Guild Wars 2

Chaba.5410:

Wall of text, scroll up to read it.

Very well said Chaba. Though I still completely disagree with your point of view. Your point of view is that the lack of interest in WvW stems from “Coverage Wars” as you put it and from a lack of variation in match-ups. I disagree with that assumption. Do you think being in a match with BG, JQ, YB, TC, FA are any different? My home is JQ but, I have accounts scattered all over the tops tiers. On any single day I can jump around matches. Does it feel any different at all, no not at all. There is no substantial uniqueness to matches with other Worlds.

I feel the lack of interest in WvW stems from a lack of World building by the dev’s. WvW was at it’s best when players retained World pride. As that World pride waned, WvW interest fell too.

One thing is for certain, a scoring system with a bias toward time of day is utterly discriminatory. Though I may have said it satirically on Reddit, this proposed system is meant to bolster and create an NA, EU, and an letter F followed by a letter U.

don’t think this has been posted here yet:

*[–]Anet-TylerB 4 points 1 day ago *
It’ll likely take a number of months to complete all the scoring changes, though we plan to release incremental progress in the form of live betas. The timeline also depends on if the community maintains that scoring is a priority, and they don’t vote for us to shift focus to another feature, like World Linking or Reward Tracks.
No additional WvW Tournaments are currently planned. While they were good for the game in the short term, in the long term they’ve proved to be unhealthy. This means we’ll want to repurpose WvW Tournament Tickets, possibly just as a general match reward, so that players can continue to earn the unique WvW weapon skins.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ilemt/current_plans_for_wvw_scoring_overhaul/d309hco?context=3

Hope you all realize that the controversial change would only happen if time slicing did not help much in the first place, and even then they would do a poll to see if the players would really want that change implemented.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued.

If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.

Personally I don’t think bonus victory points for prime time is needed, nor do I like the idea of random action hours. Not every server has the same coverage even in NA prime, so you would just do the reverse of what’s happening and hand over points to the biggest coverage servers but in their prime instead of their off hours, which doesn’t fix the problem.

BG I’m sure is a server that would be able to cover all 6 hours of prime scoring and even the random action hours, a server like Ehmry or NSP or DH not so much, even with their links. The idea here is suppose to be about preventing runaway scores so that servers have a better chance at each other, and then leading to stuff like the tournaments and better rewards. That’s not going to happen when you take the points scoring extreme from one side to the other.

Finally many call for population balance but never offer the solutions. What do you all want them to do? they lock the full servers already, hell 12 of the 24 are locked right now. Players also created this mess by stacking when they had the choice not to do so. Want to help them fix the mess? move your guilds down a tier or two, or wait in 60 man queues every night, your choice.

mcarswell.3768:

don’t think this has been posted here yet:

*[–]Anet-TylerB 4 points 1 day ago *
It’ll likely take a number of months to complete all the scoring changes, though we plan to release incremental progress in the form of live betas. The timeline also depends on if the community maintains that scoring is a priority, and they don’t vote for us to shift focus to another feature, like World Linking or Reward Tracks.
No additional WvW Tournaments are currently planned. While they were good for the game in the short term, in the long term they’ve proved to be unhealthy. This means we’ll want to repurpose WvW Tournament Tickets, possibly just as a general match reward, so that players can continue to earn the unique WvW weapon skins.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ilemt/current_plans_for_wvw_scoring_overhaul/d309hco?context=3

Unless there are selections among those " unique wvw weapon skins" for sparkly bi frost like rainbow unicorn fantastic options I am still not interested. XD

I doubt they would have a variety enough for different types of players for most players to actually want to use them as most of the skins in the game are so " meh" players do not even bother ever using them.

I really hope they haven’t started on this mess of scoring changes yet so they can" start over" with their ideas on this and go in a different direction entirely.
The idea that they need to treat players anything but equal should have never gotten past the brain to the lips little lone actually presented to the player base to consider it is that bad of an idea.

I have no idea why or how anyone could have thought that would be okay to do. Every player paid for the game just the same, there were no stipulations prior to buying the game that said " If you work/ play during this time of day your time is not as valuable as everyone else so don’t bother purchasing this game unless you play withing this 6 hour time frame." That is how poorly this was thought out.

I haven’t even gotten started on the whole" last stand" nonsense.. making special times for points to matter more that are only convenient for part of your population playing the game does not solve the problems, it just creates more problems so you have to remove all this junk then go back and solve the initial problem causing this mess in the first place eventually anyhow wasting MORE resources and making more players leave the game before that happens.

They are sending a very clear message with this:

DO not buy this game if you do not play during the 6 hour period and designated last stand zone. Take your business elsewhere.

Ironically, they would consider tournaments " unhealthy" then propose a scoring system that punishes players for what time they work/ play and still continues to reward avoid fights, PvD, kill NPC, get chest, zerg siege hump = WIN!

UNHEALTHY? ! Seriously?!

Oh look, they are going to base their decision on a poll where anybody can sign up with multiple free accounts to vote.

Currently winning fights already awards the victor by being able to take camps, keeps and towers.

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

Roxanne.6140:

Oh look, they are going to base their decision on a poll where anybody can sign up with multiple free accounts to vote.

Currently winning fights already awards the victor by being able to take camps, keeps and towers.

free accounts can’t use these forums as far as i know

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Roxanne.6140:

Oh look, they are going to base their decision on a poll where anybody can sign up with multiple free accounts to vote.

Currently winning fights already awards the victor by being able to take camps, keeps and towers.

Not it doesn’t.. not at all. Currently it rewards the players that AVOID the fights and go take camps, keeps and towers that are undefended. Avoiding fights is how YB made it to T1, and why everyone got bored and left…

The best way to win in the current system and the proposed system is to AVOID fights, PvD when no one is there, kill the NPC’s, build ACs and balis and cats and shield gens and Trebs and then make sure your zerg gets into those towers and keeps fast enough to not allow anyone to die then get on siege and kill the 5 people outside! Doesn’t that sound fun? YAY!

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

you’re still not getting it. re-read the OP. based on the reaction so far, the Action Level bit is not likely to be implemented at all…

Potential (controversial) additional change:
While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.

mcarswell.3768:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

you’re still not getting it. re-read the OP

Potential (controversial) additional change:
While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.

Am getting it perfectly clear. They stated prime time was not based on the prime time for THAT server but on this:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

What you just pointed out was if those servers still score more outside of prime time they may take even further actions to punish those players for not playing within the 6 hour period.. and this is good how? What do servers do that have no NA prime coverage but their prime time is OCX or SEA?

Allowing them to drop tier by devaluing their scores only ensure they would be matched up with servers with no OCX coverage since all of those that have OCX coverage at all will be in the higher tiers.

lil devils x.6071:

mcarswell.3768:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

you’re still not getting it. re-read the OP

Potential (controversial) additional change:
While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.

Am getting it perfectly clear. They stated prime time was not based on the prime time for THAT server but on this:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

What you just pointed out was if those servers still score more outside of prime time they may take even further actions to punish those players for not playing within the 6 hour period.. and this is good how? What do servers do that have no NA prime coverage but their prime time is OCX or SEA?

Allowing them to drop tier by devaluing their scores only ensure they would be matched up with servers with no OCX coverage since all of those that have OCX coverage at all will be in the higher tiers.

you’re right…. IF they implement the second part of the system, which they probably won’t, because everyone is losing their kitten like you are.

mcarswell.3768:

lil devils x.6071:

mcarswell.3768:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

you’re still not getting it. re-read the OP

Potential (controversial) additional change:
While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.

Am getting it perfectly clear. They stated prime time was not based on the prime time for THAT server but on this:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

What you just pointed out was if those servers still score more outside of prime time they may take even further actions to punish those players for not playing within the 6 hour period.. and this is good how? What do servers do that have no NA prime coverage but their prime time is OCX or SEA?

Allowing them to drop tier by devaluing their scores only ensure they would be matched up with servers with no OCX coverage since all of those that have OCX coverage at all will be in the higher tiers.

you’re right…. IF they implement the second part of the system, which they probably won’t, because everyone is losing their kitten like you are.

Yes, I am losing my kitten about it because:

1) To even propose such a thing as player inequality due to what time they are able to play is seriously seriously messed up.

2) Why care about the score?
It is still trying to prop up the very reason players do not care about the score. They are still rewarding PvD and siege humping, the same reason many stopped playing the game and caring about winning. Winning still = Avoid fights, PvD undefended objectives, zerg siege hump to make sure none of your players die.. PASSIVE scoring is the problem here more so than anything and I see no where that it is being removed.

3)What is the incentive to fight over objectives instead of PvD undefended objectives and fight in the fields instead? I am not seeing one. That was part of the scoring issues that needed to be addressed causing further divide in the community rather than uniting it.

They are not solving the problems and are only proposing a scoring system that creates more problems rather than address the actual cause of the problem ( rewarding bad game play).

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

Of course they can always PvD empty objectives, the key is the game should not reward them for doing so. Players have changed DUE to the game changing. Change the game and the players will change again. Why do players try to win in PvP and not WvW? Why do other large scale PvP games are the players trying to win? Why are so many not trying to win here?

It is the game design that is fault here, not the players. Reward the players for fighting OVER the objective INSTEAD of the objective itself and players will fight over that objective. The objective doesn’t do anything to win, it just sits there. It should not be scoring points on it’s own doing nothing. LOL

It affecting the amount of LOOT and score players receive while fighting over it though and it will actually have value to the players. The reward and scoring system must be intertwined to really solve this issue well. Rewards and winning should be one in the same issue.

As long as they reward players for not fighting (bad game play /Passive scoring) of course players are not going to care about winning.

Chaba.5410:

You’re not really arguing for equality though. The current scoring system is designed for teams of equal size. That doesn’t happen in WvW, which alienates players right now. We can assume there will always be some form of population disparity, which creates the whole point of the scoring discussion, create a system that is designed for teams of unequal size. Any asymmetrical scoring system is going to be unequal precisely because the team sizes are unequal. It doesn’t matter if the system adds a multiplier for NA prime, or uses time-sliced skirmishes with set Victory points which devalue score differentials, or if it adjusts point values based on real-time map population through outnumbered buff or other similar means. Every proposal here devalues players on one side in some way. There will be pockets of players that always will be “alienated” by an asymmetrical scoring system until population shifts. What JQ is discussing internally is irrelevant.

I disagree, some of the proposals take account of differences in total population and activity level without making those in off hours feel discriminated against and devalued as the anet proposal does. It could be that the effect on the final score and result is not that much different but perception is reality

As for JQ I only mentioned it because you seemed to imply that JQ was worrying about this and using it as a cover when they should be dealing with other issues, this is not the case.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

Of course they can always PvD empty objectives, the key is the game should not reward them for doing so. Players have changed DUE to the game changing. Change the game and the players will change again. Why do players try to win in PvP and not WvW? Why do other large scale PvP games are the players trying to win? Why are so many not trying to win here?

It is the game design that is fault here, not the players. Reward the players for fighting OVER the objective INSTEAD of the objective itself and players will fight over that objective. The objective doesn’t do anything to win, it just sits there. It should not be scoring points on it’s own doing nothing. LOL

It affecting the amount of LOOT and score players receive while fighting over it though and it will actually have value to the players. The reward and scoring system must me intertwined to really solve this issue well.

As long as they reward players for not fighting (bad game play /Passive scoring) of course players are not going to care about winning.

game mode has always been about taking over and controlling the lands. i get rewarded every time i get into a fight.. my reward is killing other players.. i don’t need massive loot bags to get my joys off in wvw.. the reward i get is killing other players and fighting for the server i am on. for many players the reward is taking empty objectives and getting that awesome champ box. so be it.. i still do not wvw for rewards or check the score every second.. i wvw to kill other players and seem to do it every single time i play.. people make it sound like this game mode is nothing but fighting doors. maybe its like that for you in off hours so yes maybe that multipler should be added to the scoring system right off the bat

DeWolfe.2174:

We’re fighting for a share of the total, always. Those 10 OCX players are fighting for a portion of the whole 100%, just as those 100 NA players are. If anything, I could argue that it’s not fair those 10 OCX players are doing 10x’s the labor of the NA players!!! They should get 10x’s the rewards!!!

“Since I’m (OCX) worth so much, I should be rewarded even more!”

What an entitled nightcapper.

DeWolfe.2174:

Dawdler.8521:

10x the labor? What labor?

Have you ever solo’d a keep lord? That’s a whole lot more effort and skill than doing it with 30+. The point was, you still have the same amount of territory to manage with less man power.

Must be nice having undefended keeps to take. I’m sure your pve is more skillful than pvping for a keep.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

Of course they can always PvD empty objectives, the key is the game should not reward them for doing so. Players have changed DUE to the game changing. Change the game and the players will change again. Why do players try to win in PvP and not WvW? Why do other large scale PvP games are the players trying to win? Why are so many not trying to win here?

It is the game design that is fault here, not the players. Reward the players for fighting OVER the objective INSTEAD of the objective itself and players will fight over that objective. The objective doesn’t do anything to win, it just sits there. It should not be scoring points on it’s own doing nothing. LOL

It affecting the amount of LOOT and score players receive while fighting over it though and it will actually have value to the players. The reward and scoring system must me intertwined to really solve this issue well.

As long as they reward players for not fighting (bad game play /Passive scoring) of course players are not going to care about winning.

game mode has always been about taking over and controlling the lands. i get rewarded every time i get into a fight.. my reward is killing other players.. i don’t need massive loot bags to get my joys off in wvw.. the reward i get is killing other players and fighting for the server i am on. for many players the reward is taking empty objectives and getting that awesome champ box. so be it.. i still do not wvw for rewards or check the score every second.. i wvw to kill other players and seem to do it every single time i play.. people make it sound like this game mode is nothing but fighting doors. maybe its like that for you in off hours so yes maybe that multipler should be added to the scoring system right off the bat

So again, you obviously do not care about the score. Now imagine for a second a basketball game going on.. you have players on the court trying to score for their team and prevent the other team from scoring.. then you have these other guys who decided to play hop scotch in the middle of the court. For every guy playing hopscotch, one guy from whatever side they came from loses a player in the actual game. THIS is what is happening in WvW, and you would be one of the guys playing hop scotch on the court if you are not trying to win preventing one of their players from being on the court. Now if this were to happen in a basketball game , all hell would break loose and physical fights would probably ensue.

Now we have a few options here to remedy this. For example, you can:

1) kick the hopscotch players off the court making them mad but is what would actually happen in a real basketball game.

2) find some way to incorporate the hopscotch game into the actual score so the other players trying to win do not want to set them on fire and they are actually contributing.

3) Make the hopscotch players WANT to win by making it worth their while to do so, so you have more players playing the basketball game to win than are messing around in the middle of the court.

See now, I think since the hopscotch players bought the game like everyone else they should be treated equally like everyone else and would rather opt to combine solutions 2 and 3 to solve the problem.

The issue has become since most players consider it embarrassing to win since winning means you PvD and siege hump real good, they need to change that and make people enjoy winning rather than being a lame PvDer for winning. Make it worth their while to win and reward the better players for winning and players will try to win.

You are overlooking a large part of the population that would like to fight AND win, and the reason they do not. 99.9% of the game rewards players for PvE, so this small part of the game does not need to do so. Those that want rewarded for PvE can go to PvE for that already. There is no place here you can be rewarded for large scale PvP except in WvW.

Cake.4920:

DeWolfe.2174:

We’re fighting for a share of the total, always. Those 10 OCX players are fighting for a portion of the whole 100%, just as those 100 NA players are. If anything, I could argue that it’s not fair those 10 OCX players are doing 10x’s the labor of the NA players!!! They should get 10x’s the rewards!!!

“Since I’m (OCX) worth so much, I should be rewarded even more!”

What an entitled nightcapper.

DeWolfe.2174:

Dawdler.8521:

10x the labor? What labor?

Have you ever solo’d a keep lord? That’s a whole lot more effort and skill than doing it with 30+. The point was, you still have the same amount of territory to manage with less man power.

Must be nice having undefended keeps to take. I’m sure your pve is more skillful than pvping for a keep.

Do you actually have an argument to present, or are you just going to jump on the ‘PvD’ logic, which is completely untrue in T1?

Last night, BG and DB were queued for WvW in the middle of ‘non-primetime’, that is, OCX time. No PvD – just three large factions fighting one another. With the new system, that will be all for less value than those in primetime though.

What an entitled primetimer.

lil devils x.6071:

Roxanne.6140:

Oh look, they are going to base their decision on a poll where anybody can sign up with multiple free accounts to vote.

Currently winning fights already awards the victor by being able to take camps, keeps and towers.

Not it doesn’t.. not at all. Currently it rewards the players that AVOID the fights and go take camps, keeps and towers that are undefended. Avoiding fights is how YB made it to T1, and why everyone got bored and left…

The best way to win in the current system and the proposed system is to AVOID fights, PvD when no one is there, kill the NPC’s, build ACs and balis and cats and shield gens and Trebs and then make sure your zerg gets into those towers and keeps fast enough to not allow anyone to die then get on siege and kill the 5 people outside! Doesn’t that sound fun? YAY!

I don’t know why but it feels like two completely different worlds between playing wvw and reading the forums. It just feels like one is a paper war and another is the actual game itself.

There’s no point in arguing this anyway. The way the post was made shows that the patch is coming for sure. I just wanted to know the date of coming to be ready when it comes

Jiminy.8340:

Last night, BG and DB were queued for WvW in the middle of ‘non-primetime’, that is, OCX time. No PvD – just three large factions fighting one another. With the new system, that will be all for less value than those in primetime though.

What an entitled primetimer.

Did you even read Tyler’s first post? Scoring is based on activity, so if you have active WvW outside of NA hours, you still get full points.

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

Of course they can always PvD empty objectives, the key is the game should not reward them for doing so. Players have changed DUE to the game changing. Change the game and the players will change again. Why do players try to win in PvP and not WvW? Why do other large scale PvP games are the players trying to win? Why are so many not trying to win here?

It is the game design that is fault here, not the players. Reward the players for fighting OVER the objective INSTEAD of the objective itself and players will fight over that objective. The objective doesn’t do anything to win, it just sits there. It should not be scoring points on it’s own doing nothing. LOL

It affecting the amount of LOOT and score players receive while fighting over it though and it will actually have value to the players. The reward and scoring system must me intertwined to really solve this issue well.

As long as they reward players for not fighting (bad game play /Passive scoring) of course players are not going to care about winning.

game mode has always been about taking over and controlling the lands. i get rewarded every time i get into a fight.. my reward is killing other players.. i don’t need massive loot bags to get my joys off in wvw.. the reward i get is killing other players and fighting for the server i am on. for many players the reward is taking empty objectives and getting that awesome champ box. so be it.. i still do not wvw for rewards or check the score every second.. i wvw to kill other players and seem to do it every single time i play.. people make it sound like this game mode is nothing but fighting doors. maybe its like that for you in off hours so yes maybe that multipler should be added to the scoring system right off the bat

So again, you obviously do not care about the score. Now imagine for a second a basketball game going on.. you have players on the court trying to score for their team and prevent the other team from scoring.. then you have these other guys who decided to play hop scotch in the middle of the court. For every guy playing hopscotch, one guy from whatever side they came from loses a player in the actual game. THIS is what is happening in WvW, and you would be one of the guys playing hop scotch on the court if you are not trying to win preventing one of their players from being on the court. Now if this were to happen in a basketball game , all hell would break loose and physical fights would probably ensue.

Now we have a few options here to remedy this. For example, you can:

1) kick the hopscotch players off the court making them mad but is what would actually happen in a real basketball game.

2) find some way to incorporate the hopscotch game into the actual score so the other players trying to win do not want to set them on fire and they are actually contributing.

3) Make the hopscotch players WANT to win by making it worth their while to do so, so you have more players playing the basketball game to win than are messing around in the middle of the court.

See now, I think since the hopscotch players bought the game like everyone else they should be treated equally like everyone else and would rather opt to combine solutions 2 and 3 to solve the problem.

The issue has become since most players consider it embarrassing to win since winning means you PvD and siege hump real good, they need to change that and make people enjoy winning rather than being a lame PvDer for winning. Make it worth their while to win and reward the better players for winning and players will try to win.

You are overlooking a large part of the population that would like to fight AND win, and the reason they do not. 99.9% of the game rewards players for PvE, so this small part of the game does not need to do so. Those that want rewarded for PvE can go to PvE for that already. There is no place here you can be rewarded for large scale PvP except in WvW.

I’m obviously trying to show you all that your time zones will still matter but your all stuck on that additional plan and the multipler ignoring every thing else said. so in a way i do care. i play to have fun. the main reason i play isn’t to look at the score. you have to win every now and than or you lose players. winning boost server morale. losing week after week by blowouts breaks morale. something needs to change because it has been this way for a long time now. yes i like to win but not by a blow outs. i prefer closer match ups and i do not even remember the last time there was a close match up.. if any of these changes bring that to wvw I see more people playing each and everyday instead of playing the first few days and that is it.. Even this week has died down already. won’t know till we test it

I don’t compare games to real life either so didn’t really read much of what else you said. its not like it is any different then what you have already been saying.. you are tired of pvd’ing and blame the game mode.. i blame the players because they would rather pvd instead of fight.

Roxanne.6140:

lil devils x.6071:

Roxanne.6140:

Oh look, they are going to base their decision on a poll where anybody can sign up with multiple free accounts to vote.

Currently winning fights already awards the victor by being able to take camps, keeps and towers.

Not it doesn’t.. not at all. Currently it rewards the players that AVOID the fights and go take camps, keeps and towers that are undefended. Avoiding fights is how YB made it to T1, and why everyone got bored and left…

The best way to win in the current system and the proposed system is to AVOID fights, PvD when no one is there, kill the NPC’s, build ACs and balis and cats and shield gens and Trebs and then make sure your zerg gets into those towers and keeps fast enough to not allow anyone to die then get on siege and kill the 5 people outside! Doesn’t that sound fun? YAY!

I don’t know why but it feels like two completely different worlds between playing wvw and reading the forums. It just feels like one is a paper war and another is the actual game itself.

There’s no point in arguing this anyway. The way the post was made shows that the patch is coming for sure. I just wanted to know the date of coming to be ready when it comes

No, the way the post was made, it isn’t coming for sure, this is our time to speak up or forever hold our peace. Speaking up was how Alpine came back. If we so not speak up this is what happens, so I surely hope people speak up rather than just leave when it does.

If you have played against YB, the above mentioned PvD zerg siege humping method of winning was far from a paper war, it is what killed T1 and made many leave the game over the awful game play caused by the promoted PvD endgame win reward mentioned above. If this is not resolved in scoring, it will not be the last time we see that happen as long as you can win that way.

Jiminy.8340:

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Which they will only think about implementing if time slicing does not do the job of mitigating off hour scoring. People need to relax and stop talking about it like it’s going in with the first changes to scoring.

Jiminy.8340:

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
• During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.

If you have active WvW during non primetime, you score just as much as primetime.

Cake.4920:

Jiminy.8340:

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
• During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.

If you have active WvW during non primetime, you score just as much as primetime.

Ok if so then the suggestion sounds good. But I demand for everyone to be able to change server for free at least once so we can all arrange ourselves according to our timezones

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

You guys are all stuck on the part with the multipler which is an additional plan that will not likely happen since it will be polled on. chances are if you are fighting other players round the clock you will be getting the full credit.. its manly for those 600+ tick nights that happen at times which leads to blowout scores over 1 night. like i said before you will still want to win as many time slices as you can.. every time slice is important to win. the more you win the better

Not every time slice, only the time slices that are scored the highest. If you do not play in the allotted 6 hour time slices, your time is not as valuable as everyone else’s so you should just go play a game that you are of the same value as everyone else playing. The message is pretty clear on that here.

again you still don’t get it. the multipler is an additional plan if matches are still blow outs.. lets face it matches have been decided over the weekend for a very long time now and they are boring for both sides.. its not fun always blowing out the opponents and it is not fun being blown out. this leads to players not playing during the week because A: they already won or B: they have no way to catch up

if these changes make it so there is a reason to fight each and every day i will play more.. if these changes still don’t change much I won’t play more.

and as for that 6 hours prime time thing you posted.. again that is for the additional plan

Matches are blow outs due to rewarding passive scoring. Please show me where they removed passive scoring so they stop rewarding lazy gameplay. Matches are over before they started due to players not caring about the score due to the system rewarding passive scoring ( aka Lazy/ bad gameplay). THAT is the single most important issue affecting scoring and it is not even being addressed.

Please show me where it makes players care about the score again by removing reward for PvD and zerg siege humping? PvD and Zerge siege humping are the biggest factors affecting whether or not players care about the score or try to win. T he matches will go all week and players will fight over objectives if they make them care to win. I do not see them doing that.. at all.

As long as PvD undefended objectives and Zerge siege hump = win, the score will not matter. That is what needed to be resolved most with scoring and it is not even being addressed.

They do not even need to complicate it if they just addressed the core issues.

as long as players let others pvd empty objectives they will always pvd empty objectives. players have changed and unless they change again nothing will change. if you didn’t have your map queues in 1 spot on the map you wouldn’t have empty objectives to fight over.

Of course they can always PvD empty objectives, the key is the game should not reward them for doing so. Players have changed DUE to the game changing. Change the game and the players will change again. Why do players try to win in PvP and not WvW? Why do other large scale PvP games are the players trying to win? Why are so many not trying to win here?

It is the game design that is fault here, not the players. Reward the players for fighting OVER the objective INSTEAD of the objective itself and players will fight over that objective. The objective doesn’t do anything to win, it just sits there. It should not be scoring points on it’s own doing nothing. LOL

It affecting the amount of LOOT and score players receive while fighting over it though and it will actually have value to the players. The reward and scoring system must me intertwined to really solve this issue well.

As long as they reward players for not fighting (bad game play /Passive scoring) of course players are not going to care about winning.

game mode has always been about taking over and controlling the lands. i get rewarded every time i get into a fight.. my reward is killing other players.. i don’t need massive loot bags to get my joys off in wvw.. the reward i get is killing other players and fighting for the server i am on. for many players the reward is taking empty objectives and getting that awesome champ box. so be it.. i still do not wvw for rewards or check the score every second.. i wvw to kill other players and seem to do it every single time i play.. people make it sound like this game mode is nothing but fighting doors. maybe its like that for you in off hours so yes maybe that multipler should be added to the scoring system right off the bat

So again, you obviously do not care about the score. Now imagine for a second a basketball game going on.. you have players on the court trying to score for their team and prevent the other team from scoring.. then you have these other guys who decided to play hop scotch in the middle of the court. For every guy playing hopscotch, one guy from whatever side they came from loses a player in the actual game. THIS is what is happening in WvW, and you would be one of the guys playing hop scotch on the court if you are not trying to win preventing one of their players from being on the court. Now if this were to happen in a basketball game , all hell would break loose and physical fights would probably ensue.

Now we have a few options here to remedy this. For example, you can:

1) kick the hopscotch players off the court making them mad but is what would actually happen in a real basketball game.

2) find some way to incorporate the hopscotch game into the actual score so the other players trying to win do not want to set them on fire and they are actually contributing.

3) Make the hopscotch players WANT to win by making it worth their while to do so, so you have more players playing the basketball game to win than are messing around in the middle of the court.

See now, I think since the hopscotch players bought the game like everyone else they should be treated equally like everyone else and would rather opt to combine solutions 2 and 3 to solve the problem.

The issue has become since most players consider it embarrassing to win since winning means you PvD and siege hump real good, they need to change that and make people enjoy winning rather than being a lame PvDer for winning. Make it worth their while to win and reward the better players for winning and players will try to win.

You are overlooking a large part of the population that would like to fight AND win, and the reason they do not. 99.9% of the game rewards players for PvE, so this small part of the game does not need to do so. Those that want rewarded for PvE can go to PvE for that already. There is no place here you can be rewarded for large scale PvP except in WvW.

where did i say i don’t care about the score? I’m obviously trying to show you all that your time zones will still matter but your all stuck on that additional plan and the multipler ignoring every thing else said. i play to have fun. the main reason i play isn’t to look at the score. you have to win every now and than or you lose players. winning boost server morale. losing week after week by blowouts breaks morale. something needs to change because it has been this way for a long time now. yes i like to win but not by a blow outs. i prefer closer match ups and i do not even remember the last time there was a close match up.. if any of these changes bring that to wvw I see more people playing each and everyday instead of playing the first few days and that is it.. Even this week has died down already. won’t know till we test it

I don’t compare games to real life either so didn’t really read much of what else you said. its not like it is any different then what you have already been saying.. you are tired of pvd’ing and blame the game mode.. i blame the players because they would rather pvd instead of fight.

You win by closer matches due to playing against teams that can compete with one another, you should never ever try to prop up someone or apply handicaps to keep the score closer. All that does is ensure servers that should not be matched up together stay matched up longer. The reason that the matches are so far blown out is because they reward buildings for sitting there doing nothing rather than reward the players playing the game.

Basketball IS a game. Ping Pong is a game. Tennis is a game. chess is a game. Gw2 Is a game. You only have ONE life and it is all real no matter what game you are playing. I honestly cannot believe you actually just said " RL". LMAO
I play this game with REAL friends and family. It is no different than any game I play with real friends and family. Viewing it as anything else is just messed up.. really.

If you are too lazy to read because I am showing how this works in other games to give you a better understanding of the problem that needs addressed here, then I guess there is no point in discussing the issue you are not willing to understand.

Cake.4920:

Jiminy.8340:

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
• During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.

If you have active WvW during non primetime, you score just as much as primetime.

I imagine it won’t be based on your server population, but those that you are facing against.

Either way, it doesn’t worry me too much as I solo roam/havoc roam. I’m interested to see what will happen with all these servers with population disparities.

And it isn’t as simple as that. This means people won’t feel the incentive to stick around until a large group with a tag comes all together at once into the map. What happens now in maps with no guild groups is that sometimes people play without a tag and still find fights. If now u are saying that these people who conduct smaller fights but still throw the same siege cost matter little to the score then these straying people will be less likely to play now more than ever.

But those people will matter more to the score than if they played in primetime.

Consider two scenarios:

1. There are 20 people WvWing on each server, with a 1x multiplier.

2. There are 100 people WvWing on each server, with a 3x multiplier.

Each person in scenario 1 is worth 65% more than a person in scenario 2.

Cake.4920:

I’m sure your pve is more skillful than pvping for a keep.

In your case, let me just agree and say yes, fighting a Keep Lord takes far more skill than it does fighting you for it.

Cake.4920:

But those people will matter more to the score than if they played in primetime.

Consider two scenarios:

1. There are 20 people WvWing on each server, with a 1x multiplier.

2. There are 100 people WvWing on each server, with a 3x multiplier.

Each person in scenario 1 is worth 65% more than a person in scenario 2.

That would only be true if the PPT awarded by Keeps, Towers, Camps, and a Castle inflated by 65% per tick. Which, it does not and never has.

This entire thread fails at reading comprehension.

(And I don’t have the energy to even begin to try to correct it, it would take more text than I could fit into a single post.)

joneirikb.7506:

This entire thread fails at reading comprehension.

(And I don’t have the energy to even begin to try to correct it, it would take more text than I could fit into a single post.)

I would guess that you mean the fact that the prime and off hours multiplier is an optional, possible addition after the main changes and that they will have a poll on it.

I don’t think that means the discussion is wasted. It has given anet a good idea on where the community stands on it now and it has provided worthwhile suggestions for possible alternative methods, most of which are better than the anet proposal.

Cake.4920:

But those people will matter more to the score than if they played in primetime.

Consider two scenarios:

1. There are 20 people WvWing on each server, with a 1x multiplier.

2. There are 100 people WvWing on each server, with a 3x multiplier.

Each person in scenario 1 is worth 65% more than a person in scenario 2.

The question now is who is coming?? Do we want to come one by one or come all 50 at once?? Who is coming???!

Do we want a 50 man raid org for wvw each time??

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Hey guys, as most of your are probably aware, Scoring Improvements won over QoL improvements in the last poll. So now it’s time to delve deeper into what that means.

Hello to you, and thanks!

*We want to improve scoring for a few big reasons:*
* Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)
** It’s not okay that the time periods with the smallest number of active players have the largest impact on the score
** Of course we don’t want to alienate players who play during these period, off-hours coverage will still matter, it just will no longer be the primary factor in determining which world wins any given matchup
* Reduce the number of runaway matches
** That feeling of hopelessness when your team is down 100,000 points after a single day
* Give players a real opportunity to make a comeback
** Matches are often decided in the first few days, making playing in the final days feel pointless
* In conjunction with population rebalancing, updating Scoring allows us to decide a winner of a match more fairly, and thus reward players more fairly
** Currently we can’t give out worthwhile rewards for winning, as most match-ups are already decided before they begin

Agree with the reasoning of these.

*Next I’ll talk about how we plan to achieve those goals.*

*Changes to Match Structure:*
* We’ll split the week long matches into 2 hour time slices we are calling ’Skirmishes’
* Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
* Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement
* Victory Points are used to determine Match victor
* When a Skirmish ends, Warscore is reset, but actual map-state remains unchanged

*Benefits*
* Winning a Skirmish by a small margin, or a large margin, awards the same number of victory points.
* This keeps the winning and losing scores closer together, allowing the losing worlds a fighting chance
* Teams will still want to win as many time slices as possible, off-hours coverage is still important, but less dominant

Agree with/Like the time slice/Skirmish system. Would need to see it in action before I could come with any real suggestions or opinions to tweak it. Slightly curious at the choice of 2 hours instead of 3 hours, but that is irrelevant.

*Potential (controversial) additional change:*
* While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
* This is the *Action Level - Victory Point Multiplier* system
** This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
** During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
** During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
** It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

Considering this is *OPTIONAL* and *not planned for initial testing*, I really don’t understand why people are making such a fuzz about it.

But anyway, just remove the Automatic x3 multiplier to "Prime time", and let it be entirely "Activity based" and you will see 90% of the complaints here disappear.

I really don’t think it is needed anyway.

*Last Stand*
* Last Stand describes the final day of any week long matchup
* During Last Stand, Skirmish placement Victory Points are multiplied
* This is intended to make the last day of the match as exciting as the first, and provide a final comeback mechanic for teams that are behind

Undecided. I can see the reasoning behind it, but at the same time hat people that have played through the week would feel cheated.

I’d recommend testing without this first (Skirmish system first), then after 2 weeks, add it in and see how it runs. Give both yourself and us players some chance to compare with and without.

*Reduced the Score Tick Timer from 15 minutes to 5 minutes*
* This will guarantee that every objective is grants at least one score pulse before it can be flipped by another team.
* Objective Score will be reduce by 2/3rds since they’d be ticking 3x as often. This keeps the relative score from all sources the same.
* Reward Track points will also be ticking 3x as often, and likewise be decreased by 2/3rds.

Ok, not a big change, but makes sense.

Personally always wanted to see RI extended to 15 minutes, to move fights away from it until the next tick. Could have been interesting.

*Upgraded Objectives Score Higher*
* Each tier of objective upgrade increases the amount of score per tick
* The goal is to incentivize defending your upgraded objectives and assaulting opposing upgraded objectives

Not a fan of this, I understand why people feel it makes sense/natural etc, and want to be rewarded for upgrading and defending things. But this is also a receipt for run away scores in general...

*Points for Capture*
* Capturing an objective awards immediate score.
* If the objective is upgraded it is worth additional score.

...And because of how Tick vs Capture works, this isn’t enough to even out the advantage of increased ticks.

Also note that with increasing number of ticks, you’re "theoretically" increasing the tick 3x more times than normal (I’m guessing you’ve planned a bit for this, but it is one of those things that often get miss calculated).

I’d be more in favour for something like a bonus to points for upgrading, as a one time bonus, instead of as a tick.

*Points for Kill*
* The amount of score earned from PPK will be increased, so that it contributes more to the overall score.
* As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.
* We will also rebalance the Warscore for Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery and Sentry Captures.

Ok with most of this, only one complaint:

I’d like to see more of the Points Per Kill to be moved over to Points Per Stomp.

Reasoning: PPK often devolves into a zerg just running over smaller numbers, spamming attacks, and gets PPK points. Where securing a Stomp is generally harder, requires more teamwork/skill in most small/medium fights. It would also be an advantage for smaller groups, as opposed to large groups/zerg that have no problems contributing to the Battle anyway (Even if just for the fear factor).

*UI*
* Many of these new systems and changes will also necessitate updates to the UI, to display all this new information.

*Rewards*
* Once we have these scoring updates in, we can look at adding placement rewards for Skirmishes and Matches.

*Edit* - Fixed some minor errors in the text.

UI: Ok. Not much else to say to this generic statement.

Rewards: Ok. Think a lot of people would be happy for this.

Edit: \m/ *^_^* \m/ You that grammar man!

DeWolfe.2174:

Cake.4920:

But those people will matter more to the score than if they played in primetime.

Consider two scenarios:

1. There are 20 people WvWing on each server, with a 1x multiplier.

2. There are 100 people WvWing on each server, with a 3x multiplier.

Each person in scenario 1 is worth 65% more than a person in scenario 2.

That would only be true if the PPT awarded by Keeps, Towers, Camps, and a Castle inflated by 65% per tick. Which, it does not and never has.

Do you need a math lesson?

20 people who win a 1x multiplier skirmish = each person is responsible for 1/20th of the base victory points
100 people who win a 3x multiplier skirmish = each person is responsible for 3/100ths, or about 1/33rd of the base victory points

1/20th is 65% more than 1/33rd

Cake.4920:

DeWolfe.2174:

Cake.4920:

But those people will matter more to the score than if they played in primetime.

Consider two scenarios:

1. There are 20 people WvWing on each server, with a 1x multiplier.

2. There are 100 people WvWing on each server, with a 3x multiplier.

Each person in scenario 1 is worth 65% more than a person in scenario 2.

That would only be true if the PPT awarded by Keeps, Towers, Camps, and a Castle inflated by 65% per tick. Which, it does not and never has.

Do you need a math lesson?

20 people who win a 1x multiplier skirmish = each person is responsible for 1/20th of the base victory points
100 people who win a 3x multiplier skirmish = each person is responsible for 3/100ths, or about 1/33rd of the base victory points

1/20th is 65% more than 1/33rd

Do you need a reality lesson as 1 is still less than 3? So how is that equal? Is there 33% less territory to take, cover, and hold?

Do you need a reality lesson as 20 is still less than 100?

DeWolfe, would you rather have a 50% chance at winning $100 or a 10% chance of winning $300?

Cake.4920:

Do you need a reality lesson as 20 is still less than 100?

Why should that matter? What if 20 can achieve the work of that 100? They are still automatically worth less even though they are far more efficient?

DeWolfe.2174:

Cake.4920:

Do you need a reality lesson as 20 is still less than 100?

Why should that matter? What if 20 can achieve the work of that 100? They are still automatically worth less even though they are far more efficient?

It works the other way too. What if 100 can achieve the work of 500? They won’t get any more points either for efficiency. At least the 20 can try to get more people on the map.

morrolan.9608:

some of the proposals take account of differences in total population and activity level without making those in off hours feel discriminated against and devalued as the anet proposal does.

All of the proposals devalue the larger sized team and increase the value of the outnumbered team. That’s what any asymmetrical scoring system is supposed to do. Victory points don’t care if you won the two hour Skirmish by 200 points or 5000 points. Population based progressive points don’t care if you outnumber the opponent by 2:1 or 4:1. If you make more, you’re getting taxed more. But don’t worry because you will still be rich.

My head hurts trying to understand all these complex ideas on how to fix scoring.

I just wish ANet would fix the Base Map Mechanic so that scoring can be kept simple & elegant.

If the foundation is solid…the rest of the house is solid & easy to work with…imho.

morrolan.9608:

joneirikb.7506:

This entire thread fails at reading comprehension.

(And I don’t have the energy to even begin to try to correct it, it would take more text than I could fit into a single post.)

I would guess that you mean the fact that the prime and off hours multiplier is an optional, possible addition after the main changes and that they will have a poll on it.

I don’t think that means the discussion is wasted. It has given anet a good idea on where the community stands on it now and it has provided worthwhile suggestions for possible alternative methods, most of which are better than the anet proposal.

Good point.

Was just getting frustrated by reading through 9 pages of posts of people getting angry about an optional feature, they specified they would poll first. My bad.