Guild Wars 2

Ok so i’m a new wvw player. I mostly played PVE and PVP.
In Maguma the verticality is awesome because you can use it and enjoy it with a glider.
But in WvW is it really usefull?

I am not experienced enough on that matter to throw affirmations and critics, but so far (even if the borderlands maps are gorgeous), the verticality seems like a waists of time that keeps me from joining my party or some locations.

Besides when I roam ont the new borderland maps, most times: i never really see roamers of the opposite sides to brawl with.
On the other hand, i logged in 30 minutes on eternal battlegrounds today, and brawled with at least 3-4 roaming groups. T’was fun.

So my point is. The verticality in wvw is only interesting (in the sens that a game should be fun and not mostly spending time to go from point A to point if you can take advantage of it (like with a glider). Otherwise it just is a useless disadvantage and waist of time In my opinion

Then again, there is apparantly going to be a “huge wvw revamp”.
I don’t know (or think) that it’s gonna change the architecture of the map. But the last PVE patch that changed fractals and rewards, made me hopefull that the wvw changes are gonna make me happy

I don’t like the verticality either. It’s as you say; no fun taking so much time to get around the map.

Yes and no. Unfortunetly, desert border is a few yes and a dozen no.

In some aspects, verticality can make a decently interesting area. North of hills is a great example. You got the high bridge, the wider field next to it, the tower straight north and the canyons into the camp. Every area seem to serve its own little purpose. Its not so bad in moderation.

But then you got entire west hills where you just look at it, raise your arms and go wtf is this kitten?!?. Verticality purely for the sake of verticality. It serves zero purpose. Its the same with pretty much all the lands surrounding garri, the deep canyon, the oasis, the entire western part of the map etc…

On alpine, the high ground at least served a specific purpose to either protect the keeps and towers (garri, hills, nw/ne tower) or it was in decent moderation (central area, to create some more interesting fights around caps). I cant think of any wasted space off the top of my head. Even the cliffs around hills you generally didnt travel could at least be used for siege. Well, maybe the jumping puzzle.

The Alpine map had the right proportion of verticality a map needs. The new map has too much vertificality. Simple as that.

Verticality is HoT’s gimmick feature. To answer your question: no, it has no place in WvW.

It could be possible fun only with 300 people battling…then you could use it to your advantage etc…but wvw as is now, its just makes people NOT want to go wvw even more

Some verticality is needed as a completely flat map would only server well for guild-vs-guild (gvg). Eternal Battlegrounds has enough verticality and the old Alpine borderlands was balanced as well. The new Desert BL has way too excessive verticality and gimmicks in general.

When a great number of players die not because of attacks but due to falling, you know you have a map that isn’t really meant for WvW.

I remember the first week after HoT, players said that Arenanet should have had gliders in Desert Borderlands.

The entirety of the Air keep area is annoying even if you own the jumping pads. You have the winding staircase things just to get to the western air shrine.

There’s too much PvE also. There’s the oasis event that lags everyone, a warg in the south for PVErs to get a WvW daily, the spider thing in the oasis, the wyvern in the northeast, the skritt in the northwest.

albotelho.2931:

The Alpine map had the right proportion of verticality a map needs. The new map has too much vertificality. Simple as that.

No

The Alpine map still had too much, specifically, the “zig-zag” or “switchbacks” located on the way between defenders waypoint and garison. Rest of it was kinda OK.

The one place where the switchbacks and verticality were used nicely was the old Hills keep, as it provided different approaches and combat options for both sides with just the right height for “death from above” style manuvers.

But the JP area, ruins areas, etc. those were just useless and only got in the way due to their excessive height. So overall they needed to reduce vertical aspects on the old map, instead they added even more of them and made them too high making them unusable for combat and GREATLY increasing the travel time.

In addition, vertical map features provide LOS cover and on the current map many times players simply can’t find each other (especially solo roamers and small groups) to fight with or against even if they are on the map, which greatly contributes to the current state of things.

So overall while vertical map features have some uses, in their current state they are overwhelmingly detrimental.

In WvW, no.
In open world, debatable.

I can’t stand the new Mario Wars 2 flavor of the game myself, but so long is it is optional I have no problem with it in PvE. I don’t want it in my WvW because when I am fighting the enemy the last thing I want is to be trying to figure out how best to maneuver a ledge while trying to stay on tag.

I look at it this way, just because you can make a replica of the great wall with manure it don’t mean people will like to play with it!

albotelho.2931:

The Alpine map had the right proportion of verticality a map needs. The new map has too much vertificality. Simple as that.

^ pretty much this. They have gone way over the top with the new map.

Nope.

What you have here is an HoT map with zero of the appeal of an HoT map. Of course, they wouldn’t allow gliding because they want people to buy the expansion to experience gliding, except all it really does is make people play pve to experience gliding.

ArchonWing.9480:

Nope.

What you have here is an HoT map with zero of the appeal of an HoT map. Of course, they wouldn’t allow gliding because they want people to buy the expansion to experience gliding, except all it really does is make people play pve to experience gliding.

Well in that case, gliding would only be available if you have the expension.
I mean PVE is already dead without the expension (death of dungeons, fractals reward need masteries). PVP needs the new elite to have a chance to win. Why not give an advantage to HOT owners in WvW?

Verticality in WvW maps just shows us that ANet management and developers teams do not play GW2 except for very short trial runs to see if things look nice.

YaYa.5879:

ArchonWing.9480:

Nope.

What you have here is an HoT map with zero of the appeal of an HoT map. Of course, they wouldn’t allow gliding because they want people to buy the expansion to experience gliding, except all it really does is make people play pve to experience gliding.

Well in that case, gliding would only be available if you have the expension.
I mean PVE is already dead without the expension (death of dungeons, fractals reward need masteries). PVP needs the new elite to have a chance to win. Why not give an advantage to HOT owners in WvW?

That’d just fracture what’s left of WvW as there is little incentive to buy the expansion.

It’d make more sense to make gliding available to everyone in a modified version of the desert bl to serve as a advertisement for HoT. Maybe if people enjoyed gliding, they might want to try it in the HoT maps or skin the gliders or whathaveyou.

Of course, the current trend runs against this; I suppose taking away people’s things and repackaging it as new content seems to be the popular thing to do.

Nikola.3841:

It could be possible fun only with 300 people battling…then you could use it to your advantage etc…but wvw as is now, its just makes people NOT want to go wvw even more

well the vertical axis for maps can be quite fun, but as ic server wvw mechanics does not support it, due low pop for to much verticality, no mechanics besides 100% speed uptime and run arround, pvd and use eles and necros(mostly) to wipe everything on walls, weird buffs that could be changed with more mechanics instead of “cheap buffs” and then the castles design.
The new BL is really good but is not rock solid, it has alot of issues.

The fire keep side is actually fine, minus the amount of dunes. The worst part of the map is the air keep side, which has too many obstacles and elevation, something that makes eotm an unbearable Map to play on, these are not supposed to be plain, flat maps though. The alpines were too small, easy to karma train, it had plenty of places to fight, but not many large spaces, unless it was sent or sw of garri.

I’d swap air for water, make it like bay 2.0 or something, surround the keep inner with water is again, rather than verticality and bridges.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

The worst part of the map is the air keep side, which has too many obstacles and elevation, something that makes eotm an unbearable Map to play on,

Just thought about what you said, and being in an EotM match a few days ago and even one today, I saw where the zerg v zerg happened, it always happens on the flat parts of the map or inside keeps or towers. Never on the “scared I’ll fall” areas on the map. Makes me wonder if ANet really watched any good fights in EotM and how they nearly never happen on the suicide two person walk ways like under red keep or on the bridges around blue keep in EotM.

Gliding in WvW maps would have been fun.

But as usual anet neglects WvW and didnt bother.

Versatility is a good replacement for things like embankment or stand bags (fox hole etc..) there no math for fire above target or blow targets in GW2 so using walls to get the “high ground” works well to make up for this. Being able to use the land to your favor in say “war” is a big advantages and how humans have been fighting forever so to have something like that in a “war like” game works out.

If you cant use the land you will be worst off the others who can and that should be a skill as a player you should work on vs other games where its just simply hid behind a wall or rush at some one in an open field with out any environment effect kind like like npc in mobas. Ask your self that are you an npc rushing head long into death or are you a human who can think of a way to out think the other humans?

Pretty sure this complaint #1 about the new BLs. Why add the extreme verticality without the gliders? It makes no sense to me. Either should have added gliders or made BLs less vertical – either would be better than what we have….

No, it’s not needed. The alpine BL’s had a good mix, id say even with the layout for the Alpines the verticality was a little too much. But overall it was bearable, i absolutely despised EotM, as did just about everyone in my guild. Now we have it as a BL map.

A queue of 50 for EBG and just tumbleweeds in the empty BL’s tell more of a story than we ever could about what players think of the new BL’s.

remove walls form towers and castles they add vertical complexity to the game, people spend time there.

/irony off.

Aeolus.3615:

The new BL is really good looking but it sucks for a WvW map.

FTFY

It is not needed and the main reason most ppl don’t like the map