So we have a scenerio that we have been seeing all night.
Zerg caps keep A and goes to cap keep B. A dead mesmer in keep A won’t leave and wait for rez by a hidden thief who bug into wall with stealth and wait till safe and rez the mesmer. Then mesmer port friends in to keep A and re-cap it again before zerg even cap keep B. Then zerg comes back for keep A and the same thing happens in keep B all over again. The result is the 40 man zerg is running between the 2 keeps the whole night by few invaders in each keep who use the thief/mesmer combo.
Maybe this is not new topic. Maybe it’s good for casual players like me who get to enjoy free karma/exp :P But it surely is boring. Feels like running COF p1 gold farming over and over. This is intended, then WvW will get old pretty soon.
So we have a scenerio that we have been seeing all night.
Zerg caps keep A and goes to cap keep B. A dead mesmer in keep A won’t leave and wait for rez by a hidden thief who bug into wall with stealth and wait till safe and rez the mesmer. Then mesmer port friends in to keep A and re-cap it again before zerg even cap keep B. Then zerg comes back for keep A and the same thing happens in keep B all over again. The result is the 40 man zerg is running between the 2 keeps the whole night by few invaders in each keep who use the thief/mesmer combo.
Maybe this is not new topic. Maybe it’s good for casual players like me who get to enjoy free karma/exp :P But it surely is boring. Feels like running COF p1 gold farming over and over. This is intended, then WvW will get old pretty soon.
As a mesmer, I know a great counter to this, that those 40 man zergs can apply!
A proper keep sweep!
Even just leaving one person behind (which out of those 40 people, SOMEONE will be willing to do), to keep an eye on the suspicious, non-waypointing body, would be an easy counter to this dilemma.
Really, if your zerg isn’t doing a tower sweep for both dead AND alive players, you deserve to have it back-capped.
Fellblade is best blade.
Leader and head forum barbarian for [roam]
Really? If someone doesn’t make a player waste hours of their time camping a dead mesmer who is waiting for a rez through the gate or for a thief to glitch through that makes them deserving of what happened?
To the OP,
Having a thief hide in a keep and rez a dead mesmer is intended. Having the mesmer die at a gate and get rez’d from the outside or get rez’d by someone exploiting in, that is not intended.
We share apocalyptic views, how comforting that we see it too.
Actually, there are people guarding the dead mesmer. I heard them map chatting that the thief would just disappear into the wall and reappear and slowly rez the mesmer. They cannot hit the thief somehow even with aoe and they keep killing the mesmer when he gets up. But the thief is persistent and keeps rez the mesmer. So the guards give up because they want to have free karma/exp too. No one wants that guard job. Why? Because it’s just a game and guarding has no reward and waste time. Plus, you need a lot of guards because experienced thief is nasty killing people. :P
Anyhow, I imagine there will be arguments for this kind of stuff. It’s fine. I am just saying this mechanism is twisted and waste people’s time. It’s not like people don’t sweep after cap and not awared of what happened. This actually dis-courages people playing WvW, which makes the ones who perform this trick happy of course. :P
A hiding mesmer in a keep is extremely dangerous as he or she could portal an entire army in. Every time one of our commanders takes a keep, the first thing they order is a full sweep. This is intended behavior and lots of fun, at least for the portaling team. It sounds like you learned this lesson the hard way. Next time, do better.
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
your problem isn’t the mesmer, your problem is the thief. if the thief is using an exploit to avoid being killed, report it.
also, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. if you want to be able to leave a tower or keep unguarded so you can join the karma train, then expect to lose it while you’re away. in fact, losing it is desirable because you can come back later and get more karma for capturing it again. why settle for getting karma once for an objective when you can recapture it a half dozen times and get karma every single time?
but if you want to win the match, that means taking and holding objectives, at least long enough to score points for it. that means leaving guards behind. usually guard duty is boring but in this case it sounds like your guards had something to do, which allowed them to continue to get karma and wxp even though they weren’t with the zerg.
We don’t have one yet, but we are working on implementing something to stop corpse scouting. That’s all the info I have right now though and there is no ETA.
We don’t have one yet, but we are working on implementing something to stop corpse scouting. That’s all the info I have right now though and there is no ETA.
You could just use this pic as a background for dead chatacters as an easy fix
It will also will help players to get more relaxed after they go down and the community will become more friendly and full of love.How can anyone get be mad at such a cute baby panda <3
A hiding mesmer in a keep is extremely dangerous as he or she could portal an entire army in. Every time one of our commanders takes a keep, the first thing they order is a full sweep. This is intended behavior and lots of fun, at least for the portaling team. It sounds like you learned this lesson the hard way. Next time, do better.
The issue is not about a hiding Mesmer as a proper sweep will usually take care of it. I actually enjoy such sweeps as they show me new hiding spots for my own Mesmer.
No, it becomes a problem when a dead Mesmer gets rezzed because of exploits. Two such exploits have been stated in this thread already;
1) Thief glitching through walls or under the floor.
2) Dead Mesmer at the door (inside keep) getting rezzed from the outside.
Personally I believe the best solution to remove this unwanted behaviour is by adding a forced respawn timer to defeated players. If a defeated player is not revived within 120 seconds, they should be teleported automatically to the nearest uncontested waypoint.
Valiant Aislinn – Aveneo Lightbringer – Shalene Amuriel – Dread Cathulu
Fojja – Vyxxi – Nymmra – Mymmra – Champion of Dwayna .. and more
Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU
A hiding mesmer in a keep is extremely dangerous as he or she could portal an entire army in. Every time one of our commanders takes a keep, the first thing they order is a full sweep. This is intended behavior and lots of fun, at least for the portaling team. It sounds like you learned this lesson the hard way. Next time, do better.
The issue is not about a hiding Mesmer as a proper sweep will usually take care of it. I actually enjoy such sweeps as they show me new hiding spots for my own Mesmer.
No, it becomes a problem when a dead Mesmer gets rezzed because of exploits. Two such exploits have been stated in this thread already;
1) Thief glitching through walls or under the floor.
2) Dead Mesmer at the door (inside keep) getting rezzed from the outside.
Personally I believe the best solution to remove this unwanted behaviour is by adding a forced respawn timer to defeated players. If a defeated player is not revived within 120 seconds, they should be teleported automatically to the nearest uncontested waypoint.
While it isn’t a forced respawn, (unless there’s some big secret I don’t know of) there isn’t a way for dead players to avoid the automatic afk kick. They will be forced out after however long that timer is (15 minutes maybe?).
While it isn’t a forced respawn, (unless there’s some big secret I don’t know of) there isn’t a way for dead players to avoid the automatic afk kick. They will be forced out after however long that timer is (15 minutes maybe?).
Actually, there is a ‘secret’ that apparently allows you to remain in the game indefinitely; even when dead.
Regardless, the auto-kick is not much of a solution. A forced respawn timer of 120 seconds would allow for everyone to continue playing; instead of getting trolled by people that refuse to release or certain individuals exploiting unintended game mechanics (like the rez-through-door).
Valiant Aislinn – Aveneo Lightbringer – Shalene Amuriel – Dread Cathulu
Fojja – Vyxxi – Nymmra – Mymmra – Champion of Dwayna .. and more
Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU
While it isn’t a forced respawn, (unless there’s some big secret I don’t know of) there isn’t a way for dead players to avoid the automatic afk kick. They will be forced out after however long that timer is (15 minutes maybe?).
Actually, there is a ‘secret’ that apparently allows you to remain in the game indefinitely; even when dead.
Regardless, the auto-kick is not much of a solution. A forced respawn timer of 120 seconds would allow for everyone to continue playing; instead of getting trolled by people that refuse to release or certain individuals exploiting unintended game mechanics (like the rez-through-door).
I wasn’t meaning to imply that the afk-kick is sufficient. Instead I was noting that people wouldn’t likely have to wait for “hours” to ensure the mesmer isn’t rezzed in that scenario.
If a forced respawn were instituted, I can’t agree with the suggestion it be anywhere near 2 minutes. There have been plenty of situations I’ve been involved in where it was more than reasonable for more than 2 minutes to pass between death and rez (for example, inner keep fight where the door has been repaired behind the invaders). I would hope for at the minimum a 5 minute timer on that.
A hiding mesmer in a keep is extremely dangerous as he or she could portal an entire army in. Every time one of our commanders takes a keep, the first thing they order is a full sweep. This is intended behavior and lots of fun, at least for the portaling team. It sounds like you learned this lesson the hard way. Next time, do better.
I think you might want to re-read the OP – he’s not talking about a hiding mesmer, he’s talking about a dead one staying dead, waiting for a thief rez. It’s a whole different ballgame there.
Personally, I think ANet should implement something like corpse burning – if there’s a dead body, you hit “F” over it, and it’s forced to waypoint. No more corpse spying, getting rezzed through a gate, whatever.
Edit – Just noticed Aveneo’s post saying basically the same thing. GMTA. ;-)
Eve Morrow, Mesmer, Eve Flamescythe, Ele
Tarnished Coast
We don’t have one yet, but we are working on implementing something to stop corpse scouting. That’s all the info I have right now though and there is no ETA.
Giving us the ability to force-respawn dead enemies? (Having it take the same time as the “Finish Them” would sound about right)
A hiding mesmer in a keep is extremely dangerous as he or she could portal an entire army in. Every time one of our commanders takes a keep, the first thing they order is a full sweep. This is intended behavior and lots of fun, at least for the portaling team. It sounds like you learned this lesson the hard way. Next time, do better.
The issue is not about a hiding Mesmer as a proper sweep will usually take care of it. I actually enjoy such sweeps as they show me new hiding spots for my own Mesmer.
No, it becomes a problem when a dead Mesmer gets rezzed because of exploits. Two such exploits have been stated in this thread already;
1) Thief glitching through walls or under the floor.
2) Dead Mesmer at the door (inside keep) getting rezzed from the outside.
Personally I believe the best solution to remove this unwanted behaviour is by adding a forced respawn timer to defeated players. If a defeated player is not revived within 120 seconds, they should be teleported automatically to the nearest uncontested waypoint.
Ah, fair enough.
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
We don’t have one yet, but we are working on implementing something to stop corpse scouting. That’s all the info I have right now though and there is no ETA.
This is easy. Make the screen go blank (no geometry/sprites) except player models. This way players can wait for a friendly help rez but will not be able to discern much information after death other than friendlies running around.
Of course I am sure your rendering pipeline makes no difference for PC’s and NPC and geometry so I propose you just expand your existing vignette border to be all black except for player models.
another option (potentially harder, depending on what the engine is capable of) is to ‘freeze’ the environment at the time of death, so you can continue to move the camera around, but you see things only as they were at the instant you died.
virtually all the visual benefit of the current design, but without the ability to scout.
We don’t have one yet, but we are working on implementing something to stop corpse scouting. That’s all the info I have right now though and there is no ETA.
Euh… how is corpse scouting the problem? Corpse scouting (in this scenario) is the one person of the 40 people that stays behind with the mesmer to guard it, no?
If you mean by ‘corpse scouting’ that the mesmer can not get revived inside an enemy keep, then that would be the solution, yes.
However, this is not one of the most broken mechanisms in WvW at the moment: the zoom cheat from SAB, windowed mode or dual screen is far more damaging to WvW, people are abusing this mechanism to shoot with ACs into places you should not be able to shoot in.
Tallis – Perpetual newbie – Tarnished Coast.
Always carries a towel – Never panics – Eats cookies.
Thx for all the replys ^^ I am just glad the dev is awared of it and will do something about it in the future. That’s good enough for me. Plus not ever player who knows tricks will implement it all the time. So if that happens too often, I will just go check out dungeons or super advanture box :P Thx~ (graverr’s baby ponda is cute ^^)
So we have a scenerio that we have been seeing all night.
Zerg caps keep A and goes to cap keep B. A dead mesmer in keep A won’t leave and wait for rez by a hidden thief who bug into wall with stealth and wait till safe and rez the mesmer. Then mesmer port friends in to keep A and re-cap it again before zerg even cap keep B. Then zerg comes back for keep A and the same thing happens in keep B all over again. The result is the 40 man zerg is running between the 2 keeps the whole night by few invaders in each keep who use the thief/mesmer combo.
Maybe this is not new topic. Maybe it’s good for casual players like me who get to enjoy free karma/exp :P But it surely is boring. Feels like running COF p1 gold farming over and over. This is intended, then WvW will get old pretty soon.
You have incredibly pathetic commanders and players if that happens, l2p.
Devon, and I mean this nicely, how remedial are you going to make WvW? We need MORE tactics and capacity to create them, not less. Please stop removing abilities, skills, and tactics. This isn’t sPvP nor do we want it to be, “In Zerg We Trust.”
One solution that I could think of to prevent downed scouting is to implement a “second kill” action when a player is dead. I haven’t played WoW for while, but I remember they had a feature to right click a dead player that will force them back to spawn. The advantage of the feature is that dead players would still have an option to wait for res if noone finishes them for the second time, yet preventing scouting if other players decide to send you back to spawn.
The only disadvantage I could see is that it would clog up the UI on WvW, and it will be another addition to the already heavily used “F” default key which is bad right now.
If thieves are really glitching through walls, I’d prefer a fix to that over a fix to corpses staying where they died.
Light of Honor [Lite] – Founder / Warmaster
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson
The fact that you said a thief “bugged” their way into the keep kinda spoils your argument. If it was a thief…he didn’t bug his way in. He was stealth hiding the whole time and a proper sweep could have revealed him.
It’s perfectly acceptable for a thief to hide, then res a mesmer, and have that mesmer portal people in.
Devon, and I mean this nicely, how remedial are you going to make WvW? We need MORE tactics and capacity to create them, not less. Please stop removing abilities, skills, and tactics. This isn’t sPvP nor do we want it to be, “In Zerg We Trust.”
Dead scouting isn’t a tactic.
Sure it is. Whether or not it should be allowed in the future is debatable, but the fact of the matter is that it exists in the game right now. I see no reason for players to refrain from using every tool in their arsenal. If ANet doesn’t like it, they can remove it.
