Guild Wars 2

I love catching these awesome megaduelists with a group, it certainly is entertaining watching the little pink bubbles of rage float off their smoking corpses once they get stomped into the ground. :p

Duelists → sPvP is that way. And kids, those videos you see on the youtubez… it’s called video editing and they never, ever show you the real story. For example after MegaAwesomeDude just totally destroys those five players in the video, they never show you how he was caught by their 30 friends three seconds later and got brutalized with an angry yak.

Gaudrath.6725:

I love catching these awesome megaduelists with a group, it certainly is entertaining watching the little pink bubbles of rage float off their smoking corpses once they get stomped into the ground. :p

Duelists -> sPvP is that way. And kids, those videos you see on the youtubez… it’s called video editing and they never, ever show you the real story. For example after MegaAwesomeDude just totally destroys those five players in the video, they never show you how he was caught by their 30 friends three seconds later and got brutalized with an angry yak.

Ok, so 30 players managed to kill a soloer
/surprised face

The fact that MegaAwesomeDude just reamed those 5 proves that practiced PvP players are superior to non-practiced.

Now go hide in your 30 man and let the real men talk.

There is nothing remotely wrong with folk duelling or GvG in WvWs.
You can`t do this in sPvP because you will always get interrupted &/or kittened at.
There is still no form of duelling in game other then the above.
They are adding private servers where we can duel, but we have to pay…

I`m of the ilk that if I see red, they die or I die, but on occasion I`ll get someone to downed & have enjoyed the fight, I`ll /bow & let them heal up & be on their way (although some have rushed me & died again ;p).

PvD is tedious, flipping camps is only slightly less tedious & hitting donkeys, /yaaaaaaawn.

join them next time & get some real PvP done, you may find out how good it really is compared to the zergfests.

Monsoon.2589:

This simply should not be allowed as it potentially opens the door to having twice as many players on your side than the side you are fighting…don’t you see?

What…? That is exactly what’s happening now. It’s WvWvW, you already have two opponents. Just because they’re working together doesn’t make it game breaking, it’s simply a challenge for you to overcome. I find it highly unlikely that the devs weren’t smart enough to think or even consider the possibility that servers might team up. I mean, cmon, THIS IS WAR. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, ya know?

It’s up to the servers to coordinate themselves to attack one server and to stop the impending drama once they attempt to form an alliance.

This is amazing, every time I open the forum I feel like my IQ is going down.
There is not a single reason to have a discussion about this.

1. Unless the map is full, duels aren’t a problem to ANYONE.
2. If you go in solo and interrupt people, it’s your own problem.
3. Obviously duelists are more skilled than the AVERAGE zergling (why even talk about that).
4. We need private sPvP servers.

Musty.3148:

That wasn’t a “fight club” I’m pretty sure they just ran into each other and were dueling.

Cause that would just about the dumbest spot fo have a fight club.

^ This.

Where they are currently standing is the path a zerg typically takes from one tower to another.

My first thought was spies,

Awmahgawd spies! Get the torches and the pitchforks!

I faceroll those thirty! Just gimme some spayse to kite and some things to break LoS and I kill them all.
Actually I will kill them all 3 times until they wont get downed state anymore!

Ha, that’s funny. I never even thought about it but it would be totally possible for a guild to have a presence on 2 competing servers and be able to all be in voice chat together dominating the 3rd server.

Lol!

Know whats great about cybering 1v1 with ECHO Mesmers? It quickly turns into a 5some, just sayin.

Dynnen.6405:

Know whats great about cybering 1v1 with ECHO Mesmers? It quickly turns into a 5some, just sayin.

What if they’re a Charr mesmer?

Awhile back a zerg tried to come wipe fight club when we had about 25 people there, it was a very bad idea. Needless to say they didn’t try it again.

Musty.3148:

Zumy.6318:

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Or maybe I’m just soft and not a hardcore archduelist like yourself and should keep my filthy peasant zergling mouth shut. :vvvvvvvv)

Pretty much this.

He walked into that one.

Actually, I served that one up on an ori platter because arguing with elitists is both pointless and unentertaining.

Notice the nose-count.

There were a few DR players trying to ruin one of ECHO’s FCs.

After a bunch of us flew in and dropped them the DR FCers kept ressing them for me to repeatedly kill….they didn’t show back up needless to say

Jinks.2057:

There were a few DR players trying to ruin one of ECHO’s FCs.

After a bunch of us flew in and dropped them the DR FCers kept ressing them for me to repeatedly kill….they didn’t show back up needless to say

Lol, poor guys probably saw a bunch of green and red nametags and hopped right in… then got violated by the same people they were probably trying to help.
A scene worthy of a Tarantino movie. Where is a katana when you need one, eh? :p

Gaudrath.6725:

Adaneshade.2409:

Gaudrath.6725:

I love catching these awesome megaduelists with a group, it certainly is entertaining watching the little pink bubbles of rage float off their smoking corpses once they get stomped into the ground. :p

Duelists -> sPvP is that way. And kids, those videos you see on the youtubez… it’s called video editing and they never, ever show you the real story. For example after MegaAwesomeDude just totally destroys those five players in the video, they never show you how he was caught by their 30 friends three seconds later and got brutalized with an angry yak.

Ok, so 30 players managed to kill a soloer
/surprised face

The fact that MegaAwesomeDude just reamed those 5 proves that practiced PvP players are superior to non-practiced.

Now go hide in your 30 man and let the real men talk.

And of course, you just missed the point. People watch those videos and think WvW can be like that.

It can’t and it won’t. Those videos never show that such fights happen one out of ten times or less, usually when an experienced and decked out player with a good build catches a group of inexperienced ones with possibly sub-par builds and/or equipment.
In reality, there is no way equally skilled players can lose 5 vs 1. So basically the MegaAwesomeDude is putting up videos of him killing total noobs and pretending this is a normal occurrence.

WvW is not about dueling, it is about massive teamwork. Regardless of skill, players are an asset only if they work for the team. Doesn’t matter if they run with a zerg or if they roam and harass supply lines, or if they’re yakslapping to get supply moving.

But if they stand in jumping puzzles or in some remote spot with their duelist buddies pretending they’re some kind of “real men”, the only thing they’re doing is wasting slots.

Which is why I think ANet should finally introduce frikkin’ dueling and arena play so that we who actually want to play WvW don’t have to scratch our heads wondering where the heck is everybody when enemy zergs come knocking on the front door and half our force is off e*-peening somewhere.

The operative term in the 5v1 argument is “equally skilled”. Do you honestly believe that players who spend the entirety of their PvP experience relying on support from other players and/or superiority in numbers to win out in a situation could ever be “equally skilled” to someone who focuses primarily on 1vX fights and trains to fight them?

Fraeg.9837:

Attic.1562:

Gaudrath.6725:

[more mad ranting]

You’re a sad, laughable figure aren’t you?

Do you not see the irony inherent in passing judgement on people while also saying they should “get off their high horses”?

Can’t tell if you are trolling or just that blind to the several very valid points s/he makes.

Probably a bit of both

So what you are saying is that DR usually has a queue on maps? His points are not valid at all, anyone can feel superior and act condescending about anything, it’s your choice to ignore them or not.

Adaneshade.2409:

Gaudrath.6725:

Adaneshade.2409:

Gaudrath.6725:

I love catching these awesome megaduelists with a group, it certainly is entertaining watching the little pink bubbles of rage float off their smoking corpses once they get stomped into the ground. :p

Duelists -> sPvP is that way. And kids, those videos you see on the youtubez… it’s called video editing and they never, ever show you the real story. For example after MegaAwesomeDude just totally destroys those five players in the video, they never show you how he was caught by their 30 friends three seconds later and got brutalized with an angry yak.

Ok, so 30 players managed to kill a soloer
/surprised face

The fact that MegaAwesomeDude just reamed those 5 proves that practiced PvP players are superior to non-practiced.

Now go hide in your 30 man and let the real men talk.

And of course, you just missed the point. People watch those videos and think WvW can be like that.

It can’t and it won’t. Those videos never show that such fights happen one out of ten times or less, usually when an experienced and decked out player with a good build catches a group of inexperienced ones with possibly sub-par builds and/or equipment.
In reality, there is no way equally skilled players can lose 5 vs 1. So basically the MegaAwesomeDude is putting up videos of him killing total noobs and pretending this is a normal occurrence.

WvW is not about dueling, it is about massive teamwork. Regardless of skill, players are an asset only if they work for the team. Doesn’t matter if they run with a zerg or if they roam and harass supply lines, or if they’re yakslapping to get supply moving.

But if they stand in jumping puzzles or in some remote spot with their duelist buddies pretending they’re some kind of “real men”, the only thing they’re doing is wasting slots.

Which is why I think ANet should finally introduce frikkin’ dueling and arena play so that we who actually want to play WvW don’t have to scratch our heads wondering where the heck is everybody when enemy zergs come knocking on the front door and half our force is off e*-peening somewhere.

The operative term in the 5v1 argument is “equally skilled”. Do you honestly believe that players who spend the entirety of their PvP experience relying on support from other players and/or superiority in numbers to win out in a situation could ever be “equally skilled” to someone who focuses primarily on 1vX fights and trains to fight them?

Interesting question. Depends on what kind of skills we’re talking about.
I find that people who train in controlled 1vsX fights tend to develop their skills only for that particular kind of fight.

Real WvW is very rarely like that, as I am sure people know (hence fight clubs). WvW fights are seldom the same numbers-wise at the beginning and at the end, meaning an efficient WvW player has to develop a different set of skills if they really want to be as successful as possible.
Being able to predict the ebb and flow of large-scale fights is different than focusing on only a few opponents. It doesn’t matter if you can win against five less skilled players at the same time after a five minute fight when 30 players just roll over you in a few seconds and you didn’t see it coming. It doesn’t matter that you can win any 1vs1 duel if you don’t learn how to work with other players.

Also, the attitude that people in zergs are somehow dumb or unskilled is completely wrong. Yes, you will always have less skilled players or young kids or very occasionally people who are in their own world. But most players stick to big groups for a very valid reason – not because it’s easier but because it is a necessity. Not because they are unskilled but because skill means little if you get caught out alone in the open by 20 angry dudes.

So no. Fight club training is not that useful skill wise. That is, I can see it being far more useful for sPvP than WvW. Although even in sPvP teamwork is far more important than awesome dueling skills. It’s just that kind of game.

Train in siege placement instead, that’s more in tune with what’s really going on in a WvW fight. Train group flanking maneuvers. Portal bombing. Efficient teamwork. That’s going to make a real impact in a WvW fight, not who can down the most people when in a strictly controlled environment.
And best of all, while players need a fight club to train in 1vsX fights, they can train all of the above while actually making a contribution to their team.

Or if they’re so intrigued by the prospect of 1vsX, do what real roamers do and get out there on their own, come hell or high water. Instead of hiding in some remote corner somewhere and pretending they’re just the best there is.

Gaudrath.6725:

Interesting question. Depends on what kind of skills we’re talking about.
I find that people who train in controlled 1vsX fights tend to develop their skills only for that particular kind of fight.

Real WvW is very rarely like that, as I am sure people know (hence fight clubs). WvW fights are seldom the same numbers-wise at the beginning and at the end, meaning an efficient WvW player has to develop a different set of skills if they really want to be as successful as possible.
Being able to predict the ebb and flow of large-scale fights is different than focusing on only a few opponents. It doesn’t matter if you can win against five less skilled players at the same time after a five minute fight when 30 players just roll over you in a few seconds and you didn’t see it coming. It doesn’t matter that you can win any 1vs1 duel if you don’t learn how to work with other players.

Also, the attitude that people in zergs are somehow dumb or unskilled is completely wrong. Yes, you will always have less skilled players or young kids or very occasionally people who are in their own world. But most players stick to big groups for a very valid reason – not because it’s easier but because it is a necessity. Not because they are unskilled but because skill means little if you get caught out alone in the open by 20 angry dudes.

So no. Fight club training is not that useful skill wise. That is, I can see it being far more useful for sPvP than WvW. Although even in sPvP teamwork is far more important than awesome dueling skills. It’s just that kind of game.

Train in siege placement instead, that’s more in tune with what’s really going on in a WvW fight. Train group flanking maneuvers. Portal bombing. Efficient teamwork. That’s going to make a real impact in a WvW fight, not who can down the most people when in a strictly controlled environment.
And best of all, while players need a fight club to train in 1vsX fights, they can train all of the above while actually making a contribution to their team.

Or if they’re so intrigued by the prospect of 1vsX, do what real roamers do and get out there on their own, come hell or high water. Instead of hiding in some remote corner somewhere and pretending they’re just the best there is.

You are aware that most of these people you see dueling ALSO do solo roaming in WvW right? We’re well aware of the fact that enemies add in randomly during fights. But our enhance ability to track and counter multiple opponents simultaneously makes for MUCH stronger PvPers.

My roamer theme song

Sorry zergers are less skilled pvpers.

I solo roam A LOT, but I do take breaks from that to roam in a group.

Now my roaming group tends to take out 4-5x our numbers…guess what they all are FCers.

I dont FC tho….go figure

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Really true

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Ya well zerg busting is fav past time of mine. After you wipe em a few times their zerball is alwsys a lil smaller.

Jinks.2057:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Ya well zerg busting is fav past time of mine. After you wipe em a few times their zerball is alwsys a lil smaller.

Haha yes funny how that works. Must be a few thin skinned individuals in the zerg

I like the zergers talking about important, meaningful contributions to wvw to accomplish real goals. And what are they accomplishing? Making a meaningless number that resets every week go up. Keep up the good work guys.

Adaneshade.2409:

You are aware that most of these people you see dueling ALSO do solo roaming in WvW right? We’re well aware of the fact that enemies add in randomly during fights. But our enhance ability to track and counter multiple opponents simultaneously makes for MUCH stronger PvPers.

All roaming WvW duties (aka yak sniping, keep portal suppressing, camp raiding and scouting) can be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. Sorry for ruin your shiny world. And yes, with almost same efficiency.

Rule number 1 for fight club, DONT POST ABOUT FIGHT CLUB!

Rednik.3809:

Adaneshade.2409:

You are aware that most of these people you see dueling ALSO do solo roaming in WvW right? We’re well aware of the fact that enemies add in randomly during fights. But our enhance ability to track and counter multiple opponents simultaneously makes for MUCH stronger PvPers.

All roaming WvW duties (aka yak sniping, keep portal suppressing, camp raiding and scouting) can be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. Sorry to ruin your shiny world.

You are not ruining anything. The fact is that the things you mentioned will never be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. They will be done by the players who understand its importance to your server’s effort in WvW.

Gab Superstar.4059:

You are not ruining anything. The fact is that the things you mentioned will never be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. They will be done by the players who understand its importance to your server’s effort in WvW.

You never seen Vizuna Square or EU T1-T2, right?

Rednik.3809:

Gab Superstar.4059:

You are not ruining anything. The fact is that the things you mentioned will never be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. They will be done by the players who understand its importance to your server’s effort in WvW.

You never seen Vizuna Square or EU T1-T2, right?

Sure I have. Why?

Gab Superstar.4059:

Sure I have. Why?

Because such tasks usually performed by such players, especially at offpeak hours. It’s really easy and only requires some perseverance.

Rednik.3809:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Sure I have. Why?

Because such tasks usually performed by such players, especially at offpeak hours. It’s really easy and only requires some perseverance.

Gab Superstar.4059:

They will be done by the players who understand its importance to your server’s effort in WvW.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

dreztina.4820:

I like the zergers talking about important, meaningful contributions to wvw to accomplish real goals. And what are they accomplishing? Making a meaningless number that resets every week go up. Keep up the good work guys.

You could say that about any game. Football? Bunch of dudes kicking a ball around to make meaningless numbers go up.

It’s all a game. What, you think your superior dueling skills are more meaningful? The fact that you can press buttons on your keyboard in a more efficient manner is not that impressive. None of this is. We play games for fun, not to accomplish anything.

Which makes the kind of condescending attitude certain players seem to cultivate all the more baffling. There is literally nothing to be condescending about.

Jinks.2057:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Ya well zerg busting is fav past time of mine. After you wipe em a few times their zerball is alwsys a lil smaller.

Post a video of it please? btw what is your definition and size of zerg? On my server it’s usually 25 to 80.

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

The tone of your post is terrible. Please don’t quote things I say if you are rebutting something posted by someone else. The phrase “shut up about it” is offensive.

Not every response in this thread is directed to you or about you.

Adaneshade.2409:

The operative term in the 5v1 argument is “equally skilled”. Do you honestly believe that players who spend the entirety of their PvP experience relying on support from other players and/or superiority in numbers to win out in a situation could ever be “equally skilled” to someone who focuses primarily on 1vX fights and trains to fight them?

Yes.

Your mistake is in thinking that 1v1 is skill and 20v20 isn’t. I guarantee I need more skill and better timing playing a front line engineer who is liable, at any moment, to be targeted by 20 people than you do by playing footsie with 1 or 2 other players. A skilled support Guardian is worth three duelists in a fight for the lord room of a keep. The duelists will all be downed and stomped while the properly specced WvW characters are still up, fighting and supporting each other — something duelists don’t have any practice at or ever build for.

Rednik.3809:

Adaneshade.2409:

You are aware that most of these people you see dueling ALSO do solo roaming in WvW right? We’re well aware of the fact that enemies add in randomly during fights. But our enhance ability to track and counter multiple opponents simultaneously makes for MUCH stronger PvPers.

All roaming WvW duties (aka yak sniping, keep portal suppressing, camp raiding and scouting) can be performed by 2-4 upleveled players in quest greens and with zero l33t dU3l experience. Sorry for ruin your shiny world. And yes, with almost same efficiency.

ou’re absolutely right noobs in greens CAN flip camps and take out yaks. I never said that is what solo roaming is about. I PvP, no interest in that stuff. What many of us soloers do is harass the enemy zergs, kiting 3 or 4 players out who are kitteny enough to think themselves a match for us and take them out. Reducing the enemy zerg by that amount. With the average zerg being maybe 40, 4 players represents a 10% loss in their forces before they even make it to their objective.

Once they DO engage we’re in the back of the zerg destroying their support classes hiding in the back essentially paving the way for our own zerg to steamroll theirs.

Kabuki.9103:

I just got killed and I see a big group of reds running around my corpse… members of both the opposing servers and they aren’t fighting each other. Even worse, some from different servers have the same guild tags.

Made me lose all desire to play WvW… it’s a sad moment for me.

Working as designed.

Slamz.5376:

Adaneshade.2409:

The operative term in the 5v1 argument is “equally skilled”. Do you honestly believe that players who spend the entirety of their PvP experience relying on support from other players and/or superiority in numbers to win out in a situation could ever be “equally skilled” to someone who focuses primarily on 1vX fights and trains to fight them?

Yes.

Your mistake is in thinking that 1v1 is skill and 20v20 isn’t. I guarantee I need more skill and better timing playing a front line engineer who is liable, at any moment, to be targeted by 20 people than you do by playing footsie with 1 or 2 other players. A skilled support Guardian is worth three duelists in a fight for the lord room of a keep. The duelists will all be downed and stomped while the properly specced WvW characters are still up, fighting and supporting each other — something duelists don’t have any practice at or ever build for.

The issue here is that same engineer can just retreat back into his zerg for respite once his CDs are down and he needs to heal up. Soloers don’t get that luxury, we have to learn to “dig ourselves out” of a bad situation on our own.

And what is the properly specced business? Do you think duelists run glass cannon builds? LAWL! that’s a good way to lose every single fight. Even on my thief i run 3k armor and 19k hp. The difference is as a veteran soloers, I’m self-sufficient, I don’t rely on boons or assistance from other players to be in combat.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

The tone of your post is terrible. Please don’t quote things I say if you are rebutting something posted by someone else. The phrase “shut up about it” is offensive.

Not every response in this thread is directed to you or about you.

I thought you might think I was criticizing you personally with that last part – I wasn’t, even though I quoted you so – my bad for the misunderstanding.

I was addressing the type of player who participates in FC’s and then acts elitist towards their fellow team members. We even have an example here of players repatedly rezzing their teammates which interrupted a FC so that they could be killed over and over by the other side.

Now, do you think that sort of attitude doesn’t deserve at least a terrible tone in forum post? Makes me wish there was such a thing as banning players from WvW.

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

The tone of your post is terrible. Please don’t quote things I say if you are rebutting something posted by someone else. The phrase “shut up about it” is offensive.

Not every response in this thread is directed to you or about you.

I thought you might think I was criticizing you personally with that last part – I wasn’t, even though I quoted you so – my bad for the misunderstanding.

I was addressing the type of player who participates in FC’s and then acts elitist towards their fellow team members. We even have an example here of players repatedly rezzing their teammates which interrupted a FC so that they could be killed over and over by the other side.

Now, do you think that sort of attitude doesn’t deserve at least a terrible tone in forum post? Makes me wish there was such a thing as banning players from WvW.

Meh, he will get repaircosts only once, so who cares.

Adaneshade.2409:

The issue here is that same engineer can just retreat back into his zerg for respite once his CDs are down and he needs to heal up.

Assuming he has timed things correctly, didn’t overcommit and saved a good escape ability or two to get back into cover. He’s the one who can clear all of his conditions and, 1 second later, have multiple stacks of multiple conditions on him again — something the duelist never has to worry about. 1 opponent can only throw so many conditions on you. 20 opponents can load you right back up.

The difference is as a veteran soloers, I’m self-sufficient, I don’t rely on boons or assistance from other players to be in combat.

And you don’t do anything to support them, either. 1 skilled duelist will surely defeat 1 skilled WvW player but 20 skilled WvW players will roflstomp 20 skilled duelists.

Duelists have little understanding of multi-class synergy because they have no practice at it. Wonder if you’re even aware of all of the different field/finisher combos and what they do? Especially fields and finishers that your allies can throw to play off of you. Any solo guardian can throw down a light field and then do a blast finisher for a little retaliation but only the good WvW players understand that you can coordinate these fields and finishers for mass effect, including things your class isn’t otherwise capable of doing. Combo fields do a couple of neat things when you’re solo. They do a lot of powerful, awesome things when there’s 20 of you — 20 people who know how to coordinate, that is, not 20 soloers. (20 soloers is the very definition of “mindless zerg”.)

Slamz.5376:

Adaneshade.2409:

The issue here is that same engineer can just retreat back into his zerg for respite once his CDs are down and he needs to heal up.

Assuming he has timed things correctly, didn’t overcommit and saved a good escape ability or two to get back into cover. He’s the one who can clear all of his conditions and, 1 second later, have multiple stacks of multiple conditions on him again — something the duelist never has to worry about. 1 opponent can only throw so many conditions on you. 20 opponents can load you right back up.

The difference is as a veteran soloers, I’m self-sufficient, I don’t rely on boons or assistance from other players to be in combat.

And you don’t do anything to support them, either. 1 skilled duelist will surely defeat 1 skilled WvW player but 20 skilled WvW players will roflstomp 20 skilled duelists.

Duelists have little understanding of multi-class synergy because they have no practice at it. Wonder if you’re even aware of all of the different field/finisher combos and what they do? Especially fields and finishers that your allies can throw to play off of you. Any solo guardian can throw down a light field and then do a blast finisher for a little retaliation but only the good WvW players understand that you can coordinate these fields and finishers for mass effect, including things your class isn’t otherwise capable of doing. Combo fields do a couple of neat things when you’re solo. They do a lot of powerful, awesome things when there’s 20 of you — 20 people who know how to coordinate, that is, not 20 soloers. (20 soloers is the very definition of “mindless zerg”.)

Actually, yes I’m very aware of possible combo fields and finishers, duelists don’t just fight 1v1… we do 1v2, 1v3 and some of us even 1v4. In fact, people who duel tend to know MORE about every detail, every build, every aspect of every class in the game so there are no surprises. Surprises get you killed but knowing what combos to expect from the forces teamed against you can save your butt in a fight. Also, I’ve already pointed out no one exclusively does fight clubs, that’s just asinine to think.

The same people doing these fight clubs are the ones saving your zerg’s kitten when you get pinned down in an open field fight by a superior force. Simply because we can operate deep in their back-lines out of range of the support from our team mates to take out the important targets (their commander, their mesmers, etc). The player in a build that relies on boons or support coming from someone else to reach peak effectiveness could never do this.

Zumy.6318:

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

The tone of your post is terrible. Please don’t quote things I say if you are rebutting something posted by someone else. The phrase “shut up about it” is offensive.

Not every response in this thread is directed to you or about you.

I thought you might think I was criticizing you personally with that last part – I wasn’t, even though I quoted you so – my bad for the misunderstanding.

I was addressing the type of player who participates in FC’s and then acts elitist towards their fellow team members. We even have an example here of players repatedly rezzing their teammates which interrupted a FC so that they could be killed over and over by the other side.

Now, do you think that sort of attitude doesn’t deserve at least a terrible tone in forum post? Makes me wish there was such a thing as banning players from WvW.

Meh, he will get repaircosts only once, so who cares.

It’s not about that. As the OP mentioned, that sort of thing can really leave a sour taste in your mouth. Perhaps even enough to discourage someone from playing WvW at all, not to mention that any kind of elitism is contrary to the kind of camaraderie and a sense of working together on a large scale which makes (or should make) WvW appealing in the first place.

Plus its just lowlife bullying. No other way to describe it.

This morning, I interrupted a duel. I didn’t realize ‘till afterwards (I got stomped) that it was a duel. And I will do the same thing again. Why? Not because I’m a mean guy who likes to ruin people’s fun, but because there’s no frikkin way to tell if some guys are dueling or having a FC, or if there is a legit fight going on. If it is a fight, and 99% of time it is, you want to hop in and help out. And you don’t have time, once the hits start flying, to nicely work things out in chat, especially since the other side is incommunicado and is trying to kill you.

WvW is a team oriented game. No two ways about it.

Cry me a River..

Build a Bridge…

Over Ruins….

And Get over it.

No But srsly.

likewhoa

Slamz.5376:

Adaneshade.2409:

The operative term in the 5v1 argument is “equally skilled”. Do you honestly believe that players who spend the entirety of their PvP experience relying on support from other players and/or superiority in numbers to win out in a situation could ever be “equally skilled” to someone who focuses primarily on 1vX fights and trains to fight them?

Yes.

Your mistake is in thinking that 1v1 is skill and 20v20 isn’t. I guarantee I need more skill and better timing playing a front line engineer who is liable, at any moment, to be targeted by 20 people than you do by playing footsie with 1 or 2 other players. A skilled support Guardian is worth three duelists in a fight for the lord room of a keep. The duelists will all be downed and stomped while the properly specced WvW characters are still up, fighting and supporting each other — something duelists don’t have any practice at or ever build for.

I can say from experience that all these people bragging about their 20v20 prowess fall down like everyone else when you catch them in 5s or less. Not saying everyone that participates in that is bad but the good ones you can usually find in small groups from time to time.

I admit its a different skill set but nothing teaches you the game like running 5 or less.

dreztina.4820:

I like the zergers talking about important, meaningful contributions to wvw to accomplish real goals. And what are they accomplishing? Making a meaningless number that resets every week go up. Keep up the good work guys.

Thank you btw I’ve been thinking this for the past 6 months. Tie a number to something and watch the mindless chase it around.

Gaudrath.6725:

not to mention that any kind of elitism is contrary to the kind of camaraderie and a sense of working together on a large scale which makes (or should make) WvW appealing in the first place

This coming from someone who’s posts in the thread largely seem to boil down to “That thing you do that you enjoy? You suck because it doesn’t conform to my narrow view of how WvW should be,” how rich.

Elitism is not the answer to elitism.

Which I suppose is sort of beside the point in any case. You’re not actually trying to stop elitism, or speaking out against it. You’re just trying to play “Fun Police.”

Gaudrath.6725:

WvW is a team oriented game. No two ways about it.

WvW is just an area of the game where people can kill other people who are not on their server.

That’s all it is. Trying to ascribe some deeper meaning to it is foolish nonsense perpetrated by foolish people, usually with overinflated egos.