Guild Wars 2

Fade.9124:

lmao bg is looking into the fine print and terms and conditions. What’s next BG, a class action lawsuit for punitive damages and such? lmao….ohhh you guyyyyys.

Gem refunds for all of them paid transfers

Drakh.3128:

RoChan.1926:

Rawr.5930:

Coverage and population wins matchups, can i now label “blackouts” and “stacking” a breach of code too? [..]

I would argue that those are more of a match manipulation then 2v1 is
.

TC got 10+ guilds from SOR, JQ got 2 guilds just from BG plus the others. BG got 2. So which servers are really “stacking”? Coverage in T1 is very even, with JQ being the only of the 3 servers with full 24 hour coverage. Coverage and has nothing to do with the current dynamics in T1.

LOL what JQ does NOT have 24 hour coverage. Have you seen EU and early NA on JQ lmao.

As for transfers it depends on how big those guilds are. JQ can be like we got 5 guilds that field 10-15 each day versus say BG getting 2 guilds fielding an entire map per day.

What matters isn’t # of guilds but # of players a transferred guild fields per day during what coverage zone.

It’s OK blackgate players, if you want 500 tickets you can always transfer to Seafarer’s Rest, Henge of Denravi, Gandara, Gates of Madness, or your german friends on Dzagonur.

style.6173:

@OP: I get it. You were promised an easy mode ride to a win when the server bought you.

I had not intended to bring up server names at all in this thread because they really are not relevant — who does what to whom changes on a daily or weekly basis. However, since there seem to be a number of people, like yourself, behaving in a dismissive fashion I will put some details on the record so that future posters have fewer things to become needlessly worked up over.

I’m from Jade Quarry. I’ve been WvW-ing there for over a year and a half. You can verify this for yourself in the usual way.

What that means is that:

1. I’m not from Blackgate
2. My server is currently part of the 2 in the 2v1 against Blackgate
3. I have experienced the 2v1 from both sides in recent history

Also for the record, I have little interest in who did what to whom or when they did it or how much they paid for it. I really don’t.

What prompted my original post is an event that occurred earlier today: ‘the 2’ managed to get ‘the 1’ to 0 (zero) PPT.

Was this a cause of celebration on our server?

Well, on EB a couple of people pointed it out, and said that they had screen captured the scoreboard for <whatever reason>. But there weren’t many of those… perhaps two or three in each of /m and TeamSpeak. About five people altogether.

The entire map was a sea of blue and red and no green was to be seen… and yet the vast majority of players did not seem to care. Or even if they did care they did not care enough to bother expressing it — not even with emotes.

The majority of players (certainly the majority of forum posters) seem to fixate on what 2v1 does to ‘the 1’… but I don’t see too many postings about what it does to the bulk of the players who make up ‘the 2’. So to fill that void, let me tell you what I saw and heard via /w /s /p /m /t and TeamSpeak: boredom.

When your map is half red and half blue, and the self-appointed ‘leaders’ of your server have cut a deal not to attack each other, and their lackeys (for want of a better word) jump down the throats of everyone who does not religiously tow the line, then there is nothing to do.

Your zerg spends virtually all of its time spawn camping ‘the 1’ and, as a result, only the odd roamer makes it past to kill a few yaks and flip the odd supply camp — which are all flipped back by friendly roamers and defenders the moment RI fades on the supervisor.

Unless you get your kicks from spawn-camping in a swamp, there are no thrills, there is no excitement — there is no fun. The fun fades away… and it fades quickly.

A successfully implemented 2v1 campaign results in a large number of players on ‘the 2’ side getting bored and a large number of players on ‘the 1’ side getting demoralised. It is, in effect, a lose-lose strategy.

How many players (especially consider new players) will want to play WvW when, regardless of whether they win or lose, they are not going to have fun anymore? Who, seriously, will spawn camp for weeks or even months on end if this ‘winning strategy’ becomes the default strategy used in tournament matches? What will it do to the long-term health of the WvW format? I fear the effect will be bad — very bad.

I don’t want WvW to die a slow, horrible death. I don’t want new players to be turned off by spawn-camping ‘veterans’ who gloat about how bad they are making ‘the 1’ feel for real (or imagined) events in the past.

Are 50 extra tickets a season really worth doing that much damage to the WvW format? What will those tickets be worth if the WvW population collapses? Is ‘win at all costs’ really justified?

I, personally, don’t think so.

I believe that Rule 22 of the Rules of Conduct exists to encourage ‘sportsmanlike conduct’ and to minimise meta-gaming. I believe that coming in first at the end of the season means nothing if you had to rig matches along the way to get there. I believe that collusion and rigging matches is a lose-lose strategy for the majority of players and will do permanent harm to the WvW format.

I started this thread to see if ANet believes the same thing as I do… or as others do. Sometimes a person asking a simple question is just looking for a simple answer.

You will get banned for buying items from a vendor at low price.
But rigging a tourney is a cool gameplay.

sazaw.1347:

Umm actually we have been winning way before BG comes to T1. We have seen servers come up and go down. Personally I think winning for a long time is bad for us. I don’t want that to happen. It attracts fair whether. Because I know winning in WvW means more number and coverage only.
I’m not on BG but c’mon we’ve been fighting BG long time of course we know your number and coverage.

ps: i’m not ex-sor. I’m on JQ since 3 days headstart.

Coverage and numbers does mean who wins, but stating false facts that one server is a “megaserver” while the other T1’s aren’t is just acting silly and breeding idiocy. BG/JQ/TC all have queues, they all have their stronger timezones. They all play the game they want to. JQ’s SEA has been dominant for months if not the better part of a year, yet they still recruited for SEA by buying a good portion of MERC (to cripple BG for season 1, thus causing them to lose 2 weeks before seasons, leading both JQ and SoR to think BG was “dead”) and received transfers from SoR after their implosion. I think it was stated one of the guilds that went from SoR to JQ went in order to help “train” them. As if the SEA Horde needed training in a timezone they already dominated. THAT is a prime example of overstacking. That’s bringing over more bodies to already increase a coverage you are superior in.

A good portion of SoR went to TC, which at the time was considered a T1.5 server, effectively increasing their numbers greatly in NA and Oceanic. While all of this was happening, BG actually lost guilds. Some retired, some got bored of the game, etc. If you know BG’s coverage, what exactly are our numbers then? Because at the end of season 1 Blackgate lost roughly 4-5 core guilds: Coin (EU), WM, ZDs, (SEA) Exiled MERC (OCX+SEA) etc. Before the start of season 2, BG managed to bring over NV (OCX) and SUPR (SEA).

The people complaining that BG overstacked for Season 1 are moronic if you base it off of the very first week, before servers became demoralized with the all powerful ZDs joining the fray (despite BG losing a greater amount of people to JQ + lower tiers)

The first competitive week, fighting tooth and nail, ended with a roughly 20k difference between 3rd and 1st.

Jade Quarry – 242 187
Sanctum of Rall – 256 661
Blackgate – 266 799

That week was the absolute BEST in terms of coverage and fights up until the following reset for week 2. Until I think Wednesday Oct 23 there was only a sub 1,000 lead between 1st and 2nd and maybe 8-10k from 3rd to 1st. THAT is how Anet intended Seasons to be. Competitive until the very last day. The map politics were insane and the 2v1’s transfered daily based on who was winning and which timezones were strongest. THAT is how the game was intended to be played. Literally every timezone played off their strengths and weaknesses, hitting objectives from the servers they were just siding with only a few hours before in order to halt the obvious strengths of the opposing servers.

Literally anyone could have placed anywhere that first week, which was why it was so fun to be a part of.

Fast forward to now and you see how incredibly boring seasons has become due to the belief of the minority (yes, I think the vast majority of JQ and TC aren’t on board with the whole “win-trade to ensure #bgtears”). Anet’s intention was to have servers fighting for first from the get-go and for it to be fun and engaging, with backstabbing and countless fighting surging until the later part of the week.

The lower-tier servers will obviously play how they want to play, be it for fights or GvG’s, which is absolutely fine as well.

So in question, has BG stacked itself? Honestly, I don’t think so. If you look at it on paper, BG lost more guilds than they received especially when compared to JQ and “maybe” TC. Now, are BG’s numbers inflated due to when their PvE/PvX population join wvw? Most definitely. The same however applies to both JQ (who I know has a PvE population equal or perhaps even greater than BG) and TC respectively.

I’m not aware of any guilds JQ or TC has lost, but I know of the one’s they’ve gained. It isn’t BG’s fault JQ decided not to show up for the weekdays of week 1 for S2 and you can’t blame BG for seeing an opportunity and pressing any advantage they’re given, because in the end who doesn’t enjoy winning?

Hush, little blackgate, don’t you cry,
Mama’s gonna buy you a guild big size.

Can’t believe this thread is still alive.

ANet has already stated that 2v1 in WvW is expected.

On top of that, do you notice what is the virtually only matchup that is being discussed this season, even to the point where folks are ignoring forum rules to post about it?

Bottom line, the conduct you’re looking down on is the one thing that has made this tournament interesting at all.

tim.8127:

To settle this matter for once and for all, and to not start a ‘who did what to whom’ argument, I was hoping ANet could officially just answer the following question:

Rule 22 of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct states:

While participating in Player-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder.

Given that WvW is clearly PvP gameplay, is the current and widespread practice of “2v1” (i.e. collusion between two teams to the detriment of a third and, it follows, manipulation of the outcome of the match) a violation of the Rules of Conduct?

That’s it. A simple question with hopefully a very simple, one word, answer.

Thank you.

The BG tears are flowing like a river.

Even if it was against the Rules of Conduct, which it most certainly is not, since its a 3 way fight, what could they do? Ban everyone on all those servers? That’d be silly.

2v1’s aren’t fair. But WvW isn’t meant to be fair, at all. Player numbers aren’t preset, stat equality doesn’t exist, etc. The tourney system essentially screwed over JQ and TC, so they’re doing all they can to maximize their rewards. So, WHY does JQ and TC continue to 2v1 BG? Well, IT WORKS. Look at when, in week 1, JQ was constantly 2v1’ed (http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/29/161 ). You can tell they pushed throughout the entire match, kept pushing. TC does the same when we get 2v1’ed. We constantly push and do everything we can to hold our points. BG appears, when looking at the scores and from what I’ve experienced (I havent been in EB yet mind you this match), to have a lot of players effectively give up so only a few of the guilds are remaining to really push. That being said, it can be really boring when the one server stops their push and just throws their hands in the air.

tim.8127:

… What will it do to the long-term health of the WvW format? I fear the effect will be bad — very bad.

I don’t want WvW to die a slow, horrible death. I don’t want new players to be turned off by spawn-camping ‘veterans’ who gloat about how bad they are making ‘the 1’ feel for real (or imagined) events in the past.

Are 50 extra tickets a season really worth doing that much damage to the WvW format? What will those tickets be worth if the WvW population collapses? …

I don’t think the double team during this tournament will permanently damage WvW. It spoiled this tournament for the top servers but we won’t forget we ruined our own game. Nobody is going to put up with this stuff for months on end.

Green attacks Blue’s keep, Blue defends.

Red attacks Blue → OMG 2v1!

Red attacks Green → OMG helping Blue, 2v1!

Unless everyone agrees to karma-train in a circle (EoTM), WvW is always a 2v1.

You either fight with honor ….or you don’t. There is no in-between….you can troll post after post until they get locked or removed but the fact of the matter remains….You either have Honor….Or you don’t
Which is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

Liu Bei joined forces with Sun Quan to fight against the stronger Cao Cao in romance of the three kingdoms.

Kudos to TC and JQ for making Season 2 in NA so interesting ! First class entertainment.

Robin Hood.3850:

tim.8127:

To settle this matter for once and for all, and to not start a ‘who did what to whom’ argument, I was hoping ANet could officially just answer the following question:

Rule 22 of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct states:

While participating in Player-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder.

Given that WvW is clearly PvP gameplay, is the current and widespread practice of “2v1” (i.e. collusion between two teams to the detriment of a third and, it follows, manipulation of the outcome of the match) a violation of the Rules of Conduct?

That’s it. A simple question with hopefully a very simple, one word, answer.

Thank you.

The BG tears are flowing like a river.

He just said he is from JQ.

Sol.8341:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

Liu Bei joined forces with Sun Quan to fight against the stronger Cao Cao in romance of the three kingdoms.

But in the end, the cowardly Sun Quan betrayed Liu Bei by attacking his province of Jing while Liu Bei’s general Guan Yu was on the march against Cao Cao. Guan Yu wound up captured by Sun Quan’s forces when he tried to withdraw and was executed. That betrayal sealed the fate of Liu Bei and Sun Quan’s kingdoms, as Cao Cao’s kingdom was never again challenged by either outside force, though it wound up collapsing to an internal coup with the resulting Jin Dynasty re-uniting China.

So the moral of the story is that TC and JQ had better not betray each other until Blackgate is destroyed! Right?

tim.8127:

snip

When BG doesn’t show up then yes it is boredom. Same if you get like TCvMagvDB or JQvMagvDB or BGvMagvDB or SoSvMagvDB. The reason it is boring is because of transfers to have unstoppable coverage. Now 2v1 is a viable strat against constant transfers to the best server (BG) for free wins. This helps smaller servers since people will have a reason to transfer there when a transfer to BG doesn’t guarantee a win and coverage isn’t the sole determination for season wins. A win for WvW in my opinion.

If matches were even where 1st gets flipped constantly like a 1st place server winning by <10k or something. Then there wouldn’t be the need to 2v1. The need for 2v1 comes from some server having more dedicated guilds versus another server or overall they have coverage advantages that the other servers can take advantage off. Say X server has 8 hours of high PPT in a time zone while the other servers can only muster 4 hours of high PPT. The server with that 8 hour coverage advantage has better coverage. Based on how PPT works.

If Anet wanted something like Rule 22 or fair matches they would change WvW to 1 server versus another server not WvWvW or even have GvG instead. That is when it is fair. WvWvW exist so that 2v1 is a strat. And the way the map is designed allows for 2v1. If you want fair you might as well make keeps with 1 entrance. There is a reason there are 2 so that hypothetically speaking 2 servers can attack 1 from multiple fronts.

Honestly iono if it is true that you are from JQ. If you have been on JQ from the start you would be on the community site then you would have seen the JQ thread about this along with the logic and reasoning behind this and how it won’t destroy WvW.

Wvw is not suppose to be fair. Wvw you are suppose to team up against the stronger server, not team up against the server that is the easiest to get caps from. Which is the normal thing to do. The first match this tournament. JQ was complaining about TC/BG teaming up against them but that was during NA when JQ has the least amount of WvW guilds on of the t1 servers. When it was SEA time BG/JQ teamed up against TC because of the same thing. Avoid the strong pick on the weak.

T1 servers have so much coverage that they can lockdown the 3rd server. The lower tier have coverage gaps which would make it difficult to do the same to this extent. It is fair to BG? no. Are you suppose to focus on the stronger server? yes. Is this normal? no. It is common to win a 1v2 when roaming? no.

“Liu Bei joined forces with Sun Quan to fight against the stronger Cao Cao in romance of the three kingdoms…”

Did these guys get bored to death, too?

Thank you BG, your tears of unfathomable sadness are delicious.
#bgtears

Interesting to note that;

IF: 2v1 is not considered “match manipulation” because it is not "PvP,
THEN: Spies, sabotage, etc, are also not be breach of EULA because WvW is not “PvP.”

just something to note.

On the other hand,

IF: WvW Spies, Sabotage, etc. in WvW are considered “match manipulation” in “PvP,” and thus breach of EULA,
THEN: Organizing 2v1’s in WvW should also be considered breach of EULA.

in which case, I really hope to see a few thousand players on both TC and JQ banned.

tl;dr I just wanna see some drama.

BG seems to be doing a new strategy right now of leaving TC and JQ nothing but each other to fight.

The two servers we (Gandara) were up against last week did it right: ganging up on us at peak time in EBG to stop us from holding on to Anza/Durios for longer than 5-10 minutes at a time. They didn’t win many of the resulting fights at Wildcreek/Klovan/Aldons (so… many… lootbags) but it was a viable and well-executed ‘defence by offense’ strategy.

And this is why i have 2 Accs!! Right now im chilling in SFR letting those JQ/TC having fun while most of the BG’s WvW players farm and take a rest like me doing something produtive and having fun with guildmates than wasting time with TC/JQ…let them die bored with those red/blue maps…the fact is if it was possible to SFR fight TC/JQ…poor them…not even with 2v1 guys!! They’re just weak…they not even close…and if you have any doubt…go check for yourself…
SFR and BG when they WIN they win with honor and pride…they don’t need to call for the other world help… in the case of BG this season we’re having a bad time cause of that was said earlier in this same topic…unlike some of you think to know…in BG we DONT have anymore full time coverage and its rare the day we have queues…in other hand in SFR prime time…well…queue is a normal thing between 80~140…

HARDOFREADING.7298:

You either fight with honor ….or you don’t. There is no in-between….you can troll post after post until they get locked or removed but the fact of the matter remains….You either have Honor….Or you don’t
Which is it?

“If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan your mission properly..” ^^ quote by David Hackworth. Although it is a game, people are playing at war. Honor is good and all, but if you think about it, where is the honor modern war? IED vs. drone strikes – both lack ‘honor’, but both get the job done – i.e. demoralize and defeat your enemy by any means necessary. Just a thought.

Man it seems all the Tier 1 WvW servers have like 0 Sportsmanship Im glad I transfered our of TC cause all of you JQ,TC,and BG all lie cheat and steal just to win a few extra tickets kinda puts a sad spin on such a great game I hop after this tournament after all the crap you will at least try and stop acting so awful towards each other and learn some sportsmanship.

tim.8127:

If ANet responds and says that Rule 22 does not apply to WvW then the point is moot.

If, however, ANet deems Rule 22 to apply then methods of detection would need to be considered. I do not want this thread to be derailed by arguments about potential detection and enforcement methods, although I can (off the top of my head) think of a few:

1) Consider A and B engaged in 2v1 against C. A launches an assault on C’s keep whilst B spawn camps. Were it to occur but once, one could simply reason that A might have simply launched an opportunistic ninja attack whilst B was happy farming C. No foul. However, if an hour later the roles are reversed, and B assaults whilst A spawn camps, then we veer sharply away from the realm of coincidence into the realm of collusion.

2) An ANet employee, logged into a regular account, joins A’s zerg. TeamSpeak details are obtained and the employee joins TeamSpeak as well to hear the commander. During manoeuvres the commander says something like “Don’t attack B. We’re not attacking B this week. Only attack C.” When queried in /t why A is not attacking B, the response comes back “We need C to come last so that they will drop down a tier and we will play D next week.” This is quite clearly manipulation of the ladder. A publicly accessible TeamSpeak channel is legally recordable and the company’s own /t chat logs are likewise — sufficient evidence to verify a breach.

3) As far as enforcement of consequences is concerned, this has to fall squarely on the shoulders of the commanders. Whilst the grand strategy may have been devised behind closed doors by parties unknown, the zerg follows the commander almost blindly. It defies belief that a commander would unknowingly or unwillingly lead their zerg repeatedly on manoeuvres over the course of days, week, even months, that are collusive in nature. Perhaps a first warning could be that they lose their badge on the commanding character, a second could be loss of all badges for all characters on the account along with a 3-month prohibition on purchasing another, and the third strike could be an account ban.

As I said, however, let us not get bogged down in ‘what if / how then’ speculation as ANet has not made an official response and such a discussion may end up moot. The above examples are just off the top of my head, so were developers or the community to collectively address this issue I am sure much better methods could be devised. Suffice to say that relatively simple and effective ways to detect collusion of the 2v1 kind, and enforce consequences, exist — if they (‘solutions’ to the ‘problem’) didn’t exist then I would not have bothered posting in the first place.

Thanks again for your continued input into this discussion.

Anet will never come forth right and say that the rule does or does not apply to WvW as with any other rules. It is then up to interpretation to determine how logical it would be to apply the rule while considering context and individual cases. That’s why I included how to prove a 2v1 as a way to enforce said rule. Making rules and not being able to enforce them would mean that either the company isn’t the brightest or that it doesn’t apply to a particular game mode. I’m going to side with the latter.

I had drawn out arguments for each argument but decided against it. Instead, all 3 points ignore Map Politics as a legitimate strategy and want to first get your opinion on that. While 3 would be an abuse of players. Commanders can be anyone who puts up the 100g who can choose to tag up at any point in time garnering players biased on their success or failure. You are saying that the people who choose to tag up have the potential to be blamed for a few commanders choose to collude with another server.

I know you said that there could be better methods, but that’s the thing there really isn’t any. I’m not bogging down the discussion by trying to prove the legitimacy of applying said rule. As I stated in the beginning Anet is not going to directly come out and say that it does or does not apply to WvW because they might end up excluding a sort of map manipulation that occurs in WvW that this rule would apply for (for example 2 players trading stomping for the sole purpose of adding points to the total war score). Therefore this whole thread is moot and would be just considered spam. If that is the course of action then I will report the thread for what it is and move on. If not then application and enforcement of said rule in an if/then situation applies to interpretation of the rule and if if it applies to WvW.

If you (and others) are waiting for a red flag response you are going to be disappointed. 2v1 is actually something I wish was more encouraged more often as I believe it would lead to a healthier and more competitive WvW which I also believe was intended in it’s creation.

lol #bgtears #buygate

2v1 is not a breach of conduct. Organizing a 2v1 in advance so you can win trade is both against the code and beyond pathetic. Trading wins to manipulate the entire tournament so you can finish first and second is actually impressively blatant. It will be interesting to see if anet cares enough about wvw to do something about it. They will probably tell us they are working on it, ask for our opinion in a thread, then lock that thread for match discussion.

Reikou.7068:

IF: 2v1 is not considered “match manipulation” because it is not "PvP,
THEN: Spies, sabotage, etc, are also not be breach of EULA because WvW is not “PvP.”

just something to note.

Trying… so… hard… to remember when ANet did anything at all about spies and saboteurs.

DivineBuddha.1589:

Man it seems all the Tier 1 WvW servers have like 0 Sportsmanship Im glad I transfered our of TC cause all of you JQ,TC,and BG all lie cheat and steal just to win a few extra tickets kinda puts a sad spin on such a great game I hop after this tournament after all the crap you will at least try and stop acting so awful towards each other and learn some sportsmanship.

It’s probably for the best, a lack perspective it probably better welcomed in other communities.

Enjoy your week off BG, don’t forget season 1. I’ve linked a video so you can always remember! #howtofarm

BAITness.1083:

2v1 is not a breach of conduct. Organizing a 2v1 in advance so you can win trade is both against the code and beyond pathetic. Trading wins to manipulate the entire tournament so you can finish first and second is actually impressively blatant. It will be interesting to see if anet cares enough about wvw to do something about it. They will probably tell us they are working on it, ask for our opinion in a thread, then lock that thread for match discussion.

O please. “2 v 1 is ok as long as its not organized beforehand”. Zerging is ok as long as its not organized beforehand. Yes, let’s all just play the game without a clear plan of attack. JQ and TC have brains to combine forces and plan it out. Now BG response is constantly moan and groan on forum begging for developer intervention.

It would be interesting for Anet to comment on that looking at 2 different points of view.

On one hand, 2vs1 I suppose could ruin the enjoyment of another if they are essentially relegated to being stuck in their spawn point.

On the other hand, stacking your server to the point your opponents have no chance (and cause other servers WvW populations to implode) also ruins the enjoyment of others on a much grander scale than 2vs1.

Remember, you can’t be biased about this, you have to look at it from all angles but you do bring up an interesting point.

Anet already did say that 2vs1 is a viable strategy to bring down the bigger server, so I think we already know the answer to that.

With that, it really is in the server’s hands to enhance their own enjoyment. They have to ask themselves the question “why is their enjoyment being ruined”. Then they have to ask themselves “is there anything we can do to prevent the actions taken against us”

Answering the second question should come to the glaring conclusion: Do not stack your server. Action/reaction as they say.

Im from Blackgate most of our Server don’t really care about the 2v1 other then the Bag drop increase, we have had more precursor and ascended chest drops since the 2v1 started

because of the 60-80 man JQ/TC Zerg if most people who play JQ or TC understand your winning the PPT but your losing the actual Zerg fights ive made 200g from heavy bags alone last week, so if someone wants to start insulting that blackgate is crying or someone from blackgate starts complaining about the 2v1 please understand they don’t speak for us and they are just here to troll the forums

Sol.8341:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

Liu Bei joined forces with Sun Quan to fight against the stronger Cao Cao in romance of the three kingdoms.

Kudos to TC and JQ for making Season 2 in NA so interesting ! First class entertainment.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

But in the end, the cowardly Sun Quan betrayed Liu Bei by attacking his province of Jing while Liu Bei’s general Guan Yu was on the march against Cao Cao. Guan Yu wound up captured by Sun Quan’s forces when he tried to withdraw and was executed. That betrayal sealed the fate of Liu Bei and Sun Quan’s kingdoms, as Cao Cao’s kingdom was never again challenged by either outside force, though it wound up collapsing to an internal coup with the resulting Jin Dynasty re-uniting China.

So the moral of the story is that TC and JQ had better not betray each other until Blackgate is destroyed! Right?

Lol, got me having flashbacks of my freshman year in high school. Picked up Dynasty Warriors for the first time and got sucked into the Three Kingdoms era for years. Too bad most English history forums on that subject have died off.

P.S. BG stop holding the forums hostage with your crying.

DivineBuddha.1589:

Man it seems all the Tier 1 WvW servers have like 0 Sportsmanship Im glad I transfered our of TC cause all of you JQ,TC,and BG all lie cheat and steal just to win a few extra tickets kinda puts a sad spin on such a great game I hop after this tournament after all the crap you will at least try and stop acting so awful towards each other and learn some sportsmanship.

It is a WvWvW what do you expect. If you want pure fairness how about this. Let JQ upgrade to T3 max on their BL same goes for BG and TC. Then everyone queues for EB and fights constantly over SMC that way nobody can say “Oh nos” we are getting 2v1 in WvWvW it is not fair. /pride. /sportsmanship.

So letting say HoD auto win in Silver = sportsmanship. But to make things more interesting and competitive = not? hmmmm . I hope people transfer to FA, SBI, and YB cause that is the only way to beat HoD in Silver. Can’t 2v1 since that is lack of sportsmanship. Might as well let HoD T3 everything on their side cause if two servers decide they want to get rid of a waypoint because it is tactically advantageous = lack of sportsmanship. #logic

DeadlySynz.3471:

It would be interesting for Anet to comment on that looking at 2 different points of view.

On one hand, 2vs1 I suppose could ruin the enjoyment of another if they are essentially relegated to being stuck in their spawn point.

On the other hand, stacking your server to the point your opponents have no chance (and cause other servers WvW populations to implode) also ruins the enjoyment of others on a much grander scale than 2vs1.

Remember, you can’t be biased about this, you have to look at it from all angles but you do bring up an interesting point.

Anet already did say that 2vs1 is a viable strategy to bring down the bigger server, so I think we already know the answer to that.

With that, it really is in the server’s hands to enhance their own enjoyment. They have to ask themselves the question “why is their enjoyment being ruined”. Then they have to ask themselves “is there anything we can do to prevent the actions taken against us”

Answering the second question should come to the glaring conclusion: Do not stack your server. Action/reaction as they say.

JQ stacks SEA even further from SoR transfers.
TC receives a handful of guilds from SoR transfers.
BG receives 1 OXC guild fielding 20-25 players and an ex-BG guild.

Lets not forget BG has lost guilds since season 1.

BG stacked ftw.

Once you get it through your head that BG players simply play longer when the odds are even, you’ll see how silly you and the countless others are when you claim a server is stacked despite you being part of a FULL server as well. It’s not BG’s job to get your guys into wvw, whether they’re PvE/PvX/WvW.

Budman.2934:

Im from Blackgate most of our Server don’t really care about the 2v1 other then the Bag drop increase, we have had more precursor and ascended chest drops since the 2v1 started

because of the 60-80 man JQ/TC Zerg if most people who play JQ or TC understand your winning the PPT but your losing the actual Zerg fights ive made 200g from heavy bags alone last week, so if someone wants to start insulting that blackgate is crying or someone from blackgate starts complaining about the 2v1 please understand they don’t speak for us and they are just here to troll the forums

hahaha this username tells so much about the post. Oh and Brah check the video link I posted thats how to farm.

Edit : stop buying the brick weed

BAITness.1083:

2v1 is not a breach of conduct. Organizing a 2v1 in advance so you can win trade is both against the code and beyond pathetic. Trading wins to manipulate the entire tournament so you can finish first and second is actually impressively blatant. It will be interesting to see if anet cares enough about wvw to do something about it. They will probably tell us they are working on it, ask for our opinion in a thread, then lock that thread for match discussion.

No not really, it is the fault of the third server for not doing anything about it. I’m sure if BG stops crying on the forums and actually plan a way to make sure TC doesn’t win they would at least be able to do something. Instead BG loves to play the victim card and honestly nobody is buying it. #bgtears

It is like if say SoS had 2x coverage and numbers versus DB and Mag and saying it is pathetic that SoS has more coverage. Seriously DB and Mag could focus SoS or 2v1 them. BG complains too much about this because the dominate BG strat since pre S1 has been recruit + buy more guilds. The reason is that more coverage = win. No coverage = lose. Don’t believe me look at the coverage difference between servers across T2→T8 NA and you can see. Instead now at least coverage isn’t the #1 strat because you can get focused/2v1d.

Posting in a thread probably soon to be closed.

2v1 is a legit strategy inherent in 3-way RvR..er…WvW. (This is a recording).

Good luck to everyone as this season continues.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out and whether or not it affects WvW long-term.

/salute

The match-up forums and threads like these always make for awesome entertainment. It’s like the chimpanzee exhibit at the zoo; a bunch of monkeys throwing poop at each other.

And at the same time, watching people sling crap at each other like chimps over a video game makes me lose just a little bit more faith in humanity. My server, Desolation is currently getting 2v1’d by SFR and BB, but I’m having loads of fun. I DC’d mid fight at our Garrison on Deso BLs and we were besieged by both BB and SFR, and it’s the most fun I’ve had in WvW in a long time.

Instead acting like a bunch of unruly children, why not try enjoying the game instead? And if you’re not, is it really so hard to find something else to do instead? Well, I suppose that’s a rhetorical question. This thread answers that question pretty well I think.

BG, please stop complaining. TC, JQ, one day you will complain, just like you did in the first week of the season when you both claimed that BG was 2v1ing you, so, please stop complaining.

T1, seems to be the complainers tier. Why don’t you guys drop to some lower tiers, and see how it feels to get ran over every week by another server and there is nothing you can do about it. I don’t even think it is possible for FA to 2v1 HoD and beat HoD.

BG, they have a hatred for you. They say you are buying guilds, paying players to take bloodlust, etc, etc, so they just come after you. Ironically, they are cannibalizing each other at the same time, and SoS is just sitting back there laughing. If TC beats JQ, JQ beats TC, blah, blah, SoS will just slowly move on up with thier points and get 2nd or 3rd.

But hey, JQ and TC are having fun. So, BG, just enjoy blowing up DB and Mag, and letting those two turn on each other in about two weeks, and after that, we will see how well their alliance is.

CuRtoKy.8576:

DivineBuddha.1589:

Man it seems all the Tier 1 WvW servers have like 0 Sportsmanship Im glad I transfered our of TC cause all of you JQ,TC,and BG all lie cheat and steal just to win a few extra tickets kinda puts a sad spin on such a great game I hop after this tournament after all the crap you will at least try and stop acting so awful towards each other and learn some sportsmanship.

It is a WvWvW what do you expect. If you want pure fairness how about this. Let JQ upgrade to T3 max on their BL same goes for BG and TC. Then everyone queues for EB and fights constantly over SMC that way nobody can say “Oh nos” we are getting 2v1 in WvWvW it is not fair. /pride. /sportsmanship.

So letting say HoD auto win in Silver = sportsmanship. But to make things more interesting and competitive = not? hmmmm . I hope people transfer to FA, SBI, and YB cause that is the only way to beat HoD in Silver. Can’t 2v1 since that is lack of sportsmanship. Might as well let HoD T3 everything on their side cause if two servers decide they want to get rid of a waypoint because it is tactically advantageous = lack of sportsmanship. #logic

I’m very sorry if I like to have a healthy yet competitive play time when i play a game but I dont find any 2v1 that fun win or lose especially when its pre organized and the fact I was harassed quite extensively for even mentioning that we should play fair made the choice very easy but I can only hope after all this TC/JQ/BG can find some way of being better players for the community.

we are pretty good players, many of us.

I love how much like real life tribal warfare this has turned out. The psychology is interesting. It’s more than a game.

Kigera.9584:

Lol, got me having flashbacks of my freshman year in high school. Picked up Dynasty Warriors for the first time and got sucked into the Three Kingdoms era for years. Too bad most English history forums on that subject have died off.

My forum on it will start up again in earnest sometime. Honest! Then we can have angry arguments over double-teams in that game too.

CuRtoKy.8576:

DivineBuddha.1589:

Man it seems all the Tier 1 WvW servers have like 0 Sportsmanship Im glad I transfered our of TC cause all of you JQ,TC,and BG all lie cheat and steal just to win a few extra tickets kinda puts a sad spin on such a great game I hop after this tournament after all the crap you will at least try and stop acting so awful towards each other and learn some sportsmanship.

So letting say HoD auto win in Silver = sportsmanship. But to make things more interesting and competitive = not? hmmmm . I hope people transfer to FA, SBI, and YB cause that is the only way to beat HoD in Silver. Can’t 2v1 since that is lack of sportsmanship. Might as well let HoD T3 everything on their side cause if two servers decide they want to get rid of a waypoint because it is tactically advantageous = lack of sportsmanship. #logic

We are lacking in organization, logic, strategy to pull it off down here in Silver. Not to mention some people can’t get it through their heads that it is strategy and not some dishonorable action to even do a natural organic 2v1. But honestly we couldn’t beat HoD even if we 3v1’d them – their off hours coverage is too great.

Not until Anet changes the scoring system / win conditions will proper 2v1’s become prevelant and thus make the game more fun for all.

Oh, and it is not a breach of CoC.

ROFL this thread…..

CuRtoKy.8576:

BAITness.1083:

2v1 is not a breach of conduct. Organizing a 2v1 in advance so you can win trade is both against the code and beyond pathetic. Trading wins to manipulate the entire tournament so you can finish first and second is actually impressively blatant. It will be interesting to see if anet cares enough about wvw to do something about it. They will probably tell us they are working on it, ask for our opinion in a thread, then lock that thread for match discussion.

No not really, it is the fault of the third server for not doing anything about it. I’m sure if BG stops crying on the forums and actually plan a way to make sure TC doesn’t win they would at least be able to do something. Instead BG loves to play the victim card and honestly nobody is buying it. #bgtears

It is like if say SoS had 2x coverage and numbers versus DB and Mag and saying it is pathetic that SoS has more coverage. Seriously DB and Mag could focus SoS or 2v1 them. BG complains too much about this because the dominate BG strat since pre S1 has been recruit + buy more guilds. The reason is that more coverage = win. No coverage = lose. Don’t believe me look at the coverage difference between servers across T2->T8 NA and you can see. Instead now at least coverage isn’t the #1 strat because you can get focused/2v1d.

Wait you honestly think BG has more coverage than JQ and TC? When I wake up early I get to map hop playing against a massive jq SEA that says otherwise. There is no lack of coverage on these servers. They literally lost one match so they decided that they needed to rig the entire tournament to compete. After they had already won every match for two months between the two of them, they just couldn’t comprehend losing. Clearly they had to work together to manipulate the outcome of the entire tournament.