Guild Wars 2

These huge keep/tower standoffs aren’t fun. The main problem is that walls and gates can be insta-repaired after they are downed.

Once a gate or wall is down, there should be at least a 10 minute cooldown until it can be rebuilt or it should take at least the FULL AMOUNT of supply to get it back up again once it reaches zero.

Overall, I am less-than-impressed with WvW because the only way to make real progress is to zerg and the game rewards turtling. There is definitely a lot of tweaking needed.

My only problem with the way siege works in this game is that you can repair when its under attack.

Did you try to take the supply camps near the keep/tower you were assaulting thus starving them of repairs?

I would also like to see a cooldown on the portals … defenders can run in-and-out too often, which tips the balance heavily. If they run outside, they shouldn’t be able to re-enter if they have used the portal in the past 30 seconds.

Lifiane.5203:

Did you try to take the supply camps near the keep/tower you were assaulting thus starving them of repairs?

Yep, but you can’t do anything about 40 players all carrying supply on themselves. One person can bring a downed wall back up.

Caelib.2497:

I would also like to see a cooldown on the portals … defenders can run in-and-out too often, which tips the balance heavily. If they run outside, they shouldn’t be able to re-enter if they have used the portal in the past 30 seconds.

Then no one would ever go out unless it was a serious push and/or use mesmer portals to get in/out.

As for gate/wall repair, I agree that it should not pop back up when it gets 1HP, it should pop up when it reaches 15-20%

Vayra.3290:

Caelib.2497:

I would also like to see a cooldown on the portals … defenders can run in-and-out too often, which tips the balance heavily. If they run outside, they shouldn’t be able to re-enter if they have used the portal in the past 30 seconds.

Then no one would ever go out unless it was a serious push and/or use mesmer portals to get in/out.

As for gate/wall repair, I agree that it should not pop back up when it gets 1HP, it should pop up when it reaches 15-20%

Great suggestion about the 15-20%. Hell even 10%. I’ve been caught many of times inside the wall of Stonemist and had to port back to a keep, kinda sucks when youre pushing ya know?

Mainly it should be changed because the current method is just silly.

Treb hits. Wall down.
I whack it once with my hammer. Wall up.
Treb hits. Wall down.
I whack it once with my hammer. Wall up.

Up, down, up, down. It looks ridiculous and doesn’t really accomplish much.

The wall should just stay down until it gets to 10% repaired or whatever, just to stop it from changing states so fast.

The solution is a bit simpler

make the wall/door have at least 10% health before it resumes being normal.

Draygo.9473:

The solution is a bit simpler

make the wall/door have at least 10% health before it resumes being normal.

You could add some kind of scaffolding model to show that the wall/gate is being repaired and will be going back up.

Walls or doors should require you to repair them to at least 10-20% before they obstruct you again.

Gigachip.9473:

My only problem with the way siege works in this game is that you can repair when its under attack.

Except for all the ridiculous AOE that’s damaging you through the door makes it just a little bit difficult to keep that door repaired.

I actually would like doors to be a bit more solid than they currently are, several illusions go through them as well and some sword swings will hit someone standing very close on the other side. The doors should be full barriers until they are down, that way you have to drain the supplies of the keep you’re attacking like a real siege instead of just preventing repairs. Aside from that, I agree with the OP that once they are down it should take effort to get them back up, not just a single hammer swing.

Even easier: – Walls and gates can NOT be repaired once felled until that keep or tower is uncontested. The same way WP’s work. That will encourage attackers to keep the pressure on and defenders to come out and actually defend rather than hammer on the walls.

As far as encouraging turtling… NO! because if you been under siege for long enough you WILL run out of supply and be unable to repair or build any more defenses. You HAVE to come out to get supply. You seem to forget, this is not a WoW 10 min raid, these sieges are supposed to take along time, to whittle the enemy down, even longer with more upgrades. That really annoys me, when ppl try to hit a tower or keep, fail the first time and give up on it for the rest of the day.. keep plugging, keep starving them out, eventually they will have to come out.

Cool downs on portals? LOL Is there a cool down on your front door at home? NO! Defenders will ALWAYS have an advantage, their walls, supply, reinforcements. Think clever and try to remove these advantages. As a thief popping in and out of the portals is what i do. On the flip side, it happens to us. That’s their house man and we are the unwanted guests.

Karicus.8356:

Even easier: – Walls and gates can NOT be repaired once felled until that keep or tower is uncontested. The same way WP’s work. That will encourage attackers to keep the pressure on and defenders to come out and actually defend rather than hammer on the walls.

As far as encouraging turtling… NO! because if you been under siege for long enough you WILL run out of supply and be unable to repair or build any more defenses. You HAVE to come out to get supply. You seem to forget, this is not a WoW 10 min raid, these sieges are supposed to take along time, to whittle the enemy down, even longer with more upgrades. That really annoys me, when ppl try to hit a tower or keep, fail the first time and give up on it for the rest of the day.. keep plugging, keep starving them out, eventually they will have to come out.

Cool downs on portals? LOL Is there a cool down on your front door at home? NO! Defenders will ALWAYS have an advantage, their walls, supply, reinforcements. Think clever and try to remove these advantages. As a thief popping in and out of the portals is what i do. On the flip side, it happens to us. That’s their house man and we are the unwanted guests.

I like this idea as it makes seige the primary reason to have supply at a keep after upgrades. This is short of an upkeep cost at keeps and towers.

I agree with this except for the fact that he said 10 minutes. I think it should take quite some time to get walls/gates repaired and agreeing again with Vayra. They should not actually be able to block until it is at least 10% repaired. I’d even stretch to 15%.

Opinions obviously, but hey.

I agree, something has to be done.
Best idea IMO d be making impossible to repair completly broken parts (walls, gates) while keep is still under attack in their vicinity.

Emnel.1537:

I agree, something has to be done.
Best idea IMO d be making impossible to repair completly broken parts (walls, gates) while keep is still under attack in their vicinity.

That is easily explotable though. As one player hiding somewhere could stop the gate or wall from being built the entire game.
THAT, I disagree with. But good thinking.

It’s not like the map is filled with hiding spots or something. Nowadays you have to check every keep you take for hiding mesmers anyway.
I think that mechanic like this could be implemented in some reasonable way. Also seems more “natural” than some stated above (it seems like a common sense that you should drive enemy away before you start rebuilding your collapsed walls).

That’s true. I guess you’re right.

A reasonable way? Hm. Not allowed to repair whilst attackers are past and inside the gate and walls itself?
I think that’d be fair, if you slapped on the not popping up until 10% as well

I think making the rebuild point between 20-50% gives players enough time to repair, while making supply lines harder to maintain should the keep be closer to the spawn or another faction.

Caelib.2497:

These huge keep/tower standoffs aren’t fun. The main problem is that walls and gates can be insta-repaired after they are downed.

Once a gate or wall is down, there should be at least a 10 minute cooldown until it can be rebuilt or it should take at least the FULL AMOUNT of supply to get it back up again once it reaches zero.

Overall, I am less-than-impressed with WvW because the only way to make real progress is to zerg and the game rewards turtling. There is definitely a lot of tweaking needed.

^ this.

I have nothing constructive to add as a suggestion to fix these… mechanics. I have no clue. I don’t get paid to make games.

All I know is, there are a lot of balancing issues, that were never addressed from the beta. My excitement is gone and I’m looking at it more skeptically now.

I get rewarded more for being afk inside a keep than I do for actually risking my armor out in the field. Just defend. Just join the safe zerg (can always bail on them while they wipe if the enemy zerg is bigger).

The more selfish I play, the more I walk out with money. (not like I can do anything else, we’re being steamrolled—or doing the steamrolling)

During the 24 hour (or less) matches, I had “solo” defended Stone Mist after a force of 30-40 worked their way inside. I simply ran away and repaired the wall they broke in through, and the same to the gate they bashed to get to the Lord. It divided their players up and they were just cleaned up casually.

It felt great. It was easy, and “cheap”. But was that balance? No. I was 1 person and if I didn’t do it, they would have piled in while our lethargic defense took their time to arrive late. I didn’t even need 20 Supply. I used my 10 on one repair, then I grabbed the last 4 Supply from the Depot to repair another. So funny to see people showing up and unable to get in, having to hit the walls again. But too late, their force was broken and our solo players cleaned up their team. We were like chickens without heads, but we won.

I also was on the other side of that dilemma. We fought to reclaim one of our Borderland Keeps, and they repaired the wall while we worked on the final gate. Half died and couldn’t return to help. Our force got divided, and a much smaller force was able to whittle us down. It was worthless, since we did a ton of work to get to that point, and only got a bill for our wasted services.

WvW encourages leeching. Either through Turtling or running with the mob Zerging. There are great selfless players, but I’m tired of the costly risk and will take the simple leeching path for now.

If the gate is “in combat” , you should not be able to repair it, just like daoc.

Oh, and I’m a bit curious. When we take over an upgraded tower or keep, what happened to the supply and upgrades they had? I mean, it would make a little bit more sense to get rewarded based on what the place already had. The walls would still be reinforced, the unspent supply still there….

Part of the problem with the balance is if one side is clearly imbalanced, they get so far ahead and upgraded, that the losing sides can only fight a long fight to take over a weak point. As the losers, they don’t have the resources to hold the point, let alone get supply to upgrade it. They are already the underdogs.

I highly doubt (from what I’ve seen) that WvW is going to end up match-making against equal servers. It is all over the place with so many servers having a 100k lead over the other two.

Karicus.8356:

Even easier: – Walls and gates can NOT be repaired once felled until that keep or tower is uncontested. The same way WP’s work. That will encourage attackers to keep the pressure on and defenders to come out and actually defend rather than hammer on the walls.

As far as encouraging turtling… NO! because if you been under siege for long enough you WILL run out of supply and be unable to repair or build any more defenses. You HAVE to come out to get supply. You seem to forget, this is not a WoW 10 min raid, these sieges are supposed to take along time, to whittle the enemy down, even longer with more upgrades. That really annoys me, when ppl try to hit a tower or keep, fail the first time and give up on it for the rest of the day.. keep plugging, keep starving them out, eventually they will have to come out.

Cool downs on portals? LOL Is there a cool down on your front door at home? NO! Defenders will ALWAYS have an advantage, their walls, supply, reinforcements. Think clever and try to remove these advantages. As a thief popping in and out of the portals is what i do. On the flip side, it happens to us. That’s their house man and we are the unwanted guests.

I think most are fine with the concept of wearing them down and starving them out. I think we kind of find that thought (epic battles) encouraging.

The problem is, we waste actual money on the siege we use and the repairs from dying. But we are not rewarded for anything until we get in and conquer. If I die 4 times to finally take over a point that we “almost” had for a while, I get a reward that will not cover those deaths. A lot of work and I leave WvW with a bill for playing.

So if we fail on a point because too many suicided themselves on the wall’s arrow carts, oil, and cannons (stupid move), then our whole team is hurting and I know I’m going to die for these other people…. yeah, I’m going to quit sooner than stick it out. I’ll go somewhere safer and more rewarding. They just lost me (and others like me) who are quality players that can’t be selfless every single time.

Strategically, it is far superior to keep at it and push push push. But I’m more aware of my pockets first, and how much it’ll cost me. (Karma should be enough of a sink to encourage intelligent use of siege cost. Whoever thought that a pvp environment should cost gold and require armor repairs is not an intelligent designer)