Any news about the score system changes and night cap influx reduction?
I’m sure that something about changing the score system and reduce the influx of the night cap has been already discussed by the Devs, it would be nice to know when you guys plan to implement that… any infos you can share about?
Yes, I hope they hurry up with the scoring changes. Especially skirmishes. I think that will revitalize WvW as much or more than any of the recent changes. And with skirmishes you probably don’t even need all those other scoring changes.
And I don’t think skirmishes were controversial. The controversial part was the timezone scoring difference.
The biggest change I want to see is points for capture that scales inversely off the size of the “blob”. Past a certain size you would get no points for capture as you just facerolled the whole objective, but say you took a tier 3 keep with 5 people total contributing, then you should receive a pretty hefty piece of warscore for your efforts. Probably harder to implement than anything else they are considering, but I think this is the biggest thing that could combat the current “everyone must be in a blob” mentality that so many players seem to have. It also helps the lower population servers more by potentially rewarding their skilled players far more than skilled players in the blobs from the larger servers, which could go some way to balance the warscore even without skirmishes.
The biggest change I want to see is points for capture that scales inversely off the size of the “blob”. Past a certain size you would get no points for capture as you just facerolled the whole objective, but say you took a tier 3 keep with 5 people total contributing, then you should receive a pretty hefty piece of warscore for your efforts. Probably harder to implement than anything else they are considering, but I think this is the biggest thing that could combat the current “everyone must be in a blob” mentality that so many players seem to have. It also helps the lower population servers more by potentially rewarding their skilled players far more than skilled players in the blobs from the larger servers, which could go some way to balance the warscore even without skirmishes.
I feel like you haven’t met our friends over on Yak’s Bend.
Yes, I hope they hurry up with the scoring changes. Especially skirmishes. I think that will revitalize WvW as much or more than any of the recent changes. And with skirmishes you probably don’t even need all those other scoring changes.
And I don’t think skirmishes were controversial. The controversial part was the timezone scoring difference.
OK, maybe not explicitly noted as controversial.
Just saying those things we have yet to see have potential for a significant negative impact. That post is their roadmap and we can expect to see those remaining items in the upcoming patches. The negative potential calls for longer testing and possibly many iterations before release.
For example Skirmishes add to complexity. Even now majority of WvW players cannot tell if their server is losing or gaining ranking in the matchup or how much warscore is needed for that.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
Rewards could promote server stacking and influx of PvE players
Not saying I entirely disagree with this, to be frank most of the concerns you listed are entirely valid (as is the possibility of server stacking for rewards), however, you are assuming an influx of PvE players would be bad enough to think of it as a reason to not improve WvW rewards.
Sure, it might have some adverse effect for a time, but considering how badly we need people I don’t think getting new people in there for any reason is inherently bad idea. It is only potentially problematic if none of those players have any intention of actually playing WvW ever which I find highly unlikely… some people just need reasons to play that are not as abstract as the reasons WvW offers right now. Currently there is literally no reason to attempt to win matchups other than server ranking and “pride” after all.
Rewards could promote server stacking and influx of PvE players
Not saying I entirely disagree with this, to be frank most of the concerns you listed are entirely valid (as is the possibility of server stacking for rewards), however, you are assuming an influx of PvE players would be bad enough to think of it as a reason to not improve WvW rewards.
Sure, it might have some adverse effect for a time, but considering how badly we need people I don’t think getting new people in there for any reason is inherently bad idea. It is only potentially problematic if none of those players have any intention of actually playing WvW ever which I find highly unlikely… some people just need reasons to play that are not as abstract as the reasons WvW offers right now. Currently there is literally no reason to attempt to win matchups other than server ranking and “pride” after all.
The PvE players play the best gold/time ratio in the game. They are very savvy in that regard. PvE players do not play for server pride nor server ranking. They play for personal wealth.
As soon as ANet PvE developers notice that their zones become deserter they will crank up rewards there. And PvE players will gravitate out of WvW again.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
As soon as ANet PvE developers notice that their zones become deserter they will crank up rewards there. And PvE players will gravitate out of WvW again.
That is a rather cynical way of thinking… even if you are right that doesn’t change the fact that you are basically saying no to better rewards, because it might bring in new players, which is totally idiotic.
The fact remains that server pride is pointless… there is no reason to try and win a matchup as a whole. Sure, you can enjoy the gameplay and even get something out of winning individual skirmishes and battles, but there is literally nothing that drives you to win a matchup. There is simply no personal or server wide incentives in place that make the win matter whatsoever.
Improved rewards can be seen as a means to incentivize people to get out of their comfort zone, what happens after that is irrelevant to the rewards. At that point is up to the game play to be engaging enough to make people to want to stick around.
If you look at the recent release notes you see some of those changes are already in the game.
Many of those remaining items were controversial.
Skirmishes would make the already complex system even more complex
Last Stand diminishes the early matchup war efforts
Upgraded Objectives Higher Score benefits the blob tactics
Points for Capture could lead to EotM like karma-training
Rewards could promote server stacking and influx of PvE players
The only thing that was controversial was the “suggestion” of adding scoring multipliers to peak times. But that was just a last resort plan if the other scoring changes had little impact to overnight runaway scores. Which a lot of people glossed over and thought it was part of the plan to be implement, so the issue blew up.
Everything else was fine.
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
As soon as ANet PvE developers notice that their zones become deserter they will crank up rewards there. And PvE players will gravitate out of WvW again.
That is a rather cynical way of thinking… even if you are right that doesn’t change the fact that you are basically saying no to better rewards, because it might bring in new players, which is totally idiotic.
The fact remains that server pride is pointless… there is no reason to try and win a matchup as a whole. Sure, you can enjoy the gameplay and even get something out of winning individual skirmishes and battles, but there is literally nothing that drives you to win a matchup. There is simply no personal or server wide incentives in place that make the win matter whatsoever.
Improved rewards can be seen as a means to incentivize people to get out of their comfort zone, what happens after that is irrelevant to the rewards. At that point is up to the game play to be engaging enough to make people to want to stick around.
Cynical, yeah maybe. But have you ever seen new PvE content released without the best rewards in the game?
If WvW had the best rewards those PvE players would swarm in and turn WvW into a gold farming tool. Rewarding defense has already been proven impossible, so only offense would get the rewards (Points Per Capture). WvW would turn into EotM k-trains.
But all that was discussed in that thread. Implementing everything on the list without considering the negative effects would destroy WvW as we know it.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
But all that was discussed in that thread. Implementing everything on the list without considering the negative effects would destroy WvW as we know it.
WvW as we know it isn’t doing so well right now as far as I can tell… destroying and rebuilding it sounds almost enticing. There is two sides to every coin, you say PvE has the best rewards… yes that is true, unfortunately a Skritt is very close analog to your typical MMO player.
I am only saying there are probably plenty of people who wouldn’t mind getting involved in WvW if it was perceived as being worth the time invested. As for karma train argument, it is upto the mechanics to not let players abuse the mechanics like that if that indeed is not considered the intended gameplay.
A lot of the problem is the population that isn’t balanced between the three servers in almost all the match-ups. Commanders that are continually faced with overly populated server time zones can only back cap and not engage. Most new commanders give up because they can’t do anything and get blobbed down.
I mentioned Map Queues based on average “currently logged in” population in another thread. It would force a balance between the 3 servers.
It would help with the following that was mentioned below. Can’t blob down nor karma train if you can’t out number the opponent by vast amounts.
Upgraded Objectives Higher Score – wouldn’t have the number advantage.
Points for Capture – wouldn’t be able to blob karma train
But all that was discussed in that thread. Implementing everything on the list without considering the negative effects would destroy WvW as we know it.
WvW as we know it isn’t doing so well right now as far as I can tell… destroying and rebuilding it sounds almost enticing. There is two sides to every coin, you say PvE has the best rewards… yes that is true, unfortunately a Skritt is very close analog to your typical MMO player.
I am only saying there are probably plenty of people who wouldn’t mind getting involved in WvW if it was perceived as being worth the time invested. As for karma train argument, it is upto the mechanics to not let players abuse the mechanics like that if that indeed is not considered the intended gameplay.
WvW is in better shape than it was a year ago. All the changes this year, that Tyler’s thread, polls, make me hopeful for WvW’s future. The biggest threat is taking the game mode in wrong direction (polls can be misleading) while CU and Crowfall are coming up.
Maybe you are right. Maybe the PvE players would be nice cannon fodder to populate WvW. The developers have to somehow outsmart the gold/time savvy players.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
A lot of the problem is the population that isn’t balanced between the three servers in almost all the match-ups. Commanders that are continually faced with overly populated server time zones can only back cap and not engage. Most new commanders give up because they can’t do anything and get blobbed down.
I mentioned Map Queues based on average “currently logged in” population in another thread. It would force a balance between the 3 servers.
It would help with the following that was mentioned below. Can’t blob down nor karma train if you can’t out number the opponent by vast amounts.
Upgraded Objectives Higher Score – wouldn’t have the number advantage.
Points for Capture – wouldn’t be able to blob karma train
You have identified the problem right, but the offered solution is too simple.
Imagine a player seeing the following message: “Your server has exceeded this hour’s player quota and you will be shortly taken out of WvW”. And then the poor guy is put in queue with no indication when he might get back in.
If he was a Baruch Bay night team player the queue could last for 12 hours. Since that is the only ES speaking server he has nowhere to transfer to in hopes for shorter queues.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
