Guild Wars 2

Linking is a great idea but it is being poorly executed. Anet needs to decide if they really want to fix balance or just make money to the point wvw dies because of greed.

The beta linking start should never have had the top servers being linked especially BG. What was the point of linking the top server only to make it pennies to stack the server linked to BG.

Enough time has already passed in this beta to see unlinking the top server or servers needs to happen now to help the bottom servers. Anet has the inside numbers and scoring to see what is going on and does not need 3 months to act for beta server linking. This is beta and we get that!

Example: Unlink Eredon from BG and Kaineng from TC. Add to to bottom ranked servers.
Blackgate plays alone
Tarnished Coast plays alone
N Shiverpeaks, Sorrow’s Furn add Kaineng
Darkhaven, Ferguson’s add Eredon

Based on the current evolution you could even unlink the top 3 as to help the lowest 3 ranked in the current beta and help the evolution rating increase to complete and create more variety in matchups.

Even go a step further and if it means the top 6 servers don’t get linked and the bottom 6 are linked to create rating evolution balance for match ups, then so be it. Anet has to numbers to know how far they can go to help the low pop servers.

Server linking also needs to be updated at least once a month to help get the balance and evolution rating working sooner rather than later and this will only add to more variety in BALANCED match ups which most everyone wants.

Anet needs to consider locking server transfers once and for all for the good of the game. Otherwise what is the point of linking and using linking to help balance the game.

The current system only encourages guilds to game the system and stack the top servers or server of the month they choose if they want. We also have servers gaming to keep evolution rating down so they won’t move up or down by telling people not to play said week or they are having a push week so all play now.

Does Anet really want wvw as a whole to thrive or is it all about money with transfers and stacking? Sure you will have a few complain… “but I want to play with my friends”. That time has come and gone with how long the game has been out now.

What is sad is Anet originally was not going to allow transfers when game came out and then said they would open it up temporary to friends and family for a couple weeks to a month and then lock. They should have stuck with that plan and only opened up the low ranked servers to really help with balance as the game moved along and developed from the beginning. The evolution ratings gap and variety matchups would have never gotten so out of control had Anet stayed with the plan. We all know how tournaments added to the problem with open transfers.

Linking can work but Anet needs to make a choice of what is really good for the health and future of wvw and it will not make the guilds happy that like to stack servers and game the system.

And new players to the game should be steered to the bottom 3 servers whoever they are as evolution and ratings progress each week.

PsycNitro.7802:

Linking is a great idea but it is being poorly executed. Anet needs to decide if they really want to fix balance or just make money to the point wvw dies because of greed.

The beta linking start should never have had the top servers being linked especially BG. What was the point of linking the top server only to make it pennies to stack the server linked to BG.

Enough time has already passed in this beta to see unlinking the top server or servers needs to happen now to help the bottom servers. Anet has the inside numbers and scoring to see what is going on and does not need 3 months to act for beta server linking. This is beta and we get that!

100% agree with all of this. I don’t think servers should be locked however but they need to find solutions to population disparities whilst still allowing players to move if they desire. I still think some sort of overall 3 faction system with dynamic map opening and closing based on population and based on alliances between current servers is where they should be going.

^ why not unlink all T1 servers?

Infusion.7149:

^ why not unlink all T1 servers?

Yeah and why not T2, T3 and T4 as well. We’d have only a T5 and T6 with World Linking system.

Then every week one of the winners of T5 at random gets a chance to try out their luck by themselves in the big leagues (where there’s no other server to help) . Similarly one of the winners of T6 gets a chance to jump to T5 and you get the idea. I believe something like this would restore some server pride and keep alive the hopes of a server community to one day be able to give it a shot on their own. Besides it could add variety to matches; not locking a pair of servers indefinitely.

Things were bad population-wise pre World Linking, but I’d agree it was not necessary to add population to many of the already populated servers.

yea, they should unlink t1 so people cant move there via guest server
t1 should be locked by themselves and give other servers chance to grow

IT’S BETA.

Also if anyone was watching BG wasn’t exactly dominating matches before all this happened. Anet did not know how many would return because of links and the april patch. There was also a lot of movement of players between those top servers prior to all this. But that’s BG for you, they come out of hibernation and turn the system up on it’s head, and become the one server that upsets the balance up top.

Beta linking starts and anet did the minimum needed to get it up and running, they folded servers over in order, it certainly was not going to work 100% perfect coming out the gates.

If you all decide to keep the system they will work on tweaking it. Or the majority vote fails and we go back to the miserable 24 server system we had before and wait for merges down the line.

As for tweaks. They need to unlink T8 from T1 and put T8 back to itself (because I doubt they would happy linked with even T4 at this point), then open up a limited time free to and from those servers then lock it, roamers go there to live, zergers move up into more populated servers for their fun.

SkyShroud.2865:

yea, they should unlink t1 so people cant move there via guest server
t1 should be locked by themselves and give other servers chance to grow

Organic growth is limited at best without an influx of new players. T8 won’t just suddenly get an influx of people transferring after being unlinked o.o

zhonnika.1784:

SkyShroud.2865:

yea, they should unlink t1 so people cant move there via guest server
t1 should be locked by themselves and give other servers chance to grow

Organic growth is limited at best without an influx of new players. T8 won’t just suddenly get an influx of people transferring after being unlinked o.o

what to do? the ideal situation is to literally merge all the servers to only 4 tiers and with less servers, the new population will have lesser servers to choose from and growth rate per server will be improved. of course, the highest populated servers should be locked till those lower populated servers situation improves or when the gap reduced.

but it will never happen. people keep going on about the stupid server pride and what anti blob nonsense (even when the maps are not all queued) instead of the overall well being of the game. right now is no different from pre-link. we are just going back to square one at this rate.

BG is the only server that should be not linked.. TC and Yaks both have no where near the WvW population BG does. If you stripped TC and Yaks from their paired servers, both would drop to lower tiers.

Yaks has a very small AR WvW contribution and can only gather players from Yaks when certain commanders are on.

TC has quite a large Kain contribution and would drop right down without being paired.

By making T1 unpaired you would still have the same problem with BG and all it would do is confuse and anger people. (unless you were on BG which means every week you would have new servers to play against)

Aren’t people on BG getting bored? (and those that transfered to ET) Long WvW ques? Boring matches because of the huge population difference?

I find myself shocked at just how many believe they are an authority on what WvW is or is supposed to be. I’ve seen WvW evolve over time and people form a refined taste for what they enjoy and what they don’t.

The tiers formed how they did naturally due to player choice. Some liked bigger blobs for epic feel and congregated together in the upper tiers. Fight guilds went to T2, people who wanted a balance of small and large went mid, and those who wanted medium to small went to lower.

Now choosing your own preference is gone. It’s map queue blob, big blob, or blobs on this map and empty on the others.
Also recall before you tell me that I still have a choice that my only open options are guest servers that could rotate me right back at any time forcing me to constantly pay a transfer tax everytime to readjust.
The idea that people in some tiers were miserable or misinformed is rediculous.

“Tyranny of the majority” IS a real and very dangerous thing. Never forget that.

What’s next? We tell Battlefield players that 64v64 should be the ONLY option and 32v32 is wrong and they are all ruining the 64v64 people’s fun by playing it?

Really?….

Two inherent problems with linking is that one, Quarterly is far too long. The other, and this is a huge one in my opinion, is that the Dev’s are going to create “Flavor of the Quarter Worlds”. For example, I look at how they gave BG the higher population pairing. Meanwhile, their own World Population Algorithm labeled JQ at only “High” compared to BG’s “Very High”. So to me that say’s Anet is not up to the task of managing populations at all. It’s like 1+2=4 in Anet math.

Whatever “meaning” we had for our Worlds, this linking and soon to be re-linking has reduced it. If some of our communities can no longer be, then it’s time for Alliances or a MegaServer.

Xenesis.6389:

IT’S BETA.

That excuse got old after the first week. A Beta for a day or a weekend is one thing but, an entire 3 months???? That’s not a “Beta” any longer.

Just another flaw, when you party/squad up with peeps from the other server, you won’t see a dot on the minimap.

The thing some people still don’t seem to realize is that BG pugs are pretty good. They are better than average and when WvW gets boring, they hibernate. When things get interesting, the beast is woken up and BG will just smash everyone. Its been this way for over a year now. JQ was the same way when the game launched and for 2 years, they were unstoppable but around the time SoR fell, BG really started gaining ground over JQ and now there is just no contest between the two.

The reason I mention that is because it should have been obvious to Anet. YB was stacked at one point with all the WvW guilds and they pushed it to T1 like EU did to help create a rotating T1. Then they all left for TC. JQ guilds went to DB to fight them and help gain more interesting fights. YB started crashing and wasn’t even fighting anymore so it was basically the same 4 guilds on JQ and BG fighting while YB would just spam airship and chilling fog in their keeps/SMC. This led to further people leaving JQ and a few from BG in hopes for better fights and action.

Now we get to present day. All the servers mentioned above are locked however most of their linked servers are not. Nobody in their right mind should want to move to somewhere like TC or BG’s linked servers because it means you’ll be stuck in a two hour queue. Then you get servers like YB and JQ who are stuck fighting against larger guild groups because people left them high and dry. The only way to keep up is to constantly transfer which costs quite a bit of gold to do regularly and those who like to just come on for a few hours a night can’t afford that. In addition to possibly moving to a server like IoJ to play with JQ, who is to say they aren’t linked later and now JQ is un-linked because of their previous size? Now all the people who moved to IoJ to help JQ or to have better action/fights have to move again.

IMO, the linking is a good solution overall to help population issues however, I don’t think kitten NA need it. It leads to long queues and poor fights. Even after all this typing, I still didn’t get to some of the silly upgrades and things that don’t have counters like watch towers.

If all this is too negative of a post for Anet, I’d like to say that I’m happy that they are working on WvW and are trying to fix the issues at hand. It means a lot more than just being silent for a few years.

As for trying to even out servers with free transfers, I remember from my WoW days that Blizz would only allow transfers from certain overpopulated servers to certain underpopulated servers…they didn’t give carte blanche, which would have undermined their goal for balancing. Maybe they should try a few select transfer options to see how that pans out, locking all other possible transfers for now.

DeWolfe.2174:

Xenesis.6389:

IT’S BETA.

That excuse got old after the first week. A Beta for a day or a weekend is one thing but, an entire 3 months???? That’s not a “Beta” any longer.

I don’t believe that I have ever seen any beta run for just one day, or a weekend. They normally run for several weeks, if not longer.

and they are betas not “live” betas…..

Liston.9708:

and they are betas not “live” betas…..

I have a feeling that DeWolfe has never been involved in open beta testing for any game, before. If he/she had, they would know what a ridiculous statement ‘should just be for a day, or a weekend’ actually is.

Teon.5168:

Liston.9708:

and they are betas not “live” betas…..

I have a feeling that DeWolfe has never been involved in open beta testing for any game, before. If he/she had, they would know what a ridiculous statement ‘should just be for a day, or a weekend’ actually is.

except the changes aren’t introduced to a live game.. most used public test servers and leave the game alone. 1 day is silly, but so is 3 months when flaws were found on day 2…..

Liston.9708:

Teon.5168:

Liston.9708:

and they are betas not “live” betas…..

I have a feeling that DeWolfe has never been involved in open beta testing for any game, before. If he/she had, they would know what a ridiculous statement ‘should just be for a day, or a weekend’ actually is.

except the changes aren’t introduced to a live game.. most used public test servers and leave the game alone. 1 day is silly, but so is 3 months when flaws were found on day 2…..

Agreed that 3 months is just as silly on a live game. Now, I could see maybe, 3-6 weeks. And 3 months just sounded like the initial rotation of the server linking schedule and border lands…..so, it sounded to me like the beta is going to last longer than 3 months. Hopefully not.

We don’t know how difficult the linking process is nor do we know what analytics they are tracking. It could take several more weeks to gather the information they need or for them to free up however much time it takes to put servers together.

I am certainly for relinking more frequently but without knowing the goals of the ANet devs in this Beta cycle blanket statements on when or how they should link are based around ignorance (not meaning that in a derogatory way).

Blackarps.1974:

Now we get to present day. All the servers mentioned above are locked however most of their linked servers are not. Nobody in their right mind should want to move to somewhere like TC or BG’s linked servers because it means you’ll be stuck in a two hour queue.

Yet ET has received a lot of transfers.

Straegen.2938:

We don’t know how difficult the linking process is nor do we know what analytics they are tracking.

From what Tyler has said, mainly on reddit, the 3 months is purely to allow glicko for the linked worlds to settle. My argument would be is it really necessary to do that? Glicko is not measured for the low ranked world so linkages can’t be defined by glicko. And in terms of keeping the mode fresh it might be better to have more volatile glicko to keep more variety in matchups.

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

We don’t know how difficult the linking process is nor do we know what analytics they are tracking.

From what Tyler has said, mainly on reddit, the 3 months is purely to allow glicko for the linked worlds to settle. My argument would be is it really necessary to do that? Glicko is not measured for the low ranked world so linkages can’t be defined by glicko. And in terms of keeping the mode fresh it might be better to have more volatile glicko to keep more variety in matchups.

I don’t think Glicko should be allowed to settle. Already statements were made here about people leaving T4 because that tier appears to be locked and getting stale.

Chaba.5410:

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

We don’t know how difficult the linking process is nor do we know what analytics they are tracking.

From what Tyler has said, mainly on reddit, the 3 months is purely to allow glicko for the linked worlds to settle. My argument would be is it really necessary to do that? Glicko is not measured for the low ranked world so linkages can’t be defined by glicko. And in terms of keeping the mode fresh it might be better to have more volatile glicko to keep more variety in matchups.

I don’t think Glicko should be allowed to settle. Already statements were made here about people leaving T4 because that tier appears to be locked and getting stale.

Wow, didn’t notice that before…there’s about a 200 point cliff separating T4 from T3, where the rest of the pack has less than 100 point cliffs to bump them into the next tier.

Sylvyn.4750:

Chaba.5410:

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

We don’t know how difficult the linking process is nor do we know what analytics they are tracking.

From what Tyler has said, mainly on reddit, the 3 months is purely to allow glicko for the linked worlds to settle. My argument would be is it really necessary to do that? Glicko is not measured for the low ranked world so linkages can’t be defined by glicko. And in terms of keeping the mode fresh it might be better to have more volatile glicko to keep more variety in matchups.

I don’t think Glicko should be allowed to settle. Already statements were made here about people leaving T4 because that tier appears to be locked and getting stale.

Wow, didn’t notice that before…there’s about a 200 point cliff separating T4 from T3, where the rest of the pack has less than 100 point cliffs to bump them into the next tier.

This is exactly why allowing glicko to settle is a mistake.

considering the first linking was
so rudimentary 1/24 2/23 etc..
didn’t allow the pop to settle after the movement just prior to / after the patch
clear stacking of full worlds by transferring on the cheap to guest

why leave the link as is? doesn’t take 3 months to know it is crap right now. Not saying linking couldn’t be decent, it just isn’t right now.

DeWolfe.2174:

Xenesis.6389:

IT’S BETA.

That excuse got old after the first week. A Beta for a day or a weekend is one thing but, an entire 3 months???? That’s not a “Beta” any longer.

Don’t be ridiculous. To gather any proper information for the system as big as this it requires weeks or months, not a day or a weekend. Do you honestly expect them to look at the numbers for an hour and come up with the perfect solution to matching servers for perfect coverage? 3 months might be a bit long, but not surprising it’s tied to the quarterly updates. 6 weeks might be better as that’s also the expected time for glicko to settle in each time from the link effects, which would then be a good time to shake up the links according to the data they gathered over the prior weeks.

Plus there was a lot of movement once again by players in those top servers, that changes population and coverage numbers again, which a day or a weekend would not properly pick up on.

Did anyone honestly expect BG to wake up all of a sudden? they only did that for tournaments, and we haven’t had one in years with a lot of movement of players in the top tier during that time, they sure as hell didn’t show up when YB finally broke T1 which had the same matchup for over a year.

Linking is in it’s starting stages, it’s not in it’s final development stage, they are asking if this is what you want for population changes. If you don’t they will take it off and look for other solutions down the line. People need read the developer comments and properly understand what’s going on here.

Well said! I hope anet takes a look at this.

Xenesis.6389:

Linking is in it’s starting stages, it’s not in it’s final development stage, they are asking if this is what you want for population changes. If you don’t they will take it off and look for other solutions down the line. People need read the developer comments and properly understand what’s going on here.

Would have thought the beta was to test the technical aspects and player behaviour. On both counts they have enough data to make conclusions now rather than wait another 2 months. They will lose players again, its already happening now. As for it being in its initial stages they are now working on scoring when will they get back to developing the linking tech further when they now consider its working? 6 months, 12 months?

Poll is just a very good excuse to implement changes that will harm the Long Term health & viability of WvW…imho.

The players that think this is a good thing will find out later.

The timing of implementing World Linking & Alpine Borderland Maps was done to create the illusion that World Linking is good…imho.

More players returned because of the Alpine Maps…not because of World Linking.

Good luck to the players that don’t realize this.

Sorry for sounding bitter, but that’s just how it feels to me.

Once again…I’ll need to find that inner peace to let go and find other things to do.

So viewed in that way…it’s a good thing to happen.

It’s getting easier after each round of disappointment.

Hope the players that Voted Yes…don’t regret what they voted for.

Peace,
Diku

Diku is spot on as usual. I only came back to roam in alpine bl. But now once again I’m seeing the player drop off. The world linking didn’t do anything but blob everyone up. Look at these matches right now. Nearly every match is over by Saturday night. Then it’s just blobbers tower taking and if you run into another zerg it’s an aoe party and dancing back and forth. Like Ajax Blue said “no skill”.

Roaming stinks too, lots of skinny jean wearing thiefs and sephora wearing memsers. Yawn mode, got better there for a bit but I think it was more excitement for the old bls coming back.

Anet seems to have a tendency to do the ole snake oil salesman method.

“Take these pills, you’ll feel better” But anet never resolves the underlying issues, just smoke and mirrors once again.

I’m slow to blame ANet on this one. This is all on the players. We screamed and whined for mergers and ANet came up with a way to let us test them temporarily. Granted it will never truly be back to normal since some couldn’t wait 3 months before stacking on some servers just to play with a host server. When we all knew the volatile nature of the situation.

We can’t throw ANet under the bus for listening to all the folks demanding that all us low tier folks stop hanging out in our empty dead servers and go get gentrified already.

We decide if we want this or not…..at least ANet gave us a vote with a 75% required majority. Do I like it? No, but we have only ourselves to blame. So there better not be one kitten peep out of anybody the first time this system screws you over. Take it and swallow it because remember….we asked for it.

You make some very good points, Roadbull.