Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

Anet is on a two week Living Story schedule. Here is the easiest way to create content:

• Take what’s already being developed (EoTM).
• Dump some Scarlet into it.
• Make up some Achievements.
• Call it a Living Story chapter.

This is not about introducing PvE players to WvW. It’s about “creating” content in the quickest, easiest way possible. Whether this is good or bad for WvW probably didn’t even enter Anet’s minds.

Since they have repeatedly said that it takes 4 months to make each living story update, and EoTM was announced within the past 4 months, it would be safe to assume that EoTM was designed to be a living story update the whole time.

mrstealth.6701:

lordkrall.7241:

3: It gets more people into WvW and might end up with increased participation overall.

People that don’t want to do wvw/pvp aren’t going to get into it just because they sprinkle in a little pve content. No matter how much pve you cram into it, there are still people there want want to, and will, kill them. If they don’t want to fight other players, they aren’t going to enter wvw unless you put a pile of free precursors in the middle of the map.

I do hope that this means the end of living story on the other 4 wvw maps, because that does remove the negative side to pve/LS content in wvw. But it is still pointless and will bring very few new players into wvw, and just works to keep wvw players away from the new map because they don’t want to deal with LS content. If anything, there will simply be less people bothering to do the living story content because of where it is.

And I just had a friend tell me this as I was typing it. She won’t be doing any of the next living story content that takes place in wvw, because she has no interest in wvw. So there is one player will still be avoiding wvw, and is now avoiding LS content as well.

Hmm, seems some people really have short memories. Don’t you remember the flood of PvE people into WvW in the beginning of the season? PvE people will go anywhere to get their achievements.

CEDWYN.5392:

ITT: People who still think Anet actually cares about what players want.

Not like there is a history of some company consistently ignoring player requests and releasing content in PVP that no one asked for. OOOOOOHHHH… WAIT.

Well, first I need to ask you a question…. What do players want? Seems all we want to do is complain about anything Anet creates.

We wanted WvW or we wouldn’t have bought the game. Now, everyone has a different spin on how WvW should be changed, based on their own experience (and normally most people on these forums just want it changed so they can win easier, at other peoples expense. They call it balance, but only balance for them).

So, in all fairness to Anet, we must admit that the player base cannot come to a consensus on what they want.

Andrew Clear.1750:

CEDWYN.5392:

ITT: People who still think Anet actually cares about what players want.

Not like there is a history of some company consistently ignoring player requests and releasing content in PVP that no one asked for. OOOOOOHHHH… WAIT.

Well, first I need to ask you a question…. What do players want? Seems all we want to do is complain about anything Anet creates.

We wanted WvW or we wouldn’t have bought the game. Now, everyone has a different spin on how WvW should be changed, based on their own experience (and normally most people on these forums just want it changed so they can win easier, at other peoples expense. They call it balance, but only balance for them).

So, in all fairness to Anet, we must admit that the player base cannot come to a consensus on what they want.

Game design shouldn’t be about givin what people what they want. It should be about providing a quality product.

The game had 5 years in development and is now launched for 1.5 years but in a system where servers play against each other the game rewards you for leaving your losing server and joining the winning one. kitten on player feedback, half of it is tier 1 problems that resulted from overstacking anyway (queues! skill lag! elistism against PvE players ‘cause we’ve stacked the maps full of WvW bandwagoners! maps empty save for super zergs!).

Does anyone else feel like if we don’t separate Andrew and Krall that the universe might implode???

I agree people can be kitten ANET, but that is only because they still half-kitten care about this game….Once the complaining stops, you will see REAL kittenG PROBLEMS with the life of this game.

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be). And as such they move forward with their development decisions as they see fit. I can say that they do seem to be trying to take suggestions from the players on these forums. But until they start to implement something remotely familiar (to us, the people making suggestions), even that is not going to be enough to get people off their backs.

So many of you banner wavers come on here and make out like the vocal base here can’t agree on what they want, but every time they have one of these list/discussion threads there are always many things people agree upon.

Sidebar: if ANET actually fixed some bugs/lingering issues in this game that have been around FOREVER, then those lists/complaints would shorten, and even MORE people would begin to agree on what improvements could/should be made.

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

I find it amusing that you’re complaining about them not taking player feedback in the update that’s had way more player feedback than any other so far.

Andrew Clear.1750:

CEDWYN.5392:

ITT: People who still think Anet actually cares about what players want.

Not like there is a history of some company consistently ignoring player requests and releasing content in PVP that no one asked for. OOOOOOHHHH… WAIT.

Well, first I need to ask you a question…. What do players want? Seems all we want to do is complain about anything Anet creates.

We wanted WvW or we wouldn’t have bought the game. Now, everyone has a different spin on how WvW should be changed, based on their own experience (and normally most people on these forums just want it changed so they can win easier, at other peoples expense. They call it balance, but only balance for them).

So, in all fairness to Anet, we must admit that the player base cannot come to a consensus on what they want.

It is unrealistic to expect the playerbase to come to a consensus. It will not occur in PvE and it will not occur for WvW. There is a huge diversity of previous game cultures and expectations that players bring to this game, along with perceptions of existing gameplay.

If you have followed any of the general forum since release, the staggering amount of differences is apparent. Even this forum has a current example in the thread regarding play for PPT, bags or fights. Of course players advocate for their preferred playstyle.

It takes a mature/experienced player to accept/tolerate that multiple playstyles can exist in WvW and understand that those differences provide benefits for everyone. There are just as many examples of that on this forum and on multiple servers.

The onus should NOT be placed on the customer.

It belongs squarely in ANet’s lap and their own internal politics. It is ANet’s job to hone their vision and to correctly (and intelligently) balance that with input from their customers.

ANEt needs to internalize that they are in the Entertainment Business and as such, success depends on their customers’ experience.

And part of that success is dependent on receptive communication and transparency.

-retired software dev

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

I find it amusing that you’re complaining about them not taking player feedback in the update that’s had way more player feedback than any other so far.

You mean the same beta where people were warned if they were overtly critical they would booted from said beta?

If I speak to a wall about its faults did the wall take feedback, or was it just me talking to a wall?

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

DAoC also had TLs (team leaders) – player volunteers – whose job it was to collect input on their respective class subsection of players. You can argue that some had personal agendas and that some did a poor job representing their fellow players. but with 53 or so classes to try and balance (in a group PvP environment – RvR), Mythic understood the need to collect data.

One could say that DAoC’s failure was that it listened too much to its customers and hence there were constant nerf/buff cycles.

DAoC also had an on-going survey forum on the VN board used specifically to provide input to the devs on areas they wanted player input.

At least that was my experience from DAoC from release through 5+ years.

Obviously getting the balance right between input and implementing suggestion is hard. That is part of the developers’ job. A smart dev explains why as part of working in partnership with the customers.

Once a game is released, it no longer belongs solely to the developers. Customers take a hand in shaping it from there.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

I find it amusing that you’re complaining about them not taking player feedback in the update that’s had way more player feedback than any other so far.

You mean the same beta where people were warned if they were overtly critical they would booted from said beta?

If I speak to a wall about its faults did the wall take feedback, or was it just me talking to a wall?

Nobody was warned about being overly-critical. People were warned about staying on topic and not trying to push an agenda. Reading between the lines, they were saying don’t go on about GvG.

I don’t agree, nor understand why LS content is in WvW. I honestly don’t see how putting it there will make anyone interested in it.

You go into WvW for the first time looking for LS content and this is likely what your going to see or have happen:

- You get run over by a zerg (multiple times)
- You get called out or criticized for being rally bait around your LS content
- You may see in chat ignorant or criticizing chatter

Among other things, I don’t see how this will make anyone interested in WvW.

What inevitably happens when your leave your group or zerg? You get killed, so breaking away to smash up an energy tower will probably mean imminent death.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Are you people so completely not listening to us that you’re going to do this again?

Never mind the vocal minority. Your own metrics must have shown you that we WvW players simply avoided the Living story mobs in borderlands and the Eternal battleground unless the yaks were affected. Living story mobs don’t belong there.

There is no reason for players from the blue or green borderland to invade the red borderland and kill living story mobs, and for that reason alone, the living story mobs don’t belong in WvW.

I think I need to go find that interview with Colin J. where he said something to the effect that “if we listen to our players we’ll be ok”. Something like that.

They ignored the whole community for over a year and is for that this game is going to die in few months when new MMO games come out.

Andrew Clear.1750:

mrstealth.6701:

lordkrall.7241:

3: It gets more people into WvW and might end up with increased participation overall.

People that don’t want to do wvw/pvp aren’t going to get into it just because they sprinkle in a little pve content. No matter how much pve you cram into it, there are still people there want want to, and will, kill them. If they don’t want to fight other players, they aren’t going to enter wvw unless you put a pile of free precursors in the middle of the map.

I do hope that this means the end of living story on the other 4 wvw maps, because that does remove the negative side to pve/LS content in wvw. But it is still pointless and will bring very few new players into wvw, and just works to keep wvw players away from the new map because they don’t want to deal with LS content. If anything, there will simply be less people bothering to do the living story content because of where it is.

And I just had a friend tell me this as I was typing it. She won’t be doing any of the next living story content that takes place in wvw, because she has no interest in wvw. So there is one player will still be avoiding wvw, and is now avoiding LS content as well.

Hmm, seems some people really have short memories. Don’t you remember the flood of PvE people into WvW in the beginning of the season? PvE people will go anywhere to get their achievements.

Baiting them in with achievements isn’t creating interest/desire to do wvw. The segment of pve player that feel the need to have every possible achievement point will go there for however long it takes them to get those points. But they still aren’t going to be actually getting into wvw. They don’t want to be there, they just want achievement points and many of them feel “forced” into wvw to keep up.

They don’t want to be in wvw, and quite frankly, I don’t want to be playing along side people that don’t want to be there. It does nothing but hurt both groups of players.

I’m in the group of players that enjoys both wvw and pve, but I don’t want to see the two mashed together.

mrstealth.6701:

Andrew Clear.1750:

mrstealth.6701:

lordkrall.7241:

3: It gets more people into WvW and might end up with increased participation overall.

People that don’t want to do wvw/pvp aren’t going to get into it just because they sprinkle in a little pve content. No matter how much pve you cram into it, there are still people there want want to, and will, kill them. If they don’t want to fight other players, they aren’t going to enter wvw unless you put a pile of free precursors in the middle of the map.

I do hope that this means the end of living story on the other 4 wvw maps, because that does remove the negative side to pve/LS content in wvw. But it is still pointless and will bring very few new players into wvw, and just works to keep wvw players away from the new map because they don’t want to deal with LS content. If anything, there will simply be less people bothering to do the living story content because of where it is.

And I just had a friend tell me this as I was typing it. She won’t be doing any of the next living story content that takes place in wvw, because she has no interest in wvw. So there is one player will still be avoiding wvw, and is now avoiding LS content as well.

Hmm, seems some people really have short memories. Don’t you remember the flood of PvE people into WvW in the beginning of the season? PvE people will go anywhere to get their achievements.

Baiting them in with achievements isn’t creating interest/desire to do wvw. The segment of pve player that feel the need to have every possible achievement point will go there for however long it takes them to get those points. But they still aren’t going to be actually getting into wvw. They don’t want to be there, they just want achievement points and many of them feel “forced” into wvw to keep up.

They don’t want to be in wvw, and quite frankly, I don’t want to be playing along side people that don’t want to be there. It does nothing but hurt both groups of players.

I’m in the group of players that enjoys both wvw and pve, but I don’t want to see the two mashed together.

Do you really think the kind of player who strives to get every single achievement point is going to give up 3/day by not doing the WvW dailies?

Don’t fool yourself, those players are in WvW every single day.

It’s not that difficult to spend the majority of your time in WvW and still get every daily category.

I’m okay with Living Story stuff in WvW, but it needs to have more of an impact or bring with it new mechanics for WvWers to use. I liked some of the Tower of Nightmares stuff in WvW because it was quite funny luring people into those spore clouds for some fabulous ganking, but why wasn’t this expanded upon? If we destroyed one of those giant seedlings in WvW we should have been able to collect spores that we could load into catas, trebs or mortars, so we could use that new pollen debuff offensively. That would have been fun and would have changed up WvW slightly for the duration of that LS content.

Nabrok.9023:

Do you really think the kind of player who strives to get every single achievement point is going to give up 3/day by not doing the WvW dailies?

Don’t fool yourself, those players are in WvW every single day.

It’s not that difficult to spend the majority of your time in WvW and still get every daily category.

And the same thing applies to that situation, does it not? How many of them are in there only to not be left behind in achievement points, and would otherwise never enter wvw? Whether it is for a one-time living story achievement or for recurring dailies, it’s not creating interest in actually participating in wvw. It’s the line between ‘I want to do this’ and ‘I need to do this if I want more points’ that I’m referring to.

If there were no daily achievements points for them in wvw, would they still be in there every day? I’d guess the number of players that gained some actual interest in wvw due to being in there for dailies is far less than the number that would prefer to never have to do wvw for daily points.

Any part of the game is much better off if it’s filled with players that want to participate and actually enjoy that aspect of the game. A player that is in only wvw to capture a camp for their daily doesn’t want to fight me, and I’d rather be fighting someone that has enough real interest in wvw/pvp to be knowledgeable enough to put up a fight.

Cyga.1246:

Scarlet in WvW. Worst evil character ever. Oh my god

Just imagine that you are taking an objective with your group and suddenly Scarlet drops by to say “HI”. Oh the tears….

Regards

Seed

Why is everyone so mad? I always wanted to know what happens next to Charlotte and her minions.

Seed.5467:

Cyga.1246:

Scarlet in WvW. Worst evil character ever. Oh my god

Just imagine that you are taking an objective with your group and suddenly Scarlet drops by to say “HI”. Oh the tears….

Regards

Seed

Would be fun if players could steal the airship to atack or defend the castles :>

Imo that would be a great adition to WvW

mrstealth.6701:

Nabrok.9023:

Do you really think the kind of player who strives to get every single achievement point is going to give up 3/day by not doing the WvW dailies?

Don’t fool yourself, those players are in WvW every single day.

It’s not that difficult to spend the majority of your time in WvW and still get every daily category.

And the same thing applies to that situation, does it not? How many of them are in there only to not be left behind in achievement points, and would otherwise never enter wvw? Whether it is for a one-time living story achievement or for recurring dailies, it’s not creating interest in actually participating in wvw. It’s the line between ‘I want to do this’ and ‘I need to do this if I want more points’ that I’m referring to.

If there were no daily achievements points for them in wvw, would they still be in there every day? I’d guess the number of players that gained some actual interest in wvw due to being in there for dailies is far less than the number that would prefer to never have to do wvw for daily points.

Any part of the game is much better off if it’s filled with players that want to participate and actually enjoy that aspect of the game. A player that is in only wvw to capture a camp for their daily doesn’t want to fight me, and I’d rather be fighting someone that has enough real interest in wvw/pvp to be knowledgeable enough to put up a fight.

I have over 15k achievement points, this puts me in the top 500 NA. I’m not bragging, just mentioning this so that you know where I’m coming from. Obviously I can’t speak for all high achievement players, but I suspect my views are fairly representative.

I generally complete every daily every day, with some exceptions (I often skip costume brawl and defense repairer, and the new sPvP tournament win ones take too long). Yesterday I played for about 5 hours, I spent at least half of that time in WvW and about 45 minutes in sPvP.

The WvW components yesterday were quite easy (all solo-able), I could certainly have completed them in less than an hour if I wished, and I stayed in WvW for a while after they were done. I don’t do all the achievements because they’re there, I do all the achievements because I enjoy playing the game.

I’m not a WvW player. I’m not a PvE player. I’m not a sPvP player. I am a Guild Wars 2 player.

Nabrok.9023:

The WvW components yesterday were quite easy (all solo-able), I could certainly have completed them in less than an hour if I wished, and I stayed in WvW for a while after they were done. I don’t do all the achievements because they’re there, I do all the achievements because I enjoy playing the game.

I’m not a WvW player. I’m not a PvE player. I’m not a sPvP player. I am a Guild Wars 2 player.

I know you’re not alone in that, I enjoy both wvw and pve myself, but there are a lot of players that are only going to be in wvw for however long it takes them to finish these living story achievements. The same players that showed up at the start of season one, then were nowhere to be found after they got their points, or at least enough to qualify for the chest key. I know there are a lot in that group, and judging from the player surge they caused on my server I’d guess that group is larger than the one you and I are in.

And why do we want achievement hunters in WvW???

(Don’t say for free kills, because even that is boring). I would prefer ANET not “force” people into WvW, just as I would prefer ANET not “force” PVE at me.

sminkiottone.6972:

It will be season 1 all over again, most PvErs don’t even bother to change build when they enter WvW lol.

I don’t. I use my WvW build most of the time for PvE – it’s not that crippling to me

Also, I hate seeing players who really like WvW saying they don’t want PvE players showing up in their game type. It’s basically saying “we don’t want new players in our format, we just want to retain the people who play there and screw those servers where it’s almost empty all the time”.

It just doesn’t seem . . . wise to keep going “we want X players only” while wanting the format to succeed.

Seed.5467:

Cyga.1246:

Scarlet in WvW. Worst evil character ever. Oh my god

Just imagine that you are taking an objective with your group and suddenly Scarlet drops by to say “HI”. Oh the tears….

In WvW? They’d stack, destroy her, and move on. No tears, just a ton of catharsis.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, I hate seeing players who really like WvW saying they don’t want PvE players showing up in their game type. It’s basically saying “we don’t want new players in our format, we just want to retain the people who play there and screw those servers where it’s almost empty all the time”.

It just doesn’t seem . . . wise to keep going “we want X players only” while wanting the format to succeed.

I want to see new players getting into wvw, but that means players that are actually interested in wvw. Not players that don’t really want to be there, and are just after achievement points/living story rewards.

mrstealth.6701:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, I hate seeing players who really like WvW saying they don’t want PvE players showing up in their game type. It’s basically saying “we don’t want new players in our format, we just want to retain the people who play there and screw those servers where it’s almost empty all the time”.

It just doesn’t seem . . . wise to keep going “we want X players only” while wanting the format to succeed.

I want to see new players getting into wvw, but that means players that are actually interested in wvw. Not players that don’t really want to be there, and are just after achievement points/living story rewards.

Yup, but I’m primarily a PvE player who wants to be useful in WvW and fails miserably every time due to general failure to be good at PvP material in any game ever (And my computer used to generally suck on toast when exposed to more than 50 players in a combat moshpit.)

I show up for the achievements, sure. But I’m not idiot enough to avoid doing necessary things like . . . yak escorts, siege refresh, gate/wall repair . . . just so I can go karma train with the rest of the server. (And my computer, again, used to melt a bit with said karma train.)

King Amadaeus.8619:

And why do we want achievement hunters in WvW???

(Don’t say for free kills, because even that is boring). I would prefer ANET not “force” people into WvW, just as I would prefer ANET not “force” PVE at me.

We don’t.

We want potential new WvW:ers. And this is a good way to get that.
There are quite a bit of people that had no plans to enter WvW because they have decided from the start that they won’t like it.
But then they actually tried and and started playing it regularly.

lordkrall.7241:

King Amadaeus.8619:

And why do we want achievement hunters in WvW???

(Don’t say for free kills, because even that is boring). I would prefer ANET not “force” people into WvW, just as I would prefer ANET not “force” PVE at me.

We don’t.

We want potential new WvW:ers. And this is a good way to get that.
There are quite a bit of people that had no plans to enter WvW because they have decided from the start that they won’t like it.
But then they actually tried and and started playing it regularly.

Absolutely. Things like map completion and achievements bring people into WvW that might never try it otherwise, and a lot of those people find out that they like it and become regular WvW players.

Of course, there are others that just come in, get what they need, and leave. Not everybody is going to like it, but at least they gave it a shot.

Nabrok.9023:

Absolutely. Things like map completion and achievements bring people into WvW that might never try it otherwise, and a lot of those people find out that they like it and become regular WvW players.

I play it largely because it’s less pressure (most weeks) than your typical PvP content in other games. Of course, as noted there’s still a ton of elitist “we don’t want those dirty PvE players in our match” which floats around.

Or, naturally, “you need to roll a warrior/guardian/elementalist/thief/mesmer/necro instead of your engineer/ranger/warrior/guardian/mesmer/necro/elementalist” . . .

Nabrok.9023:

lordkrall.7241:

We don’t.

We want potential new WvW:ers. And this is a good way to get that.
There are quite a bit of people that had no plans to enter WvW because they have decided from the start that they won’t like it.
But then they actually tried and and started playing it regularly.

Absolutely. Things like map completion and achievements bring people into WvW that might never try it otherwise, and a lot of those people find out that they like it and become regular WvW players.

Of course, there are others that just come in, get what they need, and leave. Not everybody is going to like it, but at least they gave it a shot.

I think daily achievements and the wvw season achievements are the way to do that, even though the latter did pull in a lot that never wanted to be there. Those at least get players involved in wvw-related activities, so they have that chance of finding that they enjoy it. Unless this new living story content involves existing wvw mechanics and goals, it’s nothing more than tacked-on pve content on a wvw map.

Players on an open world combat map trying to complete pve goals are likely to just be griefer bait. Maybe that’s an overly cynical view, but I see it as being very likely. If you want to do something to get people onto a wvw map, it needs to be directly related to wvw. Trying to populate the map with players that aren’t even there to do anything wvw-related is pointless and harmful to everyone’s experience.

mrstealth.6701:

Nabrok.9023:

lordkrall.7241:

We don’t.

We want potential new WvW:ers. And this is a good way to get that.
There are quite a bit of people that had no plans to enter WvW because they have decided from the start that they won’t like it.
But then they actually tried and and started playing it regularly.

Absolutely. Things like map completion and achievements bring people into WvW that might never try it otherwise, and a lot of those people find out that they like it and become regular WvW players.

Of course, there are others that just come in, get what they need, and leave. Not everybody is going to like it, but at least they gave it a shot.

I think daily achievements and the wvw season achievements are the way to do that, even though the latter did pull in a lot that never wanted to be there. Those at least get players involved in wvw-related activities, so they have that chance of finding that they enjoy it. Unless this new living story content involves existing wvw mechanics and goals, it’s nothing more than tacked-on pve content on a wvw map.

Players on an open world combat map trying to complete pve goals are likely to just be griefer bait. Maybe that’s an overly cynical view, but I see it as being very likely. If you want to do something to get people onto a wvw map, it needs to be directly related to wvw. Trying to populate the map with players that aren’t even there to do anything wvw-related is pointless and harmful to everyone’s experience.

Well, I have a hard time defining what’s PvE and what’s not in WvW zones.

Of course, when they copy/paste events from PvE maps into WvW maps (i.e. Offshoot events), yeah, that’s a PvE event. But if you take that same event and give it some WvW relevance … say 10 points for your server when you win … that would mean players may compete to complete it, so is it still a PvE event?

But these events that will be in EotM are not in any PvE maps, they’re only in EotM (a WvW map). So are they PvE events? We don’t know exactly what they are because they weren’t in the beta, but even if they can be completed without ever fighting a player … well you can take a keep without ever fighting a player … does that mean that taking keeps is PvE?

I don’t know. Does it matter? It’s a thing to do, other players might try to stop me from doing it, or I might try to stop them from doing it.

Nabrok.9023:

Well, I have a hard time defining what’s PvE and what’s not in WvW zones.

It is a rather fuzzy line, but I don’t think I’d consider a toxic chute event much more wvw-related if it just added a few points to the score. Maybe if it had some impact on the map or gameplay, similar to mercenary camps defending/assaulting supply camps. All they really did was spawn mobs along yak routes, but they just attacked any server’s yaks.

I think what I’d like to see out of the EotM content is an NPC defended keep. Let Scarlet take over a keep and try hold it with her large armies and siege weapons. That would have the potential to be a decent introduction into one of the major aspects of wvw.

wvw is the reason veterans are still playing this game, remember that Devon. Please treat wvw and us with the deserved respect. i like many others literally log in, go to WvW, and maybe a bit of spvp. there is a reason i dont play PVE in this game, actually many reasons. mostly, i think the writing is terrible, the Living Story was a disaster, and it bores me. i suggest you dont mix PVE with pvp unless we’re just talking about guards, lords, and champions that protect certain locations.

/my opinion

mrstealth.6701:

Nabrok.9023:

Well, I have a hard time defining what’s PvE and what’s not in WvW zones.

It is a rather fuzzy line, but I don’t think I’d consider a toxic chute event much more wvw-related if it just added a few points to the score. Maybe if it had some impact on the map or gameplay, similar to mercenary camps defending/assaulting supply camps. All they really did was spawn mobs along yak routes, but they just attacked any server’s yaks.

I think what I’d like to see out of the EotM content is an NPC defended keep. Let Scarlet take over a keep and try hold it with her large armies and siege weapons. That would have the potential to be a decent introduction into one of the major aspects of wvw.

“Who wants to kill Scarlet? She’s due to pop up in Edge of the Mists.”

I think we’d see karma trains stop running just to go kill her.

The point is that most WvW’ers DON’T WANT TO FIGHT PVE MOBS
And if for some reason, they get a hankerin, there’s plenty of places for them to go do it.

And I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that WvW’ers don’t care about there being a ‘reason’ behind a new maps’ existence. . . . . .

Its a way to introduce pve only players to wvw.
Nothing wrong with that imo.
Except of course when the mobs snipe yaks.