Guild Wars 2

Let’s stop & ponder.

For simplicity…let’s pick NA.

Currenlty…NA WvW is like boxing between known fighters.

There are 24 boxers & 8 boxing rings.

Three boxers fight each other in these eight boxing rings. Fighters can only fight other boxers in their earned Weight Class.

How do you visualize the fights will turn out weekly, monthly, yearly in each of the eight boxing rings?

Yes, fighters will move up or down in their earned Weight Class…that’s for sure.

When match-ups settle into a somewhat predictable pattern…on who the 800 pound gorilla tends to be…

How do we shake things up?

The ideas that’s been presented here then make sense…given the above…imho.

Ok…What if you change the rules for NA WvW instead?

What if you…

1) Let all 24 boxers decide for themselves who they want to box with?
2) Increase the Reward when weak attack the strong
3) Decrease the Reward when strong attack the weak
4) Let 23 boxers to gang up against a single boxer if they so choose to in the extreme
5) Allow boxer(s) that don’t join the 23 boxer gang attack against a single boxer…to steal their competitor’s WvW Rank Title
6) Tell each boxer in random order the Top 1-3 enemy that is attacking them

How do you visualize the fights will turn out weekly, monthly, yearly in this King of the Hill fight match-up?

Please consider changing the Base Map Mechanic of WvW instead of implementing complex solutions…imho.

Your truly,
Diku

Possible Full Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

Oh god this is going to alienate a lot of people, and make them feel like what they contribute isn’t worth while, driving more people away from WvW. Please do not make one time zone of scoring worth more than any other time. And this is coming from a NA prime time player. Last thing we need is people leaving WvW again.

greyseer.1806:

Oh god this is going to alienate a lot of people, and make them feel like what they contribute isn’t worth while, driving more people away from WvW. Please do not make one time zone of scoring worth more than any other time. And this is coming from a NA prime time player. Last thing we need is people leaving WvW again.

+1 Let’s not give people excuse to stack NA servers and desert bottom tier combinations to have higher chance to win..

This could have possibly worked had the server population balancing actually worked but in the EU it hasn’t. We in RoF/WSR still DO NOT have enough numbers to counter GH/FoW and we are getting stomped all the time. We can’t even get a tier 3 tower on our BL and you want to reward GH/FoW EVEN MORE for having everything on their BL T3. It’s a joke. As I have said elsewhere on here – we in Bronze before the change didn’t ask for or want any of this. We had 3 years to decide where we wanted to be. We wanted to be in Bronze. We were happy.

And you still haven’t changed the cost of server transfers. Servers now only count for WvW so why does it cost more to transfer to the lowest ranked EU servers than it does to some of the highest?

naphack.9346:

Korgov.7645:

• Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
• Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement

I assume that “based on placement” refers refers to server’s Glicko ratings.

I’m glad to hear there is only 1 winner of each Skirmish. Every server will fight for the win instead of double teaming on the weakest server to secure the easiest PPT. I would expect the 2 top servers to go after each other instead.

OTOH the increase in PPK will probably steer the top servers to pick on the smallest team for safe points.

Or will there be Victory Points for servers not winning the Skirmish? Then we’d be in no better place than today.

It’s based on your standing in skirmish points.
For example, first place gets 3 points, second place gets 1 point, third place gets none.
Or 6-3-1, 5-2-0, 4-2-1 or how ever else they ultimately decide to split it.

That sounds bad. Then the second server will focus on the weakest the moment they realize they won’t win a Skirmish. This kind of scoring system ruins the 3-way battle.

Korgov.7645:

naphack.9346:

Korgov.7645:

• Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
• Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement

I assume that “based on placement” refers refers to server’s Glicko ratings.

I’m glad to hear there is only 1 winner of each Skirmish. Every server will fight for the win instead of double teaming on the weakest server to secure the easiest PPT. I would expect the 2 top servers to go after each other instead.

OTOH the increase in PPK will probably steer the top servers to pick on the smallest team for safe points.

Or will there be Victory Points for servers not winning the Skirmish? Then we’d be in no better place than today.

It’s based on your standing in skirmish points.
For example, first place gets 3 points, second place gets 1 point, third place gets none.
Or 6-3-1, 5-2-0, 4-2-1 or how ever else they ultimately decide to split it.

That sounds bad. Then the second server will focus on the weakest the moment they realize they won’t win a Skirmish. This kind of scoring system ruins the 3-way battle.

Well, if the second place doesn’t receive any points, what incentive is there for the weakest to stay in at all? It’s not like they will be able to knock out both servers, who have more points than them.

naphack.9346:

Korgov.7645:

naphack.9346:

Korgov.7645:

• Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
• Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement

I assume that “based on placement” refers refers to server’s Glicko ratings.

I’m glad to hear there is only 1 winner of each Skirmish. Every server will fight for the win instead of double teaming on the weakest server to secure the easiest PPT. I would expect the 2 top servers to go after each other instead.

OTOH the increase in PPK will probably steer the top servers to pick on the smallest team for safe points.

Or will there be Victory Points for servers not winning the Skirmish? Then we’d be in no better place than today.

It’s based on your standing in skirmish points.
For example, first place gets 3 points, second place gets 1 point, third place gets none.
Or 6-3-1, 5-2-0, 4-2-1 or how ever else they ultimately decide to split it.

That sounds bad. Then the second server will focus on the weakest the moment they realize they won’t win a Skirmish. This kind of scoring system ruins the 3-way battle.

Well, if the second place doesn’t receive any points, what incentive is there for the weakest to stay in at all? It’s not like they will be able to knock out both servers, who have more points than them.

Red and blue will double team on the green server. Red server just needs to steal some warscore from the blue server in the process – which is possible since green and blue focus on each other. This will auto-balance matchups.

this is really interesting. i am very hopeful that these proposed changes will make a huge positive impact on wvw.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

PotM should be intantaneous, not cumulative. So the buff would be based on current territory controlled, not cumulative score. This would work fine with the new scoring system.

Cake.4920:

Ansau.7326:

Then we have the coefficient of people playing. As at off-times there are less people playing their, their efforts are counted less.

Quite the opposite. Because less people are playing, your efforts matter much more, not just in war score, but in flipping/upgrading objectives. Even with these changes Oceanic players will be more valuable than NA players.

I was referring to the proposed new change of the value of skirmishes based on population, not what we have now.

Nightcapping and off time map flips are already fixed in two ways: Leveling the value of the win with the introduction of skirmishes and the tweak based on population playing.
A third way to nerf it more, regardless the way, is too much.

Then there’s the fact that now the clock is set to 5 min, another way to harm the pvd flipping.

Anet has already done some brutal nerfs in builds by touching a mechanic in more ways than necessary, and it has ended with that build becoming rubbish.
Let’s not make the same mistake with such an important thing like the worthiness of people not playing at primetime.

Dawdler.8521:

SkyShroud.2865:

Dawdler.8521:

vana.5467:

Personally, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m not specifically against any of the proposed changes, but they don’t address the core of the issue. “Night capping” is a direct result of uneven coverage – why not attempt to fix that instead of the secondary problems it creates?

Because you cant fix that. Its literally impossible. Balancing out its effects by changing the scoring mechanics is the only way.

The current imbalance issue is literally due to population difference caused by stacking. Some servers have way too many people due to stacking over 3 years. Some servers are empty, due to destacking over 3 years.

The answer has always been simple. Control the intake by determining the differences between servers which then efficiently prevent stacking, if the lowest server is too low, you close off all other servers that exceed that population disparity. Of course, you will see some stackers QQing over “Full” status but that is the price they have to pay for stacking.

That is what Anet did you know. It doesnt work, because players always find a way around it in order to play in their overstacked cliques. Your ideas only work if you assume players are a herd of brainless sheeps. It also assume a steady flow from high to low tiers, which just aint gonna happen.

Nope, they didn’t do that. What anet did is setting a “fixed max cap” while keeping a up-to-date current population. If the current population is below the “fixed max cap”, it is open. It is a simple programming, as simple as “if (curPop <= maxCap)”

What I am suggesting is not a “fixed max cap” but a “dynamic max cap”. This dynamic capping is built on disparity between selected server and the lowest server’s current population. Disparity calculation as simple as “popProportion = (lowServer / selServer) * 100” then using that to decide the cap of the selected server like “if (popProportion < 80%)”. To describe it, it simply means if the lowest server pop is less than 80% of the selected server pop, you close off the selected server. That is literally what it means by controlling the intake. Trying to game a dynamic pop is really hard, simply because you can’t empty the lowest server but gaming a “fixed” cap is easy because there is only one restriction.

However, for this to work, they need to fix the number of servers, anet should just merge it completely already.

This right here is what ANET has needed; A developer who’s familiar with WvWvW and can articulate changes which make sense for the overall development of this game mode.

Truly appreciate the work ANET has done / is doing on this. Well done.

Unless you want to create more server centers to give those you accuse of nightcapping somewhere to play where their score will “matter” with this new system you propose, then you can’t punish timezones by making their score not matter or matter less. They have as much right to play to help their server succeed as every other time zone. And without a true population balance system in place, all you do is hurt further servers that have lower prime time activity than other servers, because even with this current linking beta, those servers do still exist.

tl; dr version: Curious how people feel about the idea of strategic decay of PPT for structures.

In this case the less threatened something is the less value it has. The idea again is to create hot spots of activity which may grow into larger conflicts. This might be overkill.

This would work in conjunction with upgraded structures being worth more per tick but would act as a reducing factor if that building was unchallenged or safe. Aka is something standing empty worth as much as something in a conflicted state. This could also work in conjunction with scoring periods.

In this example let’s us the ABL to demonstrate. Going to short hand towers and camps with their map designation such as SET – SouthEast Tower.

Camps feed towers which support keeps. So if you picture the flow of supplies being used to relate structures into a chain or cluster of objectives to understand when something is challenged or safe.

So South/South camp (SSC) supports both SET and SWT. SWT supports Bay and SET supports Hills. SEC supports SET and Hills as SWC support SWT and Bay.

So the Hills cluster would be: Hills, SET, NEC, SEC and SSC as an example.

If all related structures in a cluster are controlled by one side and are unchallenged then that cluster would be considered safe. If any are not controlled by one side or attacked during a tick then they are considered challenged.

In a challenged state the objectives would tick at normal PPT and award attackers and defenders increased PPK around them, defenders granted slightly increased PPK over attackers. Both would receive increased personal reward. The reason defenders are paid slightly more PPK is that if the attackers are successful they should be granted increased capture points (as well as increased personal reward) if taking a defended structure. So defenders are paid more overtime they can defend and kill but attackers are paid after they take as well as paid as they kill.

The capture points should be based on the tier of the objective. A T0 structure should be worth nothing to flip back since it hasn’t gained any value you yet, but be ramped up the higher the tier of the objective.

Since we are looking to still encourage conflict, breaking a cluster should be worth an additional capture value to attackers regardless of defended or not and more personal reward. But all undefended objectives should pay less in personal rewards since they were empty structures. So in this example the first undefended objective in a cluster would pay an attacker more but the second/third undefended one would not.

In a safe state those objectives in a cluster would still create PPT but in a reduced amount since they are unchallenged and not currently in the line of fire. Defenders should be elsewhere and moving the fight to a new location.

Personal rewards should increase based on the tier of the structure and its total value. The reason for this is that you don’t want people trading a T0 tower for a T3 tower. Nor a T2 tower for a T1 Garri. And if you are going to attack, go for the biggest target to get the most out of it.

All personal rewards should stack with the Outnumbered buff.

So, the big question is why is this worth the headache:

• This reduces the PPT impact if one side is dominating a map over a period of time unchallenged.
• It encourages people to still defend since if they do they will gain more PPK and personal reward, and even though reduced, a controlled structure still generates PPT for a side which is increased based on its tier versus none if its captured.
• It gives attackers a reason to do breakout events even if they don’t own anything since they will earn additional score for disrupting a cluster and more if its defended, as well as increased PPK for fighting around the objectives.
• Attackers are further encouraged to take higher level objectives to reduce that impact on PPT against them and increase their own personal reward and capture points.
• It slightly discourages the K-Train since if they cap everything they will only get the cluster breakup points on the first objective in a cluster and if they cap everything they will not be gaining as much PPT until those objectives are upgraded. Note no one was paid to control a cluster because the PPT of those individual objectives are payment by themselves.
• There is still a reason to defend when needed but doesn’t pay the server as much if not challenged.

Cons to this:

• Complicated
• Does it add server latency
• Does it add confusion on when personal rewards are increased or decreased
• Is the reward incentive enough to encourage breakouts, people fighting against the odds
• May reduce the value in the “knock on the gates” tactic since it would increase a PPT value of a cluster during that tick until it flips back to safe

Issues in it being gamed:

• How do you handle people with 2 accounts leaving one in a structure they know will be attacked, does there need to be minimum coverage before its considered defended while still paying increased PPK.

As I said might be overkill and too complicated, but thoughts? Sorry for the ramble but wanted to see if this added any value to people.

Some ideas…

Problem 1: Off peak hours imbalance WvW outcomes should not be determined by WvW player population. Scoring should be balanced based on players actively pursuing goals for victory. It should be reliant on players at any any given time regardless of peak/off hours.

Solution: Scale the points according to players on that map.Say there is 50 players on Team A but only 10 players on Team B. Kills for the Team with 10 players would be worth 5 points but the Team with 50 players would only get 1 point per kill. This scaling point system can be implemented further if needed for objectives and balance.

Pros: This would even out off hour battles, give teams with less players a fighting chance, encourage players to have the strategic option to spread out in maps, and provide 24/7 balance.

Cons: Some players might afk their alt accounts into opposing server to hinder scoring system handicap.

Resolution: Impose 1 minute afk timer kick from wvw maps similar to pvp with repetitive abusers getting a debuff.

Problem 2: Seasonal Scoring System previous years had implemented a server scoring of 5 points for winning server, 3 points for 2nd place, and 1 point for 3rd place. While it seemed to be ok in rewarding the correct servers, it did not really encourage a fight for 2nd or 3rd place in a matchup as dropping down a tier seemed more beneficial for more points and screwed the 2nd place team more.

Solution: Use a 5 point for 1st, 4 points for 2nd, and 2 points for 3rd system Example of 4 Weeks cycle with teams placing the same every week.
Week 1 old system Week 1 new system
Team A-5 points Team A-5 points
Team B-3 points Team B-4 points
Team C-1 points Team C-2 point

Week 2 old system Week 2 new system
Team A-10 points Team A-10 points
Team B-6 points Team-B-8 points
Team C-6 points Team-C-7 points

Week 3 old system Week 3 new system
Team A-15 points Team A-15 points
Team B-9 points Team B-12 Points
Team C-7 points Team C-9 Points

Week 4 old system Week 4 new system
Team A-20 Points Team A-20 point
Team B-12 points Team B-16 points
Team C-12 points Team C-14 points

Resolution: The battle for each placement matters moreso with 5-4-2, as the 3rd place team can’t just rely on dropping a tier to catch up in placement and the 1st place teams have more pressure on sustaining their lead from consistent 2nd place finishers.

Problem 3: More people wanna participate and contribute but can’t compete with the bigger servers

Its a long season and even the most seasoned Wvwers get burnt out. Keep up the fun and participation for all servers by adding limited key events. While the main forces are WvWers, sometimes it can be hard for players to participate with ques or players to want to help and just need an alternative way to contribute to the war. For servers severely behind a Call to Arms type event can be activated.

Solution: Provide alternative contribution/scoring methods Add a server resource or war bundle meter for Last Stand. Players from all servers not just inside WvW can now help their server win by providing war supplies that help WvWers with objectives. Say a player on a server mines 10 iron nodes in Kessex Hills, this act of mining produces a proc of lets say “thorium ore”. this ore can be used to turn into a WVW resource collector outside WvW like in Lions Arch and it will help that server with a resource bundle or maybe something cooler like a multiple airship bombardment or summon a war hero to even the odds.

Further Resolutions: This can be maybe a server message like scarletds invasion that a servers WvW needs help, so people see it and are more aware rush out and help their Wvwers by mining up some ore at key times. This new system should not be pay to win, where players can just buy stuff with gold to donate to the war. System can be expanded to other objectives, like killing certain mobs in open world or hunting down hidden key material or npcs anywhere in the wold to initiate a last minute devastating offensive or defensive maneuver, rock paper scissors?

Problem 4: Can we PLEASE stop using the word night capping? lol It is a 24/7 game and night is irrelevant.

BOA smid.1783:

Unless you want to create more server centers to give those you accuse of nightcapping somewhere to play where their score will “matter” with this new system you propose, then you can’t punish timezones by making their score not matter or matter less. They have as much right to play to help their server succeed as every other time zone. And without a true population balance system in place, all you do is hurt further servers that have lower prime time activity than other servers, because even with this current linking beta, those servers do still exist.

I don’t see how the proposed change (not the potential change) punishes or makes their score not matter. Just pulling numbers out of thin air here. If server 1 has 40 people and server 2 & 3 have 5 each, server 1 is going to steam roll every BL and tick 600+ A different time of the day each server is running 80 and all tick about the same. That smaller group of people has a bigger impact on the overall scoring than they should. The larger group is still going to outscore the other servers, but not so far as to keep the others from having a chance to compete.

I think that by increasing the number of points associated with a kill may actually promote blobbing more so because now people will be less willing to fight outmanned – thus the smaller group will end up running or finding someone to blob with. Blobbing has already started to take over the game play enough. If you are going to assign points on a kill basis it should take into perspective the number of players fighting each other and awarding it that way (ie. 30 players vs 10 so the 30 players should get 1 point per kill versus the 10 players would get 3 and when they were more even then the points would be 3 each. Plus if done right you would actually be able to see how many there are on the other team (ofc this would make some people sad since they could no longer say they are fighting with just “7 people in squad” when there are 30 people fighting with them.)

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I don’t see how the proposed change (not the potential change) punishes or makes their score not matter. Just pulling numbers out of thin air here. If server 1 has 40 people and server 2 & 3 have 5 each, server 1 is going to steam roll every BL and tick 600+ A different time of the day each server is running 80 and all tick about the same. That smaller group of people has a bigger impact on the overall scoring than they should. The larger group is still going to outscore the other servers, but not so far as to keep the others from having a chance to compete.

Off hours, in my opinion, has just as much right to effect the score equally as “prime hours.” Especially since all the servers are not balanced in what Anet is dictating as “prime hours.” They put in just as much time and effort as the rest of us to work towards their server’s success and that shouldn’t be discredited in any way shape or form. Someone earlier in the thread told servers with low NA population (which includes mine) to “buy more NA coverage.” With these proposed changes not only are you telling what coverage my server does have that they matter less, but you are hurting what little NA coverage we do have more by weighting that timezone more. And I’m sorry….but neither of those situations sound like situations that is encouraging my server to push for a win more/show up to fight/etc.

And I won’t even touch on how much I hate the idea of “buying” coverage and how much that practice has screwed the game already.

fishball.7204:

What starts off as a great night of WvW devolves into karma trains because they wipe a few times and go back to PvE or whatever especially now that they don’t lose as much PPT by not defending.

Then they should lose, no? And they will lose much PPT btw because the activity level is static per skirmish. No details are given on what method exactly will be used to determine activity level, only that it will be done in such a way so that it is not gamable by population logging off right before the start of a skirmish period.

I’m curious to see how the skirmish system alone would work without favoring a static primetime with Activity levels. Activity level is a concept that bothers me for the simple reason that it seems kind of complex and definitely won’t be understood by the average player.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

BOA smid.1783:

Unless you want to create more server centers to give those you accuse of nightcapping somewhere to play where their score will “matter” with this new system you propose, then you can’t punish timezones by making their score not matter or matter less. They have as much right to play to help their server succeed as every other time zone. And without a true population balance system in place, all you do is hurt further servers that have lower prime time activity than other servers, because even with this current linking beta, those servers do still exist.

I don’t see how the proposed change (not the potential change) punishes or makes their score not matter. Just pulling numbers out of thin air here. If server 1 has 40 people and server 2 & 3 have 5 each, server 1 is going to steam roll every BL and tick 600+ A different time of the day each server is running 80 and all tick about the same. That smaller group of people has a bigger impact on the overall scoring than they should. The larger group is still going to outscore the other servers, but not so far as to keep the others from having a chance to compete.

Example where higher off hours and low prime time NA will lead to worse score -
Server A has 1 map queued during NA vs BC that queue 2+ maps, so they tick higher with higher multiplier
Server A has 1-2 map queued during non prim time vs BC that has queue on 1 map so server A will tick higher but it will have base multiplier
Server A’s off hours population is doing same amount of work against same amount of opposition but won’t have same affect on score

Anet assumes primetime is equal across all servers, while this may be true for EU, NA is stacked on some servers so these servers will continue to stack. The servers that can’t compete in primetime will lose players to other servers and stacking continues. Balancing scoring without population is kittened.

If you are going to fix something why not do a clean job and get rid of passive PPT from owning structures…

Best solution is get rid of passive PPT from passively owning structures and instead focus on giving ppt from active items that challenege players –
doliak/sentries
capping structures (dependent on ratio of defender/attackers) undefended = 0
defending structures (dependent on ratio of defender/attackers) outmanned defense = lots of points
most importantly non siege PPK should give lots of points so that it is worth small team trying to defend against map blob.

This will solve problem of ‘off hours’ capping undefended structures regardless if it happens in prime-time or during ‘night time’.

How about getting the current beta changes out of beta first? Linking is done, re-link based on pop changes around the patch, or no link. If linking stays – what are the rules for how often they are re-linked?

BOA smid.1783:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I don’t see how the proposed change (not the potential change) punishes or makes their score not matter. Just pulling numbers out of thin air here. If server 1 has 40 people and server 2 & 3 have 5 each, server 1 is going to steam roll every BL and tick 600+ A different time of the day each server is running 80 and all tick about the same. That smaller group of people has a bigger impact on the overall scoring than they should. The larger group is still going to outscore the other servers, but not so far as to keep the others from having a chance to compete.

Off hours, in my opinion, has just as much right to effect the score equally as “prime hours.” Especially since all the servers are not balanced in what Anet is dictating as “prime hours.” They put in just as much time and effort as the rest of us to work towards their server’s success and that shouldn’t be discredited in any way shape or form. Someone earlier in the thread told servers with low NA population (which includes mine) to “buy more NA coverage.” With these proposed changes not only are you telling what coverage my server does have that they matter less, but you are hurting what little NA coverage we do have more by weighting that timezone more. And I’m sorry….but neither of those situations sound like situations that is encouraging my server to push for a win more/show up to fight/etc.

And I won’t even touch on how much I hate the idea of “buying” coverage and how much that practice has screwed the game already.

I disagree with your premise that their contribution is discredited.

I’m not talking NA or prime time. When a server vastly outnumbers another for a slice of time, those people playing have a disproportionate effect on the score than their server mates. 40 v 5 v 5 people ticking 600 is rewarding more points over time per person than the 80 v 80 v 80 ticking 200.

As an oceanic player i will not be playing in a biased scoring system.

For myself and a few of my friends this post of proposed changes amounts to “Welcome to the death of wvw”.

I hope you guys enjoy playing by yourselves – time to move on.

Scoring only affects one out of the three issues with non-prime coverage.

The other two are T3 structures and more supply then you can use.

I am a bit worried that the scoring change will still reward non-peak stacking and siege humping.

I think Luvpie hit on something there.
Switching to an action oriented scoring system would be a positive change. Where active defense is rewarded more than passive defense.
Same with active offense. I think taking a defended objective should be weighted the highest, next a successful defense, then the lowest where taking an undefended objective should be weighted the same as a losing defense.

It’s complex, but it will end the system where people stay up, stay home, in order to exploit weak time zones.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I disagree with your premise that their contribution is discredited.

I’m not talking NA or prime time. When a server vastly outnumbers another for a slice of time, those people playing have a disproportionate effect on the score than their server mates. 40 v 5 v 5 people ticking 600 is rewarding more points over time per person than the 80 v 80 v 80 ticking 200.

But when is it ever 80v80v80? The populations aren’t balanced, even with this server linking. Maybe in T1/T2 it’s balanced like that, but I can tell you on my server….we run across the outnumbered buff more times than not in prime time too. That’s not an 80v80v80 situation.

In the end (after going back and looking at your original post), you and I are arguing about different thing anyway. So this argument is really a non-argument.

With the new scoring system is anet planning on re-linking the servers? Because the current link isn’t the best and some server have stronger prime time than other. So I think if the new scoring system is gonna take place then re-linking of the servers should also happen.
What do you guys think about it?

Did I understand this correctly?

Win the skirmish on prime time, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “night”, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “morning”, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “daytime”, get X points.

If I did how are people saying that it is unfair for their time zone?

Luvpie.8350:

Example where higher off hours and low prime time NA will lead to worse score -

What I get from reading you is that you want your NA to remain outmanned and not have a fighting chance. If the real issue is population balance, have you ever asked why your NA population is dwindling? Put aside scoring changes for a moment. Do you want your server’s NA population continue to dwindle by playing outmanned constantly against two other servers with larger NA? Isn’t it weird how servers with higher off hours and low NA always seem to have this problem? Also strange how off-hours players who are outmanned constantly will move too, huh? It’s as if there’s some lesson to be learned that us players are turning a blind eye to.

Monk Tank.5897:

This idea of Night Capping is Ludicrous.
It’s like telling Japan it’s not fair for attacking Pearl Harbor at 7:48 a.m. on a Sunday.
The Server runs 365 days a year 24/7.
Deal With It.

Well if Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor every night for 365 days a year and claimed victory at the end war solely due to the fact they have been bombing the same harbor that’s been empty for quite some time I am sure the US would have called unfair as well.

System seems good to me. Winning the skirmish gives same amount of points if the prime time players win it or if the off time players win it.

I don’t understand why people are complaining that this change makes their gameplay somehow less valuable.

I think they are discussing scoring now, but we are months out from it being implemented. But yes considering the world linking is in a beta stage, I am guessing there will be a shuffle at some point.

In the end it’s still coverage wars in a system that still hasn’t succeeded in balancing the population. shrug

I wish they would find a way to promote less blobbing, but it seems every change pushes us more and more into that mindset. PPK is great unless you give 5 players each credit for killing one player simply because they tagged that player. Promotes zerging down solo players and larger groups running over smaller groups, although I guess that’s honestly the mentality already.

viikatemies.5347:

System seems good to me. Winning the skirmish gives same amount of points if the prime time players win it or if the off time players win it.

I don’t understand why people are complaining that this change makes their gameplay somehow less valuable.

I think its more the action level multiplier. So different time zones are awarded the same points but the prime time one would be X*3 where as the off hours would be X*1 for a victory. To be fair it was stated that this is the secondary system if needed.

It’s probably impossible to do something like this without it being contentious, but I think this is a workable idea.

TheGrimm.5624:

viikatemies.5347:

System seems good to me. Winning the skirmish gives same amount of points if the prime time players win it or if the off time players win it.

I don’t understand why people are complaining that this change makes their gameplay somehow less valuable.

I think its more the action level multiplier. So different time zones are awarded the same points but the prime time one would be X*3 where as the off hours would be X*1 for a victory. To be fair it was stated that this is the secondary system if needed.

There would be a new system which counts activity from all 3 worlds on all 4 maps and determines activity level during 2h skirmish. So even if it is not prime time, it could be still action level 3. But i dont think it is good idea to enforce prime time hours, all of the skirmishes should depend only on activity.

During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

Umh, hell no please???

How about you just rework the feature into something, that will also work under the new WvW Systems please??.

That “most” people not really notice the buffes is plain simle incorrect.
The first thign that absolutely every WvW player instantly should notice on every fresh new match is, when you enter for WvW is directly that due to the fresh map and the resetted Power of the Mist bonus your Maximum Health is about like 10% decreased, thats a whopping difference od like 2-3K HP lesser that actually makes a huge difference, if you might survive a burst attack, or not, giving you that maybe few seconds needed to realize what happens to quickly make up for fitting counter reactions, before you are dead, unless you get steamroled by a big group against you wouldnt have had any chance anyways, but in small scale fights and duels, this difference in max health due to the Power of the mist buff has saved me prsonally already in countless situations my life, where without that health buff I would have died for literally “dead certain” !!!

Also the Endurance Regen Increase is something that affects us in WvW, as like also the Healing Efficiency, now especially in regard of Druids.
But you might be right about the other things, which merely affected only PvEers.
—-

However, I propose, change the Power of the Mist feature, and change it so, that it is interesting for ALL KINDS OF PLAYERS, regardless if you play PvE, WvW or PvP.

PotM should be something, that provides for your server boons, that are highly valuable for everyone, which should give players good reasons to support their servers in WvW, to the point, that people who would usually play PvE or PvP go to WvW and joining their Server to help every now and then to ensure, that their server reaches the PoTM effects, that would be also helpful for their own game modes, by fulfilling specific taskas in WvW that increase the blessings for your servers towards specific game modes, but in the end these taskas also all help your world to make points towards the warscore to win the Skirmisches in the ed to get Victory Points.

Victory Points at the end of each match should work then for all Game Modes for players that participated in WvW enough as individual Player Currency that is shared among the Server on all players that participated long enough for them in WvW within the match time to maintain their own preferred Blessings which players should be able to “buy” from Shrines that you should be able to find in the game (PvP Lobby, WvW Spawn Areas, randomy in PvE Maps hidden, counting also as POI’s

So basicaly, split up the Power of the Mists between all 3 Modes:

WvW Blessings in Victory Points you gain when a Match is over:

Costs == Effect
5 > Breath of the Mists = Increases for 7 Days the WvW Exp Income by 5%
10 > Battleborn Hero = Increases for 7 Days your income of Badges of Honor from Enemy Kills by +2
15 > Mistforged Hero = Gain for the next 7 Days the chance to randomly obtain as Loot from Lord Kills also randomly Hero and Mistforged Items and have in this time also access to an NPC, that trades these Items for Parts for a precursor Sets of the WVW related Legendary Mistforged Armor Set, which requires of you to complete also the latest added two WvW Armor Sets from the WvW Reward Pathss
25 > Mistforged Jewels = Gain for the next 7 Days acces to a new WvW unique NPC, which sends you out on the journey for the WvW unique first set of Legendary Accessoires, first requiring of you to learn new Recipes for crafting ascended Precursor Accessoires of either Rings, Earrings or Amulets for that you need to be Jeweler 500 to be able to craft them, added together with lots of new jeweler crafting recipes for the way from 400 to 500 that include new Stat Combinations that are missing for Accessoires which got added with HoT….
50 > Soothing Mist = Gain for the next 7 Days increased Maximum Health and Endurance Regeneration of +10% while being in WvW
100 >Testament of Heroism = Increases for the next 7 Days the income of Proofs from Rank Reward Chests by +3
150 > Legendary Battle Memoires = Increases for the next 7 Days your income of Memories of Battles by +20% whenever you receive some from Rank Reward chests
250 > Eternal Hero Increases for the next 7 Days the rewards by 50% that you receive when you successfully defend something in WvW, like a Keep, whenever the Defend Timer reaches its end (this includes WExp, Karma, Exp, Gold, Badges)
500 >Battle Aura = Have such a strong Battle Aura for the next 7 Days, that you can always see your enemies on the Mini Map everywhere
1000 > Fashion of the Mists = Gain access for 7 Days to unique WvW NPCs, that can sell you WvW unique permanent Finishing Moves, including those of the Gemstore also for high Gold Costs/Badges ect., WvW unique Skill Skins (for starters for example for all kinds of Minion Skills), WvW unique earnable Outfits (PvE got already an earnable Outfit, that one from Halloween that looks similar to the Witch Outfit, so why not other Game Modes too??)
1500 > Bloodlust = Increases for the next 7 Days your Stats by +50 (Blood Lust from Shrines gets removed, Shrines in WvW will receive a new different mapwide effect instead that will leadto players actually fighting for them, instead of 90% of all times ignoring them)
2500 > Ascendant of War = Increases for 7 Days the Chances to obtain Ascended Armor Parts from WvW Rank Rewards by 10%
5000 > Ascendant of Blood = Increases for 7 Days the Chances to obtain Ascended Weapons from WvW Rank Rewards by 10%
10000 > Lord of the Mists = For the next 7 Days is capping in WvW a Keep or a Castle always instantly a WvW Rank Up, the Money Reward from Rank Chests is trippled ffor them meanwhile and have the chance of 10%, that they might drop for you also Ascended Materials like Elonian Leather, Damask or Spiritwood

PvP Blessings from Victory Points

Costs == Effect
15 > Blessed by Wealth = Increases for 7 Days by 5% the gain in PvP Reward Track progressions
25 > Glorious Time = Increases for 7 Days by 5% the gain of Glory
50 > Blessed by Fortune = Gain the chance for 7 days, that Rewards from PvP Reward Tracks reward you additionally also with Money Bags worth random values ranging from 10 Silver to 1 Gold
100 >Blessed by Luck = Increases for 7 Days the chances to obtain from Reward Tracks more valuable loot by 15% and adds also the chances to obtain Materials like Lodestones, that usually wouldn’t be rewards.
150 > Legendary Glory Crystal Increases for 7 Days your Income of Shards of Glory by 20%
250 > Glorious Fighter = Gain for 7 Days no some Extra Glory for Player Kills in PvP/Stronghold Matches (even more if done with a Finishing Move!)
500 > Karmic Fighter = Gain the blessing for 7 days and a small portion of the Glory that you obtain, becomes also a Karma Reward for you.
750 > Golden Fighter = Gain the blessing for 7 days and a small portion of the Glory that you obtain, becomes also a Gold Reward for you that is affected also additionalyl by the Gold Find Account Bonus.
1000 > Fashion of Gladiators = Gain access for 7 days to PvP unique NPCs, that can sell you PvP unique Finishing Moves, PvP unique Skill Skins ect (see above WvW counterpart)
1500 > Famous Legend = Gain acces for 7 Days to a PvP unique NPC for the required items to obtain parts for a PvP unique Legendary Armor Skin Set that can be used only on Ascended Armor Sets to transform them into actually legendary armor parts with the full functionality of legendaries to swap stats out when using the equipment outside of PvP
2500 > Present of the Mists Increases Point Gain towards PvP Achievements for 7 Days by 100%, so when you usually would get +1 point towards an achievement, with this active you will get +2 points
5000 > Fury of Combat = Gain for 7 days the chance to obtain from PvP Reward Tracks new PvP unique Fury Weapon Skins
7500 > Glorious Stronghold Conqueror = Gain for 7 days increased glory from Stronghold Matches by +50% and gain also a chance to obtain while playing Stronghold access to new Heroes that you can unlock through fulfilling Heroic Trials in the PvP Lobby when you talk to the Mist Heroes to gain this way not only new Heroes, but also if you keep fulfilling Heroic Trials for them, you can unlock nw Hero Designs for those Heroes that you have already unlocked for your account.
10000 > King/Queen of Combat = Helps you out for 7 Days in PvP Tournament Tiers to lose not progression also in higher tiers than usual and makes comebacks a bit more rewarding in that time.

PvE Blessings for Victory Points

Costs == Effect
5 > Testament of Craftmanship = Increases for 7 Days the Chance for Critcal Craftings by 10%
15 > Fertile Season = Increases for 7 Days the Gathering Gain by 10%
25 > Hunting Season = Increases for 7 Days the Exp from killed Enemies by 20%
50 > Party Season = Increases for 7 Days the maximum Health and Endurance Regeneration for PvE by 10%, another 10% on top for when your World has won a WvW Match or when its Festival Time for the next time you use this Blessing.
75 > Mystic Force = Increases Healing Powers by 10% for 7 Days and when you gain in that time Mystic Coins, is the gained amount doubled.
100 > Ancient Wisdom = Increases Toughness for 7 Days by 10%
150 > Treasure Hunter = Opening daily Treasure Chests (JPs) in the next 7 days grants you increased chances for rare materials like Lodestones or T7 Crafting Materials
250 > Haggling Expertise = NPCs will sell you everything for 7 days for 25% Gold more and let you buy things for 25% reduced prices
500 >Traveler of Tyria = WPs will cost you 7 days 25% lesser Gold and grant you after usage for 1 Minute Super Speed
750 > Bounty Hunter = Increases for 7 Days the chances to obtain rarer loot from World Bosses and Champions by 5%. Certain killed World Bosses, like Tequatl or Tri Wurm will drop 100% guaranteed in that time Bounty Hunter Tokens, which can be turned in for specific Rewards, like for example the Sunbringer Weapons or Ascended Armor Chests of Choice.
1000 > Fashion of Adventurers = Gain access for 7 Days to PvE unique NPCs that can sell you PvE unique Finishing Moves, Outfits, Skill Skins ect.
1500 > Blessing of Zomorros = Increases chances for 7 days to obtain something more valuable from Zomorros, than what you have thrown into the Mystic Forge by 10%
2500 > Kiss of Rebirth = When you die, you automatically use an Orb of Revival (even if you have none) for the next 7 days and you won’t have the negative effect of health reduction, you will move slowly only, for some longer time. The only exception for this effect is, if you would get revived at a place, where you would instantly die again! Places like the Thaumanova Reactor’s Boss battle for example
5000 > Eye of Discoverery = Increases Rewards for 7 Days from Map Competions by 100% and Map Event Rewards are also doubled for you in this time from doing Events and come in faster than usual
7500 > Relic Hunter = Increases for 7 Days significantly the drop chances from Champions and World Bosses to obtain unique skinned Exotic Items (in general exotic items, including Accessoires, stuff like Pendant of Orr for example) as also precursor drops of the first generation of Legendary Weapons in that case of Dragon Minion World Bosses only
10000 > Legendary Craftmanship = Deactivates for 7 days all kinds of time gates for your account so that you can craft as many items as you have materials for it directly, without having to obsoletely wait a day for it to become able to craft again.
Crafting Exp Gain is also doubled in this time and all items you craft will give you Exp, even stuff, that usually would give you no Exp anymore.
Crafting can produce while you have this Blessing up also randomly with a small chance a byproduct, called Essences of Expertise, which when used gives a Character Crafting Ranks based on the Quality of the Essence towards the Crafting Jobs that are currently active, which are either +1,3,5 or +10 Ranks if it was a legendary Essence of Expertise (this will reduce the Crafting Grind if you want to have more characters with high crafting ranks somewhen so that you dont have to swap always to 1 specific character if you need a specific Crafting Job for a task…)

Just some examples of how you could split up the power of the mists Feature into a game wide Blessing feature, that offers for each game Mode invependant own unique Blessings for different amounts of Victory points, which all last for 7 days and need then to be renewed by the player for Victory points, if he wants to get the effect of that blessing again by going to a Shrine where the Victory Points gen be spent for receiving those Blessings

Equal Points for Equal Play.
You don’t get to shut WvW off when you go to bed.
What time is this actually so i can set my alarm clock?

Orpheal.8263:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

Umh, hell no please???

How about you just rework the feature into something, that will also work under the new WvW Systems please??.

That “most” people not really notice the buffes is plain simle incorrect.
The first thign that absolutely every WvW player instantly should notice on every fresh new match is, when you enter for WvW is directly that due to the fresh map and the resetted Power of the Mist bonus your Maximum Health is about like 10% decreased, thats a whopping difference od like 2-3K HP lesser that actually makes a huge difference, if you might survive a burst attack, or not, giving you that maybe few seconds needed to realize what happens to quickly make up for fitting counter reactions, before you are dead, unless you get steamroled by a big group against you wouldnt have had any chance anyways, but in small scale fights and duels, this difference in max health due to the Power of the mist buff has saved me prsonally already in countless situations my life, where without that health buff I would have died for literally “dead certain” !!!

Also the Endurance Regen Increase is something that affects us in WvW, as like also the Healing Efficiency, now especially in regard of Druids.
But you might be right about the other things, which merely affected only PvEers.
—-

However, I propose, change the Power of the Mist feature, and change it so, that it is interesting for ALL KINDS OF PLAYERS, regardless if you play PvE, WvW or PvP.

PotM should be something, that provides for your server boons, that are highly valuable for everyone, which should give players good reasons to support their servers in WvW, to the point, that people who would usually play PvE or PvP go to WvW and joining their Server to help every now and then to ensure, that their server reaches the PoTM effects, that would be also helpful for their own game modes, by fulfilling specific taskas in WvW that increase the blessings for your servers towards specific game modes, but in the end these taskas also all help your world to make points towards the warscore to win the Skirmisches in the ed to get Victory Points.

Victory Points at the end of each match should work then for all Game Modes for players that participated in WvW enough as individual Player Currency that is shared among the Server on all players that participated long enough for them in WvW within the match time to maintain their own preferred Blessings which players should be able to “buy” from Shrines that you should be able to find in the game (PvP Lobby, WvW Spawn Areas, randomy in PvE Maps hidden, counting also as POI’s

So basicaly, split up the Power of the Mists between all 3 Modes:

WvW Blessings in Victory Points you gain when a Match is over:

Costs == Effect
5 > Breath of the Mists = Increases for 7 Days the WvW Exp Income by 5%
10 > Battleborn Hero = Increases for 7 Days your income of Badges of Honor from Enemy Kills by +2
15 > Mistforged Hero = Gain for the next 7 Days the chance to randomly obtain as Loot from Lord Kills also randomly Hero and Mistforged Items and have in this time also access to an NPC, that trades these Items for Parts for a precursor Sets of the WVW related Legendary Mistforged Armor Set, which requires of you to complete also the latest added two WvW Armor Sets from the WvW Reward Pathss
25 > Mistforged Jewels = Gain for the next 7 Days acces to a new WvW unique NPC, which sends you out on the journey for the WvW unique first set of Legendary Accessoires, first requiring of you to learn new Recipes for crafting ascended Precursor Accessoires of either Rings, Earrings or Amulets for that you need to be Jeweler 500 to be able to craft them, added together with lots of new jeweler crafting recipes for the way from 400 to 500 that include new Stat Combinations that are missing for Accessoires which got added with HoT….
50 > Soothing Mist = Gain for the next 7 Days increased Maximum Health and Endurance Regeneration of +10% while being in WvW
100 >Testament of Heroism = Increases for the next 7 Days the income of Proofs from Rank Reward Chests by +3
150 > Legendary Battle Memoires = Increases for the next 7 Days your income of Memories of Battles by +20% whenever you receive some from Rank Reward chests
250 > Eternal Hero Increases for the next 7 Days the rewards by 50% that you receive when you successfully defend something in WvW, like a Keep, whenever the Defend Timer reaches its end (this includes WExp, Karma, Exp, Gold, Badges)
500 >Battle Aura = Have such a strong Battle Aura for the next 7 Days, that you can always see your enemies on the Mini Map everywhere
1000 > Fashion of the Mists = Gain access for 7 Days to unique WvW NPCs, that can sell you WvW unique permanent Finishing Moves, including those of the Gemstore also for high Gold Costs/Badges ect., WvW unique Skill Skins (for starters for example for all kinds of Minion Skills), WvW unique earnable Outfits (PvE got already an earnable Outfit, that one from Halloween that looks similar to the Witch Outfit, so why not other Game Modes too??)
1500 > Bloodlust = Increases for the next 7 Days your Stats by +50 (Blood Lust from Shrines gets removed, Shrines in WvW will receive a new different mapwide effect instead that will leadto players actually fighting for them, instead of 90% of all times ignoring them)
2500 > Ascendant of War = Increases for 7 Days the Chances to obtain Ascended Armor Parts from WvW Rank Rewards by 10%
5000 > Ascendant of Blood = Increases for 7 Days the Chances to obtain Ascended Weapons from WvW Rank Rewards by 10%
10000 > Lord of the Mists = For the next 7 Days is capping in WvW a Keep or a Castle always instantly a WvW Rank Up, the Money Reward from Rank Chests is trippled ffor them meanwhile and have the chance of 10%, that they might drop for you also Ascended Materials like Elonian Leather, Damask or Spiritwood

---

PvP Blessings from Victory Points

Costs == Effect
15 > Blessed by Wealth = Increases for 7 Days by 5% the gain in PvP Reward Track progressions
25 > Glorious Time = Increases for 7 Days by 5% the gain of Glory
50 > Blessed by Fortune = Gain the chance for 7 days, that Rewards from PvP Reward Tracks reward you additionally also with Money Bags worth random values ranging from 10 Silver to 1 Gold
100 >Blessed by Luck = Increases for 7 Days the chances to obtain from Reward Tracks more valuable loot by 15% and adds also the chances to obtain Materials like Lodestones, that usually wouldn’t be rewards.
150 > Legendary Glory Crystal Increases for 7 Days your Income of Shards of Glory by 20%
250 > Glorious Fighter = Gain for 7 Days no some Extra Glory for Player Kills in PvP/Stronghold Matches (even more if done with a Finishing Move!)
500 > Karmic Fighter = Gain the blessing for 7 days and a small portion of the Glory that you obtain, becomes also a Karma Reward for you.
750 > Golden Fighter = Gain the blessing for 7 days and a small portion of the Glory that you obtain, becomes also a Gold Reward for you that is affected also additionalyl by the Gold Find Account Bonus.
1000 > Fashion of Gladiators = Gain access for 7 days to PvP unique NPCs, that can sell you PvP unique Finishing Moves, PvP unique Skill Skins ect (see above WvW counterpart)
1500 > Famous Legend = Gain acces for 7 Days to a PvP unique NPC for the required items to obtain parts for a PvP unique Legendary Armor Skin Set that can be used only on Ascended Armor Sets to transform them into actually legendary armor parts with the full functionality of legendaries to swap stats out when using the equipment outside of PvP
2500 > Present of the Mists Increases Point Gain towards PvP Achievements for 7 Days by 100%, so when you usually would get +1 point towards an achievement, with this active you will get +2 points
5000 > Fury of Combat = Gain for 7 days the chance to obtain from PvP Reward Tracks new PvP unique Fury Weapon Skins
7500 > Glorious Stronghold Conqueror = Gain for 7 days increased glory from Stronghold Matches by +50% and gain also a chance to obtain while playing Stronghold access to new Heroes that you can unlock through fulfilling Heroic Trials in the PvP Lobby when you talk to the Mist Heroes to gain this way not only new Heroes, but also if you keep fulfilling Heroic Trials for them, you can unlock nw Hero Designs for those Heroes that you have already unlocked for your account.
10000 > King/Queen of Combat = Helps you out for 7 Days in PvP Tournament Tiers to lose not progression also in higher tiers than usual and makes comebacks a bit more rewarding in that time.

---

PvE Blessings for Victory Points

Costs == Effect
5 > Testament of Craftmanship = Increases for 7 Days the Chance for Critcal Craftings by 10%
15 > Fertile Season = Increases for 7 Days the Gathering Gain by 10%
25 > Hunting Season = Increases for 7 Days the Exp from killed Enemies by 20%
50 > Party Season = Increases for 7 Days the maximum Health and Endurance Regeneration for PvE by 10%, another 10% on top for when your World has won a WvW Match or when its Festival Time for the next time you use this Blessing.
75 > Mystic Force = Increases Healing Powers by 10% for 7 Days and when you gain in that time Mystic Coins, is the gained amount doubled.
100 > Ancient Wisdom = Increases Toughness for 7 Days by 10%
150 > Treasure Hunter = Opening daily Treasure Chests (JPs) in the next 7 days grants you increased chances for rare materials like Lodestones or T7 Crafting Materials
250 > Haggling Expertise = NPCs will sell you everything for 7 days for 25% Gold more and let you buy things for 25% reduced prices
500 >Traveler of Tyria = WPs will cost you 7 days 25% lesser Gold and grant you after usage for 1 Minute Super Speed
750 > Bounty Hunter = Increases for 7 Days the chances to obtain rarer loot from World Bosses and Champions by 5%. Certain killed World Bosses, like Tequatl or Tri Wurm will drop 100% guaranteed in that time Bounty Hunter Tokens, which can be turned in for specific Rewards, like for example the Sunbringer Weapons or Ascended Armor Chests of Choice.
1000 > Fashion of Adventurers = Gain access for 7 Days to PvE unique NPCs that can sell you PvE unique Finishing Moves, Outfits, Skill Skins ect.
1500 > Blessing of Zomorros = Increases chances for 7 days to obtain something more valuable from Zomorros, than what you have thrown into the Mystic Forge by 10%
2500 > Kiss of Rebirth = When you die, you automatically use an Orb of Revival (even if you have none) for the next 7 days and you won’t have the negative effect of health reduction, you will move slowly only, for some longer time. The only exception for this effect is, if you would get revived at a place, where you would instantly die again! Places like the Thaumanova Reactor’s Boss battle for example
5000 > Eye of Discoverery = Increases Rewards for 7 Days from Map Competions by 100% and Map Event Rewards are also doubled for you in this time from doing Events and come in faster than usual
7500 > Relic Hunter = Increases for 7 Days significantly the drop chances from Champions and World Bosses to obtain unique skinned Exotic Items (in general exotic items, including Accessoires, stuff like Pendant of Orr for example) as also precursor drops of the first generation of Legendary Weapons in that case of Dragon Minion World Bosses only
10000 > Legendary Craftmanship = Deactivates for 7 days all kinds of time gates for your account so that you can craft as many items as you have materials for it directly, without having to obsoletely wait a day for it to become able to craft again.
Crafting Exp Gain is also doubled in this time and all items you craft will give you Exp, even stuff, that usually would give you no Exp anymore.
Crafting can produce while you have this Blessing up also randomly with a small chance a byproduct, called Essences of Expertise, which when used gives a Character Crafting Ranks based on the Quality of the Essence towards the Crafting Jobs that are currently active, which are either +1,3,5 or +10 Ranks if it was a legendary Essence of Expertise (this will reduce the Crafting Grind if you want to have more characters with high crafting ranks somewhen so that you dont have to swap always to 1 specific character if you need a specific Crafting Job for a task…)

Just some examples of how you could split up the power of the mists Feature into a game wide Blessing feature, that offers for each game Mode invependant own unique Blessings for different amounts of Victory points, which all last for 7 days and need then to be renewed by the player for Victory points, if he wants to get the effect of that blessing again by going to a Shrine where the Victory Points gen be spent for receiving those Blessings

Stop rewarding players who don’t participate in WvW with passive rewards from WvW. WvW rewards need to be tied to WvW participation only.

Luvpie.8350:

greyseer.1806:

Oh god this is going to alienate a lot of people, and make them feel like what they contribute isn’t worth while, driving more people away from WvW. Please do not make one time zone of scoring worth more than any other time. And this is coming from a NA prime time player. Last thing we need is people leaving WvW again.

+1 Let’s not give people excuse to stack NA servers and desert bottom tier combinations to have higher chance to win..

I agree. WvW is going back into the rabbit hole again.

I didn’t vote at all, didn’t like either option. Period. As I said on the voting thread, there are PLENTY of other things that should have been addressed, and need to be addressed, before “scoring” or QoL.

And yet, there wasn’t a third option of “something else” with instructions to make a suggestion. Nope. Scoring or QoL. Either/or. Pick one. And deal with it.

And that’s where things get out of touch.

I don’t understand why people think their time zones won’t matter anymore.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Changes to Match Structure:

• We’ll split the week long matches into 2 hour time slices we are calling ‘Skirmishes’
• Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
• Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement
• Victory Points are used to determine Match victor
• When a Skirmish ends, Warscore is reset, but actual map-state remains unchanged

Benefits

• Winning a Skirmish by a small margin, or a large margin, awards the same number of victory points.
• This keeps the winning and losing scores closer together, allowing the losing worlds a fighting chance
• Teams will still want to win as many time slices as possible, off-hours coverage is still important, but less dominant

You will want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. Match victor will be who ever earned the most victory points. Scores reset every 2 hours and winner gets victory points after the scores reset. Only way to get the most victory points is to win more time slices than the other 2 servers.

Now that I actually typed this out, off hour servers can still probably win more time slices than just NA primetime servers so not much may even change. That is where the below comes into play

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Potential (controversial) additional change:

• While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
• This is the Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier system
  • This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
  • During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
  • During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
  • It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

This is just an additional plan for if the 2 hour time slices make no difference at all. We won’t be getting this right off the bat. They will poll on this before it even comes into play to see how we feel after the time sliced scoring system comes into play.

In the end though you’ll still want the most coverage you can get.

I still think PPK should be encouraging players to utilise the stomp mechanic more. Currently, zergs can get points by simply instantly mowing down single players with little actual effort or skill on their part. The contribution of people actually looking for fights and using all their knowledge and skill to win those fights are just undermined in the current system by having the same relative impact on PPK. Personally, I think extra points from PPK should only be awarded from stomps – something that can occur in smaller scaled, more manageable and skill led battles. After all, zergs don’t stomp because it’s quicker for everyone to just auto-attack a thing to death.

tappajabob.5983:

Did I understand this correctly?

Win the skirmish on prime time, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “night”, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “morning”, get X points.
Win the skirmish during “daytime”, get X points.

If I did how are people saying that it is unfair for their time zone?

Action Level, Victory Point Multiplier system and the Last stand mechanics. Winning the 2hr skirmish blocks during primetime could be worth 3x the points compared to winning during off-times, when their are less players in wvw. Hopefully its a dynamic system not a set time period since some match-ups could be between servers with large Sea/OCX populations.

The last stand mechanic is so-so because of reset. A lot of wvwer take it easy before reset but if every skirmish is worth 2x the pt on the final day it will enable comeback in close matches. Wvwer’s will have to choose between winning the previous match-up or playing during reset. Still their will be no rewards changes until after the scoring fix.

[Idea] : Track PPK separately from PPT

I think it would be cool to have multiple scoring mechanics tracked separately, so that players with different goals can feel like they are contributing to whatever system they want.

PPT (or points per capture/defense/dolyak/whatever it ends up being) would be the world score.

PPK would be tracked separately per player and per guild, and not added to the world score.

At the end of the match, there would be a winning world, but there might be guilds and players in the 2nd and 3rd place worlds that did better in PPK.

First of all, thank you for the recent changes and what seems to be coming in the bear future. It feels like you are making up for the last 3 years, and even more than that!

My opinion on the PPK matter is that, even though I enjoy fighting myself alot more then capping/defending, a multiplier of 5 would be too much. You said yourself that you could imagine something about a 3-5×. Keep it at the lower end. 5x the points means something around a 150000 points in some matchups and could potentially make the players focus on PPK too much as it would make up for 50% of the actual points. That would also lead to the idea of not engaging in fights, because lower numbers normally will loose fights and thus give away more points than they can get through capping/defending an object. => Making alot of the good changes to nothing

Thank you for your work guys!

Chaba.5410:

fishball.7204:

What starts off as a great night of WvW devolves into karma trains because they wipe a few times and go back to PvE or whatever especially now that they don’t lose as much PPT by not defending.

Then they should lose, no? And they will lose much PPT btw because the activity level is static per skirmish. No details are given on what method exactly will be used to determine activity level, only that it will be done in such a way so that it is not gamable by population logging off right before the start of a skirmish period.

I’m curious to see how the skirmish system alone would work without favoring a static primetime with Activity levels. Activity level is a concept that bothers me for the simple reason that it seems kind of complex and definitely won’t be understood by the average player.

Yeah they should lose (the PPT) but then they realize they never have a chance of winning in any week (in that skirmish/timeslot) and quit completely. Just look at DB’s SEA when ND rekt them, went from 2 map queues to pretty much just RF even with the ‘easy’ ability to PPT. If you take out all that and make PPT matter even less then who will bother being there getting farmed? No one.

Of course you’re right it depends on how the system is implemented but my experience has always been people tend to either be fighters or dodgers (of fights). This whole system of skirmish in time slices just makes it easier to dodge everything and log out if you find strong opposition without losing as much PPT.

xeysorso.3751:

Some ideas…

Problem 1: Off peak hours imbalance WvW outcomes should not be determined by WvW player population. Scoring should be balanced based on players actively pursuing goals for victory. It should be reliant on players at any any given time regardless of peak/off hours.

Solution: Scale the points according to players on that map.Say there is 50 players on Team A but only 10 players on Team B. Kills for the Team with 10 players would be worth 5 points but the Team with 50 players would only get 1 point per kill. This scaling point system can be implemented further if needed for objectives and balance.

I’m all for anything that penalizes the cheezy alliances that stack servers. They are the bane of WvW.

But this doesn’t go far enough imo. Anyone that transfers to a stacked server should be given a PERMANENT anti-buff that lessens their xp, gold, items drops and damage output. If you want to cheese through life you should be slapped down.

TingleTangle, I think making ppk ~50% of the points is exactly what we want.

- It will ally the prime time guilds with scouts and defenders. No longer will fights barely contribute to the matchup. Even if the guilds don’t care about the points they will still be signifiucantly helping those that do.

- Having run the numbers using, historic data for, EU, NA, top and bottom of the league, at 5ppk the prime time 4 hours will score about 75%-100% more than 4 hours with just a handful, as opposed to only about 15%-30% now. It will be worth trying to earn points because it won’t all be outdone by a tiny number a few hours later. It should make the scoring more relevant to all.

- If another time zone has its own prime-time it can contribute every bit as much to the matchup.

- In so much as anyone cares about the score, it will actually reduce blobbing IMO. Right now blobs make a massive contribution to the score through ppt. With more ppk, rolling over objectives unopposed will contribute less. Instead, winning proper fights will be the way to amass points. Servers that want to win matchups will need to improve their fighting skills, not just blob numbers, especially off-peak.

But the great thing about ppk is the systems are already in place for it. It should be very easy to change the multiplier. If 5ppk did turn out to have undesired consequences it could be easily reduced to 3 or 4. On the other hand, we might even decide we want it to be 6 or 7 points per kill and guarantee that the points per hour in a busy time period (whenever that might be and whatever players bring it about) will be more than double a dead period, which seems very reasonable.

Skirmish idea is very clumsy. A far better solution would be to dynamically calculate and adjust score per tick based on a moving average of the number of active players per server over the past hour as a proportion of the active population of all 3 servers per tick.

eg:

• server A has 2K active players, B has 1.5K, C has 1.8K. PPT.
• server A is currently ticking at 300 PPT, B 100, C 200.
• actual awarded score is scaled as follows:
  # A = 300ppt * (5300/2000) / 3 = 265ppt
  # B = 100ppt * (5300/1500) / 3 = 117ppt
  # C = 200ppt * (5300/1800) / 3 = 196ppt

This is using a basic linear scaling whereas actual performance vs population size probably scales geometrically/logarithmically but you get the idea.

The rest of the changes are good.

After dictating when people play open world pve, anet now wants to control what time people play wvw too. Lmaoo. Pretty amusing. What is this fetish you have with time, are you on a schedule or something? Please stop doing anything anymore, I get the feeling that more something is done the more it is ruined.