Guild Wars 2

but they had to put in a score so people could win and lose. They had to build walls so we get to “siege”. How fun, lol. Attacking and defending walls. They had to give us Npcs that are about as powerful as wet toliet paper so that any group that does breach the walls has an easy time of it taking the objective, leading to rampant zerging.

It’s not really player vs. player at all. The players are an inconvenient obstacle blocking the way to the points and the win. When open field PvP does happen it is over very very quickly and then there is such a long long way to run.

I have some suggestions. I hate suggestion posts btw and apologize for making one.

1) Take out the gates to the castles
2) Put in NPCs that can actually kill something.
3) Install rez points so players can get back into the battle.
4) Reset the score every night and zero the point contribution of points already held, or better yet abolish it entirely.
5) Encourage open field PvP via WvW specific healing skills, rez skills, damage mitagations, and revamped open field map objectives and rewards.

If I could find a group that enjoyed worldwide openfield PvP I’d wager I could care less about those 5 points. But, somehow, a Master appeared and, thru game design, defined what was fun and what we should be playing for. And, it’s not on a small scale. This isn’t a game of golf that occupies five hours of someone’s afternoon, or a set of tennis that occupies maybe 1, or even a game of football for a few hours of afternoon delight. This is a 24/7 game for a week of dominence that burns out players’ psyche and lives with mind numbing, discouraging, tactics and gameplay. How many players actually enjoy that lol? That’s rhetorical for those who missed it, omg.

Of course the argument is, “Well, you don’t have to play.” That’s a macho postion for sure. Well, I’ll take that macho position and raise you. I say, “Kick the Master off of our sandlot.” Of course I can’t do that lol. Oh well.

Point is, the success of the game hinges on player satisfaction. I am getting tired of siege warfare, many do, have been since about the second day. I want more opportunities to Play vs. Players. Let the score keepers of the world retreat to a small corner of forum land and be out of sight and out of mind. Handicap the zerg. Let players play.

I disagree with kitten near EVERY thing this post suggests. Point # 5 could be discussed as rational but very hard to implement as bunker classes are a force now… You are an sPvP’er? This aspect of GW2 is about point and map control.

Take out the gates? – Sure just zerg right in!
More Rez points? – more zerging right in! destroys some tactial distance features
Reset score every night? – How about make it every 15 mins! more sPvP!

Alot of ppl enjoy the base of what WvWvW is right now..it IS the most popular part of GW2…EX: down over 300k points several nights many ofus just log in..and start a fight.. take a tower have a battle..and not even worry about the score. It’s part of the Meta game but score doesn’t determine if it’s fun..

Seriously you are not getting what WvWvW is about OP..your not satisfied? really chief..sPvP is what you describe you want in all your suggestions.

1) No.
2) No.
3) No.
4) No.
5) Okay, this point has some merit.

You want to take out gates so that zergs can simply stroll into a tower/keep and take it without defenders having the time to come and defend it? Your counter to that is adding strong npcs? I don’t know about you, but I like the pvp aspect of WvW right now and I rather not see it turn into pve with occasional pvp.

Add res points on top of the waypoints that one can install in keeps? So you want people to be able to get back to a fight 10 seconds after they die? In other words, you want to make the battlefield smaller so that tactics like flanking, hitting and enemy on opposing fronts etc. is not possible? So that killing someone doesn’t make much of a difference when trying to push a tower or keep? This would mean that the only way to then take something is by severely outnumbering your opponent.

No.

So, you basicly wan’t everything removed everyone in any other MMO hoped of ever getting in a future game?

Terrible ideas. Basically you want to turn WvW into team deathmatch with npcs. Awful.

Let me explain how much merit your ideas have in very simple terms: None at kitten all.

@Jonathan
In most cases, when the gates are down, zerging is the name of the game. Up to that point there has been little if any PvP unless you want to count pouunding the gates or ranging the walls. If the npcs had any skillz at all, there would actually be some PvP as the defenders inside the walls were bolsered by the npcs, if only for a few minutes. And you bet, I would much rather take down a few defenders with npcs who were the equivilent of a gate instead of a gate itself.

Rez points? Yes. As it is, for a server which had been overwhelmed, the battles take place close to their spawning points inside the world anyway. They spawn, they run to the nearest point, supply camp, whatever, and then they die. Rinse and repeat. Few chances present themselves to attack inland. How enjoyable is that? Are we wondering why virtually entire servers are going afk?

If you like to keep score, nothing is stopping you. I am sure there are plenty of bean counters who would set up threads and keep track of every keep and point controlled. Point is, is this a game for fun for everyone, or just the server with a couple of hundred Asian time zone players? I am as competitive as the next person and I will confess can be motivated and unmotivted by the score as well as the enjoyment or lack of enjoyment of playing. To have the score mean so little when it is so easily controled by such a small number of players makes it pointless.

Yes, I too enjoy logging in and getting into some open field PvP for the fun of it. About the time it turns into a siege the fun is winding down. By that time the opposing world has been unable to sustain any defense against seige weapons or mount over the wall offenses or flanks. The gate goes down and its over.
——
@Azaruil-

I for one don’t consider knocking down gates PvP.

No, waypoints somewhere in a general zip code would allow over matched worlds to mount somewhat effective threats away from the one world spawn point there is now.
——
So currently, the servers with the best Asian time zone presence dominate, period, game over. The territory won during USA off time hours is kept far too long and has far too large an influence on the final outcome. During peak USA time, the battles are far more competitive. There is quite a bit of competition in contested areas, but far too often there are servers which are limited to those areas which are close to their spawn point and little chance to even the score. Rarely does the score ever have a chance of changing, the advantage is so skewed. It is like allowing the football team that is ahead at half time to have 5 downs per set instead of 4 for the rest of the game. And, oh, by the way, the other team only gets to use the left side of the field to run their plays.

Nowhere else in any game I can think of is the outcome of the game determined so early on, because the playing field has been skewed so dramatically to the early leaders advantage, by players who play while most everyone else sleeps.

you say you want a sandlot, then ask for a theme park.

which is it?

do you want wvw or do you want tol borad?

Baladir, so I have to agree with Jonathan (as I was there last night and it was a blast) and Azaruil. You basically said that you want sPvP with some buildings and NPCs in there. More importantly I think you miss the whole idea behind WvWvW. It’s not just about running around mindlessly killing others, it’s about thinking beyond the point of your sword, it’s about a more in-depth strategy system, it’s about tactics, it’s about conquering, and it’s about working for a goal bigger than just one player’s personal gear (i’m sure others can add to that list). If you want to just run around a map and kill people because you don’t have any practice or ability to critically think and tactically plan, well then why are you complaining about WvWvW and not just playing sPvP? I love WvWvW far and beyond sPvP, reminds me of my days playing DAoC and WAR (Warhammer Online) and not the blind farce of the standard format of PvP.

Is beating on a wall or gate always fun, hell no; however, reaching that greater goal is far more rewarding than killing that other person over there for other reason than getting another piece of gear.

I have read over your 5 destructive ideas for destroying the fundamentals of WvWvW like 10 times so far and the only one that has any possibility of being even remotely helpful is number 5, but even as you have it, it would need a lot of changes.

dirtyklingon.2918:

you say you want a sandlot, then ask for a theme park.

which is it?

do you want wvw or do you want tol borad?

I had to google that heh.

Resetting the score each night still grants a winner for that day. Setting the score contribution for points held at the start of the day to zero grants each world score only for new points gained, not already held. At the end of the week there can still be one winner, but the early lead a world can jump to and the disproportionate advantage that gives them for the rest of the week is minimized. The battles each day and points gained and lost each day have much more weight in the over all standings.

So, no, tol borad is not what I was thinking.

The rest is thoughts of getting players to play each other, not play walls, and to minimize zergs. What good is a castle lord with a sword the size of a locomotive if his aoe attack doesn’t actually hurt anybody lol. It’s no wonder most every defender bails over the walls once a gate goes down. What if the crashing of a gate by a zerg was only the beginning and overmatched defenders still had a chance? What if the map couldn’t be quickly turned at the start of a contest or in the off hours by small numbers of players? What if a server in control of a map could be easily attacked in the rear and had to defend multiple fronts? None of this minimizes the strats used in the game, it just makes them more accessible to more players. That should theoretically anyway be more fun. I gotta say, about the ime I log in and see I have no place to go outside of my spawn point, I am outta there.

I don’t have to read far into many posts in this forum before I run into a heck of a lot of hard feelings about players who are not having alot of fun because of the imbalances now in the game. Whole servers AFK? Most popular part of the game? No quenes? Give me a break.

Worst ideas for changes to WvW…………….ever.

If you don’t think the score is important why not just…not pay attention to it? Just because it’s there and you might be losing doesn’t mean you have to sit and stare at the score the whole time?

Why can’t you go on about your business in WvW without being worried about your score?

Olcsonn.9327:

Baladir, so I have to agree with Jonathan (as I was there last night and it was a blast) and Azaruil. You basically said that you want sPvP with some buildings and NPCs in there. More importantly I think you miss the whole idea behind WvWvW. It’s not just about running around mindlessly killing others, it’s about thinking beyond the point of your sword, it’s about a more in-depth strategy system, it’s about tactics, it’s about conquering, and it’s about working for a goal bigger than just one player’s personal gear (i’m sure others can add to that list). If you want to just run around a map and kill people because you don’t have any practice or ability to critically think and tactically plan, well then why are you complaining about WvWvW and not just playing sPvP? I love WvWvW far and beyond sPvP, reminds me of my days playing DAoC and WAR (Warhammer Online) and not the blind farce of the standard format of PvP.

Is beating on a wall or gate always fun, hell no; however, reaching that greater goal is far more rewarding than killing that other person over there for other reason than getting another piece of gear.

I have read over your 5 destructive ideas for destroying the fundamentals of WvWvW like 10 times so far and the only one that has any possibility of being even remotely helpful is number 5, but even as you have it, it would need a lot of changes.

I have to agree with everything you have to say, expect of course where you disagree with me heh. If that was actually happening in practice for everyone it would be a wonderful world. I don’t see any of the changes I listed as affecting your playstyle at all. What the changes are intended to accomplish is to give less organized groups and servers a more even playing field. Even though they have been strategically crippled, they will still have access to a distant rez point or two in a world to launch an offensive from, away from their, effectively, camped spawn point. They will not be penalized each and every moment of every day for a week for points they lost early on. They have some resistance against overwhelming zergs with scaling npc backup to hold what few keeps they have.

Not all the gains by a world are neutralized or trivialized in my mind by these changes. The strategic advantage is still there. Supply is still there. Unimpeded movement around the map is still there. The organization that got a world to that place is still there.

This is nothing more than a handicapping system. Well, except for the no gates part and #5, which by no coincidence takes the battle away from gates. man, I hate gates.

1. is a good idea.

Wow the absolute worst post I have read on here since release.
Terrible ideas, must be a troll or something i am not aloud to say without getting banned.

Dia

Brunners.7251:

If you don’t think the score is important why not just…not pay attention to it? Just because it’s there and you might be losing doesn’t mean you have to sit and stare at the score the whole time?

Why can’t you go on about your business in WvW without being worried about your score?

I…can, but it really seems to dig into alot of players. Given that the score is often skewed early on, it seems to reflect how skewed the game can be too. Not too bad if you are on the winning side.

We don’t have a baseball, football, or basketball season where the winner is the one with most points scored at the end of a season. Tennis matches are best of 3 or 5 sets, not the first one to 12 or 18 games or 48 or 72 points. I fail so see why a match up of wvw has to be the world with the highest total number of points at the end of 168 hours, instead of playing best of 7 days for example.

I’m sure the Yankees wish the championship was based on total games won, bag the playoffs, which are best of 5 and 7 btw.

I think your ideas for WvWvW are terrible, but not in and of themselves. Perhaps a part of the PvE map where you had to choose a faction would be a better idea for the kind of fights you are looking for. You could have the ability to toggle a PvP flag in those areas and would face both strong NPC’s and opposite faction players that choose to flag for PvP. You are basically asking to remove the fundamental mechanics of WvWvW.

i meant that #5 is a good idea.

Just make the maps bigger so that it takes 5 minutes to run from keep to tower. It sucks right now, everyone can suicide run and respawn.

I have to agree with the majority here. I don’t like your viewpoint at all. #5 has some merit, but the rest I disagree with vehemently.

BTW I do mainly small scale and solo pvp in W3. If you want small scale and solo pvp, go looking for it. Nothing is stopping you and yes, there are plenty of other players doing the same out there.

I like the core of W3 right now. Only thing that I would like to change is perhaps a badge increase for smaller scale combat but oh well. The nice thing about W3 now is that when I choose to go large scale I can go join a group and help take one of the larger objectives. When I want to remain smaller scale but contribute to my server I can go take supply camps and hit their supply lines.

Those may not seem as impressive but believe me the “zergs” do tend to take note and are actually pretty appreciative of those contributions. It’s nice to get that random shout-out by your server mates in map chat giving you kudos for recapping a supply point for their siege group to utilize during a heated push.

There are 3 ways out of spawn for most maps. Spawn “camp” usually happens at a single exit. What, exactly, is stopping you from running the blockade? In every match I’ve ever been a part of, both sides have been able to take supply camps across the map, even when outmanned. Granted, you’ll never hold these positions in that situation.

It would actually be interesting to see additional spawn points open up, but only active when outmanned.