Being that this is another of multiple threads on this topic. Can a dev please step in and tell if this is an intended mechanic or a bannable exploit! Many players in this game don’t know how things work and just copy something that works that they may see others do in the game. That is why you end up with so many mesmers blinking through walls and before it was fixed, the thief teams’ Inkshot into Bay and take it. This may end up being another unintended function that just gets fixed in a patch next november.
Its usefulness is limited but when a few rangers team up and go to a quiet side of a map with not many defenders they sure can wipe out lots of wall siege in preparation of an assault. Including Arrow carts, mortars, cannons, oil and anything else on top of a wall.
My opinion on the matter is that this may encourage more defending of assets instead of the karma train rolling around the map. Now some people will have to stay and defend things that aren’t necessarily at risk of being lost to enemy zerg.
I’m confused. What happens now? Your server owns a keep, you use “guard” on the wall, and the aerial pet will attack various siege? Or does it have to be a keep/tower owned by your opponent?
I learned of this technique on this very board on the Ranger forums. There have been numerous posts there explaning how to better utilize pets and not a single ArenaNet employee has every said anything about it.
As pointed out here, pets are a great way to destory siege. In fact, they are often a great way to destroy siege even when players are using it as they seem to ignore the pets for some reason.
If you are defending, pets are superb in that regard. You have to set your traits to focus on pet damage and survivability (not particularily useful outside the tower/keep defense scenario) but once you do that, they are quite murderous to unsuspecting players. Most have no clue how to deal with a pet that is extremely hard to kill.
So, I’m with the OP. If using the pet in this manner is an exploit, I would like to hear about it before a ban sweep.
JonPeters.5630:]I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement…
In my book it’s no exploit or abuse. Just because it’s a pet people make up things like pets can’t walk up walls? Well I don’t think IRL pets spawn out of nowhere when you “summon” them either, I usually see a dog / cat whatever approach and not just be there instantly…
For me it’s just the same like any other targeted skill like ele AoE, engi supply crate etc. Mesmer clones are a bit different but still very simmilar as well imo.
Do you have to have line of sight or does this function like the old mesmer phantasms that didn’t need it? I would say that if it works while not having line of sight on your target that it is definitely bugged and needs to be brought in line.
SoR – Nethernoz (Necro), Zealot of Pain (Guardian), William The Butcher (Ranger)
It’s a targetable reticle. You have to stand where you can target the top of the wall. Once you do that, your pet appears there in stealth and starts to lick it’s chops.
JonPeters.5630:]I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement…
Ascii, then why is not a bug that a whole host of player types can AOE me to death from the ground outside when I’m on the wall of a closed keep?
But they did make mesmer’s ability LOS for there pets that can get up the wall so unless the ranger ability needs LOS then its a bug if it dose need a LOS its not so much.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Ascii, then why is not a bug that a whole host of player types can AOE me to death from the ground outside when I’m on the wall of a closed keep?
But they did make mesmer’s ability LOS for there pets that can get up the wall so unless the ranger ability needs LOS then its a bug if it dose need a LOS its not so much.
Mesmers illusions appear up there apon cast, not run up the wall to get there and LoS is different, you have to physically be able to target the area to get the effect and they nurfed non-LoS hitting topside walls and behind gates long ago.
Its a bug pure and simple. If you cant get up there why should your pet be allowed to?
I think the key words everyone is saying here is climbing up walls. Last i checked wall scaling is abuse.
Pretty much this.
Do you have to ask? It’s a safe bet to assume that it is, then.
Let’s put it this way. If you were designing a balanced and competitive environment, would you want players to be able to torpedo animals through walls to clear siege? Chances are that no, you would not.
Fosthe — Sylvari Elementalist
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
The pets don’t go through the walls. If you are on the wall casting out you have to target the ground. If you are on the ground, you have to be able to target the top of the wall.
So far, no one has said how this differs from AOE from someone on the ground killing folks on walls of towers and keeps. Why isn’t that a bug (or exploit)? And I don’t think AOE is limited to Mesmer Illusions.
JonPeters.5630:]I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement…
The Ranger doesn’t need LoS on the siege to throw down the guard but you do need LoS on the siege to command the pet to attack it. The pet does not just climb up the wall and start wrecking through all of the siege.
We share apocalyptic views, how comforting that we see it too.
if you stand on top of a wall and cast guard on the ground, the pet simply teleports to that location.
so even if it cannot climb up the wall, it will simply teleport, hence its pretty clear that it should be treated as any other LOS aoe.
plus i rather have a pet attacking my siege than an ele casting meteor shower.
a pet can be: blinded, stunned, knockdowned, knockbacked and ow wait… KILLED.
a meteor shower or any other AOE set in motion cannot be countered.
Kengo Miyazawa ~ norn warrior
Commander of Far Shiverpeaks
Leader of Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]
I stopped using Guard a couple of matches ago when people on other servers were getting used to it. After a couple of arrow carts or a treb unless they’re entirely bad defenders or attackers then that pet is toast.
I feel they should address how defense in towers and keeps is handled, you would think being on the high ground in a fortified position would give you the advantage. No, all it does is make it easier for enemies to focus fire the only areas you’re able to shoot back at them from, whereas they have all of the ground below to run around on(basically makes grenadier worthless for defense, godlike for offense if someone is stupid enough to stay on the edge). Worse is the mesmer aoe pull that doesn’t even need los.
As far as pets go, I’ve seen dogs and bears magically appear on walls, and behind doors and chase people pretty much to the champions.
Yeah I stopped using it also, although if mesmer pets can clear siege and elementalist dragon tooths can go through walls I would really like a dev to speak up about the use of this. I still use my pets to guard outside of a tower when I’m inside. I don’t see any other purpose for this skill. But alot of rangers want to clear the siege and like me shy away from using this skill until we hear it from a dev. Just let us know…
If you play a necro or a norn you can put a worm turret on the wall. The ranger ability has a red crosshair which mean its a ground targeted ability like the worms so if the pet goes on the wall then that is the intent of the ability.
Ascii, then why is it not a bug that a whole host of player types can AOE me to death from the ground outside when I’m on the wall of a closed keep?
They changed Mesmer summons specifically because of this issue of if the object is blocked form mesmer the illusions can no longer be summoned on it. This will be changed.
if you stand on top of a wall and cast guard on the ground, the pet simply teleports to that location.
so even if it cannot climb up the wall, it will simply teleport, hence its pretty clear that it should be treated as any other LOS aoe.
plus i rather have a pet attacking my siege than an ele casting meteor shower.
a pet can be: blinded, stunned, knockdowned, knockbacked and ow wait… KILLED.
a meteor shower or any other AOE set in motion cannot be countered.
Same thing was said about iZerker and yet it was nerfed changing whole mechanics of summoings to be horrid. And iZerker was less dmg and easier to kill than a Ranger pet spec pet.
It is difficult to exactly compare the different types of abilities as they do not all work the same:
-Regular AoE spells hit all targets in an area that does not change and have a fixed duration
-Mesmer iZerker hits a specific target that must be in line of site but also other targets within an area of effect that can move, and they persist until they are destroyed
-Ranger pets are AoE targetable, hit a single target, but can then move outside that area to pursue that target, and they persist until they are destroyed (based on what people have written here and assuming that is correct)
That said, the iZerker was nerfed because it was able to kill siege outside LoS, and because it is persistent was not subject to CDs. The fact that the pet can do this also and is more durable I think would warrant it being looked at.
I play a ranger as my main and have hundreds more hours on it than any other character. The fact is that using guard to climb a wall should be allowed. The reason is because if the target is lost, the pet returns to ranger; if the ranger is too far away, the pet returns; a few people can definitely handle a ranger pet on pet spec (not that difficult), and finally, it’s one of the neat things only rangers can do.
People constantly complain about how bad this class is. They whine about pets and everything else. If you guys think this little ability makes rangers easy to play, come play one.
Ranger is by far the most micro intensive class there is. This gives a great player the ability to pwn with ranger. It also makes less skilled players think “rangers are worthless”. I really wish people would stop complaining about ranger and / or trying to buff or nerf it.
The fact is ANET is much, much better than any of you at balancing classes and creating games. I’d have to say they’re at least 1 million times better at it than any of us. So how about we stop all the QQing about classes and let ANET do their thing and choose the direction for the classes properly in a balanced way?
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
I have been using my pet to go after siege as well using “Guard” on walls, though I’ll hold off for now. I didn’t even realize people would think of it like an exploit or be bannable. I would really like to hear an official word from the dev team on this.
The way I saw it, it made me incredibly useful in an assault. Considering that elementalists and mesmers are capable of much more than this, I felt I could help by using this skill this way.
I have been using my pet to go after siege as well using “Guard” on walls, though I’ll hold off for now.
I wouldn’t stop using it as I don’t see it as an exploit (I happily used iZerker before it was nerfed). The real problem is that Anet does not seem to use consistent logic when considering problems, such that Guard and Dragon’s Tooth are not also fixed (maybe they will never be if people don’t cry about them enough, like people did with the iZerker).
I have been using my pet to go after siege as well using “Guard” on walls, though I’ll hold off for now.
I wouldn’t stop using it as I don’t see it as an exploit (I happily used iZerker before it was nerfed). The real problem is that Anet does not seem to use consistent logic when considering problems, such that Guard and Dragon’s Tooth are not also fixed (maybe they will never be if people don’t cry about them enough, like people did with the iZerker).
People just generally hate mesmers because they force them to learn to play. Hence you hear a lot more QQ.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Wait…people are complaining about pets, which are some of the EASIEST things to kill in PvP? AoE kills them pretty fast people, it isn’t that hard to take out a pet.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Wait…people are complaining about pets, which are some of the EASIEST things to kill in PvP? AoE kills them pretty fast people, it isn’t that hard to take out a pet.
Phantasams were easier to kill. Did you see all the crying they caused?
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Wait…people are complaining about pets, which are some of the EASIEST things to kill in PvP? AoE kills them pretty fast people, it isn’t that hard to take out a pet.
Phantasams were easier to kill. Did you see all the crying they caused?
Good point.
To quote a meme…“This is why we can’t have nice things.”
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Rangers are the only class that has a permanent pet. It’s not a weapon skill, it’s not a utility skill, it’s not an elite, it’s THE particular mechanic of our class. And of course, climbing walls requires Guard, our pets don’t just climb walls by themselves.
And yes, they have their own LoS but we have to be able to target the siege first, so we can’t send our pets to destroy any siege that is away from OUR LoS, meaning that the siege we can destroy is the same that can be destroyed by most AoE’s.
We know that people don’t wanna waste their time killing our pets because they won’t get badges for it. And we count on that.
It’d be a shame if Anet listen to these complaints.
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
Wait…people are complaining about pets, which are some of the EASIEST things to kill in PvP? AoE kills them pretty fast people, it isn’t that hard to take out a pet.
Phantasams were easier to kill. Did you see all the crying they caused?
The big problem is that 50 % of the community say its an exploit and the other say its not. Arena net has to tell us! Other way the comunity just rage each other!
And the biggest joke is:
Im a ranger (RANGEr) and play with longbow, axe and warhorn and have ONE aoe skill that i can use on walls! and this skill has a 30 sec CD …
3
a : a place that may be ranged over
b : an open region over which animals (as livestock) may roam and feed
c : the region throughout which a kind of organism or ecological community naturally lives or occurs
4
: the act of ranging about
1
a : the keeper of a British royal park or forest
b : forest ranger
2
: one that ranges
3
a : one of a body of organized armed men who range over a region especially to enforce the law b : a soldier specially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics
It’s unfortunately a common misconception that the title ‘ranger’ somehow has something to do with distance or projectile reach.
Fosthe — Sylvari Elementalist
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
It’s not really that important in terms of siege equipment or indeed attacking over the wall, and you need to spec specifically for it in order to use it, and the cool downs will make it pretty worthless in a siege. The range of guard is fairly short so getting within range and getting it to work could leave you dead.
Anyone who is awake will spot anything on the wall and kill it- be it clones, pets or whatever.
It takes forever for one pet to break one piece of siege – an ele is FAR more effective at killing the siege and the person using it than a pet will ever be.
I don’t really see this as much of a problem, it’s more of a gimmick, and there are far more important issues to deal with in wvw than this.
Victory, Beings Lost On Borderlands (BLOB), SFR & Gandara (inactive)
I think it should be fixed in a way, that pet should physically move to guarded area. I mean, since player can’t move to top of the walls, so pets shouldn’t either. If there is possibility for player reach specific place, then pet may guard that area.
I think it should be fixed in a way, that pet should physically move to guarded area. I mean, since player can’t move to top of the walls, so pets shouldn’t either. If there is possibility for player reach specific place, then pet may guard that area.
Or restore mesmer phantasms
I play Mesmer too but i think the mesmer berserker was changed cause he was instand cast and made 20% of the siege damage with one aoe line. and you couldnt stop him.
Also nobody use the last trait of the ranger exept bots!
and also nobody would use “Guard” and the other pet spells… they are so bad exept maybe where the damage from the player gets on the pet for the next 6 sec…
but i dont see what the ranger has what other classes can do better -.-
its a joke to be a ranger … in some dungoens nobody invites you cause you are a ranger … its racist!!
I play ranger, “Guard” onto walls is not exploit, many rangers use it.
But, I have to agree that “Guard” is OP especially in WvW.
All posts above has not mentioned the real OP part of this skill. It’s not the ninja pet atk but the…… (don’t want to post here since not many ppl use it yet , but it can be really game changing especially in wvw, use your imagination)
I play ranger, “Guard” onto walls is not exploit, many rangers use it.
But, I have to agree that “Guard” is OP especially in WvW.
All posts above has not mentioned the real OP part of this skill. It’s not the ninja pet atk but the…… (don’t want to post here since not many ppl use it yet , but it can be really game changing especially in wvw, use your imagination)
Well, if done right, with the correct skills, the Active on Signet of Stone can be used by the Ranger to gain that full invulnerability (plus some). Not sure if that’s OP though. Also, not sure if I’m going down the right track with what you’re talking about.
JonPeters.5630:]I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement…
In my opinion, it’s not a bug, flaw, or exploit. If someone ever reports a player for doing this they need a time out! This is a valid tactic for a Ranger. Fore a pet is not a mindless clone or phantasm. It’s a separate being with a mind and will of it’s own. The Ranger is simply giving it a gesture and it’s choosing to obeying. That’s why pets each have their own special skills and attributes too.
The other part of the equation is, while defending, are you not sending your pet’s down to attack the attackers? So, then the mechanic is equalized that way. Sounds like most folks are just whining because they don’t have a pet, period.
This will be changed. They changed iberserker precisely because of this. How will they explain to the other players that you can allow pets to scale walls, but not allow the same for phantasms?
Since we are on this and in line with the various logical arguments put forth by the players, there really should not be any limit as to how high or far our ranger pets with flying capability can go. I mean birds should be able to fly over walls and attack everyone inside towers and keeps or even soar as high up as the third floor of SMC to attack the trebs up there, no?
This really needs a Devs reply.. I really don’t think this is an exploit, when attacking towers , your Pet is basically useless .. and as the Devs say, your pet is part of your damage. Works both ways if your defending your pet should be able to drop down and attack players.
Hope rangers wont be banned for this, the way i see it an exploit is when you get huge advantage or gain something for nothing. Using this skills does not grant a huge advantage. It is only letting you use your pet, which is part your damage computation output and class mechanics
Could you imagine a siege if rangers could cap one of those Risen Eagles. They would just fly around above the walls crapping on everyone. This would be hilarious.
I think it’s fine, much like engi turrets are fine. At the same time it’s annoying since they leave things like this and dragontooth while kitten mesmer for awhile to keep up from doing this.
