Guild Wars 2

A fundamental issue with WvW is that population is the most important factor in the scoring. Numbers give stronger combat strength and coverage, and as a result of servers with higher WvW populations have enormous advantages over those with lower.

This is an unavoidable issue due to the open world nature of WvW, one which has destroyed fair competition in the scoring system. And now there are plans to reward the top servers in this new league system?

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers. Even if servers on lower tier servers earn extra points when playing against higher tier ones, the end result will still be heavily tainted by the population imbalances.

WvW just isn’t designed for fair competition, so why design rewards which act like it was? Get rid of the server based rewards and instead give equal rewards to everyone who completed the meta achievement.

Bri.8354:

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers.

False. There are many options, however Anet hasn’t even done a test run with any of them. It’s not lack of way, it’s lack of will.

May the blobbing and nightcapping continue, hope you all enjoy your free ego booster kthxbai

DevonCarver.5370:

Walabone.6713:

I hope you take into consideration adding achievements that encourage zergs to disperse. Lets not have another WvExp situation.

Although, all in all, I’m not enthusiastic about this new system. I fail to understand the concept of “competition” that you hope to instill, when the playing field is inherently unbalanced. Numbers win everything. How is that a fair competition?

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”. There are servers with more people, there are servers with better organizations and that will always be the case..

Bri.8354:

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers. .

Did you play WOW? A game which rewards points to attain gear and of which the numbers are always equal due to queues so mostly it’s decided by skill…and how did them forums look? It’s been an endless QQ fest on those boards since release, haha.

No different here… online gamers will always have something to gripe about…it’s what we do.

Chiolas.1326:

Bri.8354:

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers.

False. There are many options, however Anet hasn’t even done a test run with any of them. It’s not lack of way, it’s lack of will.

May the blobbing and nightcapping continue, hope you all enjoy your free ego booster kthxbai

I was talking more about how the league point system cannot be fair when it is built around the current scoring system that heavily favors higher population servers. If they revamp the system I’m sure they could come up with something that benefits numbers less, but as bradderzh points out, WvW competition is not meant to be fair, so for that reason we shouldn’t be rewarding the top servers.

Bri.8354:

A fundamental issue with WvW is that population is the most important factor in the scoring. Numbers give stronger combat strength and coverage, and as a result of servers with higher WvW populations have enormous advantages over those with lower.

This is an unavoidable issue due to the open world nature of WvW, one which has destroyed fair competition in the scoring system. And now there are plans to reward the top servers in this new league system?

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers. Even if servers on lower tier servers earn extra points when playing against higher tier ones, the end result will still be heavily tainted by the population imbalances.

WvW just isn’t designed for fair competition, so why design rewards which act like it was? Get rid of the exclusive server based rewards and instead give rewards to guilds and individuals based on how much they preformed via things like meta achievements.

Is their a list of the rewards out yet?

bradderzh.2378:

DevonCarver.5370:

Walabone.6713:

I hope you take into consideration adding achievements that encourage zergs to disperse. Lets not have another WvExp situation.

Although, all in all, I’m not enthusiastic about this new system. I fail to understand the concept of “competition” that you hope to instill, when the playing field is inherently unbalanced. Numbers win everything. How is that a fair competition?

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”. There are servers with more people, there are servers with better organizations and that will always be the case..

Organization and open field “skill” doesn’t mean jack kitten when your server has a coverage gap that the other servers don’t. Why is this so hard to understand?

Bri.8354:

Chiolas.1326:

Bri.8354:

There’s just no way to create a fair scoring system, one which determines the victor by skill over numbers.

False. There are many options, however Anet hasn’t even done a test run with any of them. It’s not lack of way, it’s lack of will.

May the blobbing and nightcapping continue, hope you all enjoy your free ego booster kthxbai

I was talking more about how the league point system cannot be fair when it is built around the current scoring system that heavily favors higher population servers. If they revamp the system I’m sure they could come up with something that benefits numbers less, but as bradderzh points out, WvW competition is not meant to be fair, so for that reason we shouldn’t be rewarding the top servers.

You could say the same thing about servers with a huge PvE population around the clock. Is it fair to someone on ET that they can’t farm meta-events all day and night (WITHOUT guesting) like a player on TC/JQ/BG/SoR can?

Not to mention the distinct lack of GOOD rewards for WvW, just a ton of low-grade crap that is hardly worth the vendor price. Go farm PvE for 1 hour, then get in a WvW zerg for an hour and compare the drops. I guarantee you you’ll make a considerable amount more as for a loot/rewards go in PvE.

I for one am glad that they’re making the attempt to reward WvW players.

When results are based purely on coverage of course they aren’t fair. It seems ridiculous that it appears we will get personal rewards based on where our server finishes in these new leagues.

No but life isn’t fair.

morrolan.9608:

When results are based purely on coverage of course they aren’t fair. It seems ridiculous that it appears we will get personal rewards based on where our server finishes in these new leagues.

Any reward for doing well in WvW over the course of a week would be better than the current reward for doing well or winning week after week.

Numbers are an obvious issue they need to deal with, but are probably incapable of figuring out how to do so, despite there being so many simple ways to do it. The other issue is that even if you do not participate in WvW you still get the reward for your servers success. Apparently that is the way MMO’s are played. It’s all new to me. This is my first fully fledged MMO. Not overly impressed. Pretty sure I won’t play an MMO for a long time after I’m done with this one.

Honestly, I hope that the leagues won’t really change the way we play too much, other than put the worlds into smaller overall pools of realms. It really depends on what exactly the rewards will be; if it’s literally just a lump of WXP and a few fancy stomps, I doubt people will be too worried about moving servers to try to get that.

Hopefully, they stay really invested in changing how actually participating in WvW offers rewards.

Well, from reading what anet has been saying about this, I think it is more like you get better loot for participating in wvwvw, and if your server wins, the people who did so and so in wvwvw will get so and so. Like say, you have to kill 5k people for the server reward to count. Kill 5k people, and you get a golden finisher if your server places first. Kill 5k people and you get a silver finisher if your server places second. etc.
At least that is what I interpret this as.

sostronk.8167:

The other issue is that even if you do not participate in WvW you still get the reward for your servers success.

Nope. You have to complete a WvW meta achievement over the course of 7 weeks. That’s what Mr. Carver said in the bigger “Complaining about league” thread.

Are league rewards fair? I have no idea as does no body else because they have not been implemented yet….

Get over it.

kingcragus.6810:

Are league rewards fair? I have no idea as does no body else because they have not been implemented yet….

Get over it.

By the time it’s implemented and people experience the “well thought out” league, there’s only ghosts and flies in WvW…

If Anet wants to rewards those who blobs less, perhaps make the maps 10x larger so blobs won’t effectively cap as well? If Anet wants to show why they think everyone has similar population, show a rough estimated amount of people on servers instead? Don’t give exact numbers. But 1 = 0-19 people, 2 = 20-29, 3 = 30-39… etc. It gives everyone an idea of how fair the matchup is going to be. I’m sure the skilled players with 20 or so be willing to duke it out against 30 or so players. Not 10 vs 80 or something that outrageous.

From the recent news post:

“We’ve broken the NA region into 2 leagues of 12 worlds each and the EU region into 3 leagues of 9 worlds each. The worlds in each league will compete with each other over the course of 7 weeks for a number of prizes based on their performance in each matchup and their performance over the course of the season.”

“Each world will be matched up with each other world in their league at least once over the course of the season. 1st place in each matchup will gain the world 5 points, 2nd place 3 points, and 3rd place 1 point. At the conclusion of the season, the worlds will be ranked in order of the total number of points they’ve acquired and all players who have completed the season long meta-achievement will be given prizes based on that ranking.”

“The winning world in each league will unlock a stack of supply dolyak finishers for their use in WvW and PvP. 1st place in the gold league will get a gold dolyak, 1st place in the silver league a silver dolyak, and 1st place in the bronze league a bronze dolyak. Every player will be rewarded with WvW account bonus chests based on the weekly results.”

From this its pretty clear that the lower population servers won’t stand a chance against the higher ones.

Rewards for server performance also seem to be more than just a finisher, although they haven’t gone into detail about what players will get from these.

I agree, WvW is not, and will not be, or supposed to be always fair and balanced, and I feel Anet should stop treating it as if it were. Lot of common rules/conventions do not apply when you strip away the premise of a ‘fair fight’, and they seem to be neglecting that vital characteristic of the game type a bit too much. That to me is why WvW feels, while it can be quite fun at times, far from a well polished/finished game yet. Most of the rules and features are designed as if each match up will be fairly balanced and even. The game does little to keep itself engaging and less frustrating on one-sided scenarios, which it is supposed to be often played in.(we have outmanned buff and breakout events, but…. i think we can all agree they are far from enough :P)

And now they are trying to host a big competitive event with visible rewards attached to it.(however small that reward is isn’t really the point) While I do sincerely appreciate the effort to renew some attention and hype for WvW, I honestly do not think WvW is anywhere near ready for that sort of things to work.

Not to mention that systematically matching up servers with up to 11 rank gaps, BEFORE having proper rubber band mechanics, is very hard to imagine as a good decision. We have enough people complaining about random match ups every week, how will this help, if not make things worse?

I think it’d be cool if you could join a team – your home world doesn’t matter anymore, you’re fighting for this world now. But then it wouldn’t be “World vs World” anymore.

I can get behind a push to find more ways to reward players for playing WvW to bring it in line with PvE but a league system isn’t the way to do that. It rewards server stacking and select servers, not WvW participation. WvW isn’t balanced and competition is very one sided (especially in NA). Many players are going to be left out regardless of how they play simply because they are on the wrong server. That’s the wrong way to reward people.

If they wanted to reward people for WvW, the primary rewards should be for completing WvW daily objectives (capture supply camps, capture keeps, capture towers, gain bloodlust etc) that players can do competitively across any server rather than requiring them to be on the most stacked server with the best coverage. WvW rewards should be for everyone, not for the most stacked and the conveniently placed 13th/14th ranked servers.