Guild Wars 2

I just want to clear up the confusion about what a system like this is, as well as shed light on the benefits of implementing one.

Before I explain the details of such a system, I want to explain the reasoning for it. An intelligently designed Realm Rank system would give individual players a form of long-term end-game progression for open world/WvW game-play. This ranking system would be VERY LONG with ‘no end in sight’. It would be unrealistic for anyone to ‘grind’ through it like you can with leveling or gearing.

This system would reward you based on your individual skill and nothing else. This system would not reward players that simply ‘put more time’ into the game. It would reward players that perform better consistently, win more fights, kill more players per death ect.

This system would NOT give any character a significant STAT or GEAR advantage over other players. I would not want 5 high Realm Rank players to be able to fight 20 average players.

This system would give you SMALL 1% stat increases, or specific effects that are active while you are in WvW. As well as a new title per Realm Rank.

Here is an example of how a system like this could work:

There are 25 Realm Ranks. Everyone starts at Realm Rank 1 and points are accumulated per player kill in WvW. Points are ONLY given for killing players, (siege weapons do not count). The reason they are only given for killing other players is because points you get for taking keeps are already focused on matching up the weekly servers. This is a separate system, that is intended to express a players skill in actual combat.

The points you are given per kill will be based on these factors. How many friendly players assisted in the kill. What % of damage you did to the player. What Realm Rank the player is. (You would get more points for killing a high Realm Rank player than you would for being a high Realm Rank player killing a lower one.)

This system in my opinion allows average sized, but highly skilled groups to shine. As players fighting with a large ‘zerg’ will always be getting less points per kill. Smaller groups that kill a larger amount of players will be getting much more points per kill, allowing them to advance in Realm Rank faster.

Keep in mind that this system would be designed in such a way (using math) to keep the majority of players around the same Realm Rank. Seeing as there are no ‘overpowered’ Realm Rank rewards, a higher Realm Rank player is not going to have a very significant advantage over anyone else.

Here are some Ideas for Balanced Realm Rank rewards.
Realm Rank rewards could be a WvW specific Trait or Talent system.

1 point per Realm Rank Level. (or something like that)

Spend the points in the following:
(The higher % rewards would be after spending many points in that trait and obviously at a high Realm Rank you could not have all of these.)

Gain 1%, 3%, 5% 10% more total Power in WvW
Gain 1%, 3%, 5%, 10% more total Vitality in WvW
Gain 1%, 3%, 5%, 10% more total Toughness in WvW
Gain 1%, 3%, 5%, 10% more total Precision in WvW
Take 1%, 3%, 5,%,10% less total magic damage in WvW
Take 1%, 3%, 5%, 10% less total melee damage in WvW
Reduce ‘Insert Effect Here’ by 5%, 10%, 15% , 25% in WvW

(Also, Expensive but Unique Passive/automatic abilities could be added)

Whenever you fall below 25% hp all damage received is reduced by 50% for 5 seconds.
When you rally, you will take 50% less damage for 5 seconds.
When you kill an enemy player you gain X effect for 5 seconds.
When you revive a player you gain X effect for 5 seconds.
While wielding a Shield you gain a 15% increase to toughness.
While wielding a Greatsword you gain a 5% increase to movement speed.

And so on..

With only so many points to spend, but SO MANY different stat upgrades each player will have a variety of different options to choose from. An intelligently designed Realm Rank system would provide long term individual character progression. This system would be balanced, allowing for most players to be around the same Realm Rank and thus never having one player become ‘overpowered’ in the same way as having better gear could in other games.

This system would have no effect on SPvP or PvE because these effects are only active in WvW.

Discuss

no, stop trying to gain an advantage over new players just because you died more

This is exactly the kind of crap this game was designed to avoid. No bonuses for grinding.

And here come all the carebears who want a bland game that they can smash buttons in a zerg and win. With no progression after 80 this game will be a ghost town and then you can pve gates and yaks to your hearts content.

“no, stop trying to gain an advantage over new players just because you died more”

Almost makes no sense, please only reply with an actual thought. If you have nothing to say, simply don’t post.

“This is exactly the kind of crap this game was designed to avoid. No bonuses for grinding.”

Apparently you didn’t read anything I wrote, because I made it very clear that ‘grinding’ would not be a realistic way to progress. The amount of time played would have little effect with a system such as this. You would be rewarded for ‘playing’ and having fun. Everyone is rewarded.

tarnin.1690:

And here come all the carebears who want a bland game that they can smash buttons in a zerg and win.

wut

tarnin.1690:

With no progression after 80 this game will be a ghost town and then you can pve gates and yaks to your hearts content.

I agree with you there. But Arenanet explicitly designed this game to marginalize endgame progression. I doubt they are going to change that.

“And here come all the carebears who want a bland game that they can smash buttons in a zerg and win. With no progression after 80 this game will be a ghost town and then you can pve gates and yaks to your hearts content.”

I do feel that progression is important. Also I do not think having completely equal characters in WvW is fun because that is what SPvP is for. WvW is not an e-sport and it should be fun for everyone. With intelligently designed progression, it will be balanced and everyone ‘gets some’

forthegz.5814:

“no, stop trying to gain an advantage over new players just because you died more”

Almost makes no sense, please only reply with an actual thought. If you have nothing to say, simply don’t post.

“This is exactly the kind of crap this game was designed to avoid. No bonuses for grinding.”

Apparently you didn’t read anything I wrote, because I made it very clear that ‘grinding’ would not be a realistic way to progress. The amount of time played would have little effect with a system such as this. You would be rewarded for ‘playing’ and having fun. Everyone is rewarded.

Just because you say you aren’t proposing grinding doesn’t mean you aren’t proposing grinding.

Sorry zerging is what arenanet has wanted, this game will die slowly. It’s free so the death will be slow. But, it will still die. The game promotes zerging, afaik there is no group mechanic of sharing loot or exp karma etc.. So they would need to recode some type of party splitting method. Sadly. I think this is not something they can do, unless it’s an expansion.I suspect an expansion might bring the stuff we want. But, it’s gonna be awhile.

This game hates guilds like us forthegz, they like the Zerg guilds and goonsquads and ruins where numbers = winning. There will never be a place for small man pvp in WvW, before someone else says it.. " go play spvp" because that’s the responses you’re gonna get, beyond the idiot like responses you’ve already received.

Keep the system but remove any and all things that give an advantage to a higher rank player. Keep it to cosmetics (stuff similar to cow finisher too!), titles/ranks and web based statistics and then there is zero reason not to do this. Just make it so that people you are fighting can tell your rank based on your title/skins/rank and it will make your kitten wiggle enough to keep playing.

forthegz.5814:

Points are ONLY given for killing players, (siege weapons do not count). The reason they are only given for killing other players is because points you get for taking keeps are already focused on matching up the weekly servers. This is a separate system, that is intended to express a players skill in actual combat.

I stopped reading there. It’s not the place to be “rewarding” the “skill” of a players combat. This isn’t deathmatch where two zergs run at each other over and over. It’s designed not to promote that… I would hate to see players have additional advantages over others simply because they’ve played more. There should be a natural advantage because they’ve played more, and are better than others.

If after hundreds of hours of WvW, you still suck, then you shouldn’t beat a player who is better than you just because you have special traits for playing for hundreds of hours.

Salamol.7963:

forthegz.5814:

Points are ONLY given for killing players, (siege weapons do not count). The reason they are only given for killing other players is because points you get for taking keeps are already focused on matching up the weekly servers. This is a separate system, that is intended to express a players skill in actual combat.

I stopped reading there. It’s not the place to be “rewarding” the “skill” of a players combat. This isn’t deathmatch where two zergs run at each other over and over. It’s designed not to promote that… I would hate to see players have additional advantages over others simply because they’ve played more. There should be a natural advantage because they’ve played more, and are better than others.

If after hundreds of hours of WvW, you still suck, then you shouldn’t beat a player who is better than you just because you have special traits for playing for hundreds of hours.

This is a good point. Skill is too subjective to qualify in this game.

There is no “skill” really in this game though. the combat is really dumbed down. More so then even WoW. The idea here though isn’t to smash face after playing for a year, its about progression.

I loved DAoC as well, but no. GW2 is based on the principle that gear and time spent does not affect PvP.

I put my time getting my ‘Ard Tiarna’ status in DAoC, and I put my time getting my gladiator title for WoW. You know what? Slapping around players because I have Ignore Pain 30, Master of Criticals 700, or my Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me is boring. Only people with serious life fulfillment issues need the sort of emasculation that comes with beating up people who can’t fight back at the same level as you.

I wouldn’t mind Realm Rank titles as a recognition reward, but I’ll vehemently oppose any sort of stat/power modification.

“If after hundreds of hours of WvW, you still suck, then you shouldn’t beat a player who is better than you just because you have special traits for playing for hundreds of hours.”

How can you even say that after reading this post? I stated very clearly that this system would NOT reward players for simply PLAYING MORE OFTEN, but playing better. Also no one would ‘win because of special traits’. If designed correctly there would be only very small advantages. Also EVERYONE would have these advantages, thus balancing itself. Very FEW extremely skilled players/groups would have VERY SLIGHT advantages that would never be the deciding factor in a fight. Skill would always be the deciding factor with this system.

Really, this system gives everyone something fun and cool to progress toward while in WvW, while at the same time taking away from the fact that right now… NUMBERS matter way more than skill in most situations. 10v10, yes all skill. But 20v10.. guess what, skill becomes less of a factor and regardless of how good those 10 players are, 20 people button smashing and moving full speed (because of casting while moving) will always win.

A system like this would balance that out.

It just never ends with some people lol
Everyone is even period
So funny how people want to do whatever it takes to get an advantage over others
There is no individuals in WvW. A person who lets say tries to accomplish stuff with a small group and die alot for doing it would be at a disadvantage of an AoEr who just follows a zerg around lol
People are unreal

mangarrage.1062:

It just never ends with some people lol
Everyone is even period
So funny how people want to do whatever it takes to get an advantage over others
There is no individuals in WvW. A person who lets say tries to accomplish stuff with a small group and die alot for doing it would be at a disadvantage of an AoEr who just follows a zerg around lol
People are unreal

So sorry your mentality of progression is so bland that it kills off games. There is a reason all the WoW lite clones die. It’s boring. People play for a bit then quit because there is little substance. You cry out “I want it NOW, i want it MY WAY, I DON’T want to work for anything!” they listen, game closes up shop or ghost towns for a while before shutting down.

The saddest part is the developers listen to carebears like you and kill their own games.

If you are complaining about advantage in WvW ,then go play structured PvP as it was intended by Anet ^^.

this is completely the opposite of what anet wanted gw2 to be and vast majority of the player pop. For your sake I hope this was a troll post

Do i get any bonus points?

I called the pvp comment, and of course the casual zergers are out in force!

forthegz.5814:

How can you even say that after reading this post? I stated very clearly that this system would NOT reward players for simply PLAYING MORE OFTEN, but playing better. Also no one would ‘win because of special traits’. If designed correctly there would be only very small advantages. Also EVERYONE would have these advantages, thus balancing itself. Very FEW extremely skilled players/groups would have VERY SLIGHT advantages that would never be the deciding factor in a fight. Skill would always be the deciding factor with this system.

Except that as with all reward systems, it does by definition reward players for playing “MORE OFTEN”. The only thing this would do is create a barrier to entry for new players who begin with no benefits. I would stand to benefit heavily from this system since most of the PvP population still doesn’t know the Toughness and Vitality stats exist, yet I still want no part of it.

The best way to sum this up is:

A small advantage is still an advantage. If if doesn’t make a difference, then why do you want it so badly?

At first I was intrigued then I read into the advantages experienced players get compared to casual players, no.

Here’s the problem.
Some of us suck at killing other players.
Some of us constantly get trounced when fighting one-on-one against another player.
Some of us are better at scouting.
Some of us are better at tactics.
Some of us are better at sieging.
Some of us put dozens of silver coins into making sure the various camps and towers get upgraded.
Some of us escort dolyaks and face no opponents because they’re busy defending from our zerg.
Some of us focus on the NPC guards (Like the sentries, or unguarded camps. Not the random animals, of course).

Some of us are glad we don’t have to constantly die against other players like in sPVP.

So what do WE get in this system? I’m already a bit bothered that I spent ten minutes destroying a wall of a Keep, yet didn’t get any credit for taking it because I wasn’t standing inside the circle during the capture.

Cloud.7613:

At first I was intrigued then I read into the advantages experienced players get compared to casual players, no.

I would rather have flair, like a General’s uniform, or my display name changed to “Tarnished Coast Great Lord/Lady”, honestly.

What do you get now Chessrook?

willwill.9318:

Sorry zerging is what arenanet has wanted, this game will die slowly. It’s free so the death will be slow. But, it will still die. The game promotes zerging, afaik there is no group mechanic of sharing loot or exp karma etc.. So they would need to recode some type of party splitting method. Sadly. I think this is not something they can do, unless it’s an expansion.I suspect an expansion might bring the stuff we want. But, it’s gonna be awhile.

This game hates guilds like us forthegz, they like the Zerg guilds and goonsquads and ruins where numbers = winning. There will never be a place for small man pvp in WvW, before someone else says it.. " go play spvp" because that’s the responses you’re gonna get, beyond the idiot like responses you’ve already received.

Me and my guild, we are a small guild on SF. [eels] We move in 5 man parties and take out camps, stop supply caravans, take smaller towers, and generally defend anything that needs defending using siege weapons.

There is definitely a need for small guilds in WvW. If you only have a giant zerg running around, the enemy knows exactly where you are at all times and can easily just retake everything you take from them.

Dinks.2478:

willwill.9318:

Sorry zerging is what arenanet has wanted, this game will die slowly. It’s free so the death will be slow. But, it will still die. The game promotes zerging, afaik there is no group mechanic of sharing loot or exp karma etc.. So they would need to recode some type of party splitting method. Sadly. I think this is not something they can do, unless it’s an expansion.I suspect an expansion might bring the stuff we want. But, it’s gonna be awhile.

This game hates guilds like us forthegz, they like the Zerg guilds and goonsquads and ruins where numbers = winning. There will never be a place for small man pvp in WvW, before someone else says it.. " go play spvp" because that’s the responses you’re gonna get, beyond the idiot like responses you’ve already received.

Me and my guild, we are a small guild on SF. [eels] We move in 5 man parties and take out camps, stop supply caravans, take smaller towers, and generally defend anything that needs defending using siege weapons.

There is definitely a need for small guilds in WvW. If you only have a giant zerg running around, the enemy knows exactly where you are at all times and can easily just retake everything you take from them.

Ya no, the map is so small even a massive zerg in all it’s slowness can turn and retake everything in minutes. That’s a HUGE issue with W3, the maps are closets. There is no way you should be able to set up siege and Treb from one structure to another. Too small, too boring. As small man, how boring does doing the horseshoe get? kitten boring, and you run into a zerg a ton. Even EB, while larger, its small as heck because so much is just crammed into the map.

“I put my time getting my ‘Ard Tiarna’ status in DAoC, and I put my time getting my gladiator title for WoW. You know what? Slapping around players because I have Ignore Pain 30, Master of Criticals 700, or my Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me is boring. Only people with serious life fulfillment issues need the sort of emasculation that comes with beating up people who can’t fight back at the same level as you.

I wouldn’t mind Realm Rank titles as a recognition reward, but I’ll vehemently oppose any sort of stat/power modification."

I was pretty surprised to even read this here. What are you even talking about? I said nothing about gear, in-fact gear advantages and things like resilience in WoW are terrible and certainly not good for this game.

But again, I must reiterate the fact that you didn’t seem to grasp or read what I was trying to explain. Everyone that plays would end up getting a reward, they would all have that very small upgrades. There would not be players that have an enormous advantage over anyone else, because the rewards would be balanced, and logical. Not stat upgrades that are going to make someone overpowered.

Also if everyone has them, there would only be a few % difference between players. And seeing as gear is pretty much completely equal in WvW.. it will make things a little bit more fun. But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights. So that numbers don’t play as much of a factor as they do now.

“A small advantage is still an advantage. If if doesn’t make a difference, then why do you want it so badly?”

Also, this is a good question to ask and I understand why you ask.

The answer is that I don’t give a hell what my character looks like. I don’t want ‘cosmetic’ upgrades. Everyone could view my character model as a blue circle. What we should have is progression that makes our characters better over the life of the game.

I’m not a 14 year old Asian boy designing my avatar. I don’t want a cosmetic and simply ‘title’ ranking system in place because I want to feel like what I am progressing through MATTERS. Titles and the way your gear look means nothing to me.

forthegz.5814:

“I put my time getting my ‘Ard Tiarna’ status in DAoC, and I put my time getting my gladiator title for WoW. You know what? Slapping around players because I have Ignore Pain 30, Master of Criticals 700, or my Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me is boring. Only people with serious life fulfillment issues need the sort of emasculation that comes with beating up people who can’t fight back at the same level as you.

I wouldn’t mind Realm Rank titles as a recognition reward, but I’ll vehemently oppose any sort of stat/power modification."

I was pretty surprised to even read this here. What are you even talking about? I said nothing about gear, in-fact gear advantages and things like resilience in WoW are terrible and certainly not good for this game.

But again, I must reiterate the fact that you didn’t seem to grasp or read what I was trying to explain. Everyone that plays would end up getting a reward, they would all have that very small upgrades. There would not be players that have an enormous advantage over anyone else, because the rewards would be balanced, and logical. Not stat upgrades that are going to make someone overpowered.

Also if everyone has them, there would only be a few % difference between players. And seeing as gear is pretty much completely equal in WvW.. it will make things a little bit more fun. But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights. So that numbers don’t play as much of a factor as they do now.

Im almost thinking hes full of crap. WTF is Ignore Pain 30 and Master of Criticals 700? Looks like he went out and found a RR list and some abilities. As a matter of face, IP wasnt over powered at all. No way he has a clue or he would have called out MoC or Pain Spike on a Warlock.

“Here’s the problem.
Some of us suck at killing other players.
Some of us constantly get trounced when fighting one-on-one against another player.
Some of us are better at scouting.
Some of us are better at tactics.
Some of us are better at sieging.
Some of us put dozens of silver coins into making sure the various camps and towers get upgraded.
Some of us escort dolyaks and face no opponents because they’re busy defending from our zerg.
Some of us focus on the NPC guards (Like the sentries, or unguarded camps. Not the random animals, of course).

Some of us are glad we don’t have to constantly die against other players like in sPVP.

So what do WE get in this system? I’m already a bit bothered that I spent ten minutes destroying a wall of a Keep, yet didn’t get any credit for taking it because I wasn’t standing inside the circle during the capture."

So… if you’re not very interested in killing players and you seem to be more focused on taking keeps and such. Why do you care what happens when you do kill players?

In DAoC you did get realm points for taking a keep/tower. So you would get it for yaks/camps/towers/keeps/garrisons/road points. Not sure what the issue is here.

It’s a good idea but it needs tweaking a bit. I don’t like the idea of stat boots or skill bonuses as casual players would suffer over hard core gamers even if its not intended that way fact of the matter is if a skilled but casual player can play for 2 hours a day and get 10 points an hour while a less skilled but more active player can play for 5 hours and only amass 5 points an hour they are still being rewarded for the amount of time they play.

It’s very difficult to quantify skill over time you could however run it with cosmetic bonuses, titles, skins for your gear you could transmute to it, badges of honour maybe but keep it away from anything that would ever give anvantage as high lvl players with exotic gear already have an advantage over lvl 20’s with magic gear or whatever.

Change the way you obtain it though, you could get points for killing a person or defending a dolyac, killing tower npcs, taking out camps etc. The same way you get karma and gold etc for joining in these events you could also get WvW points based on your contribution like the bronze, silver and gold. It could almost work as an improvement to the system already implemented that gives you titles in your achievments for killing so many people etc but it could be broader and give you more than a title and emcompass everything instead of something specific.

You could even have levels, 1 – 80 same as the character cap and every 20 levels after 15 you could get a title and every 20 levels after 20 you could get a skin like increasing in rank. Though to try and make it a bit harder or make you try out all areas for the very best “levels” there could be requirements, to become level 10 you would need to have taken or defended 3 camps as well as gaining 10,000 points in total, level 80 could require you to take/defend stonemist once or take/defend 10 garrisons (as some servers might find taking stonemist a bit much) along with the point requirements. It wouldnt force people to spend a long time doing something they don’t like if they prefer being on small teams that go on camp raids but it would be enough to say I’ve tried out all of WvWvW.

Just to be clear with the talk of levels, these wouldnt be stat increases or allow you to wear better gear they would be cosmetic levels only.

Thats my two cents, if you wanted to help flesh out achievements in WvWvW a bit more and give people something else to strive for.

This thread killed a good 2% of my brain cells.

1. Get out now,no nope never nadda hell no should there ever be any form of stat increase from anything you can leave and never be missed stop you whining.

2. The is already a ranking system for WvW that gives title for doing X of X like caps,escorts,kills,etc

3. I wouldn’t mind a title/player rank based off K/D,Caps,Revives,etc(all things supporting in WvW map yadda yadda. But by no means does it bother me I play for fun and to kill people not to “be better or have better or look better or etc” then someone else not that doing in style isn’t bad.

4. It would be nice to have more support related rewards(siege weapons in back healing reviving etc then there is as I don’t get anything from scouting other then PVP kills)

@Tarnin

You make a good point about that. With the current point system in place you could totally have everyone receive points for yaks, supply camps, keeps towers and the lot.

Math+ player trends (stats for how often things get taken and such + how many points are given for everything per player) using that information would allow you to figure out a balanced system.

No game rewards scouting. You are doing jack all that the game can calculate. If you got anything for scouting, you could just hide out somewhere and reap free <insert reward here>

Rewarding scouting isn’t hard its done all the time in FPS games planetside 2,battlefield 3 etc. but the sheer amount of programming and math needed for new systems like this and logical analysis systems is a bit out of the question unless included in a fairly hefty update anyone can jot down a idea but putting it into motion is another thing.

TheKow.7604:

Rewarding scouting isn’t hard its done all the time in FPS games planetside 2,battlefield 3 etc. but the sheer amount of programming and math needed for new systems like this and logical analysis systems is a bit out of the question unless included in a fairly hefty update anyone can jot down a idea but putting it into motion is another thing.

The issue is stealth. When you can go invisible you just camp all day. All you would have to do is hide out and jump and down over and over again (any programmable kb/mouse could do this) and rake in your rewards. The never ending nature of an MMO is what makes it near impossible to code correctly.

Its strange to me that its so common for people to disagree about ‘grinding’ or better gear or stat upgrades. Cosmetic and titles don’t matter… they don’t DO anything. Progression should be about making your character better throughout the life of the game..

In League of Legends, everyone STARTS OFF at the same place. But eventually, better players get better things based on how well they do. In most other MMOs GEAR has defined how powerful your character is.

I think those examples are EXTREME.. way too much. But going all the way to the opposite is just ridiculous. I don’t want cosmetic upgrades and titles to show off, while everyone is completely equal. I want the endgame WvW Progression TO MATTER , to do something.

The stat upgrades in a smart system WOULD NOT be as extreme as gear in other games and RR in DAOC. It would simply be small % variations between players, for the most part based on skill. But EVERYONE gets some, and everyone will be a whole host of ranks. So as long as a higher person is not THAT over powered, which ENTIRELY depends on how intelligently the system is designed.. there should be no balancing issues. Skill will remain the be the driving factor in WvW.

tarnin.1690:

The issue is stealth. When you can go invisible you just camp all day. All you would have to do is hide out and jump and down over and over again (any programmable kb/mouse could do this) and rake in your rewards. The never ending nature of an MMO is what makes it near impossible to code correctly.

Sadly your misunderstanding scouting,let me break it down in MMO format close to another game with stealth classes and such.

Enabling a system much like commando title(but without the shiny blue shield) maybe a smoke/flare you could mark a clear/empty outpost or small group of players think of wars in 1900’s where smoke where to be set off admist a group or base and then mortar teams would fallow up with a shelling. same could be done here some marks a spot then if its attack/taken/killed within X time of mark they get assist/scout credits allowing a scout to mark empty supply camp within say 10 mins a smapp group attacks and takes it the scout/scouts who marked it would then get a small credit in its capping.

If i have to explain how to keep afkers from doing this so be it but this is not the thread for this topic its the thread for a logical analysis system that rewards players(witch it shouldn’t other then title maybe)in WvW

EDIT: to the post above me that’s cause no one wants that crude in this game other then WoW players and other baddies people here like to have fun kill people and do so in style/skill not from stats if you have such a problem with this then play another game or get use to it.On a Technical side please refer to my post on logical analysis system and how hard it can be to add to a game or look into making one yourself and realizing how much trouble it can be.

“anyone can jot down a idea but putting it into motion is another thing”

Also.. its not like there are just 2 kind of players… there are people who have no idea really what we’re even talking about and probably don’t know about the forums.. there are people who understand, but would play regardless because the game is awesome…

Also.. its not like there are just 2 kind of players… there are people who have no idea really what we’re even talking about and probably don’t know about the forums.. there are people who understand, but would play regardless because the game is awesome…Some people want balanced equal pvp, some want open world pvp with character progression… this game have the potential to house both effectively.

tarnin.1690:

forthegz.5814:

“I put my time getting my ‘Ard Tiarna’ status in DAoC, and I put my time getting my gladiator title for WoW. You know what? Slapping around players because I have Ignore Pain 30, Master of Criticals 700, or my Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me is boring. Only people with serious life fulfillment issues need the sort of emasculation that comes with beating up people who can’t fight back at the same level as you.

I wouldn’t mind Realm Rank titles as a recognition reward, but I’ll vehemently oppose any sort of stat/power modification."

I was pretty surprised to even read this here. What are you even talking about? I said nothing about gear, in-fact gear advantages and things like resilience in WoW are terrible and certainly not good for this game.

But again, I must reiterate the fact that you didn’t seem to grasp or read what I was trying to explain. Everyone that plays would end up getting a reward, they would all have that very small upgrades. There would not be players that have an enormous advantage over anyone else, because the rewards would be balanced, and logical. Not stat upgrades that are going to make someone overpowered.

Also if everyone has them, there would only be a few % difference between players. And seeing as gear is pretty much completely equal in WvW.. it will make things a little bit more fun. But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights. So that numbers don’t play as much of a factor as they do now.

Im almost thinking hes full of crap. WTF is Ignore Pain 30 and Master of Criticals 700? Looks like he went out and found a RR list and some abilities. As a matter of face, IP wasnt over powered at all. No way he has a clue or he would have called out MoC or Pain Spike on a Warlock.

There’s no “Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me” either. Ignore pain was basically a 30-100% heal you could spend realm points on that almost everyone took because it essentially an extra life. It’s also been too long for me to remember what the name of the permanent crit realm ability was. The point was the concept of “needing” and advantage. The OP keeps claiming it’s okay because things like 1%/5%/10% hp are only “small” advantages. The point is, why do you want these trivial gains if they won’t make a difference?

But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights.

No. The combat economics of scale mean that these hypothetical bonuses would have to be fairly substantial to even make a slight difference in a zerg fight. And how would any accumulated past ‘points’ translate into SKILL in a present fight.

TheKow.7604:

tarnin.1690:

The issue is stealth. When you can go invisible you just camp all day. All you would have to do is hide out and jump and down over and over again (any programmable kb/mouse could do this) and rake in your rewards. The never ending nature of an MMO is what makes it near impossible to code correctly.

Sadly your misunderstanding scouting,let me break it down in MMO format close to another game with stealth classes and such.

Enabling a system much like commando title(but without the shiny blue shield) maybe a smoke/flare you could mark a clear/empty outpost or small group of players think of wars in 1900’s where smoke where to be set off admist a group or base and then mortar teams would fallow up with a shelling. same could be done here some marks a spot then if its attack/taken/killed within X time of mark they get assist/scout credits allowing a scout to mark empty supply camp within say 10 mins a smapp group attacks and takes it the scout/scouts who marked it would then get a small credit in its capping.

If i have to explain how to keep afkers from doing this so be it but this is not the thread for this topic its the thread for a logical analysis system that rewards players(witch it shouldn’t other then title maybe)in WvW

Hmm, i don’t play FPS games as you can tell. Sounds interesting and not sure why it’s never been implemented into an MMO with Open PvP before.

tarnin.1690:

mangarrage.1062:

It just never ends with some people lol
Everyone is even period
So funny how people want to do whatever it takes to get an advantage over others
There is no individuals in WvW. A person who lets say tries to accomplish stuff with a small group and die alot for doing it would be at a disadvantage of an AoEr who just follows a zerg around lol
People are unreal

So sorry your mentality of progression is so bland that it kills off games. There is a reason all the WoW lite clones die. It’s boring. People play for a bit then quit because there is little substance. You cry out “I want it NOW, i want it MY WAY, I DON’T want to work for anything!” they listen, game closes up shop or ghost towns for a while before shutting down.

The saddest part is the developers listen to carebears like you and kill their own games.

Holy lol
From a person who has been playing these games since there were these games and a person who hates WoW more then anything else in the world I do not understand your post at me at all. I am not the one asking for anything, so how am I be I want it now lol.
Sorry but youre barking up the wrong tree bro. I’m an EQ guy. I camped brother raster—twice. I raided endgame. I used to play 7pm-2am 7 days a week, because you had to, so please you are second gen you have no clue what youre talking about

The suggestion is from a wow player lol. I want an advantage. I wanna zerg to win. I want more better stuff for me. Apparently you are in that crowd and of the wow and wowlite generation
I look at this game and say finally everyone is on the same level and the game is apparently weeding out the real players from the i need an advantage to win players

It isn’t about progression it is about people like you who need something extra to win well I don’t need anything extra to win

Dwok Immortalus.2763:

tarnin.1690:

forthegz.5814:

“I put my time getting my ‘Ard Tiarna’ status in DAoC, and I put my time getting my gladiator title for WoW. You know what? Slapping around players because I have Ignore Pain 30, Master of Criticals 700, or my Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me is boring. Only people with serious life fulfillment issues need the sort of emasculation that comes with beating up people who can’t fight back at the same level as you.

I wouldn’t mind Realm Rank titles as a recognition reward, but I’ll vehemently oppose any sort of stat/power modification."

I was pretty surprised to even read this here. What are you even talking about? I said nothing about gear, in-fact gear advantages and things like resilience in WoW are terrible and certainly not good for this game.

But again, I must reiterate the fact that you didn’t seem to grasp or read what I was trying to explain. Everyone that plays would end up getting a reward, they would all have that very small upgrades. There would not be players that have an enormous advantage over anyone else, because the rewards would be balanced, and logical. Not stat upgrades that are going to make someone overpowered.

Also if everyone has them, there would only be a few % difference between players. And seeing as gear is pretty much completely equal in WvW.. it will make things a little bit more fun. But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights. So that numbers don’t play as much of a factor as they do now.

Im almost thinking hes full of crap. WTF is Ignore Pain 30 and Master of Criticals 700? Looks like he went out and found a RR list and some abilities. As a matter of face, IP wasnt over powered at all. No way he has a clue or he would have called out MoC or Pain Spike on a Warlock.

There’s no “Vanquishers Gear of My Resillience is Too High for You to Hit Me” either. Ignore pain was basically a 30-100% heal you could spend realm points on that almost everyone took because it essentially an extra life. It’s also been too long for me to remember what the name of the permanent crit realm ability was. The point was the concept of “needing” and advantage. The OP keeps claiming it’s okay because things like 1%/5%/10% hp are only “small” advantages. The point is, why do you want these trivial gains if they won’t make a difference?

But most importantly it will make it so that SKILL translates into larger fights.

No. The combat economics of scale mean that these hypothetical bonuses would have to be fairly substantial to even make a slight difference in a zerg fight. And how would any accumulated past ‘points’ translate into SKILL in a present fight.

I say go with 1%/2%/3%, keep the numbers somewhere around food level and it would work out fine. Would still be progression but not overpowering progression. A rr10 would have what, 3% extra dmg? big whoop, with the hp pools and downed state thats not much. Hell, gems give more than that. I just want my toon to get better over time even if slightly.

tarnin.1690:

TheKow.7604:

tarnin.1690:

The issue is stealth. When you can go invisible you just camp all day. All you would have to do is hide out and jump and down over and over again (any programmable kb/mouse could do this) and rake in your rewards. The never ending nature of an MMO is what makes it near impossible to code correctly.

Sadly your misunderstanding scouting,let me break it down in MMO format close to another game with stealth classes and such.

Enabling a system much like commando title(but without the shiny blue shield) maybe a smoke/flare you could mark a clear/empty outpost or small group of players think of wars in 1900’s where smoke where to be set off admist a group or base and then mortar teams would fallow up with a shelling. same could be done here some marks a spot then if its attack/taken/killed within X time of mark they get assist/scout credits allowing a scout to mark empty supply camp within say 10 mins a smapp group attacks and takes it the scout/scouts who marked it would then get a small credit in its capping.

If i have to explain how to keep afkers from doing this so be it but this is not the thread for this topic its the thread for a logical analysis system that rewards players(witch it shouldn’t other then title maybe)in WvW

Hmm, i don’t play FPS games as you can tell. Sounds interesting and not sure why it’s never been implemented into an MMO with Open PvP before.

Its used in “A” MMO under NDA currently and is rather nice feature and it is something a lot of MMOs don’t have or think about and would be nice but its also something for another thread or suggestion( I may post it later but been distracted)

Some of those reward abilities you listed are actual abilities. I would be angry if people could just earn some of my warrior abilities by doing more WvW.

Titles, gear and things of that nature I can see, but gaining stat increases is just going to create a top heavy system down the road, no matter how long it takes to get there.

Min maxers and hardcore PvPers will do it.

forthegz.5814:

This ranking system would be VERY LONG with ‘no end in sight’. […] This system would not reward players that simply ‘put more time’ into the game. It would reward players that perform better consistently, win more fights, kill more players per death ect. This system would reward you based on your individual skill and nothing else.

How do you determine the individual skill of a player adequately? Certainly not by simply counting kill/death ratio or win-rate of “battles” (where you have the problem of defining when a “battle” begins and ends). There are SO many other factors that would have to be included, too. For example if only your stats are used then what about supports not doing much damage/killing many people but helping their allies stay alive? Etc.

Besides i don’t see how your proposed system would NOT grant an advantage to players just because they’re playing often. This is a grind-for-stats approach that doesnt really fit GW2, given the fact that you already have to invest a bit of time into exotic gear to really be competitive anyway.

forthegz.5814:

Points are ONLY given for killing players, (siege weapons do not count).

That’s exactly the problem. What do you think will many people do if this system went live? Mindlessly wandering around looking to duel other people/groups to boost their rank instead of focusing on the objectives. Nobody will use siege weapons anymore, because this doesn’t increase their rank while at the same time their allies would get all the credit for it when the shot takes out the enemies before them.

forthegz.5814:

What % of damage you did to the player.

Another factor that goes against GW2 philosophy. Obviously people would go full damage to try to get the most points of the kills. This hurts teamplay a lot and therefore group-oriented WvW combat. It actually introduces a (damage-)competition between allies, which is exactly what GW2 wants to avoid.

forthegz.5814:

This system in my opinion allows average sized, but highly skilled groups to shine.

Such groups are rewarded in structured PVP and should play there, where skill actually matters. You’re trying way too hard to introduce some kind of skill measurement in a “just-for-fun” style of PVP. And after all, such groups do shine in WvW also, because they’re rewarded for taking/holding supply camps as a minority for example. Rewards are objective based in WvW and should stay this way. Your system would encourage mindlessly slaughtering each other in the middle of nowhere, which doesn’t contribute one bit to WvW gameplay. It would also increase the problem of zergs.

TL;DR
No, because Kill/Death Ratio, Damage to Player etc. as statistics for skill introduce competition between allies and discourage teamplay/supporting others while encouraging non-objective-based gameplay/zerging
No, because it gives people with more in-game-time an advantage over others, which is what GW2 has fortunately (!) removed (sPVP) or minimized (scaled up in WvW, exotics not that time-consuming to craft)
No, because even if you could accurately measure the player skill, why would you give a player an advantage in combat who already plays well and defeats almost every other player? To make it even more frustratingly difficult for bad players to get better and defeat players who are better than themselves?

I really miss a real pvp game with a population. I’ll say it again and again, the new age mmorpgs cater to the masses of people who just play to play, as casual. I am a casual gamer, i have a job and a family. I am a hardcore pvp’er, i want you to kill me and steal my stuff, i want to kill you and steal your stuff and then get a hate tell from you, saying how much i live in my moms basement etc.. I WANT that. The problem?

The majority of mass produced mmo’s eg.. wow and GW2 etc.. do not allow that, why? because people would get upset and quit. It’s a small niche i belong to, and sadly i doubt we’ll ever find it again unless we start to support indy developers who crappy graphic engines etc.. like Dominus and Darkfall 2 UW

Papyrus.5276:

TL;DR
No, because Kill/Death Ratio, Damage to Player etc. as statistics for skill introduce competition between allies and discourage teamplay/supporting others while encouraging non-objective-based gameplay/zerging
No, because it gives people with more in-game-time an advantage over others, which is what GW2 has fortunately (!) removed (sPVP) or minimized (scaled up in WvW, exotics not that time-consuming to craft)
No, because even if you could accurately measure the player skill, why would you give a player an advantage in combat who already plays well and defeats almost every other player? To make it even more frustratingly difficult for bad players to get better and defeat players who are better than themselves?

1. Whoever heard of friendly competition between allies? Wow such a bad thing. Also there already is competition between allies. Look at the server plugs.. Also how does it encourage non-objective based gameplay?

2. Those with more time to play than others will always have an advantage over players with less. Experience, money, gear, and badges. What ever happened to rewarding players who invested there time into something? Seems to me a smart company would do so.

3. Why give them an advantage? B/c they earned it, they played harder, they learned more, they recieved more badges, and they earned more money? What is with this socialist thinking that everyone should have an even playing ground? Whatever happened to you are what you make of yourself? Your saying that we should cater to those that do not play as well or invest as much time into a game than those that do otherwise?

I agree if they do have rewards that those rewards need to be achievable by most. I.E. Daoc. Very easy to get high enough RR (realm rank) to be on an even playing ground.

Seige
ExOr -DragonBrand