Issue with commanders...

Issue with commanders...

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Posted by: nikkor.6215

nikkor.6215

It would seem the commander tag/rank/ego boost is due more to a players ability to afford the cost rather than their ability to use basic strategy. Commanders call for pushes and what target… that’s pretty lame when it comes to leading a group.

Where are the feigns and pincers? Where are the Marathon crush maneuvers? These simple tactics are learned from watching approximately… 2 hours worth of History Channel on ancient battles. I’ve seen none of these things from commanders on either side and it’s just a gigantic protoss deathball advancing and pushing when the fake commander calls for it.

Perhaps commanders should have a basic battlefield IQ test before being able to have the tag.

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Posted by: MaiYun.3147

MaiYun.3147

well, maybe its time for you to become a “commander”??

because using strategy is sooooo easy while commanding a zerg group when everyone does their own things and chase 1 guy with 20 people…

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Posted by: colesy.8490

colesy.8490

Do you go on TS? It’s much easier to co-ordinate people there than by typing in map chat. Not saying that as a commander btw, just common sense.

Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj

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Posted by: nikkor.6215

nikkor.6215

so you don’t have anything positive to say, nothing that would help, and so you revert to the “you do it since you’re so smart.”

that’s the issue, commanders don’t work together at all, there’s little communication from the commanders and where to lure and where to trap…

which would add a huge awesomeness to the game if there were traps that were long lasting… say 15 to 30 minutes… then you could lay traps that would bust 75 person zergs with 10 people with good planning

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Posted by: Arcturus.5846

Arcturus.5846

1. Traps that deals significant burst will just be abused like Arrows Carts.

2. Commanders actually do work together. Hop on your local vent/TS or whatever. Unless you’re in one of those horrible servers, you will find cooperation betweent teams. (note guild commanders often stays un-pinned to avoid confusion for pugs and pug commander)

3. Common sense> RL strategy in WvWvW. In reality, you get limited supply and men. In virtual life, you never run out of them thus why zerging is the meta build. Imagine invading Rome with respawing armies. As a zerg, you can steamroll anything even when outnumbered by suicide rushes.

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Posted by: kishter.9578

kishter.9578

i feel like have 100g and BUY a commander book dont give you the right to be commander, that thing should be attached to a rank, you know! I really hate to follow a commander that dont know that “you cant lay treb in front of wall, or you 1st clean AC’s before lay cata in wall” a lot of stuff.

people whit a healthy credit car getting legendary, RNG skin and now they also hurting the only thing we have left, WvW.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that.

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

Let me address this “History Channel” commander issue.

1. Soldiers in any army in history were executed if they refused to follow orders. In GW2, they can tell you to go kitten off and ignore you.

2. Soldiers drill and train for months or even years to stay in formation…and follow orders. It’s a sign of a great guild/group if they manage to stay even in shout range of a commander.

3. In historical battles, terrain was the determining factor in most battles. Elevation changes only offer a slight range advantage in this game and there are no disadvantages for fighting in “bad” terrain.

4. Pincer movements were rarely a battlefield tactic, but usually a troop movement strategy to hit an exposed flank.
Flanking movements do work in GW2, but since we do not have to form battle lines (as armies did from 500BC to 1900AD) they are not as effective.

5. There is little to no “Fog of War” in gw2. Scouting and communication is instantaneous and you can see the enemy from long distances away, even at night.
The last 3000 years of military strategy and tactics rely upon the idea that the enemy will not be able to know where all your forces are, all of the time.

WvW victory, and good commanding, is based upon: a good understanding of game mechanics, clear communications, trusting and having trusted teammates, and a “never say die” attitude.
A calm demeanor and the ability to put yourself into the shoes of others (those following you, other commanders on your side, and the opponents) are also skills that help immensely.

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Posted by: snowaugar.1823

snowaugar.1823

Try commanding especially commanding pugs like yourself… guilds are co ordinated and so are most commanders how they.deal with their guilds and pugs like you is different needa keep it simple for dem puggies

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Posted by: nikkor.6215

nikkor.6215

there are ways to make traps so they can’t be abused:
1: Can’t build them while in combat, if combat is initiated while building it on the person doing it, trap is destroyed, supply is lost
2: invisible to the other team, and set to a trigger man who can’t do anything but either set the trap off or abandon it
3: traps are instakill for anyone within it’s reach, no rally, you’re down and must respawn
4: trigger man can be anywhere on the map
5: traps hurt all players, even friendlies

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

Anyone who has ever tried to command pugs/randoms (which is completely different to commanding a guild), particularly if they aren’t all on Teamspeak, will tell you that is quite literally impossible to get people to follow instructions, at least enough of them with the level of coordination to put serious plans like that into effect. Soldiers have to obey orders, players don’t. Many players don’t even speak the same language.

You can watch all the history documentaries you want, you can read all the Sun Tzu, Caesar and Bonaparte you like. It is all 100% worthless in a video-game.

A good commander doesn’t need to know about flanks and pincers and traps. A good commander DOES need to know how to keep the interest and morale of his players up, or else they either ignore him or log out. That means good communication, not loosing your temper, keep providing goals that are achievable and rewarding. Knowing how Napoleon won Austerlitz is worth sweet eff all compared to that.

But you just keep on being an armchair general. You don’t need to bother getting a tag and giving it a go, you already know you’re better than all the rest.

PS. I’m not saying there aren’t any useless commanders out there, because there absolutely are. But anyone bemoaning the lack of feints or pincers or traps from commanders, quite frankly, doesn’t have a clue what they’re talking about.

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

(edited by Ragnar.4257)

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Posted by: nikkor.6215

nikkor.6215

yeah, there is truth to needing moral boosting from the commanders, but that’s not all of it. there has to be tactics especially from the worlds that don’t have the numbers… tactics will beat a zerg all the time… and a commander that demonstrates this once, will have the loyalty of the players for a LOOOONG time.

but again, you don’t have anything positive about it to say so you result to insults. pathetic

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

Right, because you have plenty of positive things to say, and never resort to insults.

Perhaps commanders should have a basic battlefield IQ test before being able to have the tag.

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

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Posted by: GamerToukotsu.4219

GamerToukotsu.4219

yeah, there is truth to needing moral boosting from the commanders, but that’s not all of it. there has to be tactics especially from the worlds that don’t have the numbers… tactics will beat a zerg all the time… and a commander that demonstrates this once, will have the loyalty of the players for a LOOOONG time.

but again, you don’t have anything positive about it to say so you result to insults. pathetic

This isn’t always true. A fortified defensible area will not always be saved by a small amount of players vs a large zerg, just as it cannot be taken by a small army vs a large zerg.

The game is imbalanced completely towards players just needlessly sticking together, not rewarding anyone with a small player population. Tactics only gets you so far, and honestly Trebs deal too little damage to a wall. They should deal a substantial amount of damage to wood/paper walls, a little less to stone and even less to metal, but it shouldn’t take 10 minutes of constant trebbing to take out a wall, this is where the imbalance lies, whenever a large zerg can pour supplies from flipping camps into a wall to literally keep you there for hours on end and getting no where.

Illusory Ally [TFD]
Illusionary Ally [TFD]
Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Naffy.1493

Naffy.1493

yeah, there is truth to needing moral boosting from the commanders, but that’s not all of it. there has to be tactics especially from the worlds that don’t have the numbers… tactics will beat a zerg all the time… and a commander that demonstrates this once, will have the loyalty of the players for a LOOOONG time.

but again, you don’t have anything positive about it to say so you result to insults. pathetic

This isn’t always true. A fortified defensible area will not always be saved by a small amount of players vs a large zerg, just as it cannot be taken by a small army vs a large zerg.

The game is imbalanced completely towards players just needlessly sticking together, not rewarding anyone with a small player population. Tactics only gets you so far, and honestly Trebs deal too little damage to a wall. They should deal a substantial amount of damage to wood/paper walls, a little less to stone and even less to metal, but it shouldn’t take 10 minutes of constant trebbing to take out a wall, this is where the imbalance lies, whenever a large zerg can pour supplies from flipping camps into a wall to literally keep you there for hours on end and getting no where.

This. You should be able to trab a wall down at least as fast as you can ram a door down.

Tree Dink – Sylvari Guardian
Os of NSP

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Posted by: Omnitek.3876

Omnitek.3876

Commanding ppl not on team speak is like hearding cats….

Come run with me if you want feints, pincers, engulfs ect… I only do it when needed (out manned) and I am always in contact with at least 4 commanders (most on other maps).

Don’t bother if you don’t want to join TS.

A L T S
Skritt Happens

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Posted by: Runehand.9368

Runehand.9368

You aren’t getting on the VOIP server to hear the plans and commands.

And you want to be a backseat driver citing the History Channel?

Ok.

Now we’re talking about the realism of how fast a treb should eat through a wood, stone, or metal wall in a game where we can play little gremlins, every breast is perky, and arrow carts are spitting out about 1000 lbs of arrows a minute.

Best thread ever.

Zherbus – Yak’s Bend
Bookahs on [AciD]

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Posted by: danielrjones.8759

danielrjones.8759

Not to insult nikkor, yes there are many tactics that can and should be used. It goes back to people not following orders, which you seem to not understand. If you feel you can make an army out of pugs that will follow your commands and execute accordingly…. bottom line prove it post it. Otherwise saying its the inability of some commanders to execute these is unwarranted. You may understand military tactics. appears you fail to understand an mmo.

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Posted by: Phlogus.2371

Phlogus.2371

OP troll much? seems successful. Good bait, personal attacks on peoples efforts, intelligence and references to barely relevant historical tactical maneuver.

Command in this game is conditions based. Commanders must understand enemy and friendly conditions read them and execute the best they can with forces available ( willing to follow, able to fight etc). All of that must rest on a firm understanding of the game mechanics, and what you can realistically expect from the force you have available. Tactics, communication and strategy will have a place once you understand what you are doing.

Phlogustus Male Char DD Ele
Molen Labe Female Human Necro
Devonas Rest – Black Rose Legion -CF4L

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Posted by: Ahmrill.7512

Ahmrill.7512

You guys realize that some commanders with pins aren’t actually trying to lead? They are simply using the ONLY in game system to coordinate multiple groups or guild groups together.

I’ve often seen a Commander pin for multiple guild groups roaming around and most likely in their own voice server. People flock to the pin then complain when the commander is not communicating. Until we have a better system to run private guild squads… we will continue to have “bad” commanders.

Ahmrill
Proud member of [NORD] Nordvegr Guild
Jade Quarry

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

You want feigns, pincers, and commanders talkin come to dragonbrand. You gotta get on Teamspeak though cause I won’t be calling feigns or pincers in chat, just takes too long to type. I’ll give you ambushes too.

I try to get in touch with commanders on a map to lead multiple squad attacks and it actually works out too. I’ve been able to flip either hills or bay by splitting up forces with another commander.

Oh for your History Channel stuff… here’s some key differences in the strategy
1. IRL death is absolute. In GW2 death is just a temporary setback.
2. Time: Strategy in GW2 happens in a matter of minutes. Strategy IRL takes days even weeks to plan
3. Intelligence: Intel IRL is actually better than in GW2. Irl you have commanders talking to each other, satellites and spies to relay enemy positions, scouting, etc. A good amount of engagements that happen only occur under strong intel. You don’t want to walk your regiment into an ambush cause then you’d have to send all those death notes home to parents. Intel in GW2? Well it’s about the same. You have other commander’s positions and status if they talk, you might have spies telling you where enemy positions are. You don’t have much else. Intel in GW2 is actually in line with Intel that commanders on a medieval battlefield might have had access to.
4. Chain of command: Real life has this better than GW2. IRL if you disobey your CO you get consequences even including death in some situations. In GW2 your troops will turn on you in the drop of a hat the moment you start to struggle and there is nothing you can do about it. You can have all the strategy and plans in the world but no one has to listen to you.
5. Coordination and training: IRL the level of training a soldier gets is really high. They end up being the best they can be. RL military will follow commanders orders without question and to the letter. In GW2: to put it in the words of a previous poster, you’re lucky if you can get your guild to be within shouting distance of your tag. You’re really lucky if they just stick to your tag and not wander off. For militia (pugs as some call em) you’re lucky if they just stick to your tag. God forbid there’s an upleveled thief roamer in sight because you’ll lose half your force as they chase that guy down to gank him. BTW: Give any objective you don’t want to attack a very wide berth and ESPECIALLY stonemist castle. If you pass something you don’t want to hit you can be assured your militia will get sucked into the gravity well of the gate and start attackin it.

6: The Art of War applies to GW2 more than you would realize. Once you read it (and there’s cliff notes versions of it) and you command you’ll realize what you read in there.

Lastly from your post:
“It would seem the commander tag/rank/ego boost is due more to a players ability to afford the cost rather than their ability to use basic strategy. … Perhaps commanders should have a basic battlefield IQ test before being able to have the tag.”

If you’re more diplomatic about your point it might get across better. Lumping all commanders together into the “ego boost” and “basic battlefield IQ test” category should expect to get you more negative responses than positive ones.

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: spconder.2489

spconder.2489

Untill the day comes where an in-game voice chat system is made that ALL players can hear, you will never see any tactics in WvW more advanced than “Gather on the blue dorito.”

If I wanted a game where real, historical tactics mattered, I’d go play Mount and Blade (Mainly because not doing so gets you killed, fast.). Trying those same tactics in GW2 is a logistical nightmare.

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Posted by: Steve Whitley.8359

Steve Whitley.8359

A (good) commander (imo) has got to have a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of folks running with him or her and has to have an idea (generally) how the opposition is going to attack and utilize that info to the server’s advantage.

If you find yourself running with someone who you’ve never played with, who isn’t talking to you, who’s shouting commands and who’s constantly wiping you day after day, chances are they haven’t learned the role quite yet. its not as easy as it looks, but having a forgiving (to some degree…) and supportive zerg can help even a terrible commander get better, and help your server get better as well. I think thats the point of playing together right?

best way to help a terrible commander learn some humility is to simply not run with them. can’t do much harm w/ no zerg. they may even eventually get it and change their tactics… or not. either way its a win for you and possibly the server.

Old Janx // [THG] Jade Quarry / Seafarer’s Rest
secessit viri bellatores

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Posted by: Fact.5908

Fact.5908

People tend to not follow dumb commanders.

Fact [IRON] – Sanctum of Rall
Former Commander of TL and the Ascension Alliance

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

My view of the commander tag is its most commonly used to gather up all the inexperienced players on the map and attempt to give them some direction. The only real contradiction to this is maybe a guild who tags up to do the same thing. I don’t think the issue is the commander. WvW has a majority of casual players and its hard to get organization and skill out of casuals.

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Posted by: SilverLeaf.4790

SilverLeaf.4790

People tend to not follow dumb commanders.

Exactly. We are free to make choices. If you don’t like how the commander is commanding, do something else.

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

We need yellow guild commander tags assigned/provided by guild officers. These would only be viewable by the guild.
Map-wide blue doritos need to be free, and attainable through wxp compilation. It wouldn’t be a perfect system, but there’s no way to entirely root out the idiots. Emphases on guild commander tags.

Joining a squad should also merely transparentize other commander icons so that squads can still see what’s going on elsewhere on the map.

~ Kovu

Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief
Fort Aspenwood. [CREW], [TLC], [ShW], [UNIV]

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Posted by: nikkor.6215

nikkor.6215

no, they don’t even try… i’ve been on the voice, i’ve read the map chat… it’s all the same “group up and giant death ball”

never had another server use anything other than a death ball against us

and if these people can’t command with a kitten , why are they commanders? because they could afford the cost of it?

Not to insult nikkor, yes there are many tactics that can and should be used. It goes back to people not following orders, which you seem to not understand. If you feel you can make an army out of pugs that will follow your commands and execute accordingly…. bottom line prove it post it. Otherwise saying its the inability of some commanders to execute these is unwarranted. You may understand military tactics. appears you fail to understand an mmo.

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Posted by: Merendel.7128

Merendel.7128

no, they don’t even try… i’ve been on the voice, i’ve read the map chat… it’s all the same “group up and giant death ball”

Operating on the militia level yes giant death ball is about all you can communicate through text based chat. It takes too long to type out more complicated calls and half the folks wont even read those calls. Normaly you can convince them to push when the blue tag pushes and pull back with it(or die if you dont) but complicated tactics not so much.

On the other hand I’ve seen decent combinations of militia and guild fights where the pugs were mostly just following the tag while the guildies were responding to TS calls, often in parallel to the pugs but striking out with a better response time.

One recent fight I was involved in we were assaulting bay on an enemy borderlands from the south. Defence was to well entrenched to aproach the walls so we set up trebs in vale with a commander there leading about half our forces. The other commander and my guild leader lead our guild and some of the milita around to the north side to try and draw off defenders. After a few pushes the enemy came out in force to try and wipe us in the open field, outnumbering us 2-1. We retreated back twards the sentry point between bay and garrison, guild portal bombed back while the commander turned the pugs back around. Killed a good number of the enemy but were pushed back agian. This was repeated twice more and were were considering a full retreat when the southern commander, who had been listening ot the fight on TS, called out that he was OTW. about 30 seconds later after a fighting retreat to the sentry second commander slamed into the enemy zerg from behind while we turned around and hit em from the front. Wiped out a good chunk of the enemy zerg. While the enemy zerg was runing back we managed to break down the southern gate/wall and fighting resumed inside the outer walls. None of that level of coordination would have been posible through map chat so we dont even try.

That said however I do think they need to add in another level of commander for use at the 2-4 group level. IF the pin is only visable on the map to members of the same guild, squad members, and other commanders we might see less of the guilds taging up just because they have 1 or 2 more people than a single group could hold and leading the random militia members off every which way.

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Posted by: Tekyn.5376

Tekyn.5376

The fact that the commander tag stirs up this much controversy is proof enough that it should be removed from the game.

No player has the right to tell another player what to do.

“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist

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Posted by: chronometria.3708

chronometria.3708

We commanders do use strategy, but it tends to need multiple active commanders to do so. A single commander trying to split his force will simply find half of them wander off or refuse the command. A badge is needed at each location you want troops to be present at.

So, the other day, for example, I was laying siege to green keep. We had two commanders, each attacking a different area of the keep, to split the defenders. At one point we noticed enemy groups bringing in supply from their borderland, so we dedicated one commander to being a “blockade team” to cut off spawn and another fought in the keep as the siege force.

When two commanders work together, the results are usually impressive, but there are so many obstacles to this that it seldom happens. Not to mention the troops who openly question the wisdom of proposed tactics and call for the easy option.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

A small guild group can do more damage than a commanders zerg…

But a side note: Commanders are only trying to help out their server, they could have spent the 100g selfishly on themselves instead of trying to help other people.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: BBMouse.6510

BBMouse.6510

People really should not compare WvW with real life military command structure. In real life military, life is at stack and soldiers are paid. Guarding is actually the better job than fighting at the front line with respect to life threating level.

In WvW you have the choice to follow the commanders you like. No obligation for anything. However you obtain the commander title really does not matter that much since players know the best who is good to follow.

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

The fact that the commander tag stirs up this much controversy is proof enough that it should be removed from the game.

No player has the right to tell another player what to do.

This attitude is entirely wrong. Most commanders don’t tag up because they want to tell other people what to do, they tag up because they don’t want their server to lose all their stuff simply because nobody could be bothered to tag up. And it’s a fact that, with no commander and no guild groups on a map, a servers performance significantly drops.

I know you’re your own special unique individual who can’t possibly have your freedom and creativity inhibited by someone else. You’re also not one of the people getting stuff done for the server. Following commander doesn’t make you a sheep, it makes you useful.

Honestly, the number of times I’ve had people say either to me or to other commanders:

what, you think you’re better than us? what gives you the right?

To which I say:

no, I don’t think I’m better, and I don’t think I have a right. But if I didn’t tag up, nobody else would, and we’d lose all our stuff on the map. So, your choice

That’s why I bought my tag, and that’s why I use it. Not because I think I’m awesome and that everyone should do what I say, but because I hate seeing my server fall apart when there’s no other commanders about.

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

(edited by Ragnar.4257)

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Some people have a tendancy to read to much from a commander tag when in fact, it doesnt really mean anything.

Yes there are really good commanders that use it to the max, employing excellent strategy, tactics in 30+ man guild groups or even zergs.

But that’s not really needed. Most of the time, people just need a gathering point. He just have to lead the pugs or they would be scattered all over the map doing nothing good at all. A few unorganized individuals cant do all that much.

This is really noticable when you get in the situation when there is a guild commander running around in a raid but no other commander on the map. It dont work that well. You need that secondary pug commander but his skill doesnt really matter. The one that step up is more often than not target for ridicule than anything else, by those that think they are better but dont step up. Cowards I say.

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Posted by: Wryscher.1432

Wryscher.1432

I’ve never really understood this so much. Everyone talks about tactics and common sense. The commanders aren’t the only ones who need it. The cattle need it too. As a non commander I use my strategic common sense and don’t follow the crappy commanders. Not that I have seen any I would not follow lately but there have been some.

Think of these bad commanders as helping you. They are leading the band of people not smart enough to not follow a horrible commander. They probably don’t have any supplies and just press 1 a bunch.

[Sane]-Order of the Insane Disorder
Melanessa-Necromancer Cymaniel-Scrapper
Minikata-Guardian Shadyne-Elementalist -FA-

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Posted by: Steve Whitley.8359

Steve Whitley.8359

my favorite commander paradigm is the way its implemented in the battlefield series. one commander on the map (shown with a star like icon), and many squad leaders (shown to the commander with number icons). commander talks to squad leaders about objectives (including voice), squad leaders communicate with squad about objectives and squads there’s squad/team and all chat. obvously its different here. there’s also quick menu’s off the map (right click objectives) that commanders can assign to his squads, and squad leaders can assign to their squads, and commander / squad leader / and squads get rewarded for accomplishing the objectives.

its sort of like what we have (if parties were visible to the commander) now, just more formally structured, and a deeper hierarchy.

Old Janx // [THG] Jade Quarry / Seafarer’s Rest
secessit viri bellatores

(edited by Steve Whitley.8359)

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Posted by: Erinshaw.8035

Erinshaw.8035

I am a defensive commander most of my time in wvw. I repair the walls put up and click the siege. I take back the supply camps and generally try to support and back up the map commander. My Dorito goes on and off to gather a group around me then off it goes again. Whilst my group are doing all this everyone else is attacking and getting their badges. I personally get very few in this role. I have run almost 2.5k hours on this toon alone most of it in wvw.

On yaks bend we use a combination of guild voip and our free alliance/guild server. Most of the time we are organized and cross talking to everyone. I do not for the life of me understand what the earlier posters are on about except troll. I bought my tag with help from my guild and have contributed to other tags for officers / members who want to give commanding a go.

In my experience it is not the tag that counts it is the team behind the tag talking in voip that collectively tries to get the job done. My primary purpose is to gather a group hit and have fun for however long you are on. If a new commander is giving it a go I try and support him by whispers and general chat.

If there was no Dorito system nothing would be different same names same voices would lead the attack/defense because they have earned the respect of their server. All the tag does is shows where you are and nothing more, People are free to follow or not.

The ability to run as an organized zerg is dependant on sticking together, knowing your place in the group, knowing when and how to buff, when to push when to retreat, portal or mow the lawn. Without voice comms and a basic understanding of what is required a zerg dies. If you do it right you can wipe numbers greater than your own.

Most commanders run education events to practice these things with small guilds and unaligned players during the week. All of the larger guilds will support the smaller. You can run the Alliance tag when you own guild is absent or doing fractals and feel part of the server defending their homeland.

Most commanders place the majority of siege very often bought with their own currency. They are also some of the most active players in the game I usually play 12 hours a day on average.

Most commanders give knowledge and experience freely and explain why what when where at an appropriate time. Some things work some don’t today but it will in an hour or two. You have to listen to understand that.

On Yaks we have a rule of three. If a commander makes a call three others will support that call in chat and start moving. We sometimes make false calls in chat text as our friendly neighbourhood spies like to relay messages. Unguilded low level toon running with zerg or parked in a tower etc. You have all seen them and a growing part of the game week by week. So if you rely on text chat only you would think we are crazy sometimes. Often strange toons text worst commander ever when we track them down they are a spy from another server and in the citadel at lvl 3-4.

The things I hate about being a commander sometimes

People do not carry siege or supply. You drop a piece and only you have supply to put on it. Once used people do not go and get more but would rather peu peu the gate or worse still the wall. The difference between 2 and 4 rams can be the difference of a take or wipe.

Some call out zerg at nw camp. You deploy forces to find there were 5-6 try always to give numbers.

Watching the map and being a sentry is a no reward but vital job to do and get yourself an arrow cart and get a few bags or put off the attack.

Some port and defend and do it well but run off again before repairing up it takes so long to do solo

So before you complain about the Dorito and 100g please think what else it entails. I believe anyone can/should be a commander if they want to. If you think that you can do it better do so and stop your qq. However most want to follow and they choose who to follow—— a commander that earns the server respect.

if you are on Yaks then you are family first and we embrace everyone and will support anyone to do what is best for them and our family.

The Older Gamers (TOG) wvw guild leader

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Posted by: Radio Isotope.3045

Radio Isotope.3045

Nikkor, This is the GW2 forum. This is where people go to tell you they are better than you, and crush all your ideas. This is where all the people who fail at real life go to feel big about themselves. Don’t expect a warm reception. Just post then ignore. If Anet likes the idea they will adopt it, if they don’t they wont. That simple. Not worth arguing with these people. You wont get anywhere, just angry.

Edit: I’m actually one of the few good commanders you speak of wanting to hear from. The sad truth though, When you try to do things like that you lose ALOT of your followers because most WvW players get confused when you throw real tactics at them. I’m Military Trained, but people don’t want that. They want the same build everyone else is using and the same Zerg tactic that everyone else uses.

(TLE) The Legendary Eternum, Devona’s Rest
Guild Founder

(edited by Radio Isotope.3045)

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

Nikkor, This is the GW2 forum. This is where people go to tell you they are better than you

Edit: I’m actually one of the few good commanders.

k.

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

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Posted by: snowaugar.1823

snowaugar.1823

Nikkor, This is the GW2 forum. This is where people go to tell you they are better than you, and crush all your ideas. This is where all the people who fail at real life go to feel big about themselves. Don’t expect a warm reception. Just post then ignore. If Anet likes the idea they will adopt it, if they don’t they wont. That simple. Not worth arguing with these people. You wont get anywhere, just angry.

Edit: I’m actually one of the few good commanders you speak of wanting to hear from. The sad truth though, When you try to do things like that you lose ALOT of your followers because most WvW players get confused when you throw real tactics at them. I’m Military Trained, but people don’t want that. They want the same build everyone else is using and the same Zerg tactic that everyone else uses.

If ur trying to lead pugs with advanced tactics I’m surprised your haven’t gone nuts can’t even get pugs to might stack..

(edited by snowaugar.1823)

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

It would seem the commander tag/rank/ego boost is due more to a players ability to afford the cost rather than their ability to use basic strategy. Commanders call for pushes and what target… that’s pretty lame when it comes to leading a group.

Where are the feigns and pincers? Where are the Marathon crush maneuvers? These simple tactics are learned from watching approximately… 2 hours worth of History Channel on ancient battles. I’ve seen none of these things from commanders on either side and it’s just a gigantic protoss deathball advancing and pushing when the fake commander calls for it.

Perhaps commanders should have a basic battlefield IQ test before being able to have the tag.

OK there are more than 1 kind of commander. The commander you speak of is bad commander. But not all commanders are bad. plus being a commander is not easy. So take a bad commander and give them a hard job yes they will be big time fail. But dont try and goup all commanders that way. maybe your server has a lot of these guys on it. If you want to see what good commanding is move to a better server.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

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Posted by: Edward.7362

Edward.7362

nikkor.6215:

Please provide us with a video footage as an example.

Of course, I expect you to be tagged as a commander and execute all mentioned maneuvres. You don’t have to do them all in one battle, it can be a stream of examplary battles where you show us what you suggest in practice.

Thank you.

Desolation EU
Shandaara – elementalist, Liiana Iceclaw – warrior
Sir Edward Ironwing – guardian, Infinius Black – necro

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

I fail to see what that would prove to anyone.

He’s not an amazing commander until he has led a zerg over a cliff to their deaths anyway.

Any military training is also overrated. Just have someone to look up to and mimic. Like Megatron.

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Posted by: Raf.1078

Raf.1078

OP, until you get your own dorito and try commanding, you have no idea of what you are talking about. History channel?….bah….you are comparing soldiers to citizen militia with attitudes.

Pincer movements…righhhttt. Sometimes its like trying herd cats. Especially with peeps not on voice..or with agendas of their own. Constant PM’s from would be armchair generals etc…

Guild groups on voice with shared goals is really the only way to ge the kind of coordination you are talking about.

PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon

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Posted by: snowaugar.1823

snowaugar.1823

Nikkor, This is the GW2 forum. This is where people go to tell you they are better than you, and crush all your ideas. This is where all the people who fail at real life go to feel big about themselves. Don’t expect a warm reception. Just post then ignore. If Anet likes the idea they will adopt it, if they don’t they wont. That simple. Not worth arguing with these people. You wont get anywhere, just angry.

Edit: I’m actually one of the few good commanders you speak of wanting to hear from. The sad truth though, When you try to do things like that you lose ALOT of your followers because most WvW players get confused when you throw real tactics at them. I’m Military Trained, but people don’t want that. They want the same build everyone else is using and the same Zerg tactic that everyone else uses.

Just realized your the dr commander who can’t get past a spawn camp!!

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Posted by: Raf.1078

Raf.1078

A small guild group can do more damage than a commanders zerg…

But a side note: Commanders are only trying to help out their server, they could have spent the 100g selfishly on themselves instead of trying to help other people.

Try building rams or golems to take a keep or tower with a small group? “Oops…stay here and hit the door while we run run back for supply”.

Its works if no one is on sentry duty. But only then.

Zergs have their uses. They are their own supply camp…can spot build siege, ram the doors down..spot build on inner…and take the keep. Sentries or no.

PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon

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Posted by: Zosk.5609

Zosk.5609

A commander is a 100 gold price tag in order to create squads/warbands.

People who treat it as if it is something more are the problem, honestly…

If you take the stance that you are a squad and ASK people to help and INFORM them of your actions…there is no room for argument or endless debate (other than trolling).

If you take the stance that the whole map owes you allegiance just because you put on a tag and try to FORCE people to follow and browbeat them… well you are just creating drama.

Sadly, in this and similar games, the latter seems to be the norm. Trying to catch flies with vinegar and ending up turning map chat into a debate club every single day…

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Posted by: Raf.1078

Raf.1078

The system is self regulating in any case. No matter how you acquired your dorito…if you are good commander? Players will flock to you in droves.

If you are a bad commander, your groups will dwindle away to nothing.

PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

Try organizing a feint with PuGs before criticizing. I’ve found that you’ll lose, at a minimum, 10% of your group every time you go near a hard target and don’t engage.

You’ll type “we’re going to tap the door here and go on to the other tower” and at least 4-5 people will stay at that door and just spam ‘1’ for 5 minutes before they ragequit because you left them.

That’s the hardest thing in this game right now, getting people to realize that it would take a single player (if he was not molested or the door not repaired), 3 hours to take down a door. 10 people, it would still take 18 minutes, 20 = 9 min and so on.

I’ve taken a keep with 3 people before…it required monumental non-presence from the enemy and a lot of luck even still.
It took roughly an hour and a lot of supply runs. (this was back when 3 people would not trigger swords).
This is plainly impossible now so people should stop trying to do this.