Guild Wars 2

To answer the question first: We cannot know anymore.

The reason is very simple, the tiers are now that far apart, that switching between tiers is no longer possible. Each tier now only plays it’s own inner-tier ranking (around the brackets average rank), but comparison between tiers is not possible anymore as there are no switches between tiers anymore..

Determine the matches has to be decoupled from the ranking for Glicko-2 to work properly. E.g. determine matches using on a rank-based probability and not using a rank-based determination.

So basically, the matchup roll can be everywhere between 0 and your score, then these numbers are used to determine the next matchup?
RNT (Random Number Trolling)
I can already see JQ losing points to FC and GOM because they can not beat them by 650k points(only by 620k)

naphack.9346:

I can already see JQ losing points to FC and GOM because they can not beat them by 650k points(only by 620k)

Yes and that only shows that JQ is (likely still better, but) not that much better than FC or GOM than the current broken ranking suggests.

There’s a secret ninja server that has been diligently training secret tactics and manoeuvres. They’ve been biding their time, waiting to obliterate all tiers on their imminent journey to T1, victory and honour. No other server knows this secret. Neither of the enemy servers in their current tier even know – they’ve seen whispers perhaps, but nothing more than shadows in the dark…

…while the ninja server waits to strike.

Dayra.7405:

To answer the question first: We cannot know anymore.

The reason is very simple, the tiers are now that far apart, that switching between tiers is no longer possible. Each tier now only plays it’s own inner-tier ranking (around the brackets average rank), but comparison between tiers is not possible anymore as there are no switches between tiers anymore..

Determine the matches has to be decoupled from the ranking for Glicko-2 to work properly. E.g. determine matches using on a rank-based probability and not using a rank-based determination.

Hi Elona friend, EU tier 1 is so messed up right now with all the blobbing and Zerging going on. Most of the times is unplayable because of the skill lag. its better for you guys to stay in tier 2 for better game experience imho. GL

I dont really get what you are saying about t1 vs FC and GOM… We on DR hit the wall pretty hard in t4 before our run came to an end – there is a huge gap just there. Coverage aside, JQ would have both teams inside their citadels and EB spawns, all exits camped, 24/7 for any amount of time they played them. I think you are severely overestimating the simple manpower available to us lower servers, let alone the ZvZ tactics. Some small groups from lower servers may be able to keep up with you, but the servers themselves would get destroyed.

T1 vs T8 is currently not possible and thats why T1 and T8 (and anything in between) are that far apart.

With a ranking based probability of matches T1 vs T8 becomes possible, but still is very unlikely, i.e. like the main price in a lotterie.

I don’t think that such a match will destroy a server, 24/7 is not needed to achieve a big boost in ranking points vs a much higher ranked server. A successful guerrilla tactic with thieves and mesmer groups roaming supply-camps would already gain you ranking points. And it’s not a 1vs1, maybe the low-tier server can be the decisive factor in the fight of two high ranked servers.

It opens up new challenges, every match will be different and most importantly: the weeks and now even month of always the same match will have an end.

Dayra, while points would still be possible to achieve for those on the server that are well coordinated, as i said, a large portion of lower tier populations aren’t on that level. Our players aren’t all traited for WvW, they don’t all know the routes for a karma train, and they sure as hell don’t know how to evade 50+ people while flipping camps. Hell, we call 20 people a zerg. While it would be a nice challenge for those roaming guilds up for it, it would be a hell for 90% of lower tier players who would not be able to leave spawn for the duration of a match. No challenge, no reward, no fun, just running into a wall every time you head out of the invuln zone. A lot of us are happy with the current matchups (some have complaints, but its a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was) – we can play against similar numbers at some times of the day, we can have fun, and no one is so demoralized as to consider quitting WvW for weeks or months. That, I think, is the one thing we need to avoid, more so than stagnant matchups.

Anatolian Turk.4057:

Hi Elona friend, EU tier 1 is so messed up right now with all the blobbing and Zerging going on. Most of the times is unplayable because of the skill lag. its better for you guys to stay in tier 2 for better game experience imho. GL

It’s boring here in T2, facing the same well-kown opponents for weeks and weeks. Knowing already how the week will end for us doesn’t provide much incentive to get innovative and improve our skill. I don’t mind much losing against a superior opponent for a week then beeing stuck in a rather boring (due to the little to no change from week to week) game forever.

SFR didn’t had trouble getting back into T1. It just takes some time. And tbh, with Deso blobbing so hard now, I do think T1 >> T2.

I know a guild on ‘vacation’ and that guild alone steamroles 2 servers.

t1 vs t8/9 should NEVER happen.

Honestly you have JQ and then everyone else no matter what the system you have no other server can match the size of our wvw playerbase 24/7.

Ilesyt.7084:

t1 vs t8/9 should NEVER happen.

If it happened, I’d actually transfer to the t8/t9 server just for the hell of it. Every single killed dolyak almost being worth a full ranking point for the server… Already that thrill would be worth it. Every single step you took outside the spawn would have meaning.

@Asglarek: You know Glicko? If you let a t8 server score ~10k points on you, you already lose around 100-150 ranking points like np.
And trust me, if that matchup happens, there will probably be a bunch of transfers to the t8 server just for that exact reason. Dethroning JQ in one week simply by slapping a couple dolyaks.

MiLkZz.4789:

SFR didn’t had trouble getting back into T1. It just takes some time.

Lol you had a lot trouble getting back to T1.
You won T2 three times and with each “victory” you made minus and moved further away from T1. You only made it up because Piken were demoralized from the guild-transfer and stopped playing. And even with that you made it only by 0.06pts and a millenium-mistake of 5pts.

MiLkZz.4789:

SFR didn’t had trouble getting back into T1. It just takes some time. And tbh, with Deso blobbing so hard now, I do think T1 >> T2.

I know a guild on ‘vacation’ and that guild alone steamroles 2 servers.

WHAT???? The only reason of why SFR went back to T1 is because half the people at Piken didnt want to continue fighting fot T1. Then obviously when several guilds joined SFR we made that giant push. Without massacring your own tier is almost impossible to move up, this system is a total fail.

No troubles, my kitten

naphack.9346:

Ilesyt.7084:

t1 vs t8/9 should NEVER happen.

If it happened, I’d actually transfer to the t8/t9 server just for the hell of it. Every single killed dolyak almost being worth a full ranking point for the server… Already that thrill would be worth it. Every single step you took outside the spawn would have meaning.

@Asglarek: You know Glicko? If you let a t8 server score ~10k points on you, you already lose around 100-150 ranking points like np.
And trust me, if that matchup happens, there will probably be a bunch of transfers to the t8 server just for that exact reason. Dethroning JQ in one week simply by slapping a couple dolyaks.

I think in the long term people that advocate system changes think short term but in the end it would all stay the same. Sure you might have for a month or two of excessive volatility but to use a dairy metaphor the cream will always rise to the top.

We would have moved up with or without the guilds from Piken, you guys just sped up the process. The first 2 weeks in T2 everyone was slacking on SFR and wanted some GvG.

It would have cost us probably 3 weeks or so of hard pushing, but we would have made it. There was no moment what so ever that anyone on our server thought: Dam, look at the point difference. We will never make it back.

But don’t get me wrong, we are glad you joined us, becaus we wouldn’t have had the strenght to beat Vizu.

The system ain’t optimal no, but you can’t deny that if you put a T1 server in the bottum tier, they will quickly steamroll through the tiers till T1 again.

ps.: to make a LoL reference. Their ain’t no tier hell.

You/we wouldnt have made enough points to be able to reach T1 if Piken didnt fall apart. You could win every single week T2 for 2 years and still wouldnt touch T1.

From playing both tier 1 and tier 2 na side. I would say tier 2 has more skilled players in general, but just don’t have the numbers to compete yet. Now not saying there arn’t lots of really good players in tier one. They have some best guilds just there are tons of players that arn’t good there for the tier one “glory”

I agree with the OP

Asglarek.8976:

Honestly you have JQ and then everyone else no matter what the system you have no other server can match the size of our wvw playerbase 24/7.

This. Nothing more need be said and my compliments to the poster who managed to explain JQ’s ranking without trolling people about how skilled their server is. No offense, I am sure JQ has lots of skill, but WvW is a numbers/coverage game NOT a skill game when it comes to rankings.

Dayra.7405:

Yes and that only shows that JQ is (likely still better, but) not that much better than FC or GOM than the current broken ranking suggests.

That’s cute. Please tell me you don’t really believe that JQ wouldn’t completely obliterate any server below probably t2? Not even our NNK/TFV zergs would be able to gain a foothold against JQ, your idea is absolutely ludicrous.

@Pyroatheist:
Will JQ run a 695:0:0 ticker for 24/7 even in the other servers primetime?
And over the whole week JQ never loose a doylak nor a sentry (they give immediate Score points) to a party of invisible thieves?
Any score points the low-rank get will cost JQ ranking points, if you have 2000:500 at start of match

Dear friend,

What is time you playing? If all the time, then T2, if NA time, then T3, if our time, then T4. If no time then go lower.

Peace sincerely

declan.3968:

Dear friend,

What is time you playing? If all the time, then T2, if NA time, then T3, if our time, then T4. If no time then go lower.

Peace sincerely

Tier 1:
“The day has 24 hours, if that’s not enough, we will add the night!!! WE NEED MORE COVERAGE!!!!”
“But… we run full 3 hour queues 24/7 already…”
“MOAR COVERAGE!!!!!!!”

naphack.9346:

declan.3968:

Dear friend,

What is time you playing? If all the time, then T2, if NA time, then T3, if our time, then T4. If no time then go lower.

Peace sincerely

Tier 1:
“The day has 24 hours, if that’s not enough, we will add the night!!! WE NEED MORE COVERAGE!!!!”
“But… we run full 3 hour queues 24/7 already…”
“MOAR COVERAGE!!!!!!!”

Already fact established that T1 have too many players and too long queue. If better go to other tier for more even coveraging.

Dayra.7405:

@Pyroatheist:
Will JQ run a 695:0:0 ticker for 24/7 even in the other servers primetime?
And over the whole week JQ never loose a doylak nor a sentry (they give immediate Score points) to a party of invisible thieves?
Any score points the low-rank get will cost JQ ranking points, if you have 2000:500 at start of match

They probably wouldn’t because most of JQ would take a week of pve break while 1/5th of their coverage maintains 640ppt. The population/coverage gulf between tiers is massive, and anyone who disagrees hasn’t been on a server that’s floated between them.

declan.3968:

Already fact established that T1 have too many players and too long queue. If better go to other tier for more even coveraging.

The nice side-effect of my proposal is: There will be no more T1-matches.
There will be high and low ranked servers, still the high ranked servers may attract more (WTJ) people than the low ranked ones, but it is no longer the case that people that want to play demanding WvW have to concentrate on 3-9 servers.

In fact the likelihood of a demanding match will be equal for all servers, only the queues on the top ranked servers will be longer

MiLkZz.4789:

SFR didn’t had trouble getting back into T1. It just takes some time. And tbh, with Deso blobbing so hard now, I do think T1 >> T2.

I know a guild on ‘vacation’ and that guild alone steamroles 2 servers.

We still remember SFR pvD farmers from morning hours and blobs during prime time.

MiLkZz.4789:

I know a guild on ‘vacation’ and that guild alone steamroles 2 servers.

Probably against Vabbi.

Please stop crying about matchups. I like the match in T2 right now and don’t care if we can compete with T1, which I know we cant.

Dayra.7405:

@Pyroatheist:
Will JQ run a 695:0:0 ticker for 24/7 even in the other servers primetime?
And over the whole week JQ never loose a doylak nor a sentry (they give immediate Score points) to a party of invisible thieves?
Any score points the low-rank get will cost JQ ranking points, if you have 2000:500 at start of match

You know how ludicrous your system would be it literally allow a server to field a 5 man group to map hop killing yaks and sentries to defeat a server.

Asglarek.8976:

Dayra.7405:

@Pyroatheist:
Will JQ run a 695:0:0 ticker for 24/7 even in the other servers primetime?
And over the whole week JQ never loose a doylak nor a sentry (they give immediate Score points) to a party of invisible thieves?
Any score points the low-rank get will cost JQ ranking points, if you have 2000:500 at start of match

You know how ludicrous your system would be it literally allow a server to field a 5 man group to map hop killing yaks and sentries to defeat a server.

Well, that’s the current system. Welcome to WvWvW.
Guess why SF was crying all day long a couple weeks back.

Asglarek.8976:

You know how ludicrous your system would be it literally allow a server to field a 5 man group to map hop killing yaks and sentries to defeat a server.

You will hardly be defeated by that, only the ranking-points will re-adjust back from the 7-month of broken (only moving points up from T8/9 to T1, till all the tier-boarder are not passable anymore as they are to far away) ranking system to a more adequate rank.

Ruprect.7260:

Please stop crying about matchups. I like the match in T2 right now and don’t care if we can compete with T1, which I know we cant.

You like it now. Fine! ANet will not be able to change the ranking system within the next week

You may still like in in a month, but will you like it in 3 month?

Will you like the same match over and over again in 1/2 a year or in a year?

Just be aware, that the current matches will most likely stay forever!
And should a match ever change again, this change will make further changes even more unlikely

Dayra.7405:

Ruprect.7260:

Please stop crying about matchups. I like the match in T2 right now and don’t care if we can compete with T1, which I know we cant.

You like it now. Fine! ANet will not be able to change the ranking system within the next week

You may still like in in a month, but will you like it in 3 month?

Will you like the same match over and over again in 1/2 a year or in a year?

Just be aware, that the current matches will most likely stay forever!
And should a match ever change again, this change will make further changes even more unlikely

Well I can’t think of a time when it is fun to completely dominate or be dominated. So yeah, in 1/2 a year I will still like the match unless something seriously changes.

Ruprect.7260:

Please stop crying about matchups. I like the match in T2 right now and don’t care if we can compete with T1, which I know we cant.

He’s in tier 2 and I’m in tier 8 but he feels what I feel.

Everyone knows coverage is a huge gap between tiers, but the other factor people forget is the concentration of wvw guilds. In tier 3 and below, a single good wvw guild can completely game change the entire tier simply by dominating a single borderland during their primetime. As you move up though, you have dominant guilds on every map that require the same level of organization to counter.