Guild Wars 2

Dayra.7405:

But higher tiers aren’t related to better opponents/fights, higher tiers only mean: more (quite often worser) opponents all around the time.

You are flat out wrong.

Coverage puts servers in higher tiers, true. But all those bodies mean more fights, and more fights means more opportunities for good fights. You might have more chaff to sift through but you also get more wheat. Especially if we are talking GvGs.

Mag has seen a lot more action this weekend from SoR and even (terrible as they are) FA than we saw all last week from SBI and BP. It’s not really SBI’s or BP’s fault, they only have so much population, and by extension – only so many good players.

Outside of GvG, I’ll take busy maps with periodic good fights over casting around for something to do while we wait for an outnumbered and demoralized foe to reclaim enough territory to make it worth moving out again. This also usually leads to a lot of PvD and lopsided fights, depending on who has coverage when. AKA Boring.

If you want to be able to pop into WvW at any time of day and find significant action Tier 1 and 2 are where it’s at. And significant action leads to good fights happening.

Basharic.1654:

Mag has seen a lot more action this weekend from SoR and even (terrible as they are) FA than we saw all last week from SBI and BP. It’s not really SBI’s or BP’s fault, they only have so much population, and by extension – only so many good players.

Funny you say that as I was about to post that I noticed the difference this week fighting JQ/BG players over FA and SoS from last week. I don’t mean this to say FA or SoS players are bad or anything, but I (and others) have definitely noticed the high caliber of roamers from the tier 1 servers.

This business about high-population servers all having bad players who only win through numbers is IME a myth.

eh, if I play for PPT it’s if we’re losing actually, mainly because I don’t like our stuff getting taken by grubby enemy paws and I like the defense game. But WvW isn’t catered for defensive play anymore so I grab fights when I can and spend a lot of time paying attention to where white swords are so I can find those fights. In the lower tiers you sometimes have to create incentives for people to come fight you later on in the week or off hours, so grabbing camps is just a means to an end a lot of the time.

Eotm is simply more fun. Why play when you know you are going to lose? Lol. Basic premise of warfare. don’t enter battle unless you are convinced you will win. read sun tsu!

I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu wrote “The Art of War”, not “The Art of Running Away and Hiding”.

I think the philosopher you’re looking for is this guy. :P

Qaelyn.7612:

I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu wrote “The Art of War”, not “The Art of Running Away and Hiding”.

I think the philosopher you’re looking for is this guy. :P

Yes, and if you read it, you would understand not entering a battle you can’t win. lol

Sanduskel.1850:

Eotm is simply more fun. Why play when you know you are going to lose? Lol. Basic premise of warfare. don’t enter battle unless you are convinced you will win. read sun tsu!

I agree.

Reasons WvW is less fun than even pvE areas:

Cast times – what the heck for? If I am faster than the other guy why not win the skill instead of having to wait for a fake wind-up?

Skills that don’t work even when you do press them.

Skills lag – and no it hasn’t gone away especially in WvW.

Not being able to talk to the other “side” without them cheating their way into your “group” and in essence you have just allowed a spy into your maps.

Making sure that every character can be facemelted by three – Warriors, Guardians and Thieves.

Not having enough points per character to make a difference when in a “zerg” – should be hard to kill a person, not a facemelt, refer to the comment above.

Not being able to get enough “damage” on a Lord or Tower to get badges – and that’s a LOT of lost badges. Even my conditions don’t seem to matter – and they SHOULD.

Points – one should have many, far more, gazillions more points as a person in WvW not less powerful than in PvE and it does seem that way.

Qaelyn.7612:

Basharic.1654:

Mag has seen a lot more action this weekend from SoR and even (terrible as they are) FA than we saw all last week from SBI and BP. It’s not really SBI’s or BP’s fault, they only have so much population, and by extension – only so many good players.

Funny you say that as I was about to post that I noticed the difference this week fighting JQ/BG players over FA and SoS from last week. I don’t mean this to say FA or SoS players are bad or anything, but I (and others) have definitely noticed the high caliber of roamers from the tier 1 servers.

This business about high-population servers all having bad players who only win through numbers is IME a myth.

Try using the correct characterization when talking about FA.

There are some really good players but we have some very stubborn and disconnected “leadership” in most guilds – that and the fact that our server is FAR more interested in PvE than they are in WvW until the season starts.

That’s the disconnect – they don’t get how skills can rust and cohesion not be there when it’s really needed “during” the season when you “practiced” all OFF season.

We have serious issues with personalities and “allowing” more than one commander per map – it’s an ongoing problem and it’s not getting any “better” with time.

I don’t wonder why several larger guilds left FA after we finally won the first season, they saw the writing on the wall and got tired of the infighting.

PPT matters to everyone because it impacts everyone. You can’t ignore PPT, and just play for fights because the PPT impacts the surrounding situation, and that situation impacts your ability to play for fights.

Are you going to be able to just find fights when you’ve lost most of the map? Not really. Do you get better fights randomly in open field or near structures?

Structures actually have some importance and act as a drawing point for conflict. The conflict leads to fights. If structures are ignored, conflicts don’t occur. If PPT is out of whack, then things derail from a coverage perspective and structures remain idle or futile.

Eventually, ignoring PPT leads you to situations you don’t want to be in. PPT matters to all. What people should be asking for is a change to the scoring system. People mostly just look for fights in EotM. The reason for this is that nobody cares about PPT in eotm. It doesn’t have much importance or reward tied to it, so people do more of what they want to do. It’s tough for things to go so bad in 4 hours that fights disappear. The same cannot be said of regular WvWvW.

Well playing for fights doesnt mean youre willing to lose everything, T3 towers are prizes, and we defend them. But if i see a t0 tower getting taken, i really couldnt care less about it unless im close by, rushing to the closes orange swords, looking for enemies, fighting in front of enemy keep, or leaving SM open as farm bait =D Playing on the defensive also gets fights but im not going to look up on the tick timer and time my ticks on buffs

Knackers.8562:

Well playing for fights doesnt mean youre willing to lose everything, T3 towers are prizes, and we defend them. But if i see a t0 tower getting taken, i really couldnt care less about it unless im close by, rushing to the closes orange swords, looking for enemies, fighting in front of enemy keep, or leaving SM open as farm bait =D Playing on the defensive also gets fights but im not going to look up on the tick timer and time my ticks on buffs

But…sacrificing paper towers for higher objectives IS PPT thinking.

If you actually went and got a havoc crew and sat in there to kitten the people trying to flip it off…and perhaps even farm them…That’s just looking for a fight.

Qaelyn.7612:

I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu wrote “The Art of War”, not “The Art of Running Away and Hiding”.

I think the philosopher you’re looking for is this guy. :P

I don’t think you’ve read Sun Tzu.

“If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him. " – Sun Tzu

And the very next line: “Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.”

This is a game, and death isn’t permanent. There is plenty to be accomplished by an obstinate fight even against superior numbers. That’s what a server with pride and heart works towards, not just giving up because they can’t win easily. Just as there is plenty to be accomplished by an athlete at the Olympics with a world ranking of 20 or something, who knows he has maybe a 1% chance to score a medal.

I’d rather die over and over on an enemy borderland harrassing their keeps and flipping their camps and wasting their yaks, than sit out the fight because “we can’t win”.

I don’t give 2 kittens about PPT, I WvW for the massive fights. Whether my server wins or loses is irrelevant as long as I am being entertained.

Qaelyn.7612:

This business about high-population servers all having bad players who only win through numbers is IME a myth.

The high (WvW) population servers draw both good and bad players, and they have plenty of both.

The good ones come because they like their effort to produce results (wins), and the bad ones come because they like to win regardless whether they suck or not, and that’s a whole lot easier when you can just blob the hell out of the other side 24×7.

And the great roamers flock to these same servers because . . . moar targets.

Qaelyn.7612:

And the very next line: “Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.”

This is a game, and death isn’t permanent. There is plenty to be accomplished by an obstinate fight even against superior numbers. That’s what a server with pride and heart works towards, not just giving up because they can’t win easily. Just as there is plenty to be accomplished by an athlete at the Olympics with a world ranking of 20 or something, who knows he has maybe a 1% chance to score a medal.

I’d rather die over and over on an enemy borderland harrassing their keeps and flipping their camps and wasting their yaks, than sit out the fight because “we can’t win”.

Ok. Well losing isnt fun for everyone. I’d rather just go roll groups in Eotm. You can take Wvw, lol. Live and let live. This game is about choices.

I play for ppt which is y I don’t play wvw anymore. I never cared about the fights.

@OP, you might enjoy sitting inside towers because you aren’t good at combat, doing nothing more than watching moa’s and drakes and griffins walk around eating grass, but not everyone else thinks this is fun.

Frankly if I’m going to sit down and play the game, I’m going to actually do something, not stare at the screen and eat burgers for hours on end.

I don’t mind PPTing so that the enemy comes to defend or recap, that’s the best way to draw them out of hiding.

The only role of physical objectives is to bring fights. ppt is incidental but meaningless.

OMG NOT THIS AGAIN. EVERY TIME A TREAD LIKE THIS IS MADE A BABY QUAGGAN GETS EATEN BY THE KRAIT. THINK OF THE BABY QUAGGANS! WHY WON’T ANYONE THINK ABOUT THE BABY QUAGGANS.

COO…..#BRINGQUAGGANSBACKTOWVW

Quaggans are annoying and only marginally useful as backpacks on Charrs.

Carry on.

I am beyond amazed (outside of JQ/BG) that anyone still cares about PPT…

PPT is what ruins this game, it is what turns decent groups into karma-training zombies. PPT is what created the 50-man zergs. It is what fluctuates populations week-in-week-out, it is what caused every nubcake around to stack into 2-3 servers chasing a ‘win’.

I care about PPT due to several reasons…one being that if you keep hold of a ton of things, enemies come to YOU. This is one of the reasons why smart people seem to care about PPT. PPT LEADS to fights people, keep your keeps and towers defended, and the enemies will come to you.

Really just sounds like a cool excuse to zerg bro…If you hold absolutely nothing enemies will spawn camp you, thus having easier access to them…Doing that makes about as much sense as what you stated, in terms of getting fights…

Fights can be found fairly easily, granted it sucks when they hug a tower/keep, but finding fights and finding fights (w/siege) are totally different things in my book.

Waage.2047:

The people who say they don’t care about PPT with a straight face are only making excuses for why they are losing.

I play in a guild that doesn’t particularly care much for ppt. They organise a lot of GvG and recently even organised a scrimmage in eotm with guilds from a different server the day after reset. And I have to say it’s been some of the most exhilarating experiences I’ve had in game.

The fact that I come from the server that’s currently beating you really throws your ideas into the air. My guess is you were thinking of the majority of other servers you would face off against when you made your comments.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I care about PPT due to several reasons…one being that if you keep hold of a ton of things, enemies come to YOU. This is one of the reasons why smart people seem to care about PPT. PPT LEADS to fights people, keep your keeps and towers defended, and the enemies will come to you.

But the ultimate reason is to get fights so technically you are playing for fights. I rarely ever “that was an amazing tick, this is so fun” . It’s always something like “what an amazing 3 way fight in SM. Wish all fights were this good.”