Guild Wars 2

Gab Superstar.4059:

You get four times as much WXP for killing the Veteran Warg or Harpy than killing a Dolyak.

Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

no, this is not silly. it’s insane.
i understand the need to encourage pve players to enter wvw but give them more wxp for non wvw related events (killing the veteran ice wurm it’s not very profitable for you server) it’s, as i said before, insane.

Yeah, my image may not be completely accurate on what exactly now gives WXP and what doesn’t – I just made it to illustrate a point. ^^

I think we are all in agreement that trebbing a target from the distance for a prolonged time, or escorting dolyaks, or repairing cannot be rewarded with currency (since those are usually easy and low-risk tasks). We saw dolyak escorting getting botted to hell and back and we don’t need that again.

But handing out WXP for those tasks would have been perfect. It would have been a way to reward meaningful contribution to your server’s endeavors without opening the risk of it being botted (since you cannot pull money out of it in any way and the time constraints/limits I suggested would make progressions exclusively with those tasks so incredibly sloooooooooooooow).

But when I read that killing some noob-bait veteran NPCs (wurm, harpy, warg, …) gives out higher rewards than actually going after an important goal (enemy supply deliveries) I really don’t understand ANet’s game designers.

I do think you should get some for escorting yaks (I have no idea if it actually does or not) but I still feel like such an important job goes unrewarded.

I say meh, the bag farm last night was spectacular. Give it a few days and the newness will wear off and all will be back to normal.

Gab Superstar.4059:

You get four times as much WXP for killing the Veteran Warg or Harpy than killing a Dolyak.

Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

^ this. Doing a fairly quick round of all the pve events in a borderland gets you about 750 wxp, not counting any supply camps you flip along the way. I guess the current influx of pve’ers in wvw are happy.

Ruprect.7260:

I say meh, the bag farm last night was spectacular. Give it a few days and the newness will wear off and all will be back to normal.

Because people stopped escorting dolyaks all by themselves with no intervention by Anet.

Esprit Dumort.3109:

Lag is everywhere.

Worse than I have seen in the game since the Karka event.

Snickers.9570:

Ruprect.7260:

I say meh, the bag farm last night was spectacular. Give it a few days and the newness will wear off and all will be back to normal.

Because people stopped escorting dolyaks all by themselves with no intervention by Anet.

Lol, we always escort dolyaks. If you aren’t your doing it wrong.

There are a lot of valid points here. I must admit last night I was on that Karma train, too. Yes, Loot bags! Yes, saving coin. Yes, lots of karma, etc etc. WvW Rank Points will come in time and this train WILL DIE down, but not all the way down.
A great valid plea from some of our players request wVp changes, such as getting wxp for escorting yaks, succesfully defending keeps/towers, etc. By not doing so, yes, it created the zerg train and has also created a major unbalanced playstyle for which WvW was not intended (or is it by Anet?). Last night, in the train, if i did not tag the Lord, I did not get a loot bag. If you fall behind, you will not get squat unless you are lucky enough to reach the circle in time. No rewards there in a mega-zerg. Yes, if you get in the circle, you will get that 300 wxp. But where is the fun in that where all you have to do is run and make sure you get there? Mindless.

Along with some changes that are needed with this new ranking system, I’d like to add yet another way of how folks in WvW can earn wxp:

Healer class builds .. if you are mostly healing and reviving, where is the wxp reward there? Of course, if you are lucky enough to tag a few enemies you may get something. But yet to see any wxp for actually doing SUPPORT for my fellow mates in battle. In a huge mega-zerg vs mega zerg I don’t have time to tag enemies. The most I can do is lay down support AoEs, and try to tag an enemy and start mashing auto-attack in order to help help healy my mates even more. Sure, it may help a few stay alive for another second or two, but either after wiping the enemy or we get wiped, I’m lucky to get one loot bag or three, maybe even a few wxp. (/sarc)That will get me my +5 to carry supply soon! (/sarc) Where’s the wxp for playing a support class?

There are MANY ways anet should look into as far as rebalancing WvW for wxp. This is just one. This madness will go one for some time until it dies down. But until this ranking system and the wxp gets a revamp, it will never die down to what it was like before.

I feel like I must be playing a different game from many of you posting in this thread. My chat channel was filled with positive comments indicating the masses were having a blast.

Last night was one of the best times I’ve had in WvW. Many huge epic fights that were mostly lag free.

The best was a battle for the hills garrison. The defenders wiped us on our first attempt with a valiant defense of the lord room. We rallied a second attempt and finally succeeded.

The battlefield is more fluid and less static resulting in a lot more fighting of other players than in the last few months. The new system for rendering and the removal of culling has significantly improved game play.

I for one hope it does not die down as I’m here for great epic fights. Any rewards or the score come in a very distant second.

I appreciate the effort, but it’s human nature wanting to be the best and acquire higher status, in this example via fancy armor, titles and whatnot.
It is simple psychology and we’re born this way like just pretty much every other animal, the information should be relatively easy to find using google. Note however that his mentality is of course more dominant in males, since we have an urge to compete with eachother (which is roughly 90% of the WvW population) and show off (to mate).
Therefore people will ALWAYS use the most efficient way of gaining status and or an advantage.

Today this happened:
I had a 1v1 against a necromancer, no other players were involved. We fought and I won, he wasn’t bad and it was a pretty exciting fight. I received 11 WXP – Fair enough.

Later I saw a bunch of guys from my own server ganking up on an enemy, i think it was a 4-5v1. They downed him easily, and JUST as he was about to die I hit him once with my GS auto-attack and received 44 WXP.

This basically sums up how insane the calculations for WXP are. I am not exaggerating, i literally only hit him once in downed mode, and I had not fought him at any earlier point.
The system is completely screwed and people are zerging like never before. This however means that the titles will not have any relation to peoples actual skills.
I’ll try to use this for my advantage by killing people with higher title-ranks, since they will rage so much when losing a 1v1 against a simple Invader.

Edit:
This patch is not ALL negative though. Culling is basically gone, and i must say i’m pretty impressed with the result. My post seems very negative, but i really want the best for WvW, and with this change im basically just waiting for Custom Arenas.

Yea I’ve seen groups of people chasing 1 guy for WXP the way you can get it is not quite right, but looking at the abilities they seem to cater towards smaller groups and scouts the hype will die down eventually.

I read some of the list and said, "That’s me… that’s me… that’s me… "

“Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy escorting/speeding up dolyaks.

Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy getting into/staying behind to defend an objective against the enemy.

Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy staying behind and trebbing SMC from Durios for 45 minutes.

Let’s not forget that players are unrewarded for ordering upgrades and punished for doing so by the exorbitant upgrade fees."

Though let’s add another….
Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the Ele standing strong against the wall, defending against enemy siege with their trusty Focus for hours.

DeWolfe.2174:

I read some of the list and said, "That’s me… that’s me… that’s me… "

“Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy escorting/speeding up dolyaks.

Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy getting into/staying behind to defend an objective against the enemy.

Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the guy staying behind and trebbing SMC from Durios for 45 minutes.

Let’s not forget that players are unrewarded for ordering upgrades and punished for doing so by the exorbitant upgrade fees."

Though let’s add another….
Still the guy running with the zerg gains a better reward than the Ele standing strong against the wall, defending against enemy siege with their trusty Focus for hours.

I don’t do these things for reward I do them to help our server win. Why do you need rewards for this stuff. I regularly defend our main camp on reset night, sometimes for hours. I use my ele to block whenever I can. I escort dolyaks to get them to their destination so we can upgrade . Not sure why not getting a reward makes any difference. We did not get a reward on Monday but I still ran with the zerg that night.

For me nothing has changed. some nights I will defend and some nights I will run with the zerg.

I’ve heard of the new patch and got back from a 3~4 months break of GW2.
What i saw?
The same ZergxZerg, now with wannabe legends pve players who want to have 8723628763872 in Wrank.
Guards still a joke, seriously any half decent player can solo all the npcs in a keep/tower/camp with easy and you guys will really make them even weaker?
And of courses who have the night squad will rule the match.

And commander titles still being sold for gold? I saw 4 commanders who had no idea of what they were doing, herding the zerg to enemy territory when our towers had NO upgrades…

I think all the talk about W3 being important for Anet was false, since all they did was changes that only ppl who NEVER HAD PLAYED W3 WOULD DO.

Make the keeps/towers more defensible? make camp harder to take? Nah i will just add improvements to make the already easy to kill npc even easier.

Guess i will keep waiting for TESO.

I have never quite understood the obsession with reward.. I have even seen plenty of people say they play for “fun,” but then go on to complain about lack of rewards in a given area (or by comparison). Everyone plays the game for fun, they just find it in a plethora of different, subjective ways. I.E. its not a “bad” thing to have your fun by getting rewards, but not everyone is looking for that. I know I am not, at least not from GW2. I like Path of Exile for my “so much loot my brain explodes” needs.

I have also never quite understood trying to change the game to fit ones own personal agenda, at the expense of others.

I fully support if Anet were to implement other game modes though, or maybe even a bit more of a hybrid system (wherein player kills somehow count towards the point tally). If they were to implement a mode exactly like WvW, but where the point tally is determined by group sizes clashing and player kills, I would be on that like white on rice! As it stands though, I just dont see the need to fulfill my own selfish desires at the expense of others who are playing the game as its intended and designed. Much less insult them, or degrade them.

Its probably just me though. I play to have fun just like literally everyone else, and do so within the mechanics of the game. All games have their limitations, but I just dont see the need to warp the games original intention (whether it is “bad” or “good” is entirely subjective) to suit my own needs. I suit my own needs by playing essentially within the rules in place, to win (winning is fun for me), and also just hope for further diversification of game modes. I try to make suggestions, etc. that are in line with the vision of the game itself, instead of trying to change it entirely. Tends to be more successful, and less disappointing.

What I dont find being fulfilled in one game, I will find in another. No single game has ever been able to cover all the bases. So.. I play more than one game!

I am a strange one though…

Divinorium.8952:

I’ve heard of the new patch and got back from a 3~4 months break of GW2.
What i saw?
The same ZergxZerg, now with wannabe legends pve players who want to have 8723628763872 in Wrank.
Guards still a joke, seriously any half decent player can solo all the npcs in a keep/tower/camp with easy and you guys will really make them even weaker?
And of courses who have the night squad will rule the match.

And commander titles still being sold for gold? I saw 4 commanders who had no idea of what they were doing, herding the zerg to enemy territory when our towers had NO upgrades…

I think all the talk about W3 being important for Anet was false, since all they did was changes that only ppl who NEVER HAD PLAYED W3 WOULD DO.

Make the keeps/towers more defensible? make camp harder to take? Nah i will just add improvements to make the already easy to kill npc even easier.

Guess i will keep waiting for TESO.

I think you are seriously over estimating what 5% is when it comes to damage taken/done. I do agree about the commander tags though.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Divinorium.8952:

I’ve heard of the new patch and got back from a 3~4 months break of GW2.
What i saw?
The same ZergxZerg, now with wannabe legends pve players who want to have 8723628763872 in Wrank.
Guards still a joke, seriously any half decent player can solo all the npcs in a keep/tower/camp with easy and you guys will really make them even weaker?
And of courses who have the night squad will rule the match.

And commander titles still being sold for gold? I saw 4 commanders who had no idea of what they were doing, herding the zerg to enemy territory when our towers had NO upgrades…

I think all the talk about W3 being important for Anet was false, since all they did was changes that only ppl who NEVER HAD PLAYED W3 WOULD DO.

Make the keeps/towers more defensible? make camp harder to take? Nah i will just add improvements to make the already easy to kill npc even easier.

Guess i will keep waiting for TESO.

I think you are seriously over estimating what 5% is when it comes to damage taken/done. I do agree about the commander tags though.

Like i’ve said it’s not about the 5%… is the fact that NPCs were already easy to kill. In fact one of the problems were that a player could solo a camp. 5 players could flip the whole map in less than a hour by themself. TOWERS/CAMPS already were easy to take.

And what they do? make the NPCs even weakers, block one of the few ways a smaller group of defenders could hold a bigger attacker team.(catapult behind the door)

It’s almost the same of saying “hey guys give up in defending if you have smaller numbers”

They should have added a skill who when maxed halves the incoming damage when using cannons/oil.

They should have added a skill that creates a aura and make guards around you 3~4 times stronger.

I mean things that would actually help in the W3. Break the zergs.

But 5% more damage in the weakling npc? like seriously?

PS: Next W3 patch Note:

“New Wrank skill: Rage of the Champion: 100% more damage in rabbits and eagles.”

Your average player cannot solo a camp lol. I have never seekittenman group flip an entire map (where do you play – you have no opposition????)

I have successfully defended a tower/keep with 5-10 ppl numerous times agains full 50+man zergs, it’s called siege – use it.

Why is seen – a – 5 kittening?

Ruprect.7260:

Your average player cannot solo a camp lol. I have never seekittenman group flip an entire map (where do you play – you have no opposition????)

I have successfully defended a tower/keep with 5-10 ppl numerous times agains full 50+man zergs, it’s called siege – use it.

A average player can solo a camp. In fact any pve player know how to do that: DON’T RUSH IN LURE THE MOB OUT.

Night squad/attacking a borderlands map for you.(before they react you can flip half map)

And as i’ve said now without the catas behind the gates i want to see you defend a tower/keep.

You can’t lure one mob out, once you attack any one of them they all come running. Not sure when this was changed but I soloed a camp the other day and I had to take them all on, I tried to lure one out, one came running alone as soon as I hit it they all came running.

Night capping didn’t occur to me, good call.

The catas don’t really make that big of a difference, a few well placed superior AC and ballista’s can hold off a zerg for a long time. I have had and run into towers/keeps with so many AC’s that your HP’s just drain in seconds, there are places where you can cover the entire ground with AC fire where there is no place for the invaders to go.

Ruprect.7260:

You can’t lure one mob out, once you attack any one of them they all come running. Not sure when this was changed but I soloed a camp the other day and I had to take them all on, I tried to lure one out, one came running alone as soon as I hit it they all came running.

Night capping didn’t occur to me, good call.

The catas don’t really make that big of a difference, a few well placed superior AC and ballista’s can hold off a zerg for a long time. I have had and run into towers/keeps with so many AC’s that your HP’s just drain in seconds, there are places where you can cover the entire ground with AC fire where there is no place for the invaders to go.

Partially true. you can lure them to get out of the range of activity of most of the group(when they wield their weapons and begin to regenerate) and take the mob 1×1 this way.
The mobs npcs in camps/towers doesn’t work as a single mind. when you hit one he alerts the others, make sure to hit them AFTER they are out of the range to alert the others and you can kill them in 1×1.

AC? LoL. ACs have 2 situations:
1 he is close to a edge so it and the guy using it can be AoEd
2 he is out of range of most aoe skills(elementalist will sttil hit it) but he can’t hit ppl close to the wall. in both cases the defense using AC will fail.

I have never had a problem with properly set AC’s not being able to defend. The only issue becomes when they can setup catas outside of range of ac’s. But then you just build a ballista.

I think one of the biggest issues is people do not know how to properly place siege.

I will try the pulling 1×1 out of a camp tonight, I am curious, I have never been able to get them far enough away where they don’t pull everyone else or you lose agro.

Ruprect.7260:

I have never had a problem with properly set AC’s not being able to defend. The only issue becomes when they can setup catas outside of range of ac’s. But then you just build a ballista.

I think one of the biggest issues is people do not know how to properly place siege.

I will try the pulling 1×1 out of a camp tonight, I am curious, I have never been able to get them far enough away where they don’t pull everyone else or you lose agro.

video showing how it’s done.

And about the Sieges in towers more like the players you play against don’t know how to deal with siege.

Since since catapult have MORE range than ballistas. (cata has 4000 ballista has 3000)

And as i’ve said before, AC or damage everywhere and get aoe or place out of aoe range but ppl close to the gate/wall can’t by hit.

Divinorium.8952:

Ruprect.7260:

I have never had a problem with properly set AC’s not being able to defend. The only issue becomes when they can setup catas outside of range of ac’s. But then you just build a ballista.

I think one of the biggest issues is people do not know how to properly place siege.

I will try the pulling 1×1 out of a camp tonight, I am curious, I have never been able to get them far enough away where they don’t pull everyone else or you lose agro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjpyJrXjpA

video showing how it’s done.

And about the Sieges in towers more like the players you play against don’t know how to deal with siege.

Since since catapult have MORE range than ballistas. (cata has 4000 ballista has 3000)

And as i’ve said before, AC or damage everywhere and get aoe or place out of aoe range but ppl close to the gate/wall can’t by hit.

How do you find a camp with no enemies around? lol It is rare for that to happen on my server. But good info, I will be trying to solo a lot more unupgraded camps now.

As far a AC’s, it is dependent on the tower/keep. There are towers that it is possible to place siege that cannot be hit by AoE and still hit those close to the wall if you know how to aim it. There are others where this is not possible and they are harder to defend. There are very few spots where you can place a cata outside of range of a ballista. Other than reset night it is also pretty rare to come across a tower/keep that is not upgraded.

Ruprect.7260:

Divinorium.8952:

Ruprect.7260:

I have never had a problem with properly set AC’s not being able to defend. The only issue becomes when they can setup catas outside of range of ac’s. But then you just build a ballista.

I think one of the biggest issues is people do not know how to properly place siege.

I will try the pulling 1×1 out of a camp tonight, I am curious, I have never been able to get them far enough away where they don’t pull everyone else or you lose agro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjpyJrXjpA

video showing how it’s done.

And about the Sieges in towers more like the players you play against don’t know how to deal with siege.

Since since catapult have MORE range than ballistas. (cata has 4000 ballista has 3000)

And as i’ve said before, AC or damage everywhere and get aoe or place out of aoe range but ppl close to the gate/wall can’t by hit.

How do you find a camp with no enemies around? lol It is rare for that to happen on my server. But good info, I will be trying to solo a lot more unupgraded camps now.

As far a AC’s, it is dependent on the tower/keep. There are towers that it is possible to place siege that cannot be hit by AoE and still hit those close to the wall if you know how to aim it. There are others where this is not possible and they are harder to defend. There are very few spots where you can place a cata outside of range of a ballista. Other than reset night it is also pretty rare to come across a tower/keep that is not upgraded.

I just recorded it, off-time hour so the borderlands are kinda empty.

Not completely true. in fact most of ppl still don’t know how to aoe properly.

As a example of the “you don’t know how to aoe” you can do damage to gates/walls with the aoe of the cata, it don’t need to be a direct hit. So you don’t need to have clear sight of the gate/wall.

And seriously what amuse me the most is how, apparently not just the Anet didn’t improve the W3 but the W3 community looks like didn’t have improved at all.

As i’ve said i took a break of 3 months without playing GW2. These “tricks” worked at that time and works now. but most of the ppl don’t know about that…

PS: i think it’s the “zerg effect” ppl are just so attached to playing with 40+ groups that they don’t need learn how to effectively use the things. Who need to be skilled when you have numbers?
And that’s not pointed to you Ruprect, it’s pointed to “all the W3 players” in fact most of these things and a lot of others “tricks” i’ve learned in the beta, still working, was always there yet is so rare to see ppl using it, even being a tide changer thing, that is almost like ppl just stopped trying to improve

Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.

Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.

It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.

I don’t think they stopped trying to improve they just stopped using useless tactics. Soloing a camp is not something you are going to use everyday. The servers in our tiere are constantly improving, we see it every week.

What you were seeing yesterday was nothing but ppl bag/wxp farming. It was new and novel. My guess after this week reset things will get back to normal. It is not all zerg v zerg, we regularly have a few small groups running around defending and taking camps and or scouting.

Liquid.9672:

I’d say this video is fitting given the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIoGp3R7ZI

Best video i ever seen about wvw

Ruprect.7260:

Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.

Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.

It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.

In fact my account is in the GoM 7 tier but this didn’t stop me from taking the account of a friend who bandwagonned to the Jade Quarry.

PPL use more siege? Yes.
PPl Now use scouts? Yes.
Still always ending in 2 big zergs.

ErlendR.6107:

Liquid.9672:

I’d say this video is fitting given the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIoGp3R7ZI

Best video i ever seen about wvw

Looool, that was a great video.

Divinorium.8952:

Ruprect.7260:

Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.

Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.

It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.

In fact my account is in the GoM 7 tier but this didn’t stop me from taking the account of a friend who bandwagonned to the Jade Quarry.

PPL use more siege? Yes.
PPl Now use scouts? Yes.
Still always ending in 2 big zergs.

The whole point of WvW is to have large armies battle it out. Of course this is going to end up with large armies battling it out.

I can’t picture an army of 5 going to a castle in ancient times and taking a castle. Obviously this is not real but it is based on the premise that you need an army to siege a castle/tower/keep. Camps on the other hand are meant to be taken by small groups.

Straegen.2938:

That video is kittening awesome!

I didn’t like zergs before the patch since it was impossible to tell if it was a zerg. After the patch, the visual scale of a zerg adds a nice element of excitement particularly when two zergs smash into each other. Our small team had a great time last night killing people at the tail of a few zergs.

This^^^

Being able to see both armies standing there in formation and then clashing in a huge battle added to the excitement. It is nice to be able to gauge army sizes now, especially your own.

I dont get the complaint. There were large zergs before the patch, at least on JQ, whats changed???

If its a complaint about lots of new people out in wvw having fun I dont get it.

Ruprect.7260:

Divinorium.8952:

Ruprect.7260:

Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.

Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.

It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.

In fact my account is in the GoM 7 tier but this didn’t stop me from taking the account of a friend who bandwagonned to the Jade Quarry.

PPL use more siege? Yes.
PPl Now use scouts? Yes.
Still always ending in 2 big zergs.

The whole point of WvW is to have large armies battle it out. Of course this is going to end up with large armies battling it out.

I can’t picture an army of 5 going to a castle in ancient times and taking a castle. Obviously this is not real but it is based on the premise that you need an army to siege a castle/tower/keep. Camps on the other hand are meant to be taken by small groups.

That’s the problem. right now a defense will have a bad/impossible time with any half good attackers, you know using the AOE to damage the gate/wall while the cata is behind something so the enemy can’t use the ballista to kill your cata it’s something that i could call “usefull”.

But right now the tower and the keep have the same difficulty to take of a camp.

The wall still punishing the defenders, seriously tell to the ppl of your party/server to hug the wall and watch and laugh while the defenders can barely aoe you when you can aoe them.

You can say “make good use of sieges and you can defend a tower” but guess what? the same is true to the camps and even some places in the map.

Npcs of towers SHOULD BE A PROBLEM. Not just as strong as a deer in the forest. and guess what? now they are weaker because you can buy a buff to make so.

Bleh… The game still being resumed in “strenght is numbers” doesn’t matter if it is in the open, in a camp or in a tower.

Kilger.5490:

I dont get the complaint. There were large zergs before the patch, at least on JQ, whats changed???

If its a complaint about lots of new people out in wvw having fun I dont get it.

Guess the problem is the lack of changes…

KrisHQ.4719:

I appreciate the effort, but it’s human nature wanting to be the best and acquire higher status, in this example via fancy armor, titles and whatnot.
It is simple psychology and we’re born this way like just pretty much every other animal, the information should be relatively easy to find using google. Note however that his mentality is of course more dominant in males, since we have an urge to compete with eachother (which is roughly 90% of the WvW population) and show off (to mate).
Therefore people will ALWAYS use the most efficient way of gaining status and or an advantage.

Today this happened:
I had a 1v1 against a necromancer, no other players were involved. We fought and I won, he wasn’t bad and it was a pretty exciting fight. I received 11 WXP – Fair enough.

Later I saw a bunch of guys from my own server ganking up on an enemy, i think it was a 4-5v1. They downed him easily, and JUST as he was about to die I hit him once with my GS auto-attack and received 44 WXP.

This basically sums up how insane the calculations for WXP are. I am not exaggerating, i literally only hit him once in downed mode, and I had not fought him at any earlier point.
The system is completely screwed and people are zerging like never before. This however means that the titles will not have any relation to peoples actual skills.
I’ll try to use this for my advantage by killing people with higher title-ranks, since they will rage so much when losing a 1v1 against a simple Invader.

Edit:
This patch is not ALL negative though. Culling is basically gone, and i must say i’m pretty impressed with the result. My post seems very negative, but i really want the best for WvW, and with this change im basically just waiting for Custom Arenas.

Excellent post. Agree with everything you have said.

This point is always true in these sorts of games
“This however means that the titles will not have any relation to peoples actual skills.”

People behave how they are measured and are smart enough to find the most efficient way of getting to whatever goal they are set as you stated. Often that “way” is very different to what was intended. This is why any “ingame” rank or title system in these games is always flawed and is rarely needed and best avoided. However they do meet a fairly implicit need amongst gamers to a greater or lesser degree.

If you invest time making the game interesting and enjoyable to play then there should not be a reason to need to achieve some virtual rank. The issue is though that real life and virtual life get mixed up in MMO’s and some folks feel the need to express a rank in a game if they feel some lack in real life. Its deeply ingrained psychology and we are all prey to it at some level.

The best pvp MMO’s I have played end up bestowing rank via word of mouth or reputation in the gamer community at large. Unfortunately this is not possible at the individual level since names are hidden in WvW. I can understand why Anet did this but it then also means their community demands recognition in another way and hence we end up with a flawed system since it is not regulated by the community at large and its open to abuse.

Ruprect.7260:

Divinorium.8952:

Ruprect.7260:

Everybody knows you can hit the gate and wall with splash damage from a cata at the same time if you aim it right. Well at least I hope everyone does.

Well for the most part unless you are in a low tier server you are never going to see an empty camp long enough to solo the camp. So most ppl don’t bother, it really does no good. These are not tricks they are common knowledge that is no longer useful. As far as siege goes.

It sounds to me like you play on an empty tier and have no idea what real competition is like. It’s easy to run into an empty bl and find a zerg and say huh nothing has changed.

In fact my account is in the GoM 7 tier but this didn’t stop me from taking the account of a friend who bandwagonned to the Jade Quarry.

PPL use more siege? Yes.
PPl Now use scouts? Yes.
Still always ending in 2 big zergs.

The whole point of WvW is to have large armies battle it out. Of course this is going to end up with large armies battling it out.

I can’t picture an army of 5 going to a castle in ancient times and taking a castle. Obviously this is not real but it is based on the premise that you need an army to siege a castle/tower/keep. Camps on the other hand are meant to be taken by small groups.

I’m sure you didn’t see people building castles and towers with in siege distance either.

The OP’s assessment is wrong. “Karma training” or pvdooring does not net you nearly the same amount of world xp as just killing the enemy. This encourages zerg mentality. However, it also depends on your enemy. If they are ikittenerg, then you need a zerg to fight them (most of the time) With the new patch, there has been a huge influx of players, so the vast majority of the zerg are pugs. So, they just follow the commander. We don’t have control over this. Only if our commanders go for the objectives do we do so, so it also depends on what your commanders value. I know Anet has stated many times that they are trying to discourage zerg behavior, but the world xp only encourages it. The funny thing is, if you are better than your enemy, even if their zerg has more numbers, your enemy is only feeding you world xp. If we can kill 100 players with 50, then thank you very much. So, if you’re ikittenerg, and find yourself still getting wiped most of the time, keep in mind you are giving your enemy lots of world xp. Maybe you should try something different. Then maybe your enemy will change and we can get back to concerning ourselves with PPT and score.

Gab Superstar.4059:

You get four times as much WXP for killing the Veteran Warg or Harpy than killing a Dolyak.

Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

No, it’s down right dumb and it ruins the game.

Also, the unsung acts in WvWvW should be getting some WXP as well. Escorting Yaks (even if they never get attacked), repairing and building up defenses in keeps, staying in camps as a lookout, etc, etc, etc.

Samhayn.2385:

I’m sure you didn’t see people building castles and towers with in siege distance either.

Correct. More insanity in the game design. Certain Keeps are worthless to build up because you have to own all the others around them if you’re in treb distance to make it worth it.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Cry more please. This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to wvw and fools still try and make it look bad. Anet have done a terrific job with this patch, wvw needed more participation and now it has it.

1 aspect of the patch was well done, the removal of culling, the rest of the patch is the typical anet stuff up.

Progression was needed but not in the form its been implemented, and how long will people stay if its just PvDoor all the time and when it becomes clear exactly how unrewarding the progression system is?

Baelnorn.5710:

(Since for some weird reason I can’t edit my post right now…)

Why didn’t they add 1 WXP for each silver you spend on upgrading an objective?
Why didn’t they add 1 WXP for each 10k HP you restore to structures with repairing?

Yeah, ^^ THIS would have really been a good addition to WvW. I really like this idea. It could be refined or whatnot, but the core idea is great.

Liquid.9672:

I’d say this video is fitting given the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIoGp3R7ZI

ahahahaha, hey, i want that siege piece now (finally I don’t need to portal golems around anymore!Love the video!

Ruprect.7260 …. you asked about why people desire a reward. Think of it not so much as a reward but, being valued. When you consider a Zerger is now going to become empower beyond a builder, that won’t make the player feel like a valued customer.

I have a feeling this update is going to disenfranchise quite a few in the end.

OMG I LOVE THAT VIDEO!!!!!!!! Choo Choo!!!

It isn’t an issue. If it was an issue, the majority of the players would be for changing it to stop the zerging, but based on what I’ve seen, 99% of wvwers role with zergs, meaning they problem support it.

Now I agree with you guys(except it will calm down over the next week or so if we are patient), but we are a minority here.

The point is that the game mechanics should reward positive/expected behavior and not punish it. That’s the reason why in sPvP you get glory/rank points for being proactive about attacking/defending points, rezzing allies, doing the optionals (killing the keep lord, killing svanir/thatotherguy, destroying the trebs, communing with the buffs, etc).

Can you win a sPvP match without doing the optional target? Sure, been there done that. Still you get rewarded for doing them and not just farm the center point.

But in WvW this “positive reinforcement” for optional but beneficial tasks is completely missing. The game only rewards the absolute basics and many additional tasks go unrewarded. Actually, the game indirectly punishes you for doing those since you’re missing out on rewards you could have gotten if you stuck with the zerg.

And that’s the big problem here. The game mechanics should guide you to become a better player that is contributing more to your side’s chance of success as time goes on. But with the current reward mechanics a new player only learns that the most rewarding cause of action is:

• run with the biggest group for ease of invader kills and safety from ganking
• kill veteran wurm/harpy/warg (and probably the champion spirit, the overgrown grub, etc)
• flip as many camps/towers as possible

The game mechanics don’t incent escorting dolyaks, staying in a tower to treb a keep’s walls for a long time, or scouting enemy objectives.

Heck, the fact that WXP is character bound pretty much completely killed my interest in GW2. Just thinking about having to grind the same stupid kitten 3 times (4 times, but haven’t played my engineer much yet) makes my stomach churn. :S

I really like the new system but I think it is a really neat idea to give better rewards for defending structures rather than capping them.

“CrimsonNeonite.1048
Yea I’ve seen groups of people chasing 1 guy for WXP the way you can get it is not quite right, but looking at the abilities they seem to cater towards smaller groups and scouts the hype will die down eventually.”

Lol what i’ve been doing yesterday evening is find a zerg get myself killed a couple of times (Outmaned so no armor repair) then run back and take some shots at the zerg. There’s bound to be at least 10-15 break off and chase you, get as far away as possible staying in range so they keep following and get yourself killed again. LOL 1 wxp for a 2 to 5 minute chase, . Run back repeat. They are to stupid to recognize what’s going on rofl and free game for any small scale group while they try to get back to their zerg.

Synda Raines.1836:

“CrimsonNeonite.1048
Yea I’ve seen groups of people chasing 1 guy for WXP the way you can get it is not quite right, but looking at the abilities they seem to cater towards smaller groups and scouts the hype will die down eventually.”

Lol what i’ve been doing yesterday evening is find a zerg get myself killed a couple of times (Outmaned so no armor repair) then run back and take some shots at the zerg. There’s bound to be at least 10-15 break off and chase you, get as far away as possible staying in range so they keep following and get yourself killed again. LOL 1 wxp for a 2 to 5 minute chase, . Run back repeat. They are to stupid to recognize what’s going on rofl and free game for any small scale group while they try to get back to their zerg.

Maybe they dont care about the wxp points, I’d rather play to have fun and points are just bonus. However there are better reasons not to chase one guy, thats just dumb.