Guild Wars 2

I personally believe that the obsidian sanctum should be a non-pvp area. Majority of people go there to do the amazingly difficult jumping puzzle that i for 1 adore and try to do daily. However some people do not believe my philosophy and kill randomly. Imagine you are level 1 again and you heard of a cool jumping puzzle in WvW, not knowing where to go you wander around until you find someone with the patience to show you the way (this is usually what i do). The next day you come back to get your loot again, but this time there is someone else this person is waiting at the chest to kill anyone who comes near. Lacking the skills and experience to kill this person you die and have to restart only to find he is still there and die again. Now Most people get frustrated and quit because they cant do anything or excel in the game because of this person who finds it funny to kill people after they have a hope of getting something that they want/need. I utterly despise these people and hope my testament has stopped you (person reading this) from killing whilst in the Obsidian Sanctum.
Have a great day!

(In before all the “learn to WvW” posts.)

It’s been noted over the last decade (at least), that 10% of an MMO’s population (and for this post I will call GW2 one), is comprised of gankers.

These are the folks that enjoy hanging out in places where they can take advantage of terrain in a way to compensate for their lack of skill. They also enjoy upsetting players.

There was a time, in the early days of GW2, when real WvW players would respect fellow players coming through the jump puzzle.

If you’ve seen any of the posts on this forum, you would understand those days are long gone, although a few of us still adhere to those early values.

Tell Anet not to put pve stuff in a PvP environment would be a better solution.

WvW forum seems to be same topics rehashed over and over.

Isaac.6041:

WvW forum seems to be same topics rehashed over and over.

Most forums, actually. The dungeon forum made a bingo card out of it. However I digress:

The appeal of obsidian sanctum is that it is a PVP place. There are very few areas in the game where you have

#1: Large, maze like area.
#2: Tightly knit variety of environments.
#3: Open ended PVP.
#4: Lack of overall objectives.

And this makes the obsidian sanctum an unpredictable place, filled with danger and tension, honor and betrayal, and shifting advantages. Heck, there are even spots that grant long duration stealth if you want to avoid most of the combat.

Though I have to ask what is so horrible about PVP that so many players are averse to it. It isn’t like in old games, where the victor looted your corpse for everything you owned.

Obisidian Sanctum is designed to have PvP on it. Everyone who joins the Obsidian Sanctum knows that it is a PvP area. It’s what makes it different from the other jumping puzzles.

I like dungeon tokens but I don’t like doing dungeons, and I don’t ask to drop dungeon tokens in WvW. If you wanna do the Obsidian Sanctum, you must deal with the PvP.

arcticface.5372:

I personally believe that the obsidian sanctum should be a non-pvp area.

That’s fine.

In exchange can we make the soon to be remade Lions Arch into a PvP area?

Ran into this issue today. I have a simple belief: Obsidian Sanctum is a jump puzzle first, and a PvP area second.

It’s really annoying to put so much effort into the puzzle, only to get knocked off or killed at the end.

I was out trying to do the achieve today (and got it, first run through). I play a necromancer on Blackgate; at the moment, our server is not exactly favorably regarded by our fellow tournament matchups, which I understand.

What I do is work my way through, and I don’t attack first. Actually when I got to the dark room today, I ran across a little asura from another server who got lost, and I helped him find his way through by lighting things up (without attacking or putting down red circles) and pointing in the right direction to go. Got the little guy through, hooray! He scampered ahead. I got to the chandelier room, and got attacked by a ranger, clearly hoping to get a free kill.

I left his corpse two feet away from where I feared him off the edge.

I had another thief take exception to my presence; I left his corpse ten feet away from that.

I had a third thief attempt to resurrect the former, and left his entrails scattered across the wall.

With that taken care of, I proceeded to quietly and cheerfully go about solving my puzzle.

Funny thing, the other players in there suddenly decided to leave me alone…

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Though I have to ask what is so horrible about PVP that so many players are averse to it. It isn’t like in old games, where the victor looted your corpse for everything you owned.

Successful pvp is the antithesis of ‘play how I want’ builds. Healing power ranger is fine and dandy but it ain’t gonna kill kitten, and ‘play how I want’ player gets frustrated by this.

I got ganked in the OS last night while looking for some duels, maybe I QQ’d to myself but I never whispered anyone in rage, it’s a PVP area after-all. Srs Business.

Obsidian is the endgame jumping puzzle. If you want an easy ride call your frind. Its an mmo not a single player game.

arcticface.5372:

and try to do daily.

If it is so easy that people can do it every day, I suppose PvP is not a matter.

arcticface.5372:

Wall of QQ and fail logic

2 Things:
-Not expecting pvp in a pvp zone is ignorant
-Paragraphs

One of the things I like about Obsidian Sanctum is that you never quite know what you’re going to get.

I’ve seen everything from players quietly getting on with doing the puzzle without anyone attacking anyone to players from different servers helping each other through to all out war across the whole map, all traps manned, snipers in all the best spots, necros ready to fear you off ledges etc. etc.

On one memorable occasion I got to the edge of the gladiator pit area (after the dark room) and stood with a group of people from all 3 servers waiting for those down below to finish fighting and leave. With much pointing, laughing and shaking heads since we couldn’t actually talk.

And you know what? I’ve enjoyed each of those, for different reasons.

Admittedly sometimes I just want to be able to go there, run through, get my achievement/chest and leave. And if that’s the case I make sure to go early in the morning. It doesn’t have to be super-early, 9 or 10 am works well. There’s usually very few people about and they almost always just want to get it done.

But honestly if the traps are unmanned and there are no aggressive players about the puzzle is very simple. Aside from a few tricky jumps it’s pretty straight forward once you know the route. So if that was your only option it would be a fairly boring puzzle.

It’s much more exciting to go in with a group and have to fight your way through, dodge active traps etc. and it really feels like an achievement if you’re able to get through to the chest.

Rofl!

1) there are 20+ PvE JPS and 2 PvP ones, if you are afraid of PvP take a PvE one, some of them are even more challenging with respect to pure jumping

2) I can only imagine that you want the box content without PvP. But do you really think you would get BoH and siege out of it if it would move to PvE?

Here’s what you do:
1. Join a WvW guild.
2. Get acquainted with said WvW guild.
3. Work your way to the top.
4. Upon guild leader’s death, take over the guild.
5. Bring guildmates into Obsidian Sanctum, murder those who murdered you.

Good Luck!

Exactly what above said. You have lots of PvE JPs. Hands off of one of few we have in WvW where we can gank or jump with some adrenaline when expecting enemy behind every corner.

If anything, they should add more PvE content where players can fight (easiest way is adding it in WvW). Some good old stress and fear from ambush always makes MMO more exciting.

I always wait for meaningful discussion in the WvW thread and when I see this (beaten to death) thread topic I cringe. What’s with people not wanting a challenge or worst yet, not understanding that something is supposed to be a challenge? Why do so many people want things handed to them?
As you learned to do the jumping puzzle, you must learn to defeat a worthy opponent. They’re guarding your loot, how badly do you want it? That’s part of the dynamic and unique elements of Obsidian Sanctum. It would be sad day to see the OS be changed due to complaints like this, especially when there are dozens of jumping puzzles that don’t require pvp. Not to mention that the OS does not give exclusive rewards, it gives the same ol greens and blues you get from any other JP and badges rain from the sky in EOTM and achievement chests.

arcticface.5372:

I personally believe that the obsidian sanctum should be a non-pvp area. Majority of people go there to do the amazingly difficult jumping puzzle that i for 1 adore and try to do daily.

Ok lets think about this for a second, there is like what 30 PVE jumping puzzles you can go and do freely without worrying about being killed by a player, and there are 4 in PVP enviroments that have an element of danger attached to them. Now can you see what arenanet has done here? they threw in something different, this game is not all about PVE, some of us want to kill eachother, and I will kill anyone I see in a jumping puzzle and have fun doing that.

arcticface.5372:

I personally believe that the obsidian sanctum should be a non-pvp area.

There is a problem with this though – right now the Obsidian Sanctum is the only place where WvWers (or PvEers), which don’t like the building limitations of classical PvP (or the PvP-Balance itself), can actually have duels without impacting their server’s overall WvW performance in a negative way. This is even more so the case for GvGs, which where the original reason for adding the Arena-Structure within OS.

arcticface.5372:

Majority of people go there to do the amazingly difficult jumping puzzle that i for 1 adore and try to do daily. However some people do not believe my philosophy and kill randomly. Imagine you are level 1 again and you heard of a cool jumping puzzle in WvW, not knowing where to go you wander around until you find someone with the patience to show you the way (this is usually what i do).

same here. I never Attack players there unless i’am attacked, and even if i get attacked, i will usually try to discern if my attacker is a troll (which means he’s going to die. often.) or just an trigger happy uplevel not understanding that attacking a duelist on lvl 80 isn’t the brightest thing to do (in which case i add them to the group and warn them, explaining that most players would and will easily kill them if they do this). Why should i anyway? I mean, there is nothing to gain: Killing people won’t give my Server any advantage, the Badges of Honor and Blueprints they gain through the chest are negible, and the terrain gives a pretty unfair disatvantage to classes heavily relying on LoS, while giving huge advantages to other classes in terms of trolling – so most of the time i couldn’t even feel good about killing someone there (it’s practically as dirty and skill-absent as a PvP Situation can get).

arcticface.5372:

The next day you come back to get your loot again, but this time there is someone else this person is waiting at the chest to kill anyone who comes near. Lacking the skills and experience to kill this person you die and have to restart only to find he is still there and die again.

As i said, i can relate to that. Sure, objectively speaking those gankers have every right to do what they do; This is a PvP Area after all, and i will accept that – that doesn’t mean i have to like it though. During the last Months there seems to be a huge increase in what i would consider “cheesy” builds (very effective without requiring appropiate effort on part of the player); this is noticable in the Arena while dueling, but somewhat counterbalanced by the “cheese vs. cheese” situations. This is not the case for "Troll vs. [PvEplayer or WvWZergling] " situations. Espcially the main-PvE players probably won’t be running around with cheesy PvP builds, and find themselves at a severe disatvantage at both build and experience when facing the standart-troll utilizing some facerolly cheesebuild in combination with terrain advantages.

kmaeropa.3986:

What’s with people not wanting a challenge or worst yet, not understanding that something is supposed to be a challenge?

Killing badly prepared players with cheesy builds, using build-specific terrain advantages isn’t a challenge at all. It’s no challenge for the troll as he usually has everything laid out for him in such a situation, and a onesided beating for whatever poor nonCheese-nonPvPer is on the receiving end. This holds true especially when the attacked player is bad at jumping – most dedicated trolls will do the jumps while sleeping, and simply get back to the former player before he can put a meaningfull distance between himself and the troll.

kmaeropa.3986:

As you learned to do the jumping puzzle, you must learn to defeat a worthy opponent.

Let’s see:

• On one Hand we usually got the harmless PvEr (or Zergling) not fitted for 1vs1 Situations – i fail to see how those can be counted as “worthy opponents”. They’re more like lambs on their way into a slaughterhouse.
• On the other Hand we got the troll. In my experience (and i’am in OS pretty much every day) most of them run top-notch-cheese. Which also isn’t exactly what i would call a “worthy” opponent. More something along the lines of “can’t PvP for my life, need a build to carry the burden”. Sure, there are many trolls that just suck so badly at PvPing, that they still manage to lose despite using their cheese and terrain advantages (PU Condi Mesmer and perpl Engi losing against a duo of PvErs with inappropiate builds for vs-player combat!? how does that even work!?), but the only option to see them as “worthy” opponents would be to join the cheese-train – at least temporary.

41 PvE puzzles
4 PvP puzzles

WAAAAAA NOT FAIR, SHOULE BE 45 PvE and 0 PvP

phirefox.2568:

kmaeropa.3986:

What’s with people not wanting a challenge or worst yet, not understanding that something is supposed to be a challenge?

Killing badly prepared players with cheesy builds, using build-specific terrain advantages isn’t a challenge at all. It’s no challenge for the troll as he usually has everything laid out for him in such a situation, and a onesided beating for whatever poor nonCheese-nonPvPer is on the receiving end. This holds true especially when the attacked player is bad at jumping – most dedicated trolls will do the jumps while sleeping, and simply get back to the former player before he can put a meaningfull distance between himself and the troll.

kmaeropa.3986:

As you learned to do the jumping puzzle, you must learn to defeat a worthy opponent.

Let’s see:

• On one Hand we usually got the harmless PvEr (or Zergling) not fitted for 1vs1 Situations – i fail to see how those can be counted as “worthy opponents”. They’re more like lambs on their way into a slaughterhouse.
• On the other Hand we got the troll. In my experience (and i’am in OS pretty much every day) most of them run top-notch-cheese. Which also isn’t exactly what i would call a “worthy” opponent. More something along the lines of “can’t PvP for my life, need a build to carry the burden”. Sure, there are many trolls that just suck so badly at PvPing, that they still manage to lose despite using their cheese and terrain advantages (PU Condi Mesmer and perpl Engi losing against a duo of PvErs with inappropiate builds for vs-player combat!? how does that even work!?), but the only option to see them as “worthy” opponents would be to join the cheese-train – at least temporary.

And to the slaughterhouse they go. That’s the fun unpredictability of WvW and the OS. The same opposing player who ignored someone is the same opposing player that could knock some one off a cliff or gank them. It’s not supposed to be a challenge for the griefers/gankers, it’s supposed to be a challenge for the PvEr or anyone else who does it. You didn’t get it this time so what do you do? You gear up, get friends, join a guild who does these things. I don’t think the answer should be to completely overhaul the characteristics of OS because players don’t want to participate in a component of the map.

+1 as long as we also turn PvE jumping puzzles into PvP zones.

Ragnar.4257:

41 PvE puzzles
4 PvP puzzles

WAAAAAA NOT FAIR, SHOULE BE 45 PvE and 0 PvP

Pretty much what I was thinking.

Personally, I never initiate attacks in Obsidian Sanctum. I go in under the presumption that people in there just want to complete the JP (but I instantly go on the alert if I see enemy players standing in suspicious locations), and usually the truce is observed. However, it would also be foolish not to take precautions against unexpected attack. Bring blocks, stability, and cheese-off skills like Fear, launch, push/pull to discourage people from attacking you. (Sometimes all it takes is a Fear that doesn’t even send them off an edge that sends your attacker scurrying for cover.)

Part of the challenge/uniqueness of Obsidian Sanctum is the fact that it is a PvP zone. The traps scattered throughout the JP are also a clear indication that PvP is welcome there. That said, I do agree that players using cheap tricks to troll other players in there (pulls in specific locations that make you fall and die, for example) is low and unsporting.

If there’s somebody camping the JP, you can always leave and come back later. If the troll has nobody to bother, they’ll get bored and leave eventually. 1 hour+ of sitting in an empty JP is your most effective weapon against them.

hmm. heres my take.move the traps to dif locations each day like they do ori ore.that’ll make it tons of fun

arcticface.5372:

I personally believe that the obsidian sanctum should be a non-pvp area. Majority of people go there to do the amazingly difficult jumping puzzle that i for 1 adore and try to do daily.

I find it more interesting to discuss why people even try to do that jumping puzzle daily…