Guild Wars 2

was taking a keep in wvw had our zerg standing in the cap spot after killing the keep lord then enemy warriors came in and warbannered the keep lord up every time we killed him probably over 10 times which is kinda ridiculous
to me that’s almost like an exploit if you can keep ressing the lord like that
if there was maybe a limit on how many times you can do it or maybe a cooldown that would be cool
opinions….

Tornix.2180:

opinions….

Kill the banner man.

I dont think its something bad.I like that we are able to rez the keep lord back up. ususally we dont have a problem with that like u.so next time instead of standing all in the circle, have people watching the gates for incoming enemies and stay near dead lord.Very often our guild holds the bridge in hills while another group caps.

I thought warbanner only worked on downed, not dead, things.

Warbanner res to keep lord is really stupid and op.. sometimes keep fights go on forever because its impossible to cap with people suiciding for a warbanner res..

Is it intended? Don’t think so..

urzen.7096:

I thought warbanner only worked on downed, not dead, things.

NPC “death” is equivalent to PC downed (for NPCs who retain a corpse that can be revived). This is also why the rez speeds are similar, if not identical.

selan.8354:

I dont think its something bad.I like that we are able to rez the keep lord back up. ususally we dont have a problem with that like u.so next time instead of standing all in the circle, have people watching the gates for incoming enemies and stay near dead lord.Very often our guild holds the bridge in hills while another group caps.

this was an eb keep so a lot more open i was generalizing on how we where capping we had people holding the center while others defended and blah blah that wasn’t my point being able to res the lord that easily and as often as you like is a bit stupid

give him a downed penalty!
Every time, he goes down, he will get rezzed with 20% less hp :>

Tornix.2180:

this was an eb keep so a lot more open i was generalizing on how we where capping we had people holding the center while others defended and blah blah that wasn’t my point being able to res the lord that easily and as often as you like is a bit stupid

It’s not as often as you like. There’s a long cooldown, a cast time and a range consideration. It’ll also only work when planted (it’s a one shot).

Killing an NPC doesn’t gift you a keep, and I’m all in favour of game mechanics that don’t gift the brainless. Focus on the players, push them out. You only need a small number to cap, the rest should be ensuring that cap happens. If you’re all stood in the circle you probably don’t deserve to cap it. Kill the res’er, hold the chokes. Don’t drag the lord into the open to kill him; kill him away from where defenders are likely to arrive.

Pretty sure Guardians (Signet of Mercy) can do it too, but not tested.

Xirin.8593:

urzen.7096:

I thought warbanner only worked on downed, not dead, things.

NPC “death” is equivalent to PC downed (for NPCs who retain a corpse that can be revived). This is also why the rez speeds are similar, if not identical.

This is not true for stuff like Elixir R and Signet of Undeath.

People defending this never been in 80v80 fight inside of Garrison, because there you can clearly see how absurd it is. Defending group always has mesmer portals into outer Garrison, so there is constant stream of defenders. Lord room has main entrance, water gate portal and most importantly, ledge all around the room. You simply cant control all those places, especially against “Lord banner speced warriors” with Frenzy, Endure Pain and Balanced Stance, there is just no counter to that with even slight skill delay.

Yes, you can do certain counter measures, like try to control where lord dies, but warrior that is not completely brain dead will always find a way to get to him and Frenzy-Endure Pain-Stability insta cast banner.

What people also dont realize, problem isnt simply to kill lord again, problem is that reviving lord resets cap progress bar.

declan.3968:

Xirin.8593:

urzen.7096:

I thought warbanner only worked on downed, not dead, things.

NPC “death” is equivalent to PC downed (for NPCs who retain a corpse that can be revived). This is also why the rez speeds are similar, if not identical.

This is not true for stuff like Elixir R and Signet of Undeath.

I meant equivalent in terms of their mechanics, not skill interaction.

Parthis.2091:

Tornix.2180:

this was an eb keep so a lot more open i was generalizing on how we where capping we had people holding the center while others defended and blah blah that wasn’t my point being able to res the lord that easily and as often as you like is a bit stupid

It’s not as often as you like. There’s a long cooldown, a cast time and a range consideration. It’ll also only work when planted (it’s a one shot).

Killing an NPC doesn’t gift you a keep, and I’m all in favour of game mechanics that don’t gift the brainless. Focus on the players, push them out. You only need a small number to cap, the rest should be ensuring that cap happens. If you’re all stood in the circle you probably don’t deserve to cap it. Kill the res’er, hold the chokes. Don’t drag the lord into the open to kill him; kill him away from where defenders are likely to arrive.

Pretty sure Guardians (Signet of Mercy) can do it too, but not tested.

this isn’t about how to cap a keep okay forget the zerg the keep and all those factors just imagine a dead keep lord and 10 warriors one reses him he dies another one reses him straight away he dies another one reses him etc etc theres no cooldown on that

Tornix.2180:

Parthis.2091:

Tornix.2180:

this was an eb keep so a lot more open i was generalizing on how we where capping we had people holding the center while others defended and blah blah that wasn’t my point being able to res the lord that easily and as often as you like is a bit stupid

It’s not as often as you like. There’s a long cooldown, a cast time and a range consideration. It’ll also only work when planted (it’s a one shot).

Killing an NPC doesn’t gift you a keep, and I’m all in favour of game mechanics that don’t gift the brainless. Focus on the players, push them out. You only need a small number to cap, the rest should be ensuring that cap happens. If you’re all stood in the circle you probably don’t deserve to cap it. Kill the res’er, hold the chokes. Don’t drag the lord into the open to kill him; kill him away from where defenders are likely to arrive.

Pretty sure Guardians (Signet of Mercy) can do it too, but not tested.

this isn’t about how to cap a keep okay forget the zerg the keep and all those factors just imagine a dead keep lord and 10 warriors one reses him he dies another one reses him straight away he dies another one reses him etc etc theres no cooldown on that

Well yea… if the lord was dead alone.. without any players from the enemy side about.. would be OP. You can’t base whether something is OP or not on a situation which physically can’t happen in WvW. (i.e Lord dead with no enemies nearby). If there are enemies inside, it’s my belief that the fault lies with them and not the banner for not killing the warriors off. Now you could say that they suicide run the lord, well then stop them at the gates or any other location out of the very small rez radius a Warbanner has.

Now if you mean’t that there is 10 warriors, rezzing a lord and there IS a zerg inside…. you stop it by killing the warriors. o.0

oooooooh my god we had 20 people in and around cap stopping people from getting in and another 40 at the gate stopping their main forces coming in we blocked people killed people stopped them from getting in and everything that your supposed to do kind of hard between all the lag and people running everywhere to pick out a warrior thats going to banner the lord its not like everyone stands in a line and the warrior walks towards you its chaos okay theres the specifics now imagine 10 warriors somehow got through one after the other and bannered the lord up
no matter how hard you try to keep people out there will be the odd couple that get in after all its their keep they got the doors in kitten you people don’t get the point

KinkyWarrior.1879:

Tornix.2180:

Parthis.2091:

Tornix.2180:

this was an eb keep so a lot more open i was generalizing on how we where capping we had people holding the center while others defended and blah blah that wasn’t my point being able to res the lord that easily and as often as you like is a bit stupid

It’s not as often as you like. There’s a long cooldown, a cast time and a range consideration. It’ll also only work when planted (it’s a one shot).

Killing an NPC doesn’t gift you a keep, and I’m all in favour of game mechanics that don’t gift the brainless. Focus on the players, push them out. You only need a small number to cap, the rest should be ensuring that cap happens. If you’re all stood in the circle you probably don’t deserve to cap it. Kill the res’er, hold the chokes. Don’t drag the lord into the open to kill him; kill him away from where defenders are likely to arrive.

Pretty sure Guardians (Signet of Mercy) can do it too, but not tested.

this isn’t about how to cap a keep okay forget the zerg the keep and all those factors just imagine a dead keep lord and 10 warriors one reses him he dies another one reses him straight away he dies another one reses him etc etc theres no cooldown on that

Well yea… if the lord was dead alone.. without any players from the enemy side about.. would be OP. You can’t base whether something is OP or not on a situation which physically can’t happen in WvW. (i.e Lord dead with no enemies nearby). If there are enemies inside, it’s my belief that the fault lies with them and not the banner for not killing the warriors off. Now you could say that they suicide run the lord, well then stop them at the gates or any other location out of the very small rez radius a Warbanner has.

Now if you mean’t that there is 10 warriors, rezzing a lord and there IS a zerg inside…. you stop it by killing the warriors. o.0

Not sure what you meant by “small rez radius” because if a warrior is traited right, he can jump in with Endure Pain (2x cast) + Stability + Banner radius increase through trait line (I believe range is maxed out to about 1,200 if I recalled). That in itself is OP if they got suicide rezz warriors in the wait.

As one of the poster above mention, they should put a banner rezz penalty on NPC for each successive resurrection, or completely eliminate such bs in WvW.

That is what makes those battles epic.

It is fine as it is.

Some of the most fun fights were 3 ways on a bl garrison that we were trying to defend. Had a 6 hour defense once. That was a lot of fun.

Bean.2890:

Not sure what you meant by “small rez radius” because if a warrior is traited right, he can jump in with Endure Pain (2x cast) + Stability + Banner radius increase through trait line (I believe range is maxed out to about 1,200 if I recalled). That in itself is OP if they got suicide rezz warriors in the wait.

As one of the poster above mention, they should put a banner rezz penalty on NPC for each successive resurrection, or completely eliminate such bs in WvW.

You are just theory crafting a if and nerfing something just because a build can be made to do something really well is a bad idea.

Not all warriors are traited such and I would say most wouldn’t bother just to be able to banner res really well.

You guys defending this clearly don’t play in t1 or you lose your keeps a lot .This is over the top op.We in t1 eu get often involved in this kind of battles and after 3 hours of never wiping,yes 3 hours of straight fighting inside the lord room and over 50 times the lord get’s ressurected it is impossiblet to capture a keep close to a spawn.Servers in t1 are organized and do spec specially for this thing.Suicide lord ressing.Sure the bags are nice after 3 hours of fighting but is still frustrating that no matter how har you try is just impossible to stop it in a 100 vs 100 vs 100 fight.In the end we just have to give up or the fight lasts until people need lo log off.

This trait is ver the top stupid .No penalties whatsoever.No less hp after res,pad completely reseted and considering you only need 1 single ele at the time even downed in myst form to keep 100 people from capping is downright idiotic.I repeat there is no such strategy to kill invulnerable eles and stability/endure pain/break immobilize banner warriors even in 100 vs 1.It is basicly a system where even if your server wouldn’t fight at all ,they could hold and reset the pad indefinately sending only 1 person at the time inside.There are just no way to counter it and whoever says so you are welcome tier 1 and teach us.

Warbanner should rez dead players also, they will fix it that it will work as intended ! This is working as intended on npc but not on players atm.
TC had such hard time to do something else than zerg sticking that it takes them 3hours to capture KN garison and now they whines it’s OP lol, should start learning game mechanisms first then ^^
I was rezzing lord with warbanner and I am very tough to kill. We had good fun fight was epic and took ages and plenty bags for the keep you didn’t have it for free you must pay with blood lol.
And yes it’s a very specific build. For sure you learned something.

Also the capping system needs to change.It is ridiculopus that 1 person can hold the pad for 100.If you wiped on a defensive position deal with it,you deserve to lose the keep.The way Anet implemented this is so ridiculously bad.

Stealth and invulnerability can no longer lock the capture process since some old patch already.

Usually when this happens it’s because the attackers pulled the lord way away from the circle. If you kill him in the circle it’s a lot easier to defend him and the circle at the same time.

Also, nothing stops you from building siege in there. One superior ballista and/or arrow cart will help ensure you get the flip accomplished against a determined foe.

graverr.6473:

You guys defending this clearly don’t play in t1 or you lose your keeps a lot .This is over the top op.We in t1 eu get often involved in this kind of battles and after 3 hours of never wiping,yes 3 hours of straight fighting inside the lord room and over 50 times the lord get’s ressurected it is impossiblet to capture a keep close to a spawn.Servers in t1 are organized and do spec specially for this thing.Suicide lord ressing.Sure the bags are nice after 3 hours of fighting but is still frustrating that no matter how har you try is just impossible to stop it in a 100 vs 100 vs 100 fight.In the end we just have to give up or the fight lasts until people need lo log off.

This trait is ver the top stupid .No penalties whatsoever.No less hp after res,pad completely reseted and considering you only need 1 single ele at the time even downed in myst form to keep 100 people from capping is downright idiotic.I repeat there is no such strategy to kill invulnerable eles and stability/endure pain/break immobilize banner warriors even in 100 vs 1.It is basicly a system where even if your server wouldn’t fight at all ,they could hold and reset the pad indefinately sending only 1 person at the time inside.There are just no way to counter it and whoever says so you are welcome tier 1 and teach us.

I play in T1.

I’m fine with it as it is.

I thought you euros like the fight. Sounds like you’d rather PvD.

Here is a thought for everyone, just go play the game and quit trying to mess it up. This skill is fine as it is and even with a shorter cooldown, it is still a longish cool down and as I stated before, not every warrior is going to go with a theory craft build just to be good at res. There are other traits that the banner trait would replace that many would rather have while that banner is on cool down.

Take away the res, you give even more power to the attacking force. At least with the res, a smaller group has the option to hold out. Fortifications already don’t do enough for the defending force as it is, don’t need to screw defenders over completely.

Even still, you have enough warriors, you don’t need to trait.

You need to do a better job at taking the garrison. If you cannot take it, your problem.

That’s my Job in my guild I run in banner the lord run back to my zerg. focus that warrior running in and keep him CC’ed then you guys still have a dead lord

Titan.3472:

Warbanner should rez dead players also, they will fix it that it will work as intended ! This is working as intended on npc but not on players atm.
TC had such hard time to do something else than zerg sticking that it takes them 3hours to capture KN garison and now they whines it’s OP lol, should start learning game mechanisms first then ^^
I was rezzing lord with warbanner and I am very tough to kill. We had good fun fight was epic and took ages and plenty bags for the keep you didn’t have it for free you must pay with blood lol.
And yes it’s a very specific build. For sure you learned something.

You tried to say this on the matchup thread as well, at least 30-40 of us never died once in those 3 hours so blood was not paid with. In the end we set up at west inner and just waited to farm you.

On-topic: I do agree it needs to be nerfed somewhat, and I do like the downed penalty idea so you can banner res ~5 times but I do think it should remain in some form.

Imagine when people start using the other classes reses, that are on lower Cds, and on utility slots.