seconds.
Here is the kicker. I havn’t taken the time to upgrade my level 78 Exotic Beserker gear either.
The diminishing returns on Toughness, as it relates to Armor is drastic, not like the massive benefits we get from Power, and Precision, not to mention the extremely large pool of itemization you get from having a high critical hits, from food, and sigils.
You should take into consideration that Guards are one of the classes with the lowest scaling HP pool. You need BOTH vit AND tough to properly mitigate; especially on a guardian. Do this same test with a warrior.
I will have to get back to you on this. Though I would assume under the same conditions I’d kill in 5 seconds, which isn’t a lot honestly. Maxed out vitality/toughness Warrior will have what, 28k hit points by the end of a WvW week?
Currently I don’t see any show stopping AoE damage besides Mesmer bombs.I’m just not seeing the reasoning behind nerfing AoE in general. Perhaps it’s a way to nerf D/D Ele’s without coming right out and saying " Hey , yeah you , bend over ". Like I said there seems to be a better way to “balance” all this out without gutting AoE groups while opening the door for something lovingly refereed to as the melee assist train of Daoc.
Engineers AoE are going to get nerfed, hehehe.
Everyone is missing the point of this thread or even topic. Anet is only gonna nerf AOE now because of SPVP which has nothing to do with WvW. Yet now we will suffer because the WvW guys are standing behind Esports in any balance changes. Take mesmer portal.
If they nerf aoe, whether it’s the number it can hit, or by reducing the damage, they will have effectively eliminated necro as a class. Cleansing mostly negates the condition damage in WvW (a.k.a zergfest or cullfest), so you really only hurt people who are upleveled or afk. If they want us all to just run minion builds, they need to bring back the bone fiend armies of GW1 (pre-cap), cause the pets SUCK.
Everyone is missing the point of this thread or even topic. Anet is only gonna nerf AOE now because of SPVP which has nothing to do with WvW. Yet now we will suffer because the WvW guys are standing behind Esports in any balance changes. Take mesmer portal.
Why would they nerf AoE based on SPvP?
Elementalist AOE can hit you for 2,500++ (a tick I may add) and if you happen to walk into the spot getting aoe’d by multiple classes you can get killed really-really fast. AOE in its current form is area denial and the next patch won’t change that. It just means that you will have to focus on single target damage more than AOE if you want to kill somebody.
Also, it’s kind of silly that players can hit you harder than siege weapons.
while opening the door for something lovingly refereed to as the melee assist train of Daoc.
That was another reason I hated Midgard. Sooo many deaths. I may start have nightmares again.
Everyone is missing the point of this thread or even topic. Anet is only gonna nerf AOE now because of SPVP which has nothing to do with WvW. Yet now we will suffer because the WvW guys are standing behind Esports in any balance changes. Take mesmer portal.
Why would they nerf AoE based on SPvP?
All the balance changes in the game come from SPVP. Chapman just said on the livestream the AOE nerf was basically because 2 guys went down in Spvp to 1 and the 1 guy used AOE instead of stomping. Or finding more people in spvp teams doing aoe when people go down rather than stomping.
transcriptWe are encourage people […] to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
transcriptWvW is about large scale massive battle mentality where individual players are not as important
Anyone else think these statements are hilariously contradictory?
I would like to invite any Anet staff member who is responsable for making changes to WvW, Skills ect to come run with [FEAR] on SoR for reset. I would like to show you how we play.
Everyone is missing the point of this thread or even topic. Anet is only gonna nerf AOE now because of SPVP which has nothing to do with WvW. Yet now we will suffer because the WvW guys are standing behind Esports in any balance changes. Take mesmer portal.
Why would they nerf AoE based on SPvP?
All the balance changes in the game come from SPVP. Chapman just said on the livestream the AOE nerf was basically because 2 guys went down in Spvp to 1 and the 1 guy used AOE instead of stomping. Or finding more people in spvp teams doing aoe when people go down rather than stomping.
Wait, what? Really or is this an exaggeration?
Elementalist AOE can hit you for 2,500++ (a tick I may add) and if you happen to walk into the spot getting aoe’d by multiple classes you can get killed really-really fast. AOE in its current form is area denial and the next patch won’t change that. It just means that you will have to focus on single target damage more than AOE if you want to kill somebody.
Also, it’s kind of silly that players can hit you harder than siege weapons.
Then don’t walk into the red circles.
This change just makes greater numbers even more powerful, gg ANet.
While in the downed state, they take more damage than they would if they were up, and if anyone is trying to rez them, they become free kills to you as well.
Happy hunting.
They actually specifically said they didn’t like how effective that exact tactic was.
It was one of the reasons they said they wanted to nerf aoe.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
That video is nothing like 7v50, much like his earlier video was nothing like 4v30. He’s a good player, but you’re still full of it.
And please, do “talk your gang” into that – until you do, stop spreading blatant misinformation.
How many were they fighting? There was at least 35 there, most likely 45. Even if it wasn’t 50, it still proves my point, and shows you the reason AEs need to be toned down.
Just becuase you’re not as good as groups like this, or mine doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t show anything, but good players with superior tactics beating terrible players with no battle plan whatsoever. His aoe was hitting for what 1.5-3k? I hit people for 2-4k with autoattack.
All reducing the aoe damage is going to do is promote zerg style play instead of tactical/strategic thinking.
Only way I would be for reduced aoe dmg is if they increased the number people affected within a radius of multiple aoe’s to make up for lost damage.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
…what…
Exarthious, you’re full of it. Please do provide proof of you killing ~55 players with your 1 group.
Ya, I gotta kinda call BS on this one, too. I can see 1:3 odds, so if you had a group of like 15-20, you could take down a ball that big, if you and your team are so dang good or have mad siege up.
We don’t make videos, but we do fight against these guys once in awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Video-7vs50
AoEs in this game are stronger than single target damage, against a single target. That is absurd brother.
But if I have to, I’ll talk the gang into making videos, so you can see the full potential of AEs in this game.
That video is nothing like 7v50, much like his earlier video was nothing like 4v30. He’s a good player, but you’re still full of it.
And please, do “talk your gang” into that – until you do, stop spreading blatant misinformation.
How many were they fighting? There was at least 35 there, most likely 45. Even if it wasn’t 50, it still proves my point, and shows you the reason AEs need to be toned down.
Just becuase you’re not as good as groups like this, or mine doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t show anything, but good players with superior tactics beating terrible players with no battle plan whatsoever. His aoe was hitting for what 1.5-3k? I hit people for 2-4k with autoattack.
All reducing the aoe damage is going to do is promote zerg style play instead of tactical/strategic thinking.
Only way I would be for reduced aoe dmg is if they increased the number people affected within a radius of multiple aoe’s to make up for lost damage.
Your greatsword is also a AE attack, and it would be nice if Warriors were the only other class in the game, for which they are not.
This is probably the tenth time I’ve said it, but will say it again. No AE damage should ever hit a single target for more damage than a single target ability, ever, which includes ALL classes. Because there is a need to change AEs, they also need to increase the number of players hit by AEs to 15, or 20.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
This is why we run with a Necromancer AND a Mesmer, to strip boons.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
Zerging in WvW is already bad enough, this will only encourage the return of stacking again. Another pve change that have deep impact in pvp.
Don’t change what is not broken…
transcriptWe are encourage people […] to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
transcriptWvW is about large scale massive battle mentality where individual players are not as important
Anyone else think these statements are hilariously contradictory?
Course they are and reducing the effectiveness of aoe will make zerging even more prominent. They state there have been complaints about aoe spamming. Well I haven’t seen 1. If its in SPVP then change the balance for SPVP only, they can do that.
Ruminate on this before getting your panties in a knot… watched how VOTF, RED GUARD, KAZ and most of the major wvw EU guilds roll like tanks over hapless zergs swinging away merrily while massive red numbers pop up like grandma’s at a Bingo Joint?
Perhaps THAT is the aoe abuse they’re talking about, not the slap slap patter patter of beautiful cosmic meteors or the cousin of the iceberg that sunk the Titanic falling from the heavens.
And “no” that 7v50 video is not a demonstration of the OP nature of AOE, it is the demonstration of how wolves prey on sheep. irrespective of the amount of poo poo Exarthious has caused in this thread he has picked up on a valid point and I quote “No AE damage should ever hit a single target for more damage than a single target ability, ever, which includes ALL classes. Because there is a need to change AEs, they also need to increase the number of players hit by AEs to 15, or 20.”
Ruminate on that statement a little bit, shovel some snow, come back inside and breath deeply.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my groups Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
Considering that PvE won’t allow resurrections in combat any more maybe that rule should be applied to WvW as well?
Keep in mind PvE rules like this get applied to WvW because WvW uses the PvE ruleset.
So WvW wont allow ressurections in combat. A small anti-zerg step.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Zerging in WvW is already bad enough, this will only encourage the return of stacking again. Another pve change that have deep impact in pvp.
Don’t change what is not broken…
I thought stacking / zerg ball was done to minimize the effects of AoE’s ? If already under powered AoE’s are nerfed what the point of stacking ? And yes I am new to the game so forgive me. =)
Pity I cannot view this stream, but I really don’t understand the Arenanet “logic”. So AoE is too powerful e.g. level 80 engineer doing 2-3 × 200 dmg with his grenades is “too powerful”. But single target damage e.g. thief doing 7000 dmg with Backstab is okay?!?!
Siege weapons do less dmg than backstab. Ah, but now I get the “logic”, engineer is all about being versatile, so engineers don’t need damage.
And if the “issue” was some persons getting aoed during their downed state, then why don’t you give equally powerful downed states to each profession. E.g. engineer has grappling line (downed skill #2), which pulls one enemy to you during downed state. Duh! Who would want even more enemies dancing around her? And thief has shadow escape (#2) and smoke bomb (#3), basically teleport away from your enemies + stealth, giving handy way to get away from your enemies and some real chances to use bandage.
Developers: Please give us real reasons. This doesn’t make any sense.
And like the other people on this thread commented, this would just lead to even more zergs in WvWvW and probably also even more thieves. And basically ruining the necromancer profession. Sighs. People want versatility, not be forced into one very narrow game-play the Anet developers want.
The real problem are NOT AoE, but:
1. Huge number of bugs.
2. Lack of rewards in many game forms:
e.g. defeating champions you get blue items
WvWvW rewards, except the jumping puzzle, are a joke
3. Burst damage is out of control, leading to people playing either bunker builds or glass cannons. Solution: cap the max dmg per hit or give each profession better tools avoid / mitigate the damage. Some purely protective skills have very long cooldowns (60 s), while attacks can be spammed. This leads to hit & run, zerging etc. Killing is NOT the problem and most weapon skills do not need more dmg. I have never had trouble killing. The problem is the lack of counters or counters have way too long cooldowns.
4. There is no real counter against stealth (Anet tells AoE is the counter to stealth… oh yes… let’s make AoE weaker). I guess Anet wants even more invisible armies popping up with several mesmers syncing mass insibilibity and portal.
My server is often seriously outnumbered by the enemy in WvWvW. There can be just 2-3 people in the entire map zone, while enemy has dozens roaming by. If there is even weaker AoE, how can you score any kills against the enemy? Ah, we have the “super useful” outmanned buff. It gives us more karma.
Deniara
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.
People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
This was an issue brought up by spvp players and a very valid one at that. Currently it is impossible to ress an ally with the amount of dmg wells, cluster bomb, etc. do and thus aoe dmg should be lowered a bit.
I don’t understand why people seem to think this encourages zerging? Currently when 2 zergs match each other they spam as much aoe and invulnerability spells they have, so nerfing this might actually make it so people have to choose a target and can’t just spamm 1 and move forward.
Against a zerg you’re not going to do kitten with how the aoe currently is anyway, so why complain about a much needed change.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
I honestly cannot disagree that AoEs being some of your strongest damaging attacks being a bit bonk. AoEs should be used more strategically rather than a “just use it. More people just = bonus kills”.
That said, though, most moves in this game are AoE. Some classes, such as the Ele, are almost completely AoE, so a nerf to AoE would just be a straight nerf across the board to them. I don’t want to be stuck on a #1 auto attack as my only true damage attack. So while I do agree AoEs should come with a compromise, it doesn’t apply to this game unless they make completely new and more viable single target skills. Because of this, I fear any kind of AoE nerf.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
Devona’s Rest, there’s no reason for you to get bent out of shape. You’re incorrect and clearly pandering to the lowest common WvW player. Some of us actually run competitive groups and don’t lose our heads in WvW. Threatening to come kill me only demonstrates the futility of your arguement, heck I was even trying to be nice with you a bit ago while letting you explain some things.
/shrug — I should probably stop being nice to people.
Some classes, such as the Ele, are almost completely AoE, so a nerf to AoE would just be a straight nerf across the board to them. I don’t want to be stuck on a #1 auto attack as my only true damage attack.
Huh? It would simply mean that dragon’s tooth for example does 100% dmg against the player you targeted and for each aditional target it hits it does for example 25% less dmg.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
Devona’s Rest, there’s no reason for you to get bent out of shape. You’re incorrect and clearly pandering to the lowest common WvW player. Some of us actually run competitive groups and don’t lose our heads in WvW. Threatening to come kill me only demonstrates the futility of your arguement, heck I was even trying to be nice with you a bit ago while letting you explain some things.
/shrug — I should probably stop being nice to people.
If you’re as good as you believe you are, this change wouldn’t scare you, but instead give you hope that things will be made more challenging, rather than keep it in the easy mode it currently is in.
Don’t be afraid of the change, instead embrace it, and the challenges it brings.
If they do nerf the damage of each AoE tick they need to increase either the duration or the number of targets affected to compensate. AoE should not be more effective at doing damage to a single target than a single target ability, it’s purpose should be to deter larger groups. Ultimately it depends on how they handle this, but it’s pretty clear a a simple damage nerf to all AoE skills won’t cut it.
This will be interesting to see how it plays out. I could see the damage being reduced by aoe if the number of targets are increased. I wonder how this is going to effect melee characters though. How many of your skills are actually single target. I know when I was trying a couple melee classes, most of the skills hit more than one target and would therefore count as an aoe and fall under the nerf.
Was getting tired of WvW but if they nerf AoE it will put a coffin in the game for me.
As someone else said
Single target should be > AoE
however
AoE should not have a 5 cap limit. There shouldn’t be a limit on aoe at all. If you can’t move out of aoes that’s your own fault. If your group of 30 gets run over by 5 people using AoE then too bad. Should have payed more attention / played better. Hand-holding zergs will only make the game worse.
Seems like this game is going to end up like all the others. Giving in to making the game easier so more “casuals” can have their fun, when it ends up just ruining the game and dumbing it down even more.
I agree with you to a point. There does need to be a cap on number of players hit, but it needs to be something like 15-20 players hit by AEs.
If they do more than that, we’ll be back to having Bright Wizards, who when protected could kill massive zergs by themselves. It was utterly stupid how effective Bright Wizards were, and I played one, who was guarded 100% of the time by a Knight. <grins evily>
You can already use one Guardian to deny access to a ramp, backed by 4 AE classes, as long as two are Elementalists, and destroy massive zergs because those trying to attack “up the ramp” have limited sight, and will see their attacks obstructed, while those above the ramps, can rain down death.
Stability is the answer for any Guardian denial. You really can’t blame AoE for horrible zerg tactics.
Because Stability is never on cooldown, and they knew when going up the ramp to save it, amirite?
I mean seriously, you’re only hurting your argument.
I save stability for ramp/lord pushes. All Guardians should, Mesmer’s should save portals/Mass invis, I could go on here. Area denial in this game is only as strong as the players its used against.
What good is your stability if my Necromancer, or my Mesmer strips it from you? Are you a newer player to this game?
I hit my second ability with Stability on it? Or the next person in my group hits it, or perhaps we portal in, or invis. Or ANY OTHER ABILITY USED TO PREVENT AREA DENIAL.
Are YOU new to the game?
First the Mesmer has to get through to portal, you know this right? And if you pop a second Stability, which most classes don’t have easy access to, we toy with you, as you do nothing but die, or run back to your Zerg because you’re dying.
What other abilities to deny area prevention? Most teleportation abilities are bugged when you try to teleport UP, so they are not reliable.
I don’t think you understand how a Guardian prevents you from coming up the ramp, or you wouldn’t mention invis up, or have a Mesmer run up, and drop a portal. Here, this web page might help you out some.
Are you serious?
Every ramp in this game is large enough to walk around a Sanct/LoW/RoW. We do it every time we assault a tower/keep. In Hills keeps we pop stealth/stability and the mesmer saunters in for a portal drop. I MAIN a Guardian, the area denial is only as strong as the people you are using it against.People not using their heads in zergs doesn’t mean AoE is to strong.
lol… What server are you on? We would kill you countless times, even if you had the Zerg to back you up.
Devona’s Rest, there’s no reason for you to get bent out of shape. You’re incorrect and clearly pandering to the lowest common WvW player. Some of us actually run competitive groups and don’t lose our heads in WvW. Threatening to come kill me only demonstrates the futility of your arguement, heck I was even trying to be nice with you a bit ago while letting you explain some things.
/shrug — I should probably stop being nice to people.
If you’re as good as you believe you are, this change wouldn’t scare you, but instead give you hope that things will be made more challenging, rather than keep it in the easy mode it currently is in.
Don’t be afraid of the change, instead embrace it, and the challenges it brings.
I suggested ways around the change while opening up more avenues for WvW players to run their groups. That’s not being scared …. that’s being level headed and making suggestions for how to improve something as opposed to gutting it. Keep it coming though …
This was an issue brought up by spvp players and a very valid one at that. Currently it is impossible to ress an ally with the amount of dmg wells, cluster bomb, etc. do and thus aoe dmg should be lowered a bit.
If its valid for sPVP make the change to sPVP only. They can do that.
I suggested ways around the change while opening up more avenues for WvW players to run their groups. That’s not being scared …. that’s being level headed and making suggestions for how to improve something as opposed to gutting it. Keep it coming though …
No, you’re coming across as a D/D Elementalist who is afraid of the changes, and screaming; “DON’T CHANGE US BRO”. That’s why you’re arguing with me because I’m ok with the changes, and I too have offered logical, and well thought out solutions to the problem.
But my solutions don’t support your; “no change to my class” solution so you’ll argue with me until one of us gives up.
So this is me giving up on discussing anything with you since you believe everything you’re doing is much better than what others you kill are doing, therefore you’re daBest, and everyone should realize this, and not balance the game. You’re no different than any other player in any other game who is trying to defend something that needs changed to balance the game.
When we destroy a Zerg in our AE group, none of us believe it is because of our skill, and we echo often in vent saying; “wow, that was kind of silly”, but that only shows a difference in maturity levels to be honest. We’ve lately been leveling a group of Rangers for a better challenge, and when we heard about this AE change, all five of us were happy to hear about it.
There, I’ve said my peace, and will discuss things with more reasonable people, who don’t feel they’re the best, and they only win because they’re the best.
(edited by Exarthious.5792)
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