Rather than have completely immune damage periods, what if these damage eliminators instead reduced incoming damage substantially for their duration. Invulnerability and Resistance would say reduce their specific damage types by 75%. To compensate for this reduction, those skills would run a bit longer or come up a bit faster.
This would at least allow some counter play rather than an attacker just sitting on their hands.
Invuln is fine as is because it isn’t a boon that can be extended or shared. The cooldown for each one is already appropriate to how long they last.
Resistance definitely needs to be changed. 75% damage reduction would be a good place to start but in the future I’d look into bringing it down to 66 or even 50% and changing some of the skills that grant resistance to cleanses instead.
But yeah, for a starting place 75% is good because it solves the most important problem which is resistance makes you completely immune to soft cc.
Resistance just needs to either stop all damage from condis, or stop all other effects (ie cripple, slow, immobilize, healing potential reduction from poison, weakness effects). Its only so strong because it allows someone to ignore not only the damage but also all of the CC effects as well.
Resistance just needs to either stop all damage from condis, or stop all other effects (ie cripple, slow, immobilize, healing potential reduction from poison, weakness effects). Its only so strong because it allows someone to ignore not only the damage but also all of the CC effects as well.
You mean how invuln allows the stopping of all direct damage and cc effects like daze, stun, stone, knock down knock back, launch?
Resistance just needs to either stop all damage from condis, or stop all other effects (ie cripple, slow, immobilize, healing potential reduction from poison, weakness effects). Its only so strong because it allows someone to ignore not only the damage but also all of the CC effects as well.
You mean how invuln allows the stopping of all direct damage and cc effects like daze, stun, stone, knock down knock back, launch?
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….
Resistance just needs to either stop all damage from condis, or stop all other effects (ie cripple, slow, immobilize, healing potential reduction from poison, weakness effects). Its only so strong because it allows someone to ignore not only the damage but also all of the CC effects as well.
You mean how invuln allows the stopping of all direct damage and cc effects like daze, stun, stone, knock down knock back, launch?
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….
So whenever I try to stun someone that’s a invulnerable with Basivenom, use grab well or use Dragons maw those abilities stop them? No they don’t it pops and says Invuln…. Yet soft cc still affects them if applied before the invuln.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….
… what?! Invoulnerability stops all direct cc (ie knockbacks, pulls, fear etc). You can look it up in the wiki if you want.
Resistance just needs to either stop all damage from condis, or stop all other effects (ie cripple, slow, immobilize, healing potential reduction from poison, weakness effects). Its only so strong because it allows someone to ignore not only the damage but also all of the CC effects as well.
You mean how invuln allows the stopping of all direct damage and cc effects like daze, stun, stone, knock down knock back, launch?
Except that the access to Invuln is much, much less than the access to resistance atm. If access to resistance was on the same level as invuln then it would be fine. But its abundant everywhere, especially in WvW
In a full minute Warriors currently have the potential of 33% up time on no damage taken between Invuln/Block. Often 100% up time on 50% or more direct dmg reduction. Add on 50% or more on Resistance. There is this tiny, tiny window to actually land something that sticks on defensive sustain builds.
Scrapper isn’t much better with Invuln, Stealth, Block, Invuln, Block, Stealth, repeat. Then there are the others that are nearly as bad.
I don’t want to remove these as player options but few if any abilities in WvW should completely shut down opponents.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
In a full minute Warriors currently have the potential of 33% up time on no damage taken between Invuln/Block. Often 100% up time on 50% or more direct dmg reduction. Add on 50% or more on Resistance. There is this tiny, tiny window to actually land something that sticks on defensive sustain builds.
Scrapper isn’t much better with Invuln, Stealth, Block, Invuln, Block, Stealth, repeat. Then there are the others that are nearly as bad.
A warrior that is full kitten survival isn’t going do much dmg. A group with 50+ sec of quickness will.
A warrior that is full kitten survival isn’t going do much dmg. A group with 50+ sec of quickness will.
They don’t have to run full survival. My Boon Duration Stance Warrior has all that defensive sustain and often has five digit Eviscerates. You don’t want to be anywhere near it once the Might engine kicks in.
My Warrior running full tilt with boons often has near 3500 power, 70% crit chance and 1.8 crit magnitude. In addition to the massive Quickness and Resistance up time along with perma Protection, Regen, Swiftness. That is running solo… it gets WAY better near other boon buff builds.
A warrior that is full kitten survival isn’t going do much dmg. A group with 50+ sec of quickness will.
They don’t have to run full survival. My Boon Duration Stance Warrior has all that defensive sustain and often has five digit Eviscerates. You don’t want to be anywhere near it once the Might engine kicks in.
My Warrior running full tilt with boons often has near 3500 power, 70% crit chance and 1.8 crit magnitude. In addition to the massive Quickness and Resistance up time along with perma Protection, Regen, Swiftness. That is running solo… it gets WAY better near other boon buff builds.
Ah huh, whatever puts you to sleep. Real issue is perma quickness, not invuln.
As I tend to play a slow casting ele, my biggest bug bear is invuln followed by block when it takes soooo long for one auto attack of mine to even cast.
It makes players stupidly OP as they can run into middle of an entire zerg, dance around, and then escape and have zero damage taken.
Invuln needs a cap either as a percentage of damage absorbed, or a total absorbed, or shorter duration. Same with block.
There are so many problems in wvw combat though, I doubt they will ever fix them as they don’t directly affect the pve or more importantly spvp so much.
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….… what?! Invoulnerability stops all direct cc (ie knockbacks, pulls, fear etc). You can look it up in the wiki if you want.
Wtf are you talking about? SoS, and endure pain sure as hell don’t. If you are talking about mist form or elixer S, the trade off is they can’t do damage or contest anything when they are using it. Distortion is just a long evade so that doesn’t really count.
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….… what?! Invoulnerability stops all direct cc (ie knockbacks, pulls, fear etc). You can look it up in the wiki if you want.
Wtf are you talking about? SoS, and endure pain sure as hell don’t. If you are talking about mist form or elixer S, the trade off is they can’t do damage or contest anything when they are using it. Distortion is just a long evade so that doesn’t really count.
Those aren’t Invulnerabilities for one learn the skills, those only stop physical damage.
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….… what?! Invoulnerability stops all direct cc (ie knockbacks, pulls, fear etc). You can look it up in the wiki if you want.
Wtf are you talking about? SoS, and endure pain sure as hell don’t. If you are talking about mist form or elixer S, the trade off is they can’t do damage or contest anything when they are using it. Distortion is just a long evade so that doesn’t really count.
Those aren’t Invulnerabilities for one learn the skills, those only stop physical damage.
You’re saying mistform isn’t invuln? Pretty sure that’s right in the description.
If you want to make resistance work the same way, where it is super short, not a boon, and they can’t do any damage while using it I’d be fine with that but I’m sure you’ll kitten a lot of people off.
……..what?
Invuln only stops direct damage, it does nothing against cc.
You need stability to stop the rest of that, but thanks for contributing…….… what?! Invoulnerability stops all direct cc (ie knockbacks, pulls, fear etc). You can look it up in the wiki if you want.
Wtf are you talking about? SoS, and endure pain sure as hell don’t. If you are talking about mist form or elixer S, the trade off is they can’t do damage or contest anything when they are using it. Distortion is just a long evade so that doesn’t really count.
Those aren’t Invulnerabilities for one learn the skills, those only stop physical damage.
You’re saying mistform isn’t invuln? Pretty sure that’s right in the description.
If you want to make resistance work the same way, where it is super short, not a boon, and they can’t do any damage while using it I’d be fine with that but I’m sure you’ll kitten a lot of people off.
Was referring to the endure pain and Signet of Stone comment, but all of the other invulns, which are most form, obsidian flesh (allows you to still attack, and do everything else), distortion (which allows you to attack and do everything else as well it can be shared), elixir s, and renewed focus are all real invulns
My Warrior running full tilt with boons often has near 3500 power, 70% crit chance and 1.8 crit magnitude. In addition to the massive Quickness and Resistance up time along with perma Protection, Regen, Swiftness. That is running solo… it gets WAY better near other boon buff builds.
These stats sound too weird to come from you alone that I honestly find hard to belive it. Care to share it?
These stats sound too weird to come from you alone that I honestly find hard to belive it. Care to share it?
The stats are running full Might and Bloodlust stacks (extra 1k power) along with Fury (extra 20% crit). The base stats are 2500 power and 50% crit chance. Armor is just over 3k and HP is somewhere north of 22k with over 100% boon duration using Commanders/Concentration. The build runs Dmg Reduction/Boon Duration food, Durability runes, several Stances and healing sigil.
It is actually a very straight forward build that gens might with the Greatsword and other sources, then switches to Axe/Shield for defense and big hits. Because of the long boon duration, Sigil of Strength, Signet of Rage, Versatile Power, Shield Master and Forceful Greatsword’s multiple hits (I am probably missing one or two more sources) getting to full might stacks is pretty easy.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
Ah huh, whatever puts you to sleep. Real issue is perma quickness, not invuln.
Yes because we live in a binary existence in the game and we can only have one “problem” at a time.
I can fight Quickness the entire time, we have no counter play to shut down abilities. Invuln and Resist as they are today wouldn’t be a huge problem if players had to trade off HP, Armor, etc to get them. These skills as they are really shouldn’t be attached to builds with heavy armor, large HP pools, etc.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
Was referring to the endure pain and Signet of Stone comment, but all of the other invulns, which are most form, obsidian flesh (allows you to still attack, and do everything else), distortion (which allows you to attack and do everything else as well it can be shared), elixir s, and renewed focus are all real invulns
Elixir S and Renewed Focus also don’t allow you to do anything other than move for the duration. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone users can still be affected by conditions and CC. Any of the Invulnerable effects don’t make you invulnerable to conditons that are already applied (Distortion also do not stun break you).
Was referring to the endure pain and Signet of Stone comment, but all of the other invulns, which are most form, obsidian flesh (allows you to still attack, and do everything else), distortion (which allows you to attack and do everything else as well it can be shared), elixir s, and renewed focus are all real invulns
Elixir S and Renewed Focus also don’t allow you to do anything other than move for the duration. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone users can still be affected by conditions and CC. Any of the Invulnerable effects don’t make you invulnerable to conditons that are already applied (Distortion also do not stun break you).
Yes the elixir s doesnt allow you to do anything except for stomp, renewed focus doesn’t allow you to do anything but it is still powerful in that it gets you through Hard Cc, and again SoS and EP are not Invulnerabilities so of course cc affects them. I was referring to the fact that Jim Hunter was saying that invulns don’t stop Hard Cc which is a lie, yes distortions doesn’t break a stun but once it’s up you can do anything in it and can share it with 4 other players for up to 5 seconds, and yes condies still affect you but with Resistance direct damage still affects the players affected by it, and Resistance can be corrupted.
Invuln is to direct damage and cc as Resistance is to Condie damage and Soft cc.
but once it’s up you can do anything in it and can share it with 4 other players for up to 5 seconds
Uh, no. It can be shared for 1 second, and that share has a 5 second internal cooldown. Invuln is nowhere near op, I’d recommend you stop trying to frame it as such because it looks foolish and diminishes your points against resistance.
I’d love to see a reduction of invuln and a reduction of Condi cheese which would lead to less reason to take resistance, win win.
but once it’s up you can do anything in it and can share it with 4 other players for up to 5 seconds
Uh, no. It can be shared for 1 second, and that share has a 5 second internal cooldown. Invuln is nowhere near op, I’d recommend you stop trying to frame it as such because it looks foolish and diminishes your points against resistance.
I haven’t played my Mesmer in a while forgot about the 1 sec for the share. And I am not against Resistance, I like it since now there is more counter play to the condie cancer in game.
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