Guild Wars 2

I had a hard time trying to think of a Topic Title, so I hope that gets the general idea across. I know a lot of players do not share this opinion of WvW, however I know a good number of my friends do. I find that I do really like WvW, I in fact leveled my character SOLELY for the purpose for WvW. I geared him up, and was all ready to go… until I found out the only thing in WvW I could really do; was follow a zerg around and attack base after base after tower after tower.

It’s not like I don’t mind zerging every now and then, however I hate when I’m just running around in WvW, I’ll see no one for miles, and then suddenly I’m attacked by 100 people just running by. It happens, and I’m not complaining, sometimes I try and make a game of it ‘Dodge the zerg!’, however what I actually want from WvW is more reasons for people to run away from the Zerg. Instead of zerging, they can do things Solo, or in a small group. Why is it all zerg based? I understand, no one wants to die, so we group up and go attack something. But it seems ArenaNet has made WvW more of a zerg based PvP choice, then you have SPvP which I guess is more small group based and roaming on there is fine… but I find that I don’t care for it on my thief for one, and for two, when I play an MMORPG I love being able to quest, and kill enemy players as I see them. You can’t do that in GW2 as everyone is all buddy buddy with one another, which is fine, so I was hoping I could just get my roaming slay whoever I see feelings out in WvW… and found out I cannot. Because if you find someone in WvW, they’re normally with a zerg, and it’s hard to find people just roaming, at least in my server.

So is it possible for ArenaNet to add some motivation to players to actually break away from the Zerg, to go out solo/small groups and actually spread out in the world vs world map. Because at the moment, it’s two very large groups of players in 1/2 different places of the HUGE map, and then the rest of that huge map is empty. Nothing is going on in it, no one is doing anything in it.

What’re your thoughts on this?

Buf,

Truth is, 99.9% of the population doesnt want to roam/ actually fight any other players….without rellying on 20+ people around them to help them “not die”.

The population of people who want to do what you want to do….is nill to none. They have left the game, and the ones that “remain” have no problem ONLY FIGHTING zergs. Those are cold hard facts man.

I feel for you, but I think it depends on your server tbh, on mine I roam in the daytime (usually solo, but sometimes in a small group of 2 – 3) taking camps, sentrys etc. on BL maps. I usually come across enemy roamers pretty frequently and have good 1 v 1 or 1 v x , and I run with a guild group of usually around 15 – 25 in the evening. But that’s why I wouldn’t leave RoF it is a great server with a dedicated WvW base and guilds (if a little on the small side) I wouldn’t swap this for a higher tier blob fest any day of the week.

You don’t say what server you are on so maybe look at transferring if you are on a high tier server you find a server to call home that better suits your play style.

Anet has repeatedly expressed that WvW is geared towards zerging. That isn’t to say that small groups and solo roamers don’t have a place. However, just about every WvW mechanic encourages zerging: equal WXP/Karma no matter how many attackers, AOE limits, fast traveling, etc.

Anet did implement the Bloodlust, which encouraged small roaming groups. However, as we all know this has been nerfed quite a bit so the incentive to roam has once again taken a back seat it seems. The stat buff was a little bit out of line, but the stomp points created a huge incentive for servers to control all of the Bloodlusts. Now, after the first Bloodlust is controlled, there is little incentive to control the other two. Two steps forward, one step back.

I just ran an experiment on this and posted the results. The long-short of it is:

A group of 5-10 player running havoc can make approximately 30 PPT with the relics while roaming on a good day. This does not include camps/sentries/dolyaks, etc

Take from that what you will.

TL:DR

Did the colonies complain that the British were zerging when they fought the revolutionary war? Minute men rocked the kitten out of the Brits with guerrilla warfare.
The crippling tactics of the small group was a huge factor in the war.

WvW is working as intended.

/thread

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the colonies complain that the British were zerging when they fought the revolutionary war? The Brits were defeated by political turmoil at home

The crippling tactics of the small group was a huge factor in the war.

WvW is working as intended.

/thread

Fixed.
Also – my calculations (on the 30 PPT post) were based on relics providing 3 points per spike with 3 relics. This may not be the case.

I enjoy zerging more than roaming. The game needs to cater to both

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the colonies complain that the British were zerging when they fought the revolutionary war? The Brits were defeated by political turmoil at home

The crippling tactics of the small group was a huge factor in the war.

WvW is working as intended.

/thread

Fixed.
Also – my calculations (on the 30 PPT post) were based on relics providing 3 points per spike with 3 relics. This may not be the case.

What type of time frame are your calculations pertaining to? Assuming you get 3 points per stomp, 30 points would only be 10 stomps which is not very much in a roaming atmosphere. Also what time zone and what server? For me roaming in say EU vs NA would have very different results.

there is a place for roamers. it’s called ruins? personally some of us prefer to zerg. if it was me trying to roam, i’ll just do spvp. maybe a smaller server or one less populated? wasn’t it free to transfer to them now?

I currently play on Tarnished Coast and don’t really want to leave it as I recently transferred there in fact. And if WvW is mainly for zerging then alright, I just feel a little let down that I couldn’t get that ‘kill em when I see em’ feel from Anets game. As I love to kill enemy players while leveling or just running around doing something.

Zikory.6871:

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the colonies complain that the British were zerging when they fought the revolutionary war? The Brits were defeated by political turmoil at home

The crippling tactics of the small group was a huge factor in the war.

WvW is working as intended.

/thread

Fixed.
Also – my calculations (on the 30 PPT post) were based on relics providing 3 points per spike with 3 relics. This may not be the case.

What type of time frame are your calculations pertaining to? Assuming you get 3 points per stomp, 30 points would only be 10 stomps which is not very much in a roaming atmosphere. Also what time zone and what server? For me roaming in say EU vs NA would have very different results.

erm he said equates to 30 ppt so call me foolish but I am gonna go out on a limb and assume the time frame in question here is every 15 minutes?

dragon.8071:

there is a place for roamers. it’s called ruins? personally some of us prefer to zerg. if it was me trying to roam, i’ll just do spvp. maybe a smaller server or one less populated? wasn’t it free to transfer to them now?

If you wanted to roam would you join an spvp game with a tiny map where the objective is to stand on a node? If you wanted to play your character that you leveled, would you join an spvp game that has none of your gear and plays your class different?

Please stop telling us to go to spvp, it shows a profound lack of understanding in roaming and spvp.

personally some of us prefer to roam

The game has plenty of room for roamers and zergers, the issue is the game is set up to favor one and cripple the other. I do not need the favors, but I would love to not be crippled.

I prefer the large scale Zerg warfare that requires teamwork and tactics over solo play. That’s what WvW is about.

Boulderbolg.3460:

Anet has repeatedly expressed that WvW is geared towards zerging. That isn’t to say that small groups and solo roamers don’t have a place. However, just about every WvW mechanic encourages zerging: equal WXP/Karma no matter how many attackers, AOE limits, fast traveling, etc.

Anet did implement the Bloodlust, which encouraged small roaming groups. However, as we all know this has been nerfed quite a bit so the incentive to roam has once again taken a back seat it seems. The stat buff was a little bit out of line, but the stomp points created a huge incentive for servers to control all of the Bloodlusts. Now, after the first Bloodlust is controlled, there is little incentive to control the other two. Two steps forward, one step back.

That’s not true at all. This time last year we had the World vs World devs promising us more incentive for small play and adding more to the game for it. They never delivered and changed their stance since by that time the people looking for open world guerrilla play had started leaving for greener pastures.

There are far more bad players than good players so it makes sense from a business perspective to cater to zerglings.

(nice necro, btw)

Oozo.7856:

There are far more bad players than good players so it makes sense from a business perspective to cater to zerglings.

(nice necro, btw)

Sadly, this is the case. The same way ANet is making everything ascended a craftable item, they will cater to zergs since the majority of players want that easy mode gameplay.

Not all zerglings are bad players, that is a narrow minded view. Many people Zerg because it’s a more casual play-style after Raiding with their Guild, as even running with a Guild you often go up against huge Pug Blobs.
Even while you are roaming you come across people reluctant to fight solo, those with cheese builds or those who run with their groups ganking smaller parties or solo roamers. Does this mean these are Casual Roamers?

With larger numbers comes the same Class compositions and thus you may see less diversity than smaller groups, and more chance of Skill lag.

lots of roaming on lower tiers.

players there are used to outnumbered fights so they don’t run away just because they don’t have 20 buddies with them.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Not all zerglings are bad players, that is a narrow minded view. Many people Zerg because it’s a more casual play-style after Raiding with their Guild.
Even while you are roaming you come across people reluctant to fight solo, those with cheese builds or those who run with their groups ganking smaller parties or solo roamers.

With larger numbers comes the same Class compositions and thus you may see less diversity than smaller groups, along with Skill lag.

All zerglings are bad players. If they weren’t then they would not run with a zerg. Good players seek to challenge themselves. There is no challenge in zerging it up. None.

A lot of those small groups out there that “gank” solo players also fight zergs and guild groups two to three times their size. They aren’t out there to gank people running out to their zerg. They want challenging fights against guild groups at least their own size.

Assassin X.8573:

TL:DR

Did the colonies complain that the British were zerging when they fought the revolutionary war? Minute men rocked the kitten out of the Brits with guerrilla warfare.
The crippling tactics of the small group was a huge factor in the war.

WvW is working as intended.

/thread

Did the Minute men have an AoE cap?

Preferred playstyle here for me and my guildmates is small group. There is a place for us in the game, and we work with the zerg playstyle. using the zerg as coverage to grab keeps/towers on the other side of the map. The game allows both, even if you could argue that it fosters zerg gameplay.

We spend less than 1% of our playtime on weekends running with the zerg, although we are not averse to strategically helping when/where we can. If that means temporarily joining to push (take or defend) then that is the right thing to do.

What we normally do is end up taking a keep or a tower in the same amount of time it takes our zerg to do the same thing on the other side of the map. It’s a one-two punch.

We work the map to avoid the enemy zerg when we can. Yes, we get run over sometimes. If we can take down a couple of players then scoot out, great. If we take down one then have 5 to 6 jump on each of us at the same time, and can’t make it into safety or over a cliff, then /laugh. We are putting enough points on the board otherwise. At worst, we’ve been spotted and can distract/delay them long enough to get the word out for our own zerg to come defend, then we’ve helped.

Have had some very good small group fights. And times, because we are so mobile, that we are in the right place at the right time to defend. Often while the zerg is occupied elsewhere.

Does the game actually promote zerging? Is that something that players from previous games (DAoC/Warhammer Online/AC, etc) prefer? Usually older games could not field that many players in one place without lagging/causing DC’s/crashing. Death penalties were harsher and getting back could take a long time (especially if you missed the scheduled port back to the RvR zone.) GW2 provides a place for those players to actually find the large scale fights they wanted but could not always have.

We understand the draw of “epic” army clashes and open field fighting. Been there, enjoyed that. For many, that is what WvW is about.

Our 4-man guild group often takes advantage of that, to work the “empty other 1/2” of the map. And we will often swap maps to land on those where our zerg isn’t and we are playing with Outnumbered. Because we are mobile that way and can make a difference there as well. And yes, in the hours that we play (11:30 – 3/4 AM PST), there are times when that happens. More than some posters out here would want to acknowledge. No complaints here, no hidden agenda, I confess, we tend to like it that way.

Would we like to see more small groups out there? Yes. We’ve had some good times up against 4, 8, even 10 man groups late at night.

Would we like to see more game mechanics that motivate small groups? Yes, in balance and not at the expense of the larger playerbase’s preferred playstyle.

Are we successful playing because the zerg exists? In a large part, yes. The counter tactic would be for the enemy zerg to break off and send a small group after us. That would be players motivating other players to do more small group play within the current framework of the game. That’s a player choice. Just like zergs.

The problem is the game favour zergs. You can roam solo and small groups for sure. Here is the problem , the amount of people who roam is so small and most of us has been roaming since forever. The skill gap is huge for a new player to start roaming. If all you did was zerg and want to try roam solo , good luck, you’ll be eaten alive by every roamer out there.

Easiest solution to fix. Why do people zerg and not do smaller forces more?

Because there is NO in game grouping system for more than 5 people EXCEPT a zerg!

Let’s see, we can follow a big blue visual pin that helps people to rally and form easy OR we can make multiple groups that have to mark a driver with a bullseye and use a 3rd party voice program to coordinate between groups. People will always do what’s easier.

It’s time to get private/guild only squads that are flexible enough to create custom forces that work best for players…. actually it was time in the beta weekends before release. Still astounded this hasn’t been added yet.

I can’t stand the zerg.

When you win, how did you contribute to the win?

When you die, what did the zerg do wrong?

There are too many people on coms to actually talk about anything funny or interesting.

Small groups is where its at. It’s where friends play together. It’s where PvP happens.

IMO zerglings don’t actually like PvP.

I agree. I moved from Blackgate to Yaks Bend. From there I got bored and moved to kaineng. This was before Kaifeng was at the dead bottom of the NA rankings, but who cares. All we do is small group and solo. We don’t have enough people to form a Zerg, and I’m fine with it. Every so often we do form a Zerg, but that is just when all of our formers and havoc a come together to do something major (take/defend a keep). Many times we have a Zerg without a commander, then break apart into small roaming groups after the keep capture/defense. It doesn’t matter that we are dead last since. Everyone who is on our dedicated WvW crew is skilled. The reason we are dead last is that we have about 10-15 people in WvW. But hey, with 10-15 people we’ve held KBL from 35-50 man zeros because we know siege placement and where and when to choke because we have only fought outnumbered for the past 4 months. With free transfers to Kaineng (are they here yet?) you should come join us!

Ahmrill.7512:

Easiest solution to fix. Why do people zerg and not do smaller forces more?

Because there is NO in game grouping system for more than 5 people EXCEPT a zerg!

Let’s see, we can follow a big blue visual pin that helps people to rally and form easy OR we can make multiple groups that have to mark a driver with a bullseye and use a 3rd party voice program to coordinate between groups. People will always do what’s easier.

It’s time to get private/guild only squads that are flexible enough to create custom forces that work best for players…. actually it was time in the beta weekends before release. Still astounded this hasn’t been added yet.

^THIS^

The grouping system AND the Commander Icons need to be fixed, BADLY! There needs to be an option to show where all of your guildies are on the same map as you, like how you can see your party members as little blue dots, and/or there needs to be an increase in party size, to at least 10 members, if not 15, even if this is for WvW only, AND there needs to be several changes to the Command Icon’s functionality; relevant to this discussion, there needs to be an option to turn on the Icon, form your Squad, then make the Icon ONLY visible to Squad members until you decide to make it publicly visible again! Also, different colored Icons would help a lot.

as long as the game mechanics favor larger numbers, nothing will change.

Otokomae.9356:

Ahmrill.7512:

Easiest solution to fix. Why do people zerg and not do smaller forces more?

Because there is NO in game grouping system for more than 5 people EXCEPT a zerg!

Let’s see, we can follow a big blue visual pin that helps people to rally and form easy OR we can make multiple groups that have to mark a driver with a bullseye and use a 3rd party voice program to coordinate between groups. People will always do what’s easier.

It’s time to get private/guild only squads that are flexible enough to create custom forces that work best for players…. actually it was time in the beta weekends before release. Still astounded this hasn’t been added yet.

^THIS^

The grouping system AND the Commander Icons need to be fixed, BADLY! There needs to be an option to show where all of your guildies are on the same map as you, like how you can see your party members as little blue dots, and/or there needs to be an increase in party size, to at least 10 members, if not 15, even if this is for WvW only, AND there needs to be several changes to the Command Icon’s functionality; relevant to this discussion, there needs to be an option to turn on the Icon, form your Squad, then make the Icon ONLY visible to Squad members until you decide to make it publicly visible again! Also, different colored Icons would help a lot.

You, me and most players feel this way. One of the changes that would impact social grouping and create a more dynamic WvW by spreading players over the battlefield has been completely ignored.

A flexible C&S system is a change that effects all WvW and also PvE events. By allowing people to form in-game forces that are not a zerg or a 5 man you create a whole new dynamic. The frustration of players trying to create custom forces without the use of an in-game system is beyond unacceptable.

Single biggest thing needed by ArenaNet in WvW is a flexible grouping system. Should have been in at release and DEFINATLEY should have been addressed by now.