Guild Wars 2

Since WvW is primarily a PvP activity it just feels appropriate that actual PvP should contribute towards the overall score.

Just like in sPvP really where the majority of the score comes from holding contested points but the kills add a little flavor to the mix.

Something like +1 score for every kill your server scores against the others would seem appropriate.

It would also have the added benefit of actually making peak-hour play just a little more meaningful as opposed to night-capping.

Do you know how high those scores would get?

I second this motion.

lol imagine the castle clamming room i cant imagine the points because of the lag that’s there lol.

That would be poor as a game mechanic, as that would discourage the necessary head on assaults that are required in order to take things like SM. There are a lot of casualties from a side trying to get ground back from someone who is dominating them, this would only put those ahead even further ahead with little chance for the losers with little to no ground to recover from.

Wouldn’t work and people would become even more afraid to fight. If anything we should encourage people to defend and possibly get killed in the process. A lot of the time people will just shoot projectiles at each other hoping one of them will miraculously kill the enemy player.

Encourage more zerg mentality?

No thanks.

You really think people are going to care much about a +1 score when keeps and supply camps are giving your realm around 50 or 100 points every 15 min?

I don’t think it would have a huge effect on the way people play.

I also don’t see how it encourages more zerging.

I disagree. I want WvW to be a world domination / war game. OP’s suggestion would be a step towards arcade shooters. (A game genre that I loathe)

Brilliant idea. Obviously the ratio of kills to points would need to be adjusted so that defending/taking structures is still relevant. I love this idea, because it would create a need for people to really become more organized and stop feeding the other server. Probably will not be implemented but still an awesome thought.

Counting kills via some method and making it impactful in the WvWvW score totals at some level would be a huge step in the right direction. It would help make up for coverage discrepancies for those servers that lack it providing they do a better job when they have people online, while at the same time not punishing those people that play off prime time hours and spend more time PvDooring.

The people that say it would only encourage more zerging…. no it wouldn’t. You can’t encourage zerging any more than it already is via the objectives and keeps. If you could at least make a difference by killing more of your enemy than they kill you, I believe it would actually cause more people to roam in havok squads and small gank groups (and in counter groups to challenge their speed and mobility away from the zerg).

Master of Timespace.2548:

I disagree. I want WvW to be a world domination / war game. OP’s suggestion would be a step towards arcade shooters. (A game genre that I loathe)

No you are wrong and being short sighted. If done correctly, it wouldn’t stop the world domination aspect of things. I don’t think anyone would want to replace the current system with kills only, just supplement it in some fashion.

For example, if you are a server with a great NA presence in tier, but no oceanic presence constantly fighting a server with superior coverage… it doesn’’t matter what you do or how well you play during NA prime hours, you are going to lose every week due to lack of coverage. Implemented correctly, with the proper weight, this may at least allow you to keep the score close and give yourself a chance to counter the other teams coverage with your superior prime time play.

It would be interesting to have this feature, but not in the general score. It would be more a window you can open, and you see how kills the server did

SaruTen.9531:

It would be interesting to have this feature, but not in the general score. It would be more a window you can open, and you see how kills the server did

See that, I would oppose that. Why? It serves no purpose outside of inciting even more forum flaming about coverage.

“Look at the scoreboard we won!”

“Whatever we got more kills, you guys are scrubs and can only kill doors”

“Oh yeah… blah blah”

No. It needs to count in some fashion enough to mean something.

They should add “Culling Score” too then.
And “Door Killing Score”.

And maybe the server with the highest k/d would win copies of CoD: Black Ops 2 for everyone?

I could see people deciding to not take risks if the scores are close… can’t fully support this interesting idea.

All it would do is encourage turtling, servers would grab keeps,towers and zerg train closest supply camp fortify for the next week and any server that couldnt do competive coverage 24/7 would be toast.

If they could factor this into the overall score it would be a good idea, as well as scoring points for successfully defending points. At the moment the winner is decided by whoever can score more points when the other servers are asleep or at work, as they can clock up 400 points per tick from 4am to 2-3pm and then it doesn’t matter how much you dominate during primetime they will just come along later, take it all back pvD and then watch themselves build up 10-20k lead before it’s primetime again.

They would need to get the balance right and that would mean changing scores for other objectives- such as escorting a dolyak, taking/defending a checkpoint, taking or defending or destroying nodes, etc so that EVERYTHING that your side does contributes to your score in some way.

In short, a complete overhaul of the wvw system which probably won’t happen.

While they are there they could remove trebs and introduce the mobile cannon idea, as trebs firing on 4 towers from SM which cannot be touched short of taking SM is such a bad game design…

I’d say something like 100 kills = 1 point, then it contribute, but it’s not a factor that decides the outcome of the match

If you change the incentives of a game you can change the way people play the game entirely.

If player kills counted towards the overall score, and if each kill counted for enough points that on aggregate kill counts could sway the overall outcome of a match then I imagine people would slowly become much more risk averse when playing the game.

At first glance this may seem like a good thing but the most risk averse way to play this game is by running around in very large groups to take advantage of the game mechanics such as culling, downed state, aoe limit and combo fields.

Right now running around with 5-10 people is no big deal because dying to a much larger group doesn’t matter. But if each and every one of those deaths could ultimately impact the final score then I imagine you’d see even fewer small man groups and even more 20+ groups running around.

I think the goal for WvW design should be to disproportionately reward high risk behavior and either punish or add steep diminishing returns for engaging in low risk behavior and I don’t see how adding points for kills absent other major changes to the fundamental game mechanics would accomplish that goal.

You have to be very careful when you change the mechanics of WvW, or you risk destroyng it.

You swtor people…..remember Illum?

I disagree. While you are technically right about risk aversion, I am not so sure it is completely applicable in a game where the entire premise of entertainment revolves around fighting other players.

Rinzler.8072:

You have to be very careful when you change the mechanics of WvW, or you risk destroyng it.

You swtor people…..remember Illum?

What about Ilum? People zerging only to get dailies done, then logging out because it served no purpose and the game engine and servers couldn’t come even remotely close to handling it. Not sure what you are getting at with your statement to be honest. It isn’t even close to applicable.

Bad idea imo.

extra char

Dee Jay.2460:

You really think people are going to care much about a +1 score when keeps and supply camps are giving your realm around 50 or 100 points every 15 min?

I don’t think it would have a huge effect on the way people play.

I also don’t see how it encourages more zerging.

I guarantee, if they made kills contribute one point for every death, kills would end up being more important than a lot of towers and even keeps. It’s not uncommon to see hundred of deaths in a 15 minute period when sieging or defending a keep.

If kills count, then I would expect the WVW become a killing game. If 1 server dominate the tier, 3rd rank server will be more difficult to recover since gate camping will be meaningful.

Is also make SM like meaningless in some higher tier because it is easy to kill > 100 ppl within 15min when attacking SM. In tier 1 / 2 reset day, EB SM almost hv endless attack in 24 hr.

I think OP may be missing some different between PVP and WVW, PVP is purely killing game, WVW is more force on strategy, resources, tower / keep / supply. Encourage pure killing will push away ppl from the primary WVW purpose.

The current state of WvW dictates that the server with the most coverage across all time slots will win. It doesn’t matter how you play when you are online or how successful you are in one time slot, if you are fighting people that have a superior numbers advantage most of any given 24 hour period. You will lose no matter what you do each and every time.

Pretty obvious ‘something’ has to change in WvW.

Most of the changes I see people propose would punish players in other time slots by reducing the effort of their actions. For example, making points count less for holding objectives when there is huge population imbalance. This isn’t fair to them.

Likewise it is not ‘fair’ to players during a server’s prime time period currently, because they get ‘punished’ for something this is out of their control. They can fight hard all night and do extremely well, only to have all that work undone because they can’t field the same numbers during the other 18 hours of a given day.

Something is going to have to give at some point. Counting kills/deaths (in some method) would help prime time players be awarded for their effort without punishing off peak players. The trick is doing it in a balanced manner and doing it right.

Shiren.9532:

Dee Jay.2460:

You really think people are going to care much about a +1 score when keeps and supply camps are giving your realm around 50 or 100 points every 15 min?

I don’t think it would have a huge effect on the way people play.

I also don’t see how it encourages more zerging.

I guarantee, if they made kills contribute one point for every death, kills would end up being more important than a lot of towers and even keeps. It’s not uncommon to see hundred of deaths in a 15 minute period when sieging or defending a keep.

Well I think 100 kills for one fraction within 15 minutes might be pushing it a little. It may happen occasionally and that’s fine, but I don’t see it happening consistently.

The thing is, even in a Zerg vs. Zerg clash…which is fairly uncommon in an open field there really aren’t that many people dying. Even if a 30 man zerg, which is quite sizable overruns a 20 man zerg (medium sized) normally half of them might escape.

So that nets one team 10 kills. Assuming that happens twice within 15 minutes then that’s 20.

If you add the kills the other faction is also scroing the net difference grows smaller and smaller.

On average I estimate I die about once every 30 minutes or so in WvW and I assume this is similar for most players. So while there may be spikes I don’t think the kills would be anywhere near as influential as people here seem to think.

Especially not if you take the counter-kills into account.

It’s really quite similar to sPvP. Kills may score your 5 points for the team but in the end it’s always the team with the better node-control that wins.

I imagine it would work against outmaned servers and those playing against strong, coordinated guild zergs.

Iris Ng.9845:

I imagine it would work against outmaned servers and those playing against strong, coordinated guild zergs.

Perhaps, but out manned servers already have everything else working against them. Implementing something like this would help some out manned and out coveraged servers at least ‘attempt’ to level the playing field when it comes to scoring via better play.

God NO.

There is already an issue with spies and such from enemy servers, imagine how many people would boost kills in some small corner of a map?
Way too much potential for abuse, and not a good mechanic to add to a WvW game type. This should just be in PvP.

Winfernal.9208:

They should add “Culling Score” too then.
And “Door Killing Score”.

And maybe the server with the highest k/d would win copies of CoD: Black Ops 2 for everyone?

I support this.

I like this idea cause our 5 man group must have a lifetime 7:1 KD ratio.

Horrible Idea

It would promote spawn camping to an extent you wouldn’t believe. There would be groups outside of all 3 exits of your base in the borderlands that aren’t yours just to kill everyone since it would contribute.

The only way to get past that situation would be to run in a large group of people or zerg. Not everyone runs with a big group all the time.

No, as soon as it would count it would change how people act. Probably they’d start camping choke points.

What an awful idea. Encourage spawn camping more yeah? Hell the entire game mode would be transformed into one giant camp fest.