Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp
Game Designer

JonathanSharp.7094:

For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.
——————

Im worried about this, Spvp has alot of nerfs to separate it from other game modes. But this is going to allow them to Nerf Classes at will in wvw without worry of affecting PvE.

Personally I feel its a great idea but HOPE they dont take it to far, Some classes can use a buff but honestly Ive killed every profession and died to ever profession.

Dont ruin WvW

When i read this I took it more as redesign of how you gain items. At the moment you are forced to do fractals for items even if you hate pve. I know you can get the items from laurels but it just take more time. There should be a equal fast way to get the items in wvw to.

I personally hope they just fix the bug that allows you to /party with enemies… Getting so sick of enraged children and manboys paging me about how much I suck because I either beat them, or they beat me…

Sounds like moves that do more damage in WvW than they do in sPvP are in danger of getting nerfed.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

I personally hope they just fix the bug that allows you to /party with enemies… Getting so sick of enraged children and manboys paging me about how much I suck because I either beat them, or they beat me…

Umm don’t accept the invite lol….problem solved

Looking forward and not looking forward to it.

This could mean the loss of food buffs in WvW, loss of some sigils, etc.

It’s for the good. There is no way to balance PVP correctly against PVE with all skills and abilities working exactly the same. Fighting mobs is just entirely different from their mobility to attack speed, lack of diversity, everything.

It seems pretty obvious their fear to break PVE for certain professions which would turn off newcomers to the game, has been keeping their hands tied from certain changes.

Pvp damage/heal nerfs are WAY to big to be implemented in wvw. If they copy them… Then all the fun is gone. Fun is what the game is about NEVER EVER forgat that.

well, you gotta see though spvp is with a lot less players and therefor certain traits were extreemly op.wvw is different from that. most spvp builds don’t work that well in wvw. now pve suffered a lot from certain nerfs an future changes would destroy gameplay in pve.
i really hope they wont nerf everything that was strong to nothing.I know u guys all cry about confusion, but u might have noticed that bleeding can hurt u even more ..at least with confusion u can get away with it by backing off a little. plus all glamour skills have a long cooldown

people cry about thieves stealth but since culling has been fixed i meet way less perma stealth thieves so nerfing that to nothing would be unfair too.(believe me i used to hat fighting thieves, but i don’t want classe to be destroyed by nerfs as i like good fights that are challenging).

warriors need love in wvw, they are great in pve, but in wvw they need a buff!

necros still have a lot of bugs,same with mesmers.

I hope they don’t overnerf shatter skills.

Engineers have a lot of traits that are strong, but still need to have other stuff to be fixed.

There is still thieves with a wayyyy to high duration of stealth, but please don’t nerf it to nothing.

I really hope Anet will not drastically change any of the classes with major nerfs. I know a lot of u have chosen your favorite build and it would be terrible if u had to use another build,because yours got nerfed to kitten!

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Pvp damage/heal nerfs are WAY to big to be implemented in wvw. If they copy them… Then all the fun is gone. Fun is what the game is about NEVER EVER forgat that.

If they nerf both damage and heals doesn’t it even out? Which side is too strong in sPVP? I haven’t played it much since launch, other than one month laurel collection. I didn’t notice that drastic of differences outside of no food, and the locked in amulet stats of course.

Funny how some hipster roamers tell which class need nerf and boost in www.

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Tribio.8531:

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Or to the more organized groups of 15 – 20 people? Those groups do not find confusion to be a problem because we simply cleanse it or pull back.

There is a middle ground

Rookni.2469:

Tribio.8531:

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Or to the more organized groups of 15 – 20 people?

I dont like zergs

Ah, that’s more like it.. imho anyone can give their input, except zerglings..

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

I don’t get this, shouldn’t the pvp in wvw be more balanced towards small groups? It’s impossible to balance well for small groups and the zerg in wvw unfortunately. I’m worried they might ruin skillful play for the benefit of those that like to mass up, which is fine but I’ve seen games balance small encouters very well but large numbers change the dynamics of combat in ways that can’t be helped.

Tribio.8531:

Rookni.2469:

Tribio.8531:

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Or to the more organized groups of 15 – 20 people?

I dont like zergs

Ah, that’s more like it.. imho anyone can give their input, except zerglings..

I will agree on you on that. Rather have roamer input than blob input

Rookni.2469:

Tribio.8531:

Rookni.2469:

Tribio.8531:

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Or to the more organized groups of 15 – 20 people?

I dont like zergs

Ah, that’s more like it.. imho anyone can give their input, except zerglings..

I will agree on you on that. Rather have roamer input than blob input

Exactly this.

Phil.5280:

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

I don’t get this, shouldn’t the pvp in wvw be more balanced towards small groups? It’s impossible to balance well for small groups and the zerg in wvw unfortunately. I’m worried they might ruin skillful play for the benefit of those that like to mass up, which is fine but I’ve seen games balance small encouters very well but large numbers change the dynamics of combat in ways that can’t be helped.

Well yeah. I do not like to mass up and from that perspective there is no way to do adjustments on classes anyway, but adjusting classes in a 1vs1 scenario is also wrong for WvW. Lets say warrior. Not much in small scale, but in a group a warrior shine.

Anet needs to remove the AoE cap or atleast increase it to 10. They need to close the gap of damage going out from a button mashing zerg to a organized smaller group! WvW should not be a numbers game, but a game of units working closely together. Sure there will be pugs and randoms that mass up, but organized groups should be able to outsmart then, not be kittenblocked by a AoE limit

One of the most important things about WvW in making it attractive to people is that you can do it without changing your traits or gear. That doesn’t mean that swapping them isn’t a good idea, but it means that you don’t have to in order to be effective.

The second thing that needs to be remembered is that WvW is not sPvP. If you want to have 1v1 – 5v5 fights that is what sPvP is for. As much as people kitten and moan about the large group fights, that is what WvW is designed for, not for loners and small parties. “Roamers” have strategic value, but they are no more, or less, important than a well placed catapult.

So long as these two things are remembered in any changes then WvW shouldn’t be harmed. Shouldn’t…

Balance!! Doesn’t mean nerfs

I usually don’t do this but I predict confusion nerf (don’t know why but its complained about alot)

Thats all I have at this time

You could say ele’s are OP I guess that depends on what class your play and what spec they are running etc. I don’t see alot of division coming between PvE/WvW

The reveal buff change had to do with sPvP and WvW. Same as the Frenzy/Quickness nerf had to do with both game types frenzy I think more so in sPvP.

Them skill splitting just means that something they where going to change anyway on your favorite class would still get changed but not have any affect on PvE.

how can anyone think this is bad? this is the best news ever. Basically means theyll try to balance WvW with WvW in mind….

Sounds like the smart thing to do, the thing they shouldve done from the start and something i was hoping for in the “big WvW update”.
And as cobrahorse pointed out, more then just a seperation of class balance.

The reason this is important is simply because some abilities are balanced or even underpowered in PvE but just to kitten good in WvW. Confusion is probably on everyones mind, there are other examples ofcourse. I’d rate Line of Warding, Sanctuary and such abilities pretty high aswell.
Where a single Line/sanc can either delay a whole zerg for 6sec untraited or force the early use of mass-stability. And easily split organized groups appart.

Retaliation is definatly another one. I have no problem with large groups of people clumping together. But it makes Retaliation suddenly a very damaging condition. Its not hard to hit a lot of people with your abilities when large groups are involved. Infact, with so many abilities having some aoe-component to them, its quite hard NOT to hit multiple enemies.
Easily returning a ton of damage when Retal is in play, and when is Retal not in play when in a large group that undoubtably has a ton of light-fields from the guardians and blast finishers from everyone else.

And what about Warriors chain-immobilizing with Arrowcarts?

Just some examples of abilities that have a greatly different impact on the game when large groups of players, or Siege, become involved.

Only FEW (very few!) aoe’s need a nerg. That is barrage (10 aoe hits in a row is incredible strong, most aoe’s, tick 1-3 times). And there’s the kit engineers have… Won’t call it out loud, but you know what I mean. Necro marks are good pve, and a big nerf might be to big, but the amount of damage they can do is enormous with maxed out condition damage. Certain melee auto attacks are also to effective.

Zerg vs Zerg should be defocused from melee auto attacking. 2-5 skills, should be the ones that make most difference.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

The second thing that needs to be remembered is that WvW is not sPvP. If you want to have 1v1 – 5v5 fights that is what sPvP is for.

I wish more people understood this. I don’t understand why players insist on having small group fights in WvW when the PvP style was clearly meant to be large-scale.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

One of the most important things about WvW in making it attractive to people is that you can do it without changing your traits or gear. That doesn’t mean that swapping them isn’t a good idea, but it means that you don’t have to in order to be effective.

The second thing that needs to be remembered is that WvW is not sPvP. If you want to have 1v1 – 5v5 fights that is what sPvP is for. As much as people kitten and moan about the large group fights, that is what WvW is designed for, not for loners and small parties. “Roamers” have strategic value, but they are no more, or less, important than a well placed catapult.

So long as these two things are remembered in any changes then WvW shouldn’t be harmed. Shouldn’t…

If they split WvW/PvE they are going to have to code a “build saving” mechanism, so you can switch betwen PvE and WvW builds.

There might have to be some restrictions though (like having to requeue WvW if you switch builds inside), to prevent build min/maxing getting out of control.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

I personally hope they just fix the bug that allows you to /party with enemies… Getting so sick of enraged children and manboys paging me about how much I suck because I either beat them, or they beat me…

I have invited people to my party to set up 1v1’s. and to make peace in jump puzzles…

the jump puzzle thing didnt work because the person didnt speak english :*(

My guess is this will improve zerging even more rofl

Yams.6082:

Sokar Rostau.7316:

The second thing that needs to be remembered is that WvW is not sPvP. If you want to have 1v1 – 5v5 fights that is what sPvP is for.

I wish more people understood this. I don’t understand why players insist on having small group fights in WvW when the PvP style was clearly meant to be large-scale.

Because it is rubbish. Who says that WvW is only large-scale pvp?

WvW is faction and objective based PvP in an open world setting that caters to a wide variety of play styles. The variability of WvW is what makes it interesting regardless if you are playing 1v1, 5v5, or 50v50.

There is a lot more to WvW then storming a castle. The best leaders I ever had could leverage all the different play styles for our common goals.

Gotta say I’m nervous about this. As players, we work hard for our gear with both PVE and WvW in mind. Some of us have done a lot of research about what runes, trinkets, etc to use and farm with the entire game in mind.. Are we gonna find out that all the gear we grinded for is now obsolete or ineffective when we transition from PVE to WvW? Will we now need two sets of gear? One for WvW and one for PVE? There’s so much that could go wrong. Whole classes could get swept under the bus in WvW but shine in PVE. It’ll also ruin the “training period” that occers when leveling. I want my character to be the same everywhere. Are we gonna have to re-trait everytime we enter WvW? The game is working great IMO. No need to seperate and fiddle with something that works extremely well (whiners aside). I hope Anet shows restraint. What WvW really needs is better armor rewards / designs to spend badges on.

Niim.9260:

Yams.6082:

Sokar Rostau.7316:

The second thing that needs to be remembered is that WvW is not sPvP. If you want to have 1v1 – 5v5 fights that is what sPvP is for.

I wish more people understood this. I don’t understand why players insist on having small group fights in WvW when the PvP style was clearly meant to be large-scale.

Because it is rubbish. Who says that WvW is only large-scale pvp?

WvW is faction and objective based PvP in an open world setting that caters to a wide variety of play styles. The variability of WvW is what makes it interesting regardless if you are playing 1v1, 5v5, or 50v50.

There is a lot more to WvW then storming a castle. The best leaders I ever had could leverage all the different play styles for our common goals.

This, anyone who thinks WvW is designed only for zergs clearly don’t get what WvW is about, nor what it was designed from originally (RvR)

The whole idea of WvW is its open world area where you can fight 1 person or 50 depending on your luck. Balancing the game based on a massive zerg is borderline stupid.

Entropy.4732:

Gotta say I’m nervous about this. As players, we work hard for our gear with both PVE and WvW in mind. Some of us have done a lot of research about what runes, trinkets, etc to use and farm with the entire game in mind.. Are we gonna find out that all the gear we grinded for is now obsolete or ineffective when we transition from PVE to WvW? Will we now need two sets of gear? One for WvW and one for PVE? There’s so much that could go wrong. Whole classes could get swept under the bus in WvW but shine in PVE. It’ll also ruin the “training period” that occers when leveling. I want my character to be the same everywhere. Are we gonna have to re-trait everytime we enter WvW? The game is working great IMO. No need to seperate and fiddle with something that works extremely well (whiners aside). I hope Anet shows restraint. What WvW really needs is better armor rewards / designs to spend badges on.

Gear would be the same, a build is a build. Just things won’t be OP

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

The roaming classes are the ones that need the nerfs tbh. Professions were built balance wise around conquer sPVP, while in WvW fighting over a tiny circle that means everything simply doesn’t exist outside of zerg fights on lords which are entirely different. Leaving mobility and escape means overpowered in the open field.

With the split of WvW and PVE now they have a chance to address this.

I for one welcome this seeming inevitability. Kinda surprised it’s taken them so long to come to this point, and I do feel it’ll help make class balance for WvW a tad easier to manage, as they’ll be more free to make changes without fundamentally changing a class completely.

I just pray that the changes are limited to skills and traits. What I’ve always loved about GW2 is the fact that my PVE experiences carry over into when I represent my realm and vice versa. I’m hoping that they don’t make WvW gear, with ‘WvW’ only stats.

i belive confusion /retailation / stealth are on the front line of the balance.
and on the second line are boons
if retailation and boons get nerfed the the karma trains in wvwvw will suffer a lot
Also i predict an large influx of engineirs on wvwvw, i see always 4-5 on every spvp hotjoin… but i start to miss thieves over there.

I hope they buff traps so they throw anybody in stealth out of it if they activate one. At least then we’d have an anti-stealth device in place for use.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I hope they buff traps so they throw anybody in stealth out of it if they activate one. At least then we’d have an anti-stealth device in place for use.

doubt they can make traps antistealth, too short cooldown, too long reveal already… 3 traps … 3 reveals 12 seconds revealed, 1 backstab 16 seconds revealed, traps are already ready to use)

Just so long as they don’t nerf Necromancer Plague form.

That is honestly the only weapon short of a ballista that can counter an enemy zerg.

Rayya.2591:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I hope they buff traps so they throw anybody in stealth out of it if they activate one. At least then we’d have an anti-stealth device in place for use.

doubt they can make traps antistealth, too short cooldown, too long reveal already… 3 traps … 3 reveals 12 seconds revealed, 1 backstab 16 seconds revealed, traps are already ready to use)

Oh the reveal status wouldn’t have its duration upped at all or stacked. But if you just go back into stealth and hit another one less than a second later, well then… laughs demonically

Aeros.2046:

Just so long as they don’t nerf Necromancer Plague form.

That is honestly the only weapon short of a ballista that can counter an enemy zerg.

It only hits 5 people, no single ability or profession is going to counter a zerg. Maybe a line of warding for a few seconds.

Rookni.2469:

Tribio.8531:

Rookni.2469:

If it is the roamers that will have their say on changes in WvW this game is forever doomed!

Yeah, leave it to the zerglings and their “nerf confusion because I cannot spam 1 anymore with it”.. :/

Or to the more organized groups of 15 – 20 people? Those groups do not find confusion to be a problem because we simply cleanse it or pull back.

There is a middle ground

ty!very very true!

From what i heard from a veteran ele s/tPvP player, he says eles are safe. Phew!

Maybe they might actually fix pets so they actually hit anything other than a stationary NPC, change the cooldown, give a ‘both your pets died within 5 seconds, here’s a buff’..oops, dreaming, they don’t really give a kitten about rangers.

BTW where is the source for this? The person mentioned in OP always scares me because he’s to naive on a perfect guild wars 2, making it often worse with naive decisions.

Nerf players pls..

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

BTW where is the source for this? The person mentioned in OP always scares me because he’s to naive on a perfect guild wars 2, making it often worse with naive decisions.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/1819116

Rayya.2591:

i belive confusion /retailation / stealth are on the front line of the balance.
and on the second line are boons
if retailation and boons get nerfed the the karma trains in wvwvw will suffer a lot
Also i predict an large influx of engineirs on wvwvw, i see always 4-5 on every spvp hotjoin… but i start to miss thieves over there.

Boons don’t need anything done to them. If they nerf boons, then they have to nerf conditions as well. I have 50% boon duration from trait points and runes, but guess what, I had to sacrifice a lot of stat points to get that. In sPvP boon duration is half, which is fine because you can just get new gear for free and it’s a small arena. WvW you can have 100 people on screen and you need those boons. Killing off people’s gear is also a bad idea.

Retaliation doesn’t do much. I have a bunker build with Retaliation and I kill people so slowly it’s laughable. The amount of damage Retaliation does back is minimal. Any more nerfs and they should just remove it from the game.

Retaliation on zergs is the reason they have to be careful about increasing the aoe limit. Currently, really only engineers with grenade kit and mesmers with feedback really feel the fury of a zerg with retaliation. It is nasty though, I’ll drop feedback and instantly lost about 12-15k hp from retaliation. When aoe caps are raised, retaliation becomes a very real threat to any aoe classes.