Guild Wars 2

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

I never said anything to the contrary. My point is that the notion that only being in a FC can make you a good roamer or duelist, or that anyone running with a zerg is an unskilled player simply isn’t true.

As I said… if you want to be a good duelist, don’t go to fight clubs, get out there and roam for real. Because that will give you a proper kind of challenge, since roaming is a highly unpredictable business. AND you get to be actually useful to the team, since you can also scout around and report stuff.

And again… do the fight club if that’s your thing, and you’re not taking up slots. But observe the #1 rule and shut up about it. FC-ers have no business talking down to anyone, since even the least skilled zergling is actually more useful than they are. Simple as that. Play as you like, but don’t act like that makes you better than “those dumb zerglings”.

The tone of your post is terrible. Please don’t quote things I say if you are rebutting something posted by someone else. The phrase “shut up about it” is offensive.

Not every response in this thread is directed to you or about you.

I thought you might think I was criticizing you personally with that last part – I wasn’t, even though I quoted you so – my bad for the misunderstanding.

I was addressing the type of player who participates in FC’s and then acts elitist towards their fellow team members. We even have an example here of players repatedly rezzing their teammates which interrupted a FC so that they could be killed over and over by the other side.

Now, do you think that sort of attitude doesn’t deserve at least a terrible tone in forum post? Makes me wish there was such a thing as banning players from WvW.

I have participated in a few fight clubs and they generally stop when one of the players is in a downed position. Their team mate is then allowed to res the downed player so that they can reset for another fight. This helps to speed up the process instead of reviving a completely downed and stomped player.

If a duelist thinks that they are better than another player, then they should be able to back it up when called on it. If they ARE that much better then they deserve props for their skill.

On that note, I don’t believe you can compare a group player to solo one because their focuses are different. On one hand you have a player that needs to be completely self reliant which will dictate their skill selection. Group players of the same class may not make the same trait choices because a member of their team will fill that weakness in their build.

Both types of play and players should be given respect. A solo player shouldn’t generalize group players as being unskilled unless they have engaged in a group duel to prove the claim.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.

Attic.1562:

Gaudrath.6725:

not to mention that any kind of elitism is contrary to the kind of camaraderie and a sense of working together on a large scale which makes (or should make) WvW appealing in the first place

This coming from someone who’s posts in the thread largely seem to boil down to “That thing you do that you enjoy? You suck because it doesn’t conform to my narrow view of how WvW should be,” how rich.

Elitism is not the answer to elitism.

Which I suppose is sort of beside the point in any case. You’re not actually trying to stop elitism, or speaking out against it. You’re just trying to play “Fun Police.”

Gaudrath.6725:

WvW is a team oriented game. No two ways about it.

WvW is just an area of the game where people can kill other people who are not on their server.

That’s all it is. Trying to ascribe some deeper meaning to it is foolish nonsense perpetrated by foolish people, usually with overinflated egos.

Maybe I am complicating things too much. Let me be clear. I don’t care about how you spend your play time. What I care is about how people treat each other. Call me sentimental if you like, but just because we’re all doing the anonymous persona online thing doesn’t mean we should throw basic human decency out the window and behave like 13-year old schoolyard brats/bullies to each other.

Elitism of any kind is something I will speak out against. It has no place in the real world, and even less in the virtual one where all you do simply doesn’t exist except in our collective heads. This is a game. More so, it is a team oriented game. Anyone who is doing their best, deserves props for their effort, not their skill.

And no, it is not elitism to call people elitists if they behave like that. That’s typical “politically correct running in circles and saying nothing” attitude and I don’t prance about like that.

Re-read my posts if you want. I never said I was better than anyone else or that my way is the only way to play the game. I said that it is wrong to act as if you are worth more than your fellow players just because you got skill in pressing certain buttons in a correct sequence. Simple as that.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Both types of play and players should be given respect. A solo player shouldn’t generalize group players as being unskilled unless they have engaged in a group duel to prove the claim.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.

I never said anything to the contrary – in fact in one of my earlier posts I said pretty much the same thing.

I entered this discussion because I wanted to speak out against elitism that is unfortunately cultivated by many FC participants. We have seen a lot of generalizations in this thread, most of them aimed at group players a.k.a. zerglings.

Though I still think open roaming is better training than FC’s, simply because the situation is “real” and you get good at both dueling and quickly figuring out what to do when the situation inevitably changes. You train yourself to track more information and your reactions are faster and more appropriate, than if you only learned how to track what your opponent(s) are doing.

Sure, it will cost more silver and time, but I just think it’s more efficient both for the player and their team, since they can double as scouts and actually do harass the enemy.

Just like back when I was playing EvE… some people enrolled in a player run PvP “fight club” (Eve University I think it is called), where there would be Red vs Blue staged fights so that people can learn how to fight properly.

And some of us just bought a hundred cheap frigates, and went to die a hundred times out there.

The result was the same, except that the latter ones learned quickly how unfair open world PvP is and adapted their playstyle accordingly.

This thread is some good reading. Keep it up, boys!

Gaudrath.6725:

Anyone who is doing their best, deserves props for their effort, not their skill.

This sounds an awful lot like coddling to me, like we’re in kindergarten. I will say that I agree that we should respect each player no matter their skill level, but to ignore someone who is obviously more skilled in a certain area just sounds like an attempt to make everyone seem like equals. The truth is, we’re not.

GuardianOMS.8067:

This thread is some good reading. Keep it up, boys!

Gaudrath.6725:

Anyone who is doing their best, deserves props for their effort, not their skill.

This sounds an awful lot like coddling to me, like we’re in kindergarten. I will say that I agree that we should respect each player no matter their skill level, but to ignore someone who is obviously more skilled in a certain area just sounds like an attempt to make everyone seem like equals. The truth is, we’re not.

No, we are not, but I believe in positive affirmation rather than negative segregation when it comes to team effort. Yes, some players are obviously more skilled or experienced than others which is why I always advocated that commander tags should be closely tied to time spent in WvW, kills or rank.

However, I do not believe that just because someone is more skilled gives them the right to be condescending towards those who are not. The attitude that certain players are “useless”, “mindless” or any of the usual derogatory attributes simply because they are not as good at a certain aspects of WvW as some other players are, simply does not fly.

Furthermore, in any team based game, morale and team cohesion are very important. Players who feel they’re not appreciated will not be as committed to the effort as players who feel their effort is being noticed and acknowledged. For example, why should a puggie spend coin to buy siege BP’s and deploy them if they hear their commander deriding “useless pugs” in chat afterwards?
Even more so because it’s a game. It’s not real war, nobody died, nothing is permanently destroyed or lost. There is literally no reason not to be nice to each other regardless of skill presented and appreciate the effort. It’s not cuddling, just basic team decorum.

Do note, I am not saying nobody should ever be criticized for making mistakes, but there are useful ways and obnoxious ways of doing that. I vote for being useful.

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. I’m sure most everybody can agree that its nice to be treated nicely.

Maybe we should rename this thread to Gaudrath’s philosophy on being nice in GW2.

I don’t think you are completely wasting your breath here but you have certainly beat your point to a bloody pulp.

Everybody paid the same money for this game and can play it how they like, they can boast if they want and they can brag if they want. Just because they don’t hold your viewpoint on group play being what GW2 is all about doesn’t mean they should get a tongue lashing from you.

What’s funny are the people who think all duelers do is duel. A lot of them duo, run 5s, and run 10-15s as well. They are, generally speaking, very well-rounded players who have very good game knowledge when it comes to class abilities and combinations.

What they might not have the best knowledge of are the best siege and countersiege placement locations. But, they don’t give a crap about siege other than using it in the open field to flip the odds when outnumbered or using it on a tower or keep to try to get people out in the field instead of hiding behind walls.

It is far more likely for someone good at small scale combat to join a larger group and do well when compared to someone who only does large scale combat to leave his group and fight solo or duo.

All you have to look at are the numerous T1 zergball videos that have been posted by some of the best where the player doesn’t use all of their abilities and even worse not only mouseclicks their utilities but their WEAPON SKILLS. You might be able to get away with that when you have safety in numbers but if you go to solo or duo like that you will be quickly exposed and embarrassed.

What I have stated above is what is commonly referred to as “the truth.” Argue all you want against it but it will still remain “the truth.”

I dont even know how to work siege.

I know that if you lack firefields, you can use flamerams to stack might :-D.

Acelerion.6820:

I dont even know how to work siege.

It’s pretty complicated stuff.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Everybody paid the same money for this game and can play it how they like, they can boast if they want and they can brag if they want. Just because they don’t hold your viewpoint on group play being what GW2 is all about doesn’t mean they should get a tongue lashing from you.

Ah then, don’t dish it out if you can’t take it. As I said, I don’t care about bragging. But there is a big difference between bragging and elitism. And no, they can’t be elitists if they want without deserving a tongue lashing.

And so what? That’s my opinion, and I voice it. If anyone has a problem with other people’s opinions or getting a little broiled on the forums, they should just unplug their internet connection because they gonna get an ulcer that way.

Acelerion.6820:

I dont even know how to work siege.

You need a really big helmet.

Gaudrath.6725:

Re-read my posts if you want. I never said I was better than anyone else or that my way is the only way to play the game. I said that it is wrong to act as if you are worth more than your fellow players just because you got skill in pressing certain buttons in a correct sequence. Simple as that.

Oh really? I must have imagined all these quotes then.

Look at all that smugness peaking out from behind your facade of civility and kindness. Don’t act like your kitten doesn’t stink. You’re being a jerk to people just because they don’t want to play the way you do.

You continuously fail to recognize that WvW isn’t some sort of grand team event. There are no rules about how people have to fight for points, or kills, or anything else. You can’t report people to the GMs for dueling, talking to each other, or even sitting in a circle in the corner of the map cybering.

WvW is, instead, a bunch of disparate people who want different things and have wildly different goals. Why you can’t respect that is beyond me, but that continual undercurrent of condescension belies your outward message of decency.

Oozo.7856:

Acelerion.6820:

I dont even know how to work siege.

It’s pretty complicated stuff.

Usually I just insult him. Let his wife worry about working him.

Attic.1562:

Gaudrath.6725:

Re-read my posts if you want. I never said I was better than anyone else or that my way is the only way to play the game. I said that it is wrong to act as if you are worth more than your fellow players just because you got skill in pressing certain buttons in a correct sequence. Simple as that.

Oh really? I must have imagined all these quotes then.

I said I thought my way is better (roaming vs. fight clubs) and explained why. Nowhere did I say that my way is the only way to do things, nor have I said that duelists in general suck. On the contrary.
And I definitely never derided anyone who didn’t deserve it in the first place. I’m sorry, but I do not think the kind of players I’m talking about deserve courtesy.

My main point is that elitism of any kind simply sucks, and that still stands. I don’t care how well someone can play, or how experienced they are, that gives them no right at all to be condescending to other players. If you want to argue something, argue that.

Gaudrath.6725:

Furiousbeard.7602:

Everybody paid the same money for this game and can play it how they like, they can boast if they want and they can brag if they want. Just because they don’t hold your viewpoint on group play being what GW2 is all about doesn’t mean they should get a tongue lashing from you.

Ah then, don’t dish it out if you can’t take it. As I said, I don’t care about bragging. But there is a big difference between bragging and elitism. And no, they can’t be elitists if they want without deserving a tongue lashing.

And so what? That’s my opinion, and I voice it. If anyone has a problem with other people’s opinions or getting a little broiled on the forums, they should just unplug their internet connection because they gonna get an ulcer that way.

Looks who’s calling the kettle black

maybe you need an unplug for a bit so you can go make the world a friendlier place instead of wasting your time in here.

Go to PMs with Adaneshade.2409 if you have beef with his Elitism

Leave the rest of us decent players out of your rantings

Gaudrath.6725:

My main point is that elitism of any kind simply sucks, and that still stands. I don’t care how well someone can play, or how experienced they are, that gives them no right at all to be condescending to other players. If you want to argue something, argue that.

And seemingly your only counter to the “hurrr im better than u b/c i r 100/0 in duals & r moar skilled than u” elitists you’re railing against boils down to “durr u suck cuz ur skills r meaningless 2 the real game” only with some false indignant righteousness attached. Hypocrisy at it’s best.

As I said before (even if it got deleted), the counter to elitism is not more elitism. You’re just ranting about something you don’t like and masquerading as some sort of noble soul who only cares for the hurt feelings of the poor newbies being trampled by the big bad duelists.

There are words for how you’re acting but all of them equal out to “kitten” here.

Attic.1562:

Gaudrath.6725:

My main point is that elitism of any kind simply sucks, and that still stands. I don’t care how well someone can play, or how experienced they are, that gives them no right at all to be condescending to other players. If you want to argue something, argue that.

And seemingly your only counter to the “hurrr im better than u b/c i r 100/0 in duals & r moar skilled than u” elitists you’re railing against boils down to “durr u suck cuz ur skills r meaningless 2 the real game” only with some false indignant righteousness attached. Hypocrisy at it’s best.

As I said before (even if it got deleted), the counter to elitism is not more elitism. You’re just ranting about something you don’t like and masquerading as some sort of noble soul who only cares for the hurt feelings of the poor newbies being trampled by the big bad duelists.

There are words for how you’re acting but all of them equal out to “kitten” here.

First – I am not elitist. Do you even know what the word means? You simply have no arguments and keep beating that dead horse. No, the counter to elitism is not more elitism, but neither is not talking about it.
Second, I am not even sure what you are arguing about. I’m not masquerading anything. Try to grasp the concept of caring how other people feel, might make it easier to understand what I’m talking about.

And third, you seem to want to argue for the sake of arguing. I really don’t have time for that. Either argue with solid arguments or simply don’t. And leave ad hominem out of this. It just increases your chances of getting an infraction and has no other effect.

Heh, as someone who runs around solo fighting other players I can safely say that anytime you see me fighting anything past 2 people in my videos, Those players are not very good. Well at least in my ranger videos, thief is a bit different (how good players in a thief video are is determined by how many people i’m allowed to actually kill in that video, the more kills i’m allowed to get the worse the players are)

This game doesn’t reward the solo player, It esp in a 1vX fight, to win a 1vX fight your opponent really has to screw up….Anything past 2 and it gets to be rather silly in trying to down some players (cause at that point, they can basically instantly res the person)

I could make multiple videos of me actually getting zerged down, I don’t think anyone person who’s ever posted a video of his fights has claimed otherwise that they don’t get zerged at some point. Sure some classes die more then others (pretty much every class but Thief/Ele will see this happen) but that’s not the point of the videos.

They’re meant to be entertaining. That is why you don’t see a lot of videos of me zerg surfing shooting people with my bow, Because no one watches them, they’re boring..

Pretty much the bigger the odds you fight against, The better your video will do. That is why you see the 1 good player vs the 5 bad ones…Because it makes for an entertaining video to fight greater odds.

I once had an amazing french fry, it wasn’t even from france . Frech fries have never been the same.

… but I still eat them, because one french fry experience does not deter me from enjoying french fries even if the general experience isn’t as good.

Boy I miss that french fry

Xsorus.2507:

Heh, as someone who runs around solo fighting other players I can safely say that anytime you see me fighting anything past 2 people in my videos, Those players are not very good. Well at least in my ranger videos, thief is a bit different (how good players in a thief video are is determined by how many people i’m allowed to actually kill in that video, the more kills i’m allowed to get the worse the players are)

This game doesn’t reward the solo player, It esp in a 1vX fight, to win a 1vX fight your opponent really has to screw up….Anything past 2 and it gets to be rather silly in trying to down some players (cause at that point, they can basically instantly res the person)

I could make multiple videos of me actually getting zerged down, I don’t think anyone person who’s ever posted a video of his fights has claimed otherwise that they don’t get zerged at some point. Sure some classes die more then others (pretty much every class but Thief/Ele will see this happen) but that’s not the point of the videos.

They’re meant to be entertaining. That is why you don’t see a lot of videos of me zerg surfing shooting people with my bow, Because no one watches them, they’re boring..

Pretty much the bigger the odds you fight against, The better your video will do. That is why you see the 1 good player vs the 5 bad ones…Because it makes for an entertaining video to fight greater odds.

Hush you. The boards don’t take kindly to logical thought. Here we require the signature of both the poster’s physician and mother before you’re allowed to discredit them.

Remember what happened to your “Stealth is OP in WvW and I can prove it” thread?

Attic.1562:

Remember what happened to your “Stealth is OP in WvW and I can prove it” thread?

Hmm…. The end of culling and a nerf to stealth…. Keep posting good ideas Xsorus. ;-)