Guild Wars 2

So recently Anet released a new trick in WvW called seige disabler. They anounced that this was supposed to do the following things:
- Slow down an assault on a tower so deffenders can react faster
- Eliminate Ram Stacking
Now let’s see what it actually does:
- Removes the variation of ramming gates nearly fully (especially when attacking towers with higher supply capacity (aka upgreaded ones)
- Removes the chance to quickly snipe badly deffended objects and punishing enemy for poor seiging.

Why it didn’t do what it was supposed to do:
“Slow down an assault on a tower so deffenders can react faster” – The ability to spam a tool to disable the enemy from attacking your objectives is a thing that should not exist. And that’s even worse when you can do it simply by throwing it at your gate from inside and still disable what is outside. The projectile can’t be blocked when it’s thrown behind the gate (at it) becouse it reaches the gate and applies it’s effect before it can reach any projectile blocking skills/etc (expect feedback I belive). So that makes the original intention of Anet of throwing the trick being risky as it is such a useful tool completely useless.

“Eliminate Ram Stacking” – That was a very good idea but it also failed. The Effect range of the ability is absolutely insane and on most of the gates in the came as of now (expect SM and maybe some keep doors) It covers the ENTIRE field where you can put a ram. So even if you put one as much right as possible and one on as much left as possible, both will get disabled. So basically it doesn’t only eliminate/reduce ram stacking but ram usage generally.

Overall the current state of the trick is: Absolutely broken.

Possible solutions:
1. Make it so seige that recently got hit by the trick cannot get hit by it again for say 2-3 minutes.
2. Reduce the area of effect of the trick by atleast 30%.
3. Add a projectile block/reflect to flame rams (as this is the area where the trick is most broken.) I think this one is the least reasonable thing to do but it is still a possible solution.

Thank you for reading!

Put an immunity on siege from disables. After it has been disabled once, it cannot be disabled again for ***2*** minutes. Number can be modified as needed

Personally, from the experience I have gathered since it came out, it is a disaster. It’s just ridiculous that it can be use to the point were you have no other alternative but to DPS a gate.

It wouldn’t be so bad if only the under dog could use them, but when the overwhelming guy can easily make it so that sieges are no longer being able to offset numbers anymore for the badly outnumbered this gimmick becomes truly ridiculous and ugly.

Step #1: Diminishing returns. Each time a siege weapon has been disabled they are given a 5 min buff. This buff reduces the duration of the next disable by 50%. A third by 75%. 4 or more and the target is immune.

Step #2: The range on disablers needs to be reduced to 900 units (if not 600 units).

Step #3: Siege Disablers need to have their AE reduced to 100units.

These things have single handedly destroyed any/all enjoyment I’ve had in WvW and I’m often playing at a time when I’m outnumbered and we need these things to defend. The offensive value of these things is too high

I heard there are a few kittens out there who love to chain-conquer empty towers in WvW instead of fighting for one.
Can you believe that?

Should try different tactics such as:

Speed build of ram if there are defenders, wait till they disable one ram then speed another ram. If they disable the second then speed build a third. About time they grab supply to disable the next ram they are doing few things:

1: wasting double supply to disable multiple rams
2: wasting their disablers
3: the first ram disabled will be ready soon while they are wasting supply and disablers for the next rams

If they used EotM as the testing ground for new features (as they said they would), this kind of easily spotted poor design wouldn’t be having as big an impact in WvW.

Siege disruptor is working great. No changes pls.
I hear Frostgorge train is even faster, join that.

it’s a new tactic….try a new technic to counter the affects, you’d be amazed how easy it is to do something different and get the desired results still.

briggah.7910:

Should try different tactics such as:

Speed build of ram if there are defenders, wait till they disable one ram then speed another ram. If they disable the second then speed build a third. About time they grab supply to disable the next ram they are doing few things:

1: wasting double supply to disable multiple rams
2: wasting their disablers
3: the first ram disabled will be ready soon while they are wasting supply and disablers for the next rams

In addition to the above, change placement of siege (rams not really included), change type of siege catas can be just as effective and can be placed further away). Also note siege disablers are considered projectiles…which means any skill that blocks projectiles can be used to counter the throw of these. Personally, I love them.

I’m sorry but a lot of what is said above regarding it being new and that we must adapt is pretty beside the point and frankly ridiculous. Of course we must not discard something aside just because it is not as we are used to! However, pretending nothing new is ever “bad” or at least more detrimental than good is fallacious. Beside, I DID say I tried a lot so I’m not “knee jerking” here nor lacking imagination I assure you.

What, for example, is the counter to 1 or 2 thief with 20 sec stealth and a stack of those new gimmick? I’m an ele and not even a zerg of 50 has ever been able to stop me from meteoring what I really wanted to (granted, I often died in these suicidal missions but I was able to deliver my payload)… Do you really see a siege disabler ever failing when used? Even more so when used with stealth? Come on, stop kidding yourself with your projectile blocking theories and different placements.

When you are in a position where retaking your own keep is now next to impossible because the already overwhelming force now has all the time in the world to make 3 laps around EB before you can bring a gate down you realize that this thing isn’t all rainbow and butterflies for the underdogs. It is great in defense, true. But down the line, this is something that, yet again, benefit the strongest party a lot more and it just made your underdog situation even more hopeless since all that can be defended is in enemies hands, which sux a max.

Wake up!

I use and come up against Disablers all the time. All that needs to happen to it is to introduce Diminishing returns.

If a large group attacks something and your zerg float is not on the way, then the tower will fall. Many times you use it once, and because a tower is upgrading their is no supply to use another one.

Sure it now puts a stop to smaller havoc groups that happen to come across something that is scouted. which is not all to often unless its T3.

The disablers are fine, add diminishing returns and they will be perfect.

For example, I have disabled and tried to defend a T1 keep with disablers and a Superior arrow cart on the door. They just attack the door, stack, heal, hit the door with weapons and it falls, even with the disabler.

Jwoww.4315:

I use and come up against Disablers all the time. All that needs to happen to it is to introduce Diminishing returns.

If a large group attacks something and your zerg float is not on the way, then the tower will fall. Many times you use it once, and because a tower is upgrading their is no supply to use another one.

Sure it now puts a stop to smaller havoc groups that happen to come across something that is scouted. which is not all to often unless its T3.

The disablers are fine, add diminishing returns and they will be perfect.

For example, I have disabled and tried to defend a T1 keep with disablers and a Superior arrow cart on the door. They just attack the door, stack, heal, hit the door with weapons and it falls, even with the disabler.

How long does it take to DPS a gate? Are we talking a 50 + zerg or a group of 5-10? DPSing a gate is “ok” in the first case but not at all in the later. Specially if the gate is reinforced.

The problem remains that it simply gave the stronger group even more power. Sieges were never a problem in the first place in the sense that you already had counter in the use of counter sieges. They in fact were one of the very few things that could offset numbers.

Now, if you are in a position where you are whipped of the map, retaking anything is an even harder proposition than it already ever was. 45 sec of delay per goodies is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Specially when you are with a handfull of people vs immense zergs. Time becomes incredibly important for anything to have any hope of success. When you are the strong party, you can take all the time in the world you want and you can carry a lot more supplies anyway.

It was not a good idea and the matches I saw so far rarely gave me any reason to see it as a good idea. At all.

I think its going pretty well. There is room for improvement, but I wouldn’t call it a disaster.

There are counters to the siege disabler. For starters, it counts as a projectile. Therefore it can be reflected or absorbed. Plus this also teaches siege throwers not to put all rams down at the same time, but rather stagger them out.

Even if they disable the first ram, you can now throw the second one and use that, and so on and so forth.

There are ways around the siege disabler, you just have to figure them out.

Crunk n monkey.3749:

I think its going pretty well. There is room for improvement, but I wouldn’t call it a disaster.

There are counters to the siege disabler. For starters, it counts as a projectile. Therefore it can be reflected or absorbed. Plus this also teaches siege throwers not to put all rams down at the same time, but rather stagger them out.

Even if they disable the first ram, you can now throw the second one and use that, and so on and so forth.

There are ways around the siege disabler, you just have to figure them out.

There are ways in theory but in practice it will almost never work. Blocking a projectile, for one, ask that you see it to even have any chance to block it. Stealth is going to make delivery a complete joke. But even without stealth it is very hard to miss your attempt. It’s more a case of you making a mistake then the enemy having much control over the issue.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Siege-Troll-Discussion

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’m sorry but a lot of what is said above regarding it being new and that we must adapt is pretty beside the point and frankly ridiculous. Of course we must not discard something aside just because it is not as we are used to! However, pretending nothing new is ever “bad” or at least more detrimental than good is fallacious. Beside, I DID say I tried a lot so I’m not “knee jerking” here nor lacking imagination I assure you.

What, for example, is the counter to 1 or 2 thief with 20 sec stealth and a stack of those new gimmick? I’m an ele and not even a zerg of 50 has ever been able to stop me from meteoring what I really wanted to (granted, I often died in these suicidal missions but I was able to deliver my payload)… Do you really see a siege disabler ever failing when used? Even more so when used with stealth? Come on, stop kidding yourself with your projectile blocking theories and different placements.

When you are in a position where retaking your own keep is now next to impossible because the already overwhelming force now has all the time in the world to make 3 laps around EB before you can bring a gate down you realize that this thing isn’t all rainbow and butterflies for the underdogs. It is great in defense, true. But down the line, this is something that, yet again, benefit the strongest party a lot more and it just made your underdog situation even more hopeless since all that can be defended is in enemies hands, which sux a max.

Wake up!

Not wanting to feed the troll but hontestly, if there are siege disablers for defenders facing an overwhelming large enemy group is totally irrelevant. Hey, it`s time to wake up. This is a game where coverage and numbers matter.
I had once a server more than an hour in front of a t3 keep dpsing it down and that way before they came up with wxp levels.
You cant become more dead than dead. Siege disablers got nothing to do with that.

And I dont really know what hands on experience you have but comparing an ele meteoring to a thief throwing a disabler is not quite the same. First of the meteor will actually destroy siege the disabler blocks it. Take catapults ; sure i can stealth and block them as a thief and then what? The group sits there waits for 45 seconds and carrys on if i have no reinforcements from my server. So the disabler does not stop you it simply give me time. If you are not a karma trainer it should not distrub you. Secondly, having hands on exerpience exactly in this “op situation” as a thief to throw a disabler I can assure you I got blocked/stomped/feared enough times for it not to work.
Is it my problem if your necro just standing by dwidling their thumps?

There was another thread about this before where people first started of by whining about not being able to use 5 rams on gates and getting in withouth problems and when that did not work switched to an argumentation like yours where poor defenders needed protection fromevil siege disablers. As far as I have seen very few people here that actually do defend have spoken against it.

If you are really interested then go and think how matches can be balanced more so we get out of this superior force in offtime ptting scenario.

I don’t know how you came to the conclusion I was “trolling”. Specially when I look at your answer. To keep it simple, the addition of the siege disabler made it even easier for the bigger player. Spin things however you like, it can’t be a good thing.

All your big detour about coverage and number, while trying to imply we just don’t know how to play, is a huge waste of time and space since it is completely irrelevant to the point being made. Beside, a thread was made to talk about “siege disabler” so let’s see you try to argue how they are more positive than negative in a game like WvW.

BTW, I’m mostly an ele roamer and it disturbs me because retaking objectives when you are very few has just been made harder. I’m extremely used to do a lot with very little. I’m far from some zerg diva who complain about not making as much loot and karma while facing no opposition whatsoever. Also, I don’t know if you do it on purpose but the point of using the meteor example wasn’t to imply it had the same effect as a disabler. It was to make you understand just how easy it is to use it. The disabler doesn’t ask you to stand motionless for 4 long seconds to use it and just one use will make the siege unusable. You have to cast a many meteor to get rid of any sieges above AC.

Finally, your reply about how useless it is to nullify a cata for 45 sec if you have no reinforcement lead me to believe you just didn’t read what I wrote. My problem, and my whole freaking argument, turn around the bigger party gaining an even greater edge and your “counter” is that it’s useless if there is no reinforcement. Since when lacking reinforcements is a problem for the big bad zergy side? Time is the problem for anybody but for the big zerg, number never is. It is only a matter of, will I make it in time… well you just bought them 45 more sec and nothing stop your thief, or another player, from repeating the process as long as you have sup.

TL:DR?: Your rebuttal is beside the point since it doesn’t address the core of my argumentation.

Crunk n monkey.3749:

I think its going pretty well. There is room for improvement, but I wouldn’t call it a disaster.

There are counters to the siege disabler. For starters, it counts as a projectile. Therefore it can be reflected or absorbed. Plus this also teaches siege throwers not to put all rams down at the same time, but rather stagger them out.

Even if they disable the first ram, you can now throw the second one and use that, and so on and so forth.

There are ways around the siege disabler, you just have to figure them out.

Hey! Look who haven’t read the full post and yet answers Seige disabler effect range is 450. 450 is larger than every single gate in the game (expect south hills one.) And when it comes to towers no matter how split your rams are they will both get disabled. Same goes for keeps and SM.

Acidcors.4296:

I heard there are a few kittens out there who love to chain-conquer empty towers in WvW instead of fighting for one.
Can you believe that?

It is the enemy fault that they left this tower empty and undeffended. Therefor they shall be punished by loosing it.

Jwoww.4315:

For example, I have disabled and tried to defend a T1 keep with disablers and a Superior arrow cart on the door. They just attack the door, stack, heal, hit the door with weapons and it falls, even with the disabler.

Your point is completely irrelevant to this thread. T1 doors are very weak and can be facerubbed in a minute or two. But when it comes to a Reinforced door Facerubbing takes atleast 50 people and it’s still slow as kitten. Besides, Anet should not in any point motivate players to facerub gates due to rams being absolutely useless.

“In addition to the above, change placement of siege (rams not really included), change type of siege catas can be just as effective and can be placed further away). Also note siege disablers are considered projectiles…which means any skill that blocks projectiles can be used to counter the throw of these. Personally, I love them. "

This topic is about rams. Nothing else is really affected that much by disablers other than rams. With catas you can rotate bubbles and your fine. With trebs if u build it in a distance long enough and u protect it it’s also fine. But when it comes to rams ? Extremely easy and no risk included to disable them.

Additional update: Once you throw a siege disabler, you cannot throw one again for 5 minutes.

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Darksundown.2973:

Additional update: Once you throw a siege disabler, you cannot throw one again for 5 minutes.

doesnt fix the issue that more people = more supply = more disablers

sirflamesword.3896:

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Well in my book anything that gives a bigger advantage to the already advantaged can’t be good. Not in this game where many supposedly want more challenges and fair fights.

I know that a lot of you hate structures and sieges but you might just want to play another game that isn’t of the conquest type.

PvD is bad but don’t blame people taking what you let them take. If they take what they get because no one is around then no amount of siege disabler will matter since you need at least 1 person to use it.

My suggestion for Siege Disabler:

Initial 10 seconds of disabled effect on siege.
Followed by 20 seconds of -of triple recharge on skills.
Followed by 30 seconds of double recharge on skills.

If a player wants to spam Siege Disabers they can, but rather than completely locking an attacking force out for 45 seconds, they will instead slow them down (which was the desired effect).

sirflamesword.3896:

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Ya, except, ya know, they’ll just come back with catapults and PvWall which is longer and more boring.

Boring = bad, 100% of the time.

Substance E.4852:

sirflamesword.3896:

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Ya, except, ya know, they’ll just come back with catapults and PvWall which is longer and more boring.

Boring = bad, 100% of the time.

You do know you can disable those also? And build counter siege, it’s clearly a learn 2 play issue.

sirflamesword.3896:

Substance E.4852:

sirflamesword.3896:

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Ya, except, ya know, they’ll just come back with catapults and PvWall which is longer and more boring.

Boring = bad, 100% of the time.

You do know you can disable those also? And build counter siege, it’s clearly a learn 2 play issue.

Yes you can disable them but they have a counter against seige disabler. Rams on the other hand don’t. Throw it behind the gate and it’s done. Projectile blockers do not work if thrown behind the gate = huge results and no risk whatsoever.

So brainless rams on gate got a counter and you are not happy? I agree that its a l2p issue. I have not seen it affect havoc in any way. Yes ppl will counter you if scouted. That works fine. Any well sieged tower/keep will have a treb behind gate, so rams are useless anyway. Learn to split up and prep your targets. Is it boring sitting with a blob at a gate with 5 rams being xed? Sure. Dont be in that brainless blob.

Managed to save our keeps using these a few times, usually against golem rushes. I’m 100% in support of them. We actually have a chance to defend stuff now.

I just wish ANET had someone who was actually thinking about these types of new tricks and the impact prior to implementing them.

I think the disablers are great just the way they are. The complaints about them are really just different ways of saying most people can’t adjust to a different way of attacking.

I think what ANet was trying to achieve is to delay captures and giving the defensive side a chance to call for support, chaining them defeats the original purpose.

I think siege disabler is going to the right direction for ANet. Changes can include the disable buff for 45 seconds, rotates into a special buff for 15 seconds you can’t use disable until buff runs out.

1. Diminishing returns
2. Smaller AoE
3. Less range
4. Evadable by golems

Fix it. After being hit by 9 disablers in a row while using one Omega, this is just stupid. I couldn’t even evade it? What?

Basch.1347:

1. Diminishing returns
2. Smaller AoE
3. Less range
4. Evadable by golems

Fix it. After being hit by 9 disablers in a row while using one Omega, this is just stupid. I couldn’t even evade it? What?

It’s a projectile, anyone with bubble or walls can reflect it, but yes you are correct. A shorter range would be good.

But I also believe that Golems have a lower debuff than other siege. And the fact that you are a mobile siege. Evadable would make everyone invest in Golems than other siege pieces.

The only thing I dislike about them is that they generally favour the side with the greater numbers.

It is fine, nothing to see here.