Guild Wars 2

if you’re going to reply to Papyrus, read the whole post, which I can’t +1 enough

I have read the full post.. Full of speculation. I made my point, which I can’t + 1 enough.

You wants ranks for killing people? Go to SPvP. Those are ranks specifically for killing players on an even playing field. Ya know, where it takes skill to do it. In WvW, you could easily be a 5-man team looking for single players to kill to gain their rank. How is that based on skill? Oh wait, it isn’t. I believe there is already a large achievement centered on how many kills you obtain in WvW.

But making a rewards system based on uneven matchups and such would be a terrible system. All it would encourage is easy kills in order to show supposed “skill”. There is no skill in 3 people killing one person, and thus should not be treated as skill. As I already said, go play SPvP.

Another flaw in this system is that WvW is not about killing enemy players at all. It is about objectives, supply, and points gained from objectives. So why should they endorse a system that completely goes against the WvW design as a whole?

However, a rank system would be awesome. Based on objectives captured, objectives held, supply disrupted, and so forth. You know, ranks for doing stuff that is actually relevant in WvW. The rank system can even be attributed to guilds. Like x amount of players from guild x took 25 objectives last night, held 42 objectives, repaired x amount of walls, escorted x amount of dolyaks, etc.

I am sorry, but Anet will never implement this system as it goes against the very nature of WvW. Your suggestion is flawed because you apparently fail to understand what WvW is actually all about.

I am guessing you never played Dark Age of Camelot. The best WvW game hands down. Which had a ranking system and reward system in it. Daoc is still around with amazing WvW. How is there no skill in WvW, you people touting that baffle me. On the other side of the coin you could be a 5-man team looking for zergs to backdoor or skirimsh. How is that not based on skill? Oh wait, it is………
Your entire post is flawed WvW is about killing other players. Without the players it would be PvE. Taking objectives without killing people is pointless.
You sir apparently fail to understand what true WvW is all about.

If it was about killing players, then player killing would have a say in the points system. As far a I can tell, points are based on gaining the objectives. Winning in WvW, obviously, is about taking and holding objectives for point.

Killing players is, yes, something that can be done. And it ha it’s uses. But in no way does killing 500 enemies mean your server is winning, so why should there be a system that promotes something that is not directly tied to winning in the match.

I am not saying there is no skill, but the essence of WvW is unbalanced fights. And so by making a system that completely rewards those that do not participate in the real goals of WvW (taking objectives) is a flawed system. So yes, there is skill, but you want to show skill based on something that is not pure skill.

A true rank would be better off displaying things that make sense for objective-based fighting, which is what WvW is. Sure, you can factor in kills into a system, but kills should not be in a system of itself.

PvP is Player Versus Player, not player killing player. Attacking a tower is still going against the enemy players, and it actually makes sense within the system of WvW, and yes, you can make a few kills in the taking of the tower. But killing players without doing anything else is detrimental to WvW as a whole. If you want to spend your time killing players, then go to SPvP.

Yerffejy.6538:

You wants ranks for killing people? Go to SPvP. Those are ranks specifically for killing players on an even playing field. Ya know, where it takes skill to do it. In WvW, you could easily be a 5-man team looking for single players to kill to gain their rank. How is that based on skill? Oh wait, it isn’t. I believe there is already a large achievement centered on how many kills you obtain in WvW.

Are you serious? No one cares about TITLES or cosmetic stuff that SPvP provides… leave that in SPvP. … I want my progression to have an effect.. i want it to MATTER. Titles do not matter. Also apparently you have not read ANYTHING i’ve written.. because i CLEARLY explain that you would get points based on % of dmg done to the player… so when a large group kills a smaller group they get WAY LESS. That makes it so you would get the most points for fighting equal numbers. Also.. what rank the player you kill would have an effect.. so a Higher rank player can’t just go farm rank 1 players and get TONS of points.

I titled it Intelligently Designed Realm Ranking for a reason. No one wants people to be rewarding for ganking solo players with a large group.

@Yerffejy
Killing players is something that has to be done inorder to take any objective that is defended. If WvW is working as intended then those said objectives will be defended. (you said taking and HOLDING objectives) No if you slaughter 500 enemies it doesn’t mean you server is winning. What is does mean is that each of those players has to wait for a rez or walk back from spawn to be of any help to the assaulting or defending forces. So in essence in order to effectively contribute to WvW you have to kill other players.. To argue anything otherwise is meaningless.
I agree, killings players without doing anything else in WvW is detrimental to WvW as a whole. But you are speculating that this is what will happen if the reward system was implemented.

The game needs something like this. Not necessarily exactly what the OP posted, but something similar, and balanced out properly by the devs.

Progression and incentive good
Static and unrewarding gameplay bad

No, you can kill players in a siege of a tower. You can. But can you take the tower without killing a single player? Yes, you can. When the major zergs break through the gate, they rush the lord, and kill all the players on the way. But if those players left the tower right before the gate went down, does that stop the tower from being taken? No. The tower is just as much taken as it was with killing players. And likewise, you can hold a tower for hours and days without killing a single player. Does that mean that objective is not gaining points because no players were killed while holding it? no. If you use an arrow cart to scare off potential attackers without killing any, does that mean that you achieved nothing?

Like I said, killing players has it’s uses, but it is not the ultimate goal. The goal is to take and hold objectives for points. That is what wins WvW. And killing players can be useful in stopping defenders from getting in and the likes. I agree with you there.

But implementing a system JUST for killing players is not the answer. There is no basis for it. The killing is not the goal, but the taking and keeping of objectives.

And so I suggest that a rank system be based on ALL thing relevent to winning in WvW, with an emphasis on taking and defending objectives. Along with all the other effective things you can do in WvW. Killing can be a part of that system, but it should not be the sole objective in said system.

“3. Why give them an advantage? B/c they earned it, they played harder, they learned more, they recieved more badges, and they earned more money? What is with this socialist thinking that everyone should have an even playing ground? Whatever happened to you are what you make of yourself? Your saying that we should cater to those that do not play as well or invest as much time into a game than those that do otherwise?” – Seige

You hit the nail on the head here… I don’t know why some people forget that the thing they are developing/playing is a GAME. We do all start on an even playing field for Open World RvR.. its called a RELEASE DATE. I do not want someone that just bought the game today to be able to come into OPEN WORLD pvp and 1v1 me.. thats why SPVP is for. An MMO is about character progression..

I can go play LoL.. and guess what after 15 minutes of a 5v5.. I have BETTER gear and BETTER stats than other players… why? because I am better. An MMO is the same thing only over a much longer timeline than a 5v5 match in LoL.. the game started at the release date. That is what open world is all about and always has been.. its about MY TEAM.. MY CHARACTER all of the work i’ve put into it.. vs whoever.

"

The game needs something like this. Not necessarily exactly what the OP posted, but something similar, and balanced out properly by the devs.

Progression and incentive good
Static and unrewarding gameplay bad" – Gadzooks

I agree.. But I want to express that cosmetic and title progression ALONE is not enough. That stuff really does not matter to skilled players/organized private guilds.

I think using the correct factors.. the developers could make a real progression system that rewards everyone and is completely balanced.

Also Its important to understand this progression system MUST be like insanely long. Thats kind of the point.. it has to be something that you can’t grind out in a week or even a few months. It must be something that everyone that plays open world WvW is slowly working toward over the life of their characters and the life of the game.

forthegz.5814:

“3. Why give them an advantage? B/c they earned it, they played harder, they learned more, they recieved more badges, and they earned more money? What is with this socialist thinking that everyone should have an even playing ground? Whatever happened to you are what you make of yourself? Your saying that we should cater to those that do not play as well or invest as much time into a game than those that do otherwise?” – Seige

You hit the nail on the head here… I don’t know why some people forget that the thing they are developing/playing is a GAME. We do all start on an even playing field for Open World RvR.. its called a RELEASE DATE. I do not want someone that just bought the game today to be able to come into OPEN WORLD pvp and 1v1 me.. thats why SPVP is for. An MMO is about character progression..

So everyone who gets the game after the release date should be penalized. Brilliant strategy for boosting the game’s popularity. You do have an advantage in this game over someone who’s on their day 1, it’s the skills you’ve developed as a player. You do have progression in this game in terms of achievements, armor, and the opportunity to contribute more substantially to the team effort (siege weapons, fort upgrades, commander books). Seeing as WvW is about team effort, that’s a great advantage. If your guild/server is organized, you may have also helped your world climb up the ladder and your character’s contributions have probably been recognized by others.

There’s a lot of rewards in this game and if you spend the time you’ll earn what you deserve. Arguably there should be more titles and such linked to WvW contributions. What you should not have is an artificial advantage of extra skills and stats which would act as a barrier for new or more casual players simply because you feel entitled after playing for longer. If I’m fighting an otherwise even skirmish for a control point or a camp I want my skill to determine whether or not I can aid my world, not some cheap advantage doled out to someone because their realm rank was higher. Because in that situation, whoever wins can truly feel they’ve earned it.

With respect to the whole argument about rewards for killing, Seige you may call it speculation and I may call it forethought. But unless you can bring up legitimate points to counter Papyrus and Yerffej’s arguments you’re the one who’s making groundless predictions about a hypothetical situation.

What said predictions did I make?
Please read my posts again before you claim something… On Yerffejs and Papyrus arguments they predicted what would happen.. The burden of proof is on them not myself my friend.

Seige.4862:

What said predictions did I make?
Please read my posts again before you claim something… On Yerffejs and Papyrus arguments they predicted what would happen.. The burden of proof is on them not myself my friend.

You’re proposing a change (introduce rewards based on WvW kills) and insisting there won’t be unforeseen consequences. They’re suggesting possible consequences and saying that change shouldn’t be made. You’re saying those consequences won’t happen, but all you’re providing is some hand-waving. If you want to see the change realized it’s up to you to address those concerns.

I wish to express my support to Chessrook, Papyrus and Yerffej.

Furthermore, I want to note that I do not like Siege’s way of discussing at all. I think your way of reasoning is quite rude. I believe your posts are detrimental to the cause of the OP. Below an example of a, in my opinion, rude post.

Your entire post is flawed WvW is about killing other players. Without the players it would be PvE. Taking objectives without killing people is pointless.
You sir apparently fail to understand what true WvW is all about.

I admire forthegz’ fanatical way of defending his idea, though I disagree with the idea itself.

Never said their wouldn’t be unforeseen consequences. What I did disagree with is not exploring the possibity of adding progression to WvW based on the arguments made. Do you even comprehend what you read? How do you know for a FACT that adding a reward system would be horrible for the game.. You don’t.. If you look at the past and the game that GW2 emulates you will see that Daoc flourished using such a system.
Lastly my point was made, I addressed the concerns with my previous posts. So once again the burden is not on myself.

P.S. Dear god please don’t say GW2 WvW is emulating WoW pvp.

No grind on WvW please

Do not suggest the same mistake SWTOR did to create a gap between new and old players.

“So everyone who gets the game after the release date should be penalized. Brilliant strategy for boosting the game’s popularity. You do have an advantage in this game over someone who’s on their day 1, it’s the skills you’ve developed as a player.” -Soggy

I could not disagree more. People are not ‘penalized’ for coming in late.. they just should NOT have as powerful of a character in OPEN WORLD (wvw) as someone who HAS played more. I’m starting to think alot of you don’t understand what WvW is…

Open world RvR or PvP or WvW or whatever label it has.. is supposed to be your Character AS IT IS.. against another players character AS IT IS… pretend you don’t LOAD into WvW… it should be an extension of the REAL Open world. That is what makes is awesome, that is why people loved RvR in daoc.. that is why its fun and unique. That is what made an open world fight in WoW so much more exciting. If you WANT absolute 100% balance, If you want to log on your first day and compete with people that have been playing for a month, go play SPvP.

Also you’re not even understanding what I am proposing… EVERYONE that plays WvW even a little bit.. will GET points.. meaning most players in terms of % of players.. will be around the SAME RANK.. only a very small % of VERY skilled players.. will be a little bit (3-5%) more powerful than other people. So no one is getting penalized.. and no one is going to be WAY MORE POWERFUL than another player simply because they have more time to play. That idea is just wrong, and if you think anyone proposed that.. idk what you’ve been reading, but it’s not my thread.

“Arguably there should be more titles and such linked to WvW contributions.” – Soggy

Dude are you serious? Did you not read this thread and just blindly post. There should absolutely NOT be ANYMORE achievements or cosmetics or titles.. those DO NOT MATTER. They do NOT DO ANYTHING. Character progression is not getting a new title every few weeks, its making my character grow throughout the life of the game. It’s called an MMO.

Another important point to make.. this is an MMO… if everyone is just going to be completely equal in a months time (full exotics)… what is the point of even having the exotics in the first place? To create the illusion of progression?… An mmo should be about progression, end of story.

If someone puts more time into the game.. or is BETTER THAN YOU.. and they got a higher Realm Rank by out preforming the average player and winning fights against larger groups due to skill… that is absolutely logical and they should be rewarded MORE than someone who does not. I don’t want someone who has played for two weeks to be equal with me in WvW, thats stupid.

This game has the setup to house both concepts… Open World PvP.. which should have a Realm Rank system for progression of your ACTUAL REAL OPEN WORLD REAL ACTUAL REAL CHARACTER THAT YOU STAND IN LIONS ARCH WITH… and then SPvP for the absolute balance, test your skills 100% equal, jump right in…

sorry for double =/ I don’t know why it did that

Another very important thing to understand.. this is mainly for the developers and not the players..

Great job bringing the concept that DAOC created back into the modern MMO world… I’m certain that now every upcoming MMO is going to have an Open World PVP system similar to DAOC, just like you have. That is a great thing for everyone.

But.. speaking for the community I am a part of.. and I don’t mean the guild.. i mean the general community of people that agree with me.. If you don’t implement a system of actual character progression that preferably is based on skill/time/performance (what an mmo is about)…Guess what..The next MMO (elder scrolls or Titan)… they WILL have a WvW or Open World( daoc style) setting… and THEY WILL have one of 2 things… either hard to get gear to reward better skilled players to use in Open World combat.. OR they will have a Realm Rank system…When that happens you will lose the real MMO population that has flocked to your game EXPECTING character progression.. NOT TITLES and cosmetics.. thats for kids. You will be left with your GW1 Fanboys.. and people that don’t want to have to ‘grind’ for gear. Very small % of the mmo world.Most people don’t realize it.. but constantly getting better gear or better stats or WHATEVER you are ‘grinding’.. its fun.. its fun to progress with your friends and watch other people progress.People who say they hate ‘grinding’ are delusional. Grinding is another word for PLAYING.. and progression is a big part of what makes it fun. Getting points for Realm Rank in WvW is not grinding because I’m getting those points by playing well and having fun… to me grinding is killing the same monster over and over for a piece of gear.. which I never said I wanted.

OP says titles don’t matter, yet GW1 vets have spent the past 4 years working on titles. GW1 PvP vets have been working on their rank titles (which give no benefit, other than status and an awesome bambi/wolf/tiger/phoenix/dragon? emote) since GW1 release. Millions of GW1 vets bought GW2 because we LIKE having combat on an even playing field, where you beat another player because you are better than them (not because you have played longer).

I don’t understand where you are coming from referencing LoL either… there are no advantages one player has over another other than ability… every time you start a game of LoL you start on equal footing. You don’t start at level 10 with 1000 gold after you’ve put 1000 hours into the game. How can you not see how that would discourage people from playing? Would you play LoL if you knew every other player had a statistical advantage? When you lose… it’s over, you start again on even footing. Ranks in WvW would not do that…

GW2 is a different MMO. It’s set up to be different, it does most things differently. But finally, and this for me is the kicker, why does a guy, who is already awesome, need a statistical advantage over less awesome players? The awesome guy will still win 9/10, but it’s because he’s good at the game. From a bad player’s perspective… if I know the guy is better than me, I don’t want to have to put in 1000 hours before I’m able to compete on his level. And what are the chances of beating the awesome guy if I’m bad… probably slim. But if he has 10% more health than I do? I’d stand no chance.

The point is, guilds that are not zergers are frustrated, unless they run all aoe classes and fight on a narrow high bridge, they can’t compete vs the zerg. Back in daoc a 8 people could beat 25 people just because they were better, and of course “Mes” and aoe stun.

I’d like to see ranks based on the total number of kills you’ve done or something. Could be a small monetary reward associated.

But definitely no statistical rewards.

Seige

Also there already is competition between allies. Look at the server plugs.. Also how does it encourage non-objective based gameplay?

How is there already competition between allies? Explain more in detail please. It encourages non-objective based gameplay by rewarding doing things that aren’t necessarily tied to objectives, like for example two zergs fighting in a desert.

Seige

Those with more time to play than others will always have an advantage over players with less. Experience, money, gear, and badges. What ever happened to rewarding players who invested there time into something?

Aren’t you refuting yourself here? First you state there are plenty rewards for people playing often. Then you complain about the lack of rewards for those players. Nothing more to say here.

Seige

Why give them an advantage? B/c they earned it[…]What is with this socialist thinking that everyone should have an even playing ground? Whatever happened to you are what you make of yourself? Your saying that we should cater to those that do not play as well or invest as much time into a game than those that do otherwise?

Socialist thinking? Seriously? Hey, let’s play a game of chess, but because I played so many chess games in my life, I can have two queens… This is not how a good game works. I’m still bad at chess. But with a system like OP suggested I would be winning against much better players… Not really fair. Also, not using this system doesn’t mean the game caters to casuals/newbies. It simply treats players equally.

Seige

I agree if they do have rewards that those rewards need to be achievable by most. I.E. Daoc. Very easy to get high enough RR (realm rank) to be on an even playing ground.

OP states it should take a VERY LONG time. So you’re disagreeing with him there? If it’s easily obtainable anyway, why put the system in there in the first place? Just unnecessarily complicates things.

forthegz

I could not disagree more. People are not ‘penalized’ for coming in late.. they just should NOT have as powerful of a character in OPEN WORLD (wvw) as someone who HAS played more.

It’s not a penalty/disadvantage for someone to come into a game one month after some hardcore player to have to grind himself up over a long period of time before he can even have a fair match with him?

forthegz

EVERYONE that plays WvW even a little bit.. will GET points.. meaning most players in terms of % of players.. will be around the SAME RANK.. only a very small % of VERY skilled players.. will be a little bit (3-5%) more powerful than other people. So no one is getting penalized.. and no one is going to be WAY MORE POWERFUL than another player simply because they have more time to play.

So almost anybody will be about the same rank anyway? And the effect is minimal anyway? Then just get rid of the whole system because then it doesn’t make a difference in PVP anyway and would only complicate things and waste development time. Also, again you’re just assuming that your system rewards the “skilled players”, which as i pointed out earlier won’t be the case with your proposed indicators for skill (k/d ratio, etc.)

forthegz

Another important point to make.. this is an MMO… if everyone is just going to be completely equal in a months time (full exotics)… what is the point of even having the exotics in the first place? To create the illusion of progression?… An mmo should be about progression, end of story.

Every other MMO has an illusion of progession because the encounters get stronger as the equip level rises, so you’re not really getting stronger in relation to your current raid situation anyway. Also, STOP being so entitled by saying you are the one to define what an MMORPG has to be about. If that’s what you like, fine, go play WoW or 99,9% of current MMORPGs. But NOT GW2! It’s built on the core principle of having a gear plateau, you can’t simply change that. And it’s good to have a game without the gear treadmill as an alternative to all the other MMORPGs out there.

forthegz

If someone puts more time into the game.. or is BETTER THAN YOU.. and they got a higher Realm Rank by out preforming the average player and winning fights against larger groups due to skill… that is absolutely logical and they should be rewarded MORE than someone who does not.

Don’t you see the reward that’s in the game already for these people? You even say it yourself! Winning itself is a reward, holding more points, winning the WvW Matchup, gaining more bonus percentages, gaining more xp/karma/gold etc….

forthegz

When that happens you will lose the real MMO population that has flocked to your game EXPECTING character progression.. NOT TITLES and cosmetics.. thats for kids. You will be left with your GW1 Fanboys.. and people that don’t want to have to ‘grind’ for gear. Very small % of the mmo world.Most people don’t realize it.. but constantly getting better gear or better stats or WHATEVER you are ‘grinding’.. its fun..

This shows GW2 is not the right game for you. First, all players buying GW2 EXPECTING this kind of progession should really have known better, as it was advertised so long and intensively that GW2 has a no-grind philosophy and will not contain the things you want. Then you’re just assuming that only few people don’t want to grind for gear without backing that up whatsoever. If that would be the case, why are so many people playing the game? It would be a big fail if everyone wanted gear grind. Getting better gear IS fun, but it has many negative consequences and while you find it fun, others dont really miss it here in GW2. You’re playing the wrong game and trying to force your view of what an MMORPG has to be onto GW2 although it clashes with its CORE principles/design philosophies.

@forthegz
I disagree that every MMO needs stats progression. As long as I’m having fun in the game, I’ll continue playing. The moment it stops being fun, I’ll drop it, and it doesn’t matter if I’m at 98% in doing something that has taken me the past 2 months to do. I don’t have any statistics about how rare a player like me that is not affected by those carrots, though. But I don’t think there’s anything we can do to convince each other about this point, so lets just agree to disagree (on another note, I also don’t care about cosmetic stuff or titles).

Rather, you say the advantage can be small. How small is acceptable to you? As long as you have carrot that you can work towards, it doesn’t matter how small that is? In that case, how about after playing extremely well for 1 year (say), you gain 0.1% stat advantage over a newly created character?

this sounds so like warhammer, INCOMING 1 RP KILLS!

@Papyrus
“It’s not a penalty/disadvantage for someone to come into a game one month after some hardcore player to have to grind himself up over a long period of time before he can even have a fair match with him?” – Papyrus

I’m not saying its NOT a disadvantage.. I’m saying that the disadvantage exists now and SHOULD exist. They already boost everyone to max level which makes perfect sense.. but if someone did not spend the time to figure out how to get the best gear or whatever the case may be.. than no they should not have an equally strong character in WvW. That is for SPvP. Open world RvR is about your actual character and what you’ve put into it.

“So almost anybody will be about the same rank anyway? And the effect is minimal anyway? Then just get rid of the whole system because then it doesn’t make a difference in PVP anyway and would only complicate things and waste development time. Also, again you’re just assuming that your system rewards the “skilled players”, which as i pointed out earlier won’t be the case with your proposed indicators for skill (k/d ratio, etc.)” -Papyrus

The point of putting a system like this in.. is for fun obviously. Something to work toward… when you have full exotics and you’re max level.. you want to be DONE? From a business perspective and a fun player perspective.. progression is fun and progression keeps people playing.. and it WILL keep people MORE interested than without it, whether you like it or not.

Also it WOULD ABSOLUTELY reward more skilled players.. and K/D ratio has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. It works using % of dmg you did to that player per kill and that players Realm Rank. So if 12 players kill 1.. those points are split up 12 ways.. But if 5 players kill 12, they get more points per kill. So when zergs kill small groups they get less.. but when a smaller group kites and out plays the zerg they get more. It’s actually very simple and its proven. Obviously if a higher Realm Rank kills a lower one.. they get less points.. but if a new player kills a higher rank they get more points.

“And it’s good to have a game without the gear treadmill as an alternative to all the other MMORPGs out there.” – Papyrus

Dude? Did you not read the thread? I said pretty clearly that I would NOT want a huge difference in gear stats like there are in other games. Fairly equal gear forces things to be pretty balanced.. It is more boring, but its more balanced. The system I am talking about would not give better gear as rewards… and the stat increases are not even close to the differences a ‘gear treadmill’ creates.

“Don’t you see the reward that’s in the game already for these people? You even say it yourself! Winning itself is a reward, holding more points, winning the WvW Matchup, gaining more bonus percentages, gaining more xp/karma/gold etc….” – Papyrus

Are you serious? Winning is fun and I certainly play to win. I shouldn’t feel like I’m DONE with my character once I hit 80 with full exotics..

“Then you’re just assuming that only few people don’t want to grind for gear without backing that up whatsoever. If that would be the case, why are so many people playing the game? It would be a big fail if everyone wanted gear grind. Getting better gear IS fun, but it has many negative consequences and while you find it fun,” – Papyrus

Why do you keep talking about gear? I never said gear would be a reward or should be involved more so.. I completely agree that better gear rewards TIME over skill.. and causes a large power gap.

Oh yeah… and EVERYONE is playing GW2.. not because it dosn’t have a gear grind or whatever you think… they are playing it because it’s a great game. It has a great engine, it was done very well.. it has new concepts like evades and weapon skills.. and MOST importantly.. the real reason so many people like it… It BROUGHT BACK a concept that DAOC created.. WvW or RvR… or really.. Server vs Server or SvS. That open world taking keeps and fighting for your Realm or Server in this case.. is something that I’m surprised past MMO’s completely missed. That concept alone will bring in players because its so unique and fun.. and it really is the core of a good MMO.

@ Salamol

“OP says titles don’t matter, yet GW1 vets have spent the past 4 years working on titles. GW1 PvP vets have been working on their rank titles (which give no benefit, other than status and an awesome bambi/wolf/tiger/phoenix/dragon? emote) since GW1 release. Millions of GW1 vets bought GW2 because we LIKE having combat on an even playing field, where you beat another player because you are better than them (not because you have played longer” – Salamol

Frankly I don’t care what ‘GW1’ vets did. I played a little bit of GW1 myself, thought it was great.. I’m not stepping on any ‘GW1 Vets’ toes.. they have SPvP which I think SHOULD absolutely be balanced and equal with NO Realm Rank system. If they want to spend their time getting titles GREAT! But I don’t and open world pvp is not about an equal playing field.

This is a great time to explain WHY its not an equal playing field..

1. This game does pretty much give you exotics.. but some players are bad and STILL can’t get them. There is some unbalance.. I like it.

2. (MOST IMPORTANT) .. So have you guys heard of this ORB OF POWER thing?.. well that was Anet’s way of implementing a REALM RANK system.. instead of giving those stats over time to players that earn it.. they just give it to the WHOLE SERVER.. based on what normally 1 group does.. most likely in the middle of the night..

Completely illogical. So you complain at me for wanting something that would reward players OVER TIME with similar stats as the Orb of power because they EARNED it… yet you think it is fine for EVERYONE on ONE SERVER to have a HUGE BUFF.. based on something they could of not even participated in getting?.. talk about unbalance, that just about takes the cake..

You want to talk about UNBALANCE do you? When 1 server has 3 orbs of power.. the other servers are PROBABLY GOING TO LOSE most of the fights against them.. even down to the little small group battles… why? BECAUSE the ORB OF POWER is like making everyone on the server a high Realm Rank while the other servers are all Realm Rank 1… So no one noticed that?

Case closed.. you already have a Realm Rank system and it’s worse than the one that you’ve been complaining about on this thread.. its not intelligently designed. It rewards an entire server with a buff thats about equal to what I would think a high Realm Rank should have after spending an enormous amount of time (years) and having to actually be good to acquire it.

I just read a dev posting in the SPVP forum that if you want “progression” or not be on even grounds, you should play WvW instead of spvp.. they want spvp to be completely even.

So here’s hoping that arenanet institutes a gw2 “WVW” system that not only is similar to the OP’s but even makes it a bigger gap between players so that smart good players of 5-10 people can beat 20-30 people.

Maybe i am the only one sick of zerging :/ or getting “zerrged” heh

Instead of skill or stat advantages, how bout economic ones in game?…like rank x discounts your repair bill by rank y, or your siege vendors charge x% less per rank, or PvE travel costs are reduced by x%. I disagree with stat/armor/skill upgrades at end game just because some people have more time to play than others.

I did the vanilla WoW GM grind, and gaining almost 2 million honor a week and having to maintain pace and rank for x weeks to receive special stuff that was eventually given away via an expansion patch killed it for me, and I hope that never happens here, as I learned that lesson the hard way.

The rewards of being better should not always go to those who have more time and less skill vs. those who have less time and more skill. It invites more opportunists, more zerging, and inhibits the smaller guilds from being successful even more, as numbers almost always win, except in fortified and well defended areas.

I like this game because it’s W3 does involve some skill, timing, attention to detail about your opponents strategies and about the battlefield conditions, and its more like playing chess as one of the pieces than WoW ever was since the old vanillaTarren Mill days.

Also, if any of this was ever implemented in any way, in any form, (monetary, skill, stat, crafting, etc.) I’d suggest that anyone who transfers servers get these advantages reset, so that the decision to transfer will be a conscious one, not one made on a whim or to gain a tactical advantage by spying on another server.

“I like this game because it’s W3 does involve some skill, timing, attention to detail about your opponents strategies and about the battlefield conditions, and its more like playing chess as one of the pieces than WoW ever was since the old vanillaTarren Mill days.” -Sean

Haha, yes. Tarren Mill days were my glory days for WoW…

I agree that whatever kind of progression system is put in place.. it really should not be focused on grinding… I don’t think it is possible for there to be a system that stops ‘time played’ from becoming a factor.. but I do think with a Realm Rank system that rewards you based on % of damage you do per kill… thats where you would get MOST of your points.. then you would get WAY less points, but still points for yaks,keeps,camps and the lot… That will atleast make it so if you play all day and all night.. but you roll with the zerg the whole time you.. someone that plays less but has a better group and ends up killing more people, they would get more… i just like the idea of rewarding more points to players that kill more players in WvW based on % of damage done. Really tones down the numbers factor.

The way this game will probably turn out.. there are going to be guilds that ZERG pretty much constantly.. they just don’t have or run small groups… then there will groups of 8-15 players that are much more skilled and organized. Those groups are the ones that are going to turn the tables in important fights. Kite/wipe zergs, flank about retaking things..

so a % of dmg done per kill.. rewards those groups a bit more than zergs and solo kids.

this is actually a really good system, it rewards you for fighting for your server and there you are stronger to make your server stronger.

If you want a fair fight go do SPVP.

A reward system like this is no different than advantages that are ALREADY there like player levels and gear this just gives you something thing to improve on for years and keep you going.

The coding involved to make a group split some type of point system is the problem. It seems they can only code a world wide system. Even loot is individualiZEd