Guild Wars 2

StugLyfe.2134:

dreztina.4820:

If anet handles this poorly, which is fairly likely, this change could very well be the end of competitive play in wvw. All hail the zerg.

You call 10 ele’s spamming 1 key competitive? AOE’s with masive damage feed the zerg just like bads like you. ANET is trying to fix something that’s ridiculas and causes much lagg, okay

What one key is that ele ‘spamming’ ? Anything without a cool down is lucky to crit for 2k. Good game, he might kill me in 10 casts if I sit there and do nothing or he catches me afk. lmao

StugLyfe.2134:

dreztina.4820:

If anet handles this poorly, which is fairly likely, this change could very well be the end of competitive play in wvw. All hail the zerg.

You call 10 ele’s spamming 1 key competitive? AOE’s with masive damage feed the zerg just like bads like you. ANET is trying to fix something that’s ridiculas and causes much lagg, okay

Are you refering to meteor shower ? Because that skill has half a minute cooldown. Far from spammable. I`m playing wvw each day yet I have never ever seen 10 eles sitting in one place casting aoe`s. Usually its a bunch of different classes, running to the front, casting 1-2 spells then running back behind their line or their wall. I`ve been in pretty big fights with all kinds of aoe`s and crap flying around and i never lagged. The only time i lagged was during big portal bombs. I think aNet is looking at this from the wrong perspective.

If i ever saw a elementalist casting meteor while I’m on my engineer, I would just yank them with my tool kit, that thing has a 4 second cast time, just saying.

Bombul.2506:

Cloud.7613:

I don’t understand this, no one and I repeat no one has complained about AoE on the forums. One of the big things people have complained about is thieves and this is an indirect buff to them because AoE is one of the only things that can counter the culling/invis issue, not to mention some classes like elementalist is forced to use AoE.

I just don’t understand it, I just dont.

The forums is not an adequate representation of the player base. Important fact, almost no-one I know or play with comes on the forums. When mentioning “did you see on the forums” I usually get snide remarks about why I would spend any time reading that dribble. The outrage and en masse complaints in this thread is exactly why. A few here are dicussing their opinions and view, but most are just complaining, making rash assumptions, and climing to speak for everyone.

No-one complains about aoe on the forums…here…The abundance of AOE based abilities (whether pbaoe, gtaoe, conical aoe, or bouncing aoe), and the relative strength of those abilities in regards to its damage capability and utility effectiveness against 1 enemy in comparison to other single target abilities is one of the major reasons why this game is coming up short as a skill based esport machine.

It is ridiculous that soo many classes and abilities do not even have to so much as target their intended victim and yet has strong effect of either crowd control or damage. Hey I will press tab and fire no-matter who it targets I will get him. The guy behind me is almost dead and I need some incoming damage off of me, let me swing my sword at the guy in front of me so I can kill the guy behind me. There may be someone hiding in our tower, should we leave people here to stand guard…nah, lets just run a couple circles spamming whatever button will fire off then leave this tower completely unguarded.

Please do not assume that you are speaking for the masses. My post is my opinion, your post is your opinion. Too many posts here seem to claim they know no one is upset about, no one dislikes, you are not doing anything, etcetcetc.

You must be a thief, either way, It’s my opinion, I never said it was yours or the ‘masses’ you sir have a good day, lol? :/

Easy fix, nerf revivals occurring mid-combat.

Or spam the revival area with aoe. The elementist one that makes a blob of lava come out of the ground comes to mind.

Saweth You Him.9047:

So while an aoe nerf is being discussed armies of 20 golems are still being portaled to reinforced gates and destroying them in 3 seconds with time warp and capping a tower or keep much faster than the waypoint resets so no oppurtunity for resistance can be made. And then the golems are waypointed to safety. 2000 supply worth of siege portaled to a gate then waypointed away.

Not to mention AOE is already so gimped because of the 5-target cap that a defending side could not take those golems down before they get the door down.

In the field, as a bunker Ele I will routinely stand in AOE as I can comfortably outheal the damage long enough to stall a push or halt a rout on our side using counter-CC. The idea that AOE is too strong in WVW is laughable.

I would prefer to see the AOE 5-target cap removed and only then look at reducing AOE damage based on distance from the geometric centre point/line of the AOE that same way DAOC did it. eg: centre of the AOE = full damage, close to edge of AOE = half damage.

WVW desperately needs mechanics that punish zerging/balling up so that more group-based strategies can flourish, or at least have the tools that they can counter zergs through skilful play. I find it ridiculous that the current game mechanics reward/encourage zerging/balling up/turtling in order to mitigate already woeful AOE damage when every other area of the game seeks to punish this behaviour.

well i don’t usually post on the forums but…in my opinion if you nerf the AOE thats going to take alotta fun out of the game, didn’t arenanet say in the world of tyria its all about skill if that is true then the skilled players should have no problem with aoe just as it is,watch for aoe, its the unskilled players that dont move out of the aoe that get roasted.

mjharrison.3209:

Saweth You Him.9047:

So while an aoe nerf is being discussed armies of 20 golems are still being portaled to reinforced gates and destroying them in 3 seconds with time warp and capping a tower or keep much faster than the waypoint resets so no oppurtunity for resistance can be made. And then the golems are waypointed to safety. 2000 supply worth of siege portaled to a gate then waypointed away.

Not to mention AOE is already so gimped because of the 5-target cap that a defending side could not take those golems down before they get the door down.

In the field, as a bunker Ele I will routinely stand in AOE as I can comfortably outheal the damage long enough to stall a push or halt a rout on our side using counter-CC. The idea that AOE is too strong in WVW is laughable.

I would prefer to see the AOE 5-target cap removed and only then look at reducing AOE damage based on distance from the geometric centre point/line of the AOE that same way DAOC did it. eg: centre of the AOE = full damage, close to edge of AOE = half damage.

WVW desperately needs mechanics that punish zerging/balling up so that more group-based strategies can flourish, or at least have the tools that they can counter zergs through skilful play. I find it ridiculous that the current game mechanics reward/encourage zerging/balling up/turtling in order to mitigate already woeful AOE damage when every other area of the game seeks to punish this behaviour.

i agree , as i said in an earlier post when we saw CD zerging our keeps all we could do was try to aoe to stall them. nerfing aoe is only promoting zerging (and stealth spamming thieves). Your idea of the center point of aoe being stronger then the edges is a very nice suggestion imo and id love to see that done (obviously wont happen if theyre trying to nerf aoe here cause that would make them OP ;-P). If anything the thought of aoe being too powerful right now is being suggested by 2 groups , stealth spam thieves , and ppl that just dont want to move out of aoe (either lagging to no end or just too lazy to do it , either case is not a justified reason to nerf aoe or make claims that its too strong).

Trexobc.8542:

well i don’t usually post on the forums but…in my opinion if you nerf the AOE thats going to take alotta fun out of the game, didn’t arenanet say in the world of tyria its all about skill if that is true then the skilled players should have no problem with aoe just as it is,watch for aoe, its the unskilled players that dont move out of the aoe that get roasted.

i do believe they did say something about being able to get things done in different ways? why destroy one of said ways? doesnt that sort of contradict the statement? why not leave aoe as is and just bring single target damage up to par with thieves and warriors? i mean in pve dungeon mobs have WAY too much health , especially some of the bosses (i expect alot of health but they sort of have an insane amount , i believe ive heard specifically the ones in HotW Explore?)

Also, I want to point out that this game is already hugely siege dependent. If they nerf AoE abilities by players, there are going to be a heck of alot of bored players sitting around spamming arrow cart and ballista keys, not moving.

Stoneslammer.3650:

But as others have said in this thread regarding AOE. AOE should not be doing more single target damage than single target skills.

I agree. this is however not a problem with AoE, but with some single target skills being way too weak. Besides, you are comparing here the strongest AoE’s with the weakest single-targets. The strong ones are so much better than AoE there’s no comparison at all.

mjharrison.3209:

Saweth You Him.9047:

So while an aoe nerf is being discussed armies of 20 golems are still being portaled to reinforced gates and destroying them in 3 seconds with time warp and capping a tower or keep much faster than the waypoint resets so no oppurtunity for resistance can be made. And then the golems are waypointed to safety. 2000 supply worth of siege portaled to a gate then waypointed away.

Not to mention AOE is already so gimped because of the 5-target cap that a defending side could not take those golems down before they get the door down.

In the field, as a bunker Ele I will routinely stand in AOE as I can comfortably outheal the damage long enough to stall a push or halt a rout on our side using counter-CC. The idea that AOE is too strong in WVW is laughable.

I would prefer to see the AOE 5-target cap removed and only then look at reducing AOE damage based on distance from the geometric centre point/line of the AOE that same way DAOC did it. eg: centre of the AOE = full damage, close to edge of AOE = half damage.

WVW desperately needs mechanics that punish zerging/balling up so that more group-based strategies can flourish, or at least have the tools that they can counter zergs through skilful play. I find it ridiculous that the current game mechanics reward/encourage zerging/balling up/turtling in order to mitigate already woeful AOE damage when every other area of the game seeks to punish this behaviour.

Very good idea.
After all, AN mentioned some AoE skills where preferable compared to some single target ones… -dunno, what they are talking about (Cluster bomb?good, but not imba)…
…but, thinking about the above idea got me to the following suggestions/changes:
_-> No AOE Player Cap!_

-> “Single” dmg zone of AOEs
The Center of every AoE should be only 1m / 1 Person in diameter and dps should be comparable to Single target dps. Channeld spells could even be upped in dps.
Would also help adress balling/stacking up players…
Skills like firewall would have their center either in the middle or at one end, which might graphically be indicated via higher flames/earthwall…

-> “Regular” dmg Zone of AoEs
DPS toned down (about 25%-50%) compared to the current values, but not be playercapped.

Optional:
-> Make AOE fields unstackable
You shouldnt be able to put/stack 1 field ontop another….simple as that. Might seem unrealistic on Arrowcarts and such, but would be a more balanced approach and still allow for good AoE defense tactics.

Rezzing in WvW wouldnt be that of an issue vs zergs without AoE player cap…

Horrible suggestions man. That would completely kill this game. Please think a little about impact.

Unless they are specifically looking at nerfing dagger storm so that they can actually be damaged during that long spin by arrows AND stop them stealthing for 10 seconds afterwards then any other changes can be binned too. THAT is the most OP aoe in the game, luckily most thiefs are too scared to try using it or the forums would be full of complaints about it too (as well as backstabbers).

AOE more than single target damage? Let’s see: 8k steal/mug, 6k skill, 6k cnD (oh look I’m invisible again and your downed), not even using backstab, all in under a second.

Give me an aoe that does that sort of single target damage, takes less less one second to cast, etc and THEN think of nerfing it.

Any nerfs to most aoe’s (except dagger storm, which makes the thief INVINCIBLE against rangers for the duration) should be confined to sPVP only. A lot of aoe’s need buffing not nerfing if you ever want to move away from the zerg mentality.

Unstackable aoe fields would be a headache for people who use fast cast ground targeting. I bet half the people who play WvW would quit over that. Fighting to get your necro mark in over someone else. Fighting with your own team over space and cursing them for their gimpy aoe. Nevermind blast finishers.

To whoever quoted me pages ago, it’s not so much the fact that I die 1v3, it’s that I die 1v3 to completely skill-less scrubs who don’t get punished for being so. I’m able to live 1v3 for a lot longer than 90% of the playerbase in WvW because I specced and geared for it. But even with all that (20k hp, 2600 armor, 3k attack) the damage on staff is pathetic at best.

My most important skills root me in place, melee classes don’t ever get punished for being kited (every weapon has 1 or more ridiculously large range gap closers), when someone does get low because they were too stupid to move out the dozens of red circles its always “zomg gap closer AWAY from the tanky staff Ele.” Additionally, the dps of the skills on ranged weapons is kitten awful in comparison to melee weapons that are ridiculously easy to stay in range with.

None of this really matters though, the problem isn’t AoE, the problem is the large disparity in damage of various skills coupled with the weird scaling that essentially promotes the game being a glass cannon zergfest. Crit damage is too abundant and scales way better than toughness/armor does. Coincidentally, Power means little to nothing because in the grand scheme of things.

Now this is a terrible example because Eles have kitten for base hp but here goes – Full bunker Ele vs full glass cannon Ele – glass cannon gets hit by 1.1k fireballs, full bunker gets hit for 850 fireballs but gets crit for 2.4k. Now, the bunker build will win this one, but only because the Ele’s damage, even in glass cannon, is so awful that the bunker build has nearly infinite sustainability against someone with that low hp. Turn that glass Ele into a Thief or a Warrior, and guess what, bunker loses every time. Now, it might take 5-10 minutes, depending upon skill levels of the individuals, but the damage/sustainability of the glass cannon Thief/Warrior far exceeds the capabilities of the bunker Ele. And even if the Ele was REALLY good and managed to get the Thief/Warrior low, POOF! Vanish away/gap closer gap opener (sorry, I had to do it) and live to fight another day because poor play is NOT punished.

Victory.2879:

Unless they are specifically looking at nerfing dagger storm so that they can actually be damaged during that long spin by arrows AND stop them stealthing for 10 seconds afterwards then any other changes can be binned too. THAT is the most OP aoe in the game, luckily most thiefs are too scared to try using it or the forums would be full of complaints about it too (as well as backstabbers).

AOE more than single target damage? Let’s see: 8k steal/mug, 6k skill, 6k cnD (oh look I’m invisible again and your downed), not even using backstab, all in under a second.

Give me an aoe that does that sort of single target damage, takes less less one second to cast, etc and THEN think of nerfing it.

Any nerfs to most aoe’s (except dagger storm, which makes the thief INVINCIBLE against rangers for the duration) should be confined to sPVP only. A lot of aoe’s need buffing not nerfing if you ever want to move away from the zerg mentality.

I laughed a little at how you used (OP) thieves as your point of reference.
Try comparing the damage of Necro or Rangers instead, that would make your point much more valid.
@ Papaj.9035
Poor play is punished through repairs (things still break if you die)
Easy play has not been punished (stand in the back firing AoEs and getting more kills, badges, and loots than anyone else)

Causic.3798:

Poor play is punished through repairs (things still break if you die)
Easy play has not been punished (stand in the back firing AoEs and getting more kills, badges, and loots than anyone else)

Pretty sure I could roll a Thief/Warrior and go run into the faces of zergs and double my current kill count in a matter of a month compared to sitting back firing off that 3 second cast AoE. When AoEs do the damage of 100 Blades or Steal/Backstab/CnD chains in a comparable amount of time, then you can say that the ‘easy play’ is unpunished.

Victory.2879:

Unless they are specifically looking at nerfing dagger storm so that they can actually be damaged during that long spin by arrows AND stop them stealthing for 10 seconds afterwards then any other changes can be binned too. THAT is the most OP aoe in the game, luckily most thiefs are too scared to try using it or the forums would be full of complaints about it too (as well as backstabbers).

AOE more than single target damage? Let’s see: 8k steal/mug, 6k skill, 6k cnD (oh look I’m invisible again and your downed), not even using backstab, all in under a second.

Give me an aoe that does that sort of single target damage, takes less less one second to cast, etc and THEN think of nerfing it.

Any nerfs to most aoe’s (except dagger storm, which makes the thief INVINCIBLE against rangers for the duration) should be confined to sPVP only. A lot of aoe’s need buffing not nerfing if you ever want to move away from the zerg mentality.

Frankly mate, learn to play. Dagger storming enemy thief, 2 possibilities:

1) They are weak, deal much damage though. Melee them, one or two hits boom dead thief.
2) They are weak, do little damage but have the heal per hit passive, get a couple of people to melee them, dead thief.

What makes daggerstorm strong is people who fire projectiles at them while in it.

Papaj.9035:

Causic.3798:

Poor play is punished through repairs (things still break if you die)
Easy play has not been punished (stand in the back firing AoEs and getting more kills, badges, and loots than anyone else)

Pretty sure I could roll a Thief/Warrior and go run into the faces of zergs and double my current kill count in a matter of a month compared to sitting back firing off that 3 second cast AoE. When AoEs do the damage of 100 Blades or Steal/Backstab/CnD chains in a comparable amount of time, then you can say that the ‘easy play’ is unpunished.

Risk vs Reward.
In melee you can get stunned, pulled, immobilized, etc.
Can’t even get hundred blades off before being CCed and pulled sometimes.
In the back? nothing but stray shots.
Anyone running in the front lines deserves more loots than people sitting in the back with nothing to lose.

The fact is mass-AOE can kill you faster than any single target damaging class can dream of. You see it all the time when people portal bomb and use culling in order to hose the entire area with AOE before they even load on your screen.

There is no mass aoe in this game. 5 target limit on abilities prevents it from being ‘mass’.

Also, people are still getting portal bombed? Most of the time when people portal bomb us, they all end up dead where they portalled in.

Portal Bombing is an ever dieing tactic. Many guilds/servers are already adapting to when culling becomes a thing of the past and are working on different tactics. The tactic is becoming a situational move as opposed to the “only” move.

Papaj.9035:

And even if the Ele was REALLY good and managed to get the Thief/Warrior low, POOF! Vanish away/gap closer gap opener (sorry, I had to do it) and live to fight another day because poor play is NOT punished.

To be fair, it’s not poor play. It’s actually smart, albeit the best play/use of the skill given the situation. The mechanics might be bad, but that’s not the players error.

Papaj.9035:

Pretty sure I would die a lot as a Thief/Warrior in a matter of a month as I am not used to being targeted by everyone in a zerg compared to sitting back reading forums firing off that 3 second cast AoE.

Fixed it for ya

Causic.3798:

In melee you can get stunned, pulled, immobilized, etc.
Can’t even get hundred blades off before being CCed and pulled sometimes.
In the back? nothing but stray shots.
.

0/10 don’t troll again. You think being out of melee range prevents this from happening? That is half the reason kiting is near impossible to do and why the damage disparity being so mismatched is an issue more so than a few idiots who can’t hit dodge roll or strafe. So many immobilizes/stuns with a 400-600 range, couple those with the constant stream of gap closers on melee weapons and being ranged is just nerfing your damage in battle. I’ll give you melee runs a higher risk, but I can’t hit 2 buttons that lock someone at 600+ range and drop a full tank spec from 100 to 50 in < 3 seconds, melee get to do that once they close the gap to 600.

P.S. – Try stability next time, or maybe a knockdown before you 100 Blades.

We have had several things since beta that were OP. I cant see anything from this thread that brings up a single one tho.

Nitejack EMP

Straegen.2938:

AoE is choking this game in several areas. The biggest and most obvious to me is the lag it likely creates. In WvW, tons of AoE going off creates a massive surge of data the servers have to crunch and send out.

You have no clue what you are talking about. This game has far less AoE and effective AoE than many that have come before, and they didnt lag out into oblivion.

Papaj.9035:

Causic.3798:

In melee you can get stunned, pulled, immobilized, etc.
Can’t even get hundred blades off before being CCed and pulled sometimes.
In the back? nothing but stray shots.
.

0/10 don’t troll again. You think being out of melee range prevents this from happening? That is half the reason kiting is near impossible to do and why the damage disparity being so mismatched is an issue more so than a few idiots who can’t hit dodge roll or strafe. So many immobilizes/stuns with a 400-600 range, couple those with the constant stream of gap closers on melee weapons and being ranged is just nerfing your damage in battle. I’ll give you melee runs a higher risk, but I can’t hit 2 buttons that lock someone at 600+ range and drop a full tank spec from 100 to 50 in < 3 seconds, melee get to do that once they close the gap to 600.

P.S. – Try stability next time, or maybe a knockdown before you 100 Blades.

Way to lose credibility by proving your losing because as we all know only losers bash.
Now on to the REAL topic at hand.
Of course being in the back prevents you from all those things, name one AoE immobilize or pull that isn’t stupidly obvious (mesmer curtain is more than obvious).
I did not understand much of what you tried to say after that (all the italicized), it was so awfully phrased I will not try to decipher what your trying to say. Clarify what your trying to say and ill try and counter it. As to the stability/ knockdown thing, why should people up close HAVE to use a stability(that only lasts 5 seconds might I add, then have to retreat) while people in the back can attack all the time (and do just as much damage, 4k Meteor Shower is painfully OP, especially considering it is 1200 range at the center, so it reaches furcher than that) with no need of one. Also, I never use hundred blades, its way to obvious. Hundred blades is much too situational for a self root attack while i’m in front lines.

Meteor shower doesn’t hit for 4k…lol

Stop going into WvW upleveled. A glass meteor shower barely hits be for ever 2k and then you can go ahead and get away from it because it takes forever to full cast.

Causic.3798:

4k Meteor Shower is painfully OP, especially considering it is 1200 range at the center, so it reaches furcher than that

Do you know how meteor shower works? It is a channel first of all. Secondly the damage it does is completely random in regards to who actually gets hit by a meteor. Chances are, you won’t get hit by more than one.

Yes it can hit for 4k, but you will probably take a single shot for 4k on average and be done with it.You should probably look at the spell, look at the damage, use windows calculator, and figure out the dps of that spell. It is laughable.

I dont even use shower unless I am on attunement timers and lava is down because it is my worst damaging AE ability on my ele. You see one half way decent hit, and complain about it. Non consistent, non reliable, and not even average dps on the ability.

Churchill.8714:

Meteor shower doesn’t hit for 4k…lol

Stop going into WvW upleveled. A glass meteor shower barely hits be for ever 2k and then you can go ahead and get away from it because it takes forever to full cast.

I get hit by Meteor showers for 2k-2.5k all the time and that’s with 3300 armor FYI. Multiple meteor showers in one spot can drop you fast. Almost 5k a second incoming damage.

Was there ever a large outcry to nerf AoEs in the first place?

Churchill.8714:

Meteor shower doesn’t hit for 4k…lol

Stop going into WvW upleveled. A glass meteor shower barely hits be for ever 2k and then you can go ahead and get away from it because it takes forever to full cast.

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I get hit by Meteor showers for 2k-2.5k all the time and that’s with 3300 armor FYI. Multiple meteor showers in one spot can drop you fast. Almost 5k a second incoming damage.

Multiple anything will kill someone fast. Not sure why you mentioned that, because it doesnt really make any point whatsoever.

Also, you aren’t getting hit every second by meteors. The spell mechanics do not work that way. Whether you get hit or not is quite random. You can even stand inside the area and not get hit once by it. Heh

Causic.3798:

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

Only stupid people that dont move out of circles. Staff elementalist AE is painfully easy to dodge. Heck, you can even move out of the area most of the time if you pay attention to animations without even wasting a dodge.

By the way, I got hit by 2 rangers the other day and they destroyed me. Nerf them please.

covenn.7165:

Causic.3798:

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

Only stupid people that dont move out of circles. Staff elementalist AE is painfully easy to dodge. Heck, you can even move out of the area most of the time if you pay attention to animations without even wasting a dodge.

By the way, I got hit by 2 rangers the other day and they destroyed me. Nerf them please.

That is exactly my point, a small group of people can control an area just by spamming AoE in a door or gateway. It is no skill.
As to the 2 Ranger destroying you part, im not saying im the one dying to elementalists (id say boost their 1 vs 1, id like to see them have alternative builds that more worth using in WvW), im just saying that they prevent capturing of points unskillfully by laying down AoE.
Though I will drop this topic (we will never come to agree, much like me and thieves), ANet will do as it pleases regardless of either of our arguments.

Causic there isn’t enough AoE in this game as it is. There is a 5 target limit and typically the damage of on AoE class alone isnt enough to drop people, let alone 5. Not only that, there are gap closers, immunity, and a million other things that allow people to get through choke points.

This game is already too zerg heavy. Anything that reduces effectiveness of AoE is going to make it far far worse.

Trickster Foxy.5074:

Was there ever a large outcry to nerf AoEs in the first place?

No there wasn’t despite arenanet’s claims to the contrary in their livestream.

I’m gonna let you continue to think area denial with red circles is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but double dodge roll thru that choke to Earthshaker is still the most pro move I’ve seen. Actually, you could probably Earthshaker over those pitiful radius AoEs. If someone is dumb enough to stand in a red circle, that’s their own fault, they deserve to die.

Dodge Roll was given to us in this game for a reason. To complain about something that not only has a vivid and long animation, but also a big red kitten circle on the ground saying “HEY DON’T STAND HERE” being too effective compared to something like a hasted 100 Blades or a Thief opening strike proves that intelligence is still a rare find among MMO players.

As a trap based ranger and a greatstaff Elementalist I COULD get behind a revision to AOE if my damage was reduced in exchange for AT LEAST 10 maximum targets or my skills.

I also hope Anet (who has done an admirable job with the game thusfar) realizes, that the source of the incredible AOE damage we hear horror stories about are players like me —players who know their class cold and are SPECIFICALLY BUILT for this function.

I dont understand why Anet chose this “issue” to tackle when there are a host of other issues the community is concerned about.

This issue really kinda came out of the blue and I have to wonder why? I’m concerned because as far as I’m concerned, the ideal player finds a playstyle who suits him, builds his class to further suit those wants/needs, and develops a gear and traitset to augment his abilities. MY particular playstyle involves dishing massive amounts of AoE damage (albeit to no more than 5 players per skill) —BUT THIS COMES AT A COST. I have nowhere near the survivability of a bunker build guardian or even another Ele, I have nothing that’s even close to the hardcore, straight-up DPS of a well build Thief, and I wouldn’t dream of being able to manipulate a battle the way a talented, intelligent mesmer can.

So, why is AoE being revised? The problem with nerffing AoE (If this update really does amount to a “nerf”) is it upsets the balance not only of WvW, but of the way players build their classes.

If Arenanet is concerned with the fairness of builds, then why aren’t Perma-Stealth Thieves —the epitome of building your class for a specific roll-- being MASSIVELY revised?

Anyway, Arenanet, if any of you happen to read this, I hope you guys do a good job with your revisions. I really REALLY love this game, but I’ve seen great games crumble as developers try to “improve” what isn’t a problem. I’m confident (or blindly hopeful, we’ll find out which after the update) you guys will make the right choice here

I played on a few servers before deciding on my tier 1 home.. and I think the strong opinions on AOE probably depend on which servers you’re playing on or against. At lower tiers, AOE isnt a problem. It’s useful and can be highly strategic in a way that is neither broken, imbalanced, or unfair.

The problem, I think, is what is just starting to happen on Tier 1 servers. If done properly, an AOE zerg absolutely will destroy much larger zergs in no time. Its happening right now, Ive seen it, tested it, had it done to me, used it against others— the point is it works…. very well… too well.

AOE needs to be brought down a peg… My solution—- Id suggest making it where not only can an AOE only hit a select few targets (we already have that), but that a player should also only be able to take damage from a 1-2 aoes at a time in addition to siege damage. That way AOEs can serve a purpose without being broken.

Man, it’s the Dawn of Eldar all over again if you ask me.

An easy solution for AoE as a zerg is to not run into it.\

Or as Papaj pointed out earlier, double dodge roll→Earthshaker→Staggering Blow→Hammer Shock→Savage Leap→Charge→Call to Arms

3-5 dead people, rinse repeat.

Maybe just like bleeding stack have a limit, hit of stacked gaoe should have one to.

AOE zerg only works due to culling and lack of awareness/scouts/use of TS.

Here’s what happens: 30 people all staring at door, maybe one looking behind as they autoattack door, no scouts to either side. 10-15 enemies bunch up just out of visual range, buff up, boons up, stealth up, charge in and wipe them using every skill they have. Due to culling issues they will fail to render before half the players are downed (at least).

Here’s what should happen: scout on right spots 10-15 milling around to the right, communicates this to the server TS. As soon as the enemies disappear, TS is told, guardian bubbles or puts down the ‘you shall not pass’ skill, mesmer throws down temporal curtain and everyone focuses on the incoming direction, negating the attack which relies on surprise and co ordination to win.

Next time it happens to you, click on the boons and boosts all the enemies have in their co ordinated attack then check out your own zerg’s lack thereof as most people run solo builds and don’t think to use group buffs etc.

Nerfing aoe damage won’t affect zerg behaviour, it will only make it worse.

Oh and I’ve yet to see any melee class that can land a series of hits on a dagger storming thief whilst taking enormous damage and tracking the running spinning thief. As a mainly LB/SB user, it’s a little difficult to switch to a melee weapon in combat just so I can go die trying to hit a spinning moving target that is dishing out enormous numbers.

ComeAndSee.1356:

I get hit by Meteor showers for 2k-2.5k all the time and that’s with 3300 armor FYI. Multiple meteor showers in one spot can drop you fast. Almost 5k a second incoming damage.

Are you really complaining about being hit by 2k damage by a 4s channeling spell on a 30s cooldown? Now Ive heart everything… /facepalm

me im not.9357:

I played on a few servers before deciding on my tier 1 home.. and I think the strong opinions on AOE probably depend on which servers you’re playing on or against. At lower tiers, AOE isnt a problem. It’s useful and can be highly strategic in a way that is neither broken, imbalanced, or unfair.

The problem, I think, is what is just starting to happen on Tier 1 servers. If done properly, an AOE zerg absolutely will destroy much larger zergs in no time. Its happening right now, Ive seen it, tested it, had it done to me, used it against others— the point is it works…. very well… too well.

AOE needs to be brought down a peg… My solution—- Id suggest making it where not only can an AOE only hit a select few targets (we already have that), but that a player should also only be able to take damage from a 1-2 aoes at a time in addition to siege damage. That way AOEs can serve a purpose without being broken.

The main problem about it is culling not AOE damage. You can easily dodge out of AOE circles. You can easily position your own zerg that its not easily targetable by AOEs.

But in the current state you cannot do anything because the enemy zerg renders to late.

FIX CULLING BEFORE FIXING ANYTHING ELSE!!1

In DAOC RVR AOE was far more powerful. But it was part of the game, people have learned how to counter it (do not stand all in one place, use interrupts, use cc, …).

LegoTechnic.5910:

As an engineer, a large majority of my skills are AoE, and even some of the single-target abilities tend to have AoE benefits (rifle piercing, pistol shot’s explosions, etc).

Needless to say I am very concerned with any addressments to AoE as a group effect. I’ve already pretty much given up on grenades in WvW as their effects just don’t match the crazy button spam they require, and I’d sure as hate to see even my bomb kit become less useful to boot. Toolkit is fun to use on thieves who aren’t prepared and wind up killing themselves, but it only takes me so far…

I don’t really get it. I’m an engie who has more or less been forced to switch to Guard because of AOE nerfs and the lack of a viable comp-enhancing WvW build. Guards are quickly becoming a must-have class despite the fact that the two best control abilities are not damage dependent (line of warding, wall of reflection)