Is it ok that players can decide who win?

Is it ok that players can decide who win?

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

First of all, this is not a qq, so save your childish insults and yes I’m from BG, if that matters.

Point is, I just want to know if this was ever thought of when devs designed the wvw. I get the “smaller servers team up to fight larger server” kinda vibe but it seems to me that at this point it’s not just that, it’s basically only about players deciding who’s gonna win.

1) If people want BG to win -> no team up, let their coverage rules, BG wins
2) If people want JQ to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, and we all know TC can’t beat JQ so JQ wins
3) If people want TC to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, then maybe if JQ is that philanthropic, they would like TC win

It seems… ridiculous to me. I’m not talking about whether it’s fair or not fair. I’m talking about whether this makes sense to make the design that people can pretty much decide who’s gonna win. It makes the whole fights seem pointless.

And it’s not just about tier 1, pretty much any tier can do this if they will it.

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Posted by: Lasica.5068

Lasica.5068

No one has decided who will win as that won’t be determined until the final week. However, we have decided who won’t win.

Why make sense, when it’s so much more fun to make nonsense?

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

No one has decided who will win as that won’t be determined until the final week. However, we have decided who won’t win.

I don’t see the difference, now, next week, next month, people can still decide who win. We know TC can’t win over JQ on a fair and square fight, please don’t kid yourself.

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Posted by: Jeknar.6184

Jeknar.6184

No one has decided who will win as that won’t be determined until the final week. However, we have decided who won’t win.

+1

I don’t see the difference, now, next week, next month, people can still decide who win. We know TC can’t win over JQ on a fair and square fight, please don’t kid yourself.

Well, that’s TC’s problem, not BG’s. Let them decide what they think that is best. Your server have no say on it.

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

No one has decided who will win as that won’t be determined until the final week. However, we have decided who won’t win.

+1

I don’t see the difference, now, next week, next month, people can still decide who win. We know TC can’t win over JQ on a fair and square fight, please don’t kid yourself.

Well, that’s TC’s problem, not BG’s. Let them decide what they think that is best. Your server have no say on it.

See? That’s the whole point of this thread talking about whether it makes sense for people to decide who win. Read. If you feel like expressing malice against BG, there’s a new thread every minute waiting for you. I’m looking for a real discussion here.

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Posted by: sukilih.6913

sukilih.6913

Read what anet said about 2v1. They think it’s fair if some one has better coverage…

Ron burgundy
TC- milk was a bad choice

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Posted by: BAITness.1083

BAITness.1083

First of all, this is not a qq, so save your childish insults and yes I’m from BG, if that matters.

Point is, I just want to know if this was ever thought of when devs designed the wvw. I get the “smaller servers team up to fight larger server” kinda vibe but it seems to me that at this point it’s not just that, it’s basically only about players deciding who’s gonna win.

1) If people want BG to win -> no team up, let their coverage rules, BG wins
2) If people want JQ to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, and we all know TC can’t beat JQ so JQ wins
3) If people want TC to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, then maybe if JQ is that philanthropic, they would like TC win

It seems… ridiculous to me. I’m not talking about whether it’s fair or not fair. I’m talking about whether this makes sense to make the design that people can pretty much decide who’s gonna win. It makes the whole fights seem pointless.

And it’s not just about tier 1, pretty much any tier can do this if they will it.

Keep in mind, JQ and TC have equal coverage to BG. They beat BG for two months on end. They had full queues when they lost week 1. This is not a matter of two lower coverage servers trying to make up the difference. This is the top two ranked servers heading into seasons agreeing not to fight each other and trading wins. A couple guild leaders just threw a fit when BG won their first match in ages and decided to wreck wvw for everyone in T1 by win trading until there were no fights.

I think it is really ridiculous that ANet bothers to make a tournament that they do not bother to regulate. BG could have tried to make a 2v1 alliance with SoS like JQ and TC did, and further destroyed the game. Fortunately that did not happen, but for 3 weeks at least there will be jack all to do in T1.

Thank goodness for the forums, the TC and JQ trolls are the most interesting thing happening in this matchup.

Hyade and his flamethrower

(edited by BAITness.1083)

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Posted by: PacoXI.7690

PacoXI.7690

Who else decides who wins other than the players?

Strategic gameplay is 100%, that includes forming alliances to take down a common opponent. And remember at the end of it all the two that formed an alliance have to decide who gets to take 1st so someone is going to screw over the other.

I also find it funny when tier 1 servers complain about double teaming when they have bought and destroyed WVW communities from the lower tiers.

(edited by PacoXI.7690)

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Posted by: Sororita.3465

Sororita.3465

How does it matter? Servers have always bought guilds to transfer to their server in order to win, how is buying guilds on other servers to attack the third server any different?

In this case its for tourney position, not just gold. It sucks but there’s nothing you can do about it.

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Posted by: BAITness.1083

BAITness.1083

How does it matter? Servers have always bought guilds to transfer to their server in order to win, how is buying guilds on other servers to attack the third server any different?

In this case its for tourney position, not just gold. It sucks but there’s nothing you can do about it.

It is worth fixing this misconception also. First, please list any bought guilds on any of the servers in this tournament. Also, the having guilds on other servers thing is something JQ tried to do in Season 1 as well. Unfortunately TC had some guild leaders that were far more receptive and dedicated to it.

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Posted by: blur.7905

blur.7905

I think there is many discussion regarding this. This will not help in the current problem we have. I am sure every server want to have chance to win. Sadly but understandable TC and JQ decide to team up and trade win.

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Posted by: blur.7905

blur.7905

Read what anet said about 2v1. They think it’s fair if some one has better coverage…

Can you provide the link?

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Posted by: SFShinigami.2015

SFShinigami.2015

If you really think that JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG then I’ve got some nice ocean front property to sell you in Orr.

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Posted by: kRAVen.4195

kRAVen.4195

The answer to the ops question is yes.

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Posted by: PseudoNewb.5468

PseudoNewb.5468

That is an odd one. Players decide who wins? Well, that is the point kinda. Players are responsible for playing the game and, as such, they always have influence on who wins. And as we see coordination is paramount in WvWvW. Whether it is a server fielding the best distribution of players, or if it is a group of servers that have enough discipline to get their players to work with a set of rules of engagement that are not enforced by the game.

If players have the coordination and discipline to control the outcome of the game, then they will reap the benefits of such control. That is simply the art of competitive tournaments. That is what WvWvW is about. At least that is all that really matters in the current meta/rules for this mode. All I see, are players being coordinated enough to maximize their potential outcomes. AKA playing to win.

What you describe is a symptom of fights not mattering. People playing to win, do not have to put a great amount of effort into winning fights, because good fights have a smaller contribution to winning that other, more influential aspects of the game.

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Posted by: Sororita.3465

Sororita.3465

It is worth fixing this misconception also. First, please list any bought guilds on any of the servers in this tournament. Also, the having guilds on other servers thing is something JQ tried to do in Season 1 as well. Unfortunately TC had some guild leaders that were far more receptive and dedicated to it.

Would you deny that, in the past, there has never ever been a server that has purchased guilds to come to their server for gold? I can recall a few guilds that were bought from lower leagues to higher leagues but the forum isn’t the place to say.

I’m not accusing either JQ or TC of buying guilds, im stating that whether it goes on or not, buying guilds or agreeing to communicate cross server, that until people have strong server loyalty this kind of thing will happen. The only way to ever make WvW a more even playing field then transfers and cross server alliances would have to stop, so that the tiers would even out and not fluctuate( remember sor’s implosion?) , that will not happen.

Whether you like this type of game play or not, it’ll either continue or die on it’s own, there’s nothing that you can get Anet to do about it. The matches are decided by us the players, they always have been.

Commander Starlight Honeybuns[BUNS]
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.

(edited by Sororita.3465)

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Posted by: blur.7905

blur.7905

If you really think that JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG then I’ve got some nice ocean front property to sell you in Orr.

I also think JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG. I play in BG and most of the time I see same for some time greater amount of player from JQ. Please provide prove to your claim. At sometime BG only have one full size team.

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

How does it matter? Servers have always bought guilds to transfer to their server in order to win, how is buying guilds on other servers to attack the third server any different?

In this case its for tourney position, not just gold. It sucks but there’s nothing you can do about it.

Are you serious? so lets say a guild have 50 players and each cost 200g it would be 10,000 gold are people seriously paying them that to transfer to their server?

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Posted by: BAITness.1083

BAITness.1083

If you really think that JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG then I’ve got some nice ocean front property to sell you in Orr.

I also think JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG. I play in BG and most of the time I see same for some time greater amount of player from JQ. Please provide prove to your claim. At sometime BG only have one full size team.

I think they mistake our float team for a full group on every map sometimes, which I guess is credit to the float. But yes, I believe that JQ and TC have equal coverage to BG this season, and that it is only equal when we count BG’s large PvE population that fortunately is coming to play. We saw how drastic the coverage difference is without that population pre tournament, where BG got beaten for months.

JQ and TC claiming that BG outnumbers them is really ludicrous.

Edit: and thanks tom for putting some numbers in the post above this. People that claim bought guilds usually have not thought about how absurd the claim is.

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Posted by: ykyk.2740

ykyk.2740

Can all the people trying to turn this into another BG propaganda versus BG hatemongering thread just get out, we don’t need to turn yet another discussion thread into a matchup thread that gets locked. Everything that needs to be said about BG on both sides has been said a billion times.

The truth is Anet cannot regulate this type of behaviour. Outside of fundamentally changing the mechanics of the game, if you allow 2v1s to happen on a micro scale (which everyone must admit, has to be allowed and cannot be avoided) then you have no way of preventing it from happening on the macro scale. It can’t be done.

The problem then is clearly to prevent a situation where it is beneficial to do such a 2v1 in the first place. Alliances are fragile, and especially so in a game with no infrastructure for diplomacy and players are able to do whatever they want. No server will subject themselves to a prolonged 2v1 if there is no incentive to do so.

Sadly this trainwreck of a tournament has exactly provided TC and JQ with this incentive, because we have a case where both servers can benefit from what is otherwise a terrible format for them. Why this has not happened in the other tiers I cannot say, but in Gold it is because we are the only 2 servers who can do this and improve our standing. DB and Mag are very outnumbered and can barely influence results, SoS has a comfortable 2nd place just by winning what they should and losing the remaining weeks, but JQ and TC can BOTH raise their positions significantly by colluding. The problem is not with Anet “allowing” or “disallowing” 2v1 behavior – the problem is that they have consistently failed to manage incentives. Ideally, the 2v1 “target” should change over time as different servers take the lead (this is 100% what Anet intended), but the 6-server swiss system in NA gold means that the winning strategy for both TC and JQ is to focus BG for the entire season (whoops, epic fail).

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Posted by: Zadarh.1932

Zadarh.1932

LOL, JQ will beat TC. I’m from TC and if you look back on the forums you will find in week 1 of the tournament players form JQ saying they are losing due to the fact they don’t have havokers.

Not saying it’s impossible for JQ to win, but it doesn’t take an act of philanthropy!

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Posted by: Moderator.6840

Moderator.6840

Hello,

Please note that we do not allow Match-up threads on the Guild Wars 2 forum. You can read about our forum changes here:
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https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Upcoming-Forum-Changes-to-WvW-Match-ups-Sub-forum

The WvW Community has created a new space for Match-Ups and other off-topic discussion. You can find the Player Community-run site here:
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