Dear Anet…. I realize its a ‘strategy’ to use War-banners, signets, etc. to revive A keep/tower lord but its becoming abused. When gold and other forms of currency are used to attack and siege a keep, its shouldn’t be viable to have 30 War-banners used to wear down the attacking force and defend the keep. Would it be possible to restrict how many times the Lord can be Insta-rezzed? Or to NOT reset the cap-bar when the lord is bannered? This would bring more stability and fairness into WvW as currently Lord bannering can be quite broken.
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
I am kind of in favor of this to be honest. I have no issue with him being able to be bannered but there should be a diminishing return after being rezzed so much. Something similar to the diminish on down state would be good.
Have him start with less health each time then? This makes sense to me. Maybe each time lord gets ressed he/she starts with 10% less hp, with a cap at 20% total hp.
EDIT
No actually. Its the attacking servers fault for not sending a team to cut off reinforcements.
Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE
From an ethical point of view, is it wrong the let the lord be killed over and over again by the players? It’s modern day torture…
same discussion was brought up on a retirement home my grandmother was institutionalized.
A old man there had a heart problem, and he had been resuscitated 4 times in just a few months due to sudden heart attacks, cramps, arrhythmia and whatnot. He had Alzheimer decease ontop of this, and his nearest of kin had perished before him. He had little left to live for, yet, would it be right to let him die? He was alive, and from time to time, he “lit up” and were able to talk about day to day events, before slowly going back to his old, demented state.
Killing and Reviving the lord is pretty much a simplified version of what i just told you. So let me ask you, should the old man be left to die? Or should the nurses do their best to give him a long life?
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
There should be 2 effects.
1) Death penalty that stacks so that you have a limited number of times you can banner (can still be used strategically but cannot be spammed). At max stacks the lord cannot be bannered but can still be resed manually. DP decreases over time if lord does not die. Resets completely if the keep is not contested for 3min.
2) Capture progress should not reset when lord is bannered -or- scale resets in accordance with how much DP the lord has accumulated. If the lord has max DP then the capture progress is only reset if the lord is manually resed and the DP stacks reset when keep is not contested for 3min.
Tactical Fury [TF] – Late NA/early OCX driver (SoS)
Spirit of Faith [HOPE] – RIP
Yes, constant, non-stop Bannering of a Keep Lord is pretty annoying. We do it all the time, as does everyone else, and to be honest it has always felt odd, like some sort of easter egg ability dropped in the game or an exploit that someone was too lazy to fix.
Personally not had a problem with it, solved on the attacking side by prioritising incoming warriors and being aware of where the lord is. It’s nice to have a mechanic which allows for active defence and extended battle.
Warriors aren’t the only class who can instant-revive (or ‘banner’) a lord. Guardians, Necros, Eles, and a few other classes as well can revive or ‘banner’ with signets and other utility skills. This is often abused at Garrison Keeps as well as EB and SMC keeps. I don’t know how prevalent this problem is outside of Gold League Servers but this really does need to be addressed.
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
From an ethical point of view, is it wrong the let the lord be killed over and over again by the players? It’s modern day torture…
same discussion was brought up on a retirement home my grandmother was institutionalized.
A old man there had a heart problem, and he had been resuscitated 4 times in just a few months due to sudden heart attacks, cramps, arrhythmia and whatnot. He had Alzheimer decease ontop of this, and his nearest of kin had perished before him. He had little left to live for, yet, would it be right to let him die? He was alive, and from time to time, he “lit up” and were able to talk about day to day events, before slowly going back to his old, demented state.
Killing and Reviving the lord is pretty much a simplified version of what i just told you. So let me ask you, should the old man be left to die? Or should the nurses do their best to give him a long life?
that’s a horrible exampleand has nothing to do with the issue at hand
It was said before during Season 1 as well and the majority agrees that lords should be given the down state abilityas long as he is just down but not dead banners should work on him but……. when he is totally dead as in defeated no amount of banner drop should reverse that.
They’ve given NPC’s down state in PVE before and I find it odd that they would start season 2 with such an obvious exploit still in effect when they have a way to fix this
I see no problem with the Lord being able to be warbannered as many times as people like, it’s not like they’re overly difficult to drop back down.
However I think the cap-bar should not reset when he is bannered. It should be up to the defending team to push the attackers out of the circle and reclaim it back themselves, not get an insta reset.
But as Anet has said before. Kill the players if the lord got bannered it is because you did not kill all the defenders. The door treb is already supposed to be nerfed. I for one do not want all of wvw to be a big karma train.
Learn to kill the defenders first or no rewards for you.
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
From an ethical point of view, is it wrong the let the lord be killed over and over again by the players? It’s modern day torture…
I do this to the people I kill when I’m roaming. I keep downing them until they have no more downed health bar. It’s hilarious
I feel there should be some sort of de buff on The Lord to prevent this from happening repeatedly but still have it implemented, but The Lord should also get a short RI to compensate. In addition, there should be a buff to initial defenses, like walls and towers. By implementing possibly higher walls or towers on the walls that get built with fortification upgrades allowing for ballista placements at 1500 range, defending the initial walls and gates would be much easier and make the game much more enjoyable when defending. Also, there should be an upgrade that triggers when a gate hits 50% called “Bolster”, which applies a buff to all gates, reducing incoming damage by 30-40% in exchange for 100 supply.
I have more ideas but i am not able to type them all out right now.
Or just kill the warriors doing the bannering, problem solved. This is like complaining about “all that unstoppable AoE damage” just because you can’t be bothered killing the arrow cart two feet in front of you.
The Problem at hand isn’t the ability of killing the defenders, otherwise EVERY keep would have this dilemma. However like I said before this problem is only prevalent in the EB keeps/SMC and Garrison Keep (as those literally take under a minute to run back to after dying). I believe that a limit of the amount of instant-revives the lord has OR not resetting the cap bar after a revive are all viable and necessary changes that would make WvW in general more interesting, fair, and entertaining (especially considering that we are at the height of WvW activity right now for season 2).
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
Or just kill the warriors doing the bannering, problem solved. This is like complaining about “all that unstoppable AoE damage” just because you can’t be bothered killing the arrow cart two feet in front of you.
your comparison is flawed.
How would you feel if an enemy player you killed not just downed gets rezzed by a banner or whatever other skill ?
you’d be on the forums calling no fair yourself.
sure in this case it is a NPC lord and not a player but the same limitations should apply as in fully dead cannot be rezzed by banners or whatever skills.
On the other hand tbh we all know it is a blatant exploit I could care less it benefits me just fine I main warrior in WvW and I’m on Beast Gate
If a.net fixes it fine by me, if not also great I will keep bannering that lord and trolling till they decide to fix it
The Problem at hand isn’t the ability of killing the defenders, otherwise EVERY keep would have this dilemma. However like I said before this problem is only prevalent in the EB keeps/SMC and Garrison Keep (as those literally take under a minute to run back to after dying). I believe that a limit of the amount of instant-revives the lord has OR not resetting the cap bar after a revive are all viable and necessary changes that would make WvW in general more interesting, fair, and entertaining (especially considering that we are at the height of WvW activity right now for season 2).
Did you not consider this was by design? That anet wants certain objectives to be hard to flip. Geeze
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
The Problem at hand isn’t the ability of killing the defenders, otherwise EVERY keep would have this dilemma. However like I said before this problem is only prevalent in the EB keeps/SMC and Garrison Keep (as those literally take under a minute to run back to after dying). I believe that a limit of the amount of instant-revives the lord has OR not resetting the cap bar after a revive are all viable and necessary changes that would make WvW in general more interesting, fair, and entertaining (especially considering that we are at the height of WvW activity right now for season 2).
Did you not consider this was by design? That anet wants certain objectives to be hard to flip. Geeze
Considering that siege, players, NPC’s, and close spawns already make it incredibly difficult to flip those keeps, The least Anet could do for us is fix this problem. I’m not saying that Bannering the lord should be removed by any means, but the current system needs work badly. A server shouldn’t be rewarded for bannering the lord over and over again until the attacking force has been weakened and removed. Just rewarding that server for bad defense.
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
lol… if you have the power to kill the lord several times, then there is a lack or communication and coordination. To prevent warriors: scouts at entry/s, line of warding, circles, ( ahead of time) “interupting….” crowd control, knock back…. “I feel” like this thread was 100% made before those^ types of communication and coordination were achieved; hence what the wvw community would call “crying” which just means whining
You play on GoM where there are more tumbleweeds in the borderlands than players. But in higher tiers its a problem. With literally every borderland qued for season 2 in T1 and T2 the banner abuse is a problem. Not saying this out of disrespect to lower tier servers but yall have no idea how bad it is for the higher tier servers. 140+players attacking and defending means the revives are endless and its beginning to discourage players from even attacking certain objectives. And trust me when I say T1 and T2 have no problems communicating a 70 man offensive!
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
It’s a tactic the attacking side has to account for. If you kill the lord out in the open and fail to stop enemy warriors running in to banner then you have failed that battle and should adjust your tactics next time around to prevent warriors easily bannering the lord.
Why make sense, when it’s so much more fun to make nonsense?
Please don’t change this until defenders get fortified gates upgrade and walls that are not death traps to anyone trying to defend.
It’s already to easy to take things in WvW with every offensive WXP mastery possible.
Defenders have warbanner and the siege that gets dragon toothed, marks, grenaded and aoe’d to death.
But yer, I prefer WvW to be a warzone, if you prefer it to be a loot bag train then please lets take away more defensive abilities and tactics or delete WvW all together and make Queensdale the new WvW map.
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
Funny thing about walls. Currently it’s easier to kill a defender standing on the wall than an attacker that’s on the ground. I’m pretty sure walls don’t work like that irl.
This does not need changing, just kill the warriors, just by having the banner they are easier to kill than normal.
Other classes can do this but there skills are very hit an miss compared to the warriors banner, so not really a problem.
There is really very little, ‘defense’ left in WvW now, its just a endless rotation of flipping, so it would be bad nerfing a tactic that creates some mega fun fights. I really enjoy those long fights, in the confined space of keeps/stonemist, they are the most fun part of WvW in my opinion. Also, sometimes you can get upto a 100+ bags out of them and lots of drops. I am on a ‘gold’ server and those kind of fights are becoming increasingly rare as it is.
But as Anet has said before. Kill the players if the lord got bannered it is because you did not kill all the defenders. The door treb is already supposed to be nerfed. I for one do not want all of wvw to be a big karma train.
Learn to kill the defenders first or no rewards for you.
Exactly, on top of that thanks to that ress mechanic fights lasts longer then 1minute.
Pull the lord to a corner and kill it there and get everyone able to ress it away from it.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
^THIS^
Once we were outnumbered at enemie garrison. We got lord revived about 12 times in total. It was hard first 3 times, but then it was just almost 1 hour long loot bags farming fest, and we captured it. I love this mechanic.
Why not use the same mechanic as for players ?
I mean adding a down state to lords and allow instant rez with war banner as long as lord is down. They can increase lord resistance in down state, so it won’t instant die with player attacks.
If lord is dead, then hand rez, same as it currently works for players.
They introduced this annoying down state in pve with Scarlet’s minions, so it should be possible to do the same in WvW.
Again warriors ARE NOT the only class that can instant revive. Necros, Guardians, and Eles also have a instant revive ability that they can spam. We can stop the warriors no problem, but other classes can revive from 900 range or more! The attacking force already has to worry about clearing the cap circle, Keeping the lord dead, stopping enemies from entering multiple directions, and surviving the pressure being applied to them. It shouldn’t be allowed to instantly revive the lord 40 times to defend a fortification. The game is just rewarding bad defense at that point.
Bilbo the Great
Guild Leader of the EU guild [PAIN]
Sea of Sorrows
Again warriors ARE NOT the only class that can instant revive. Necros, Guardians, and Eles also have a instant revive ability that they can spam. We can stop the warriors no problem, but other classes can revive from 900 range or more! The attacking force already has to worry about clearing the cap circle, Keeping the lord dead, stopping enemies from entering multiple directions, and surviving the pressure being applied to them. It shouldn’t be allowed to instantly revive the lord 40 times to defend a fortification. The game is just rewarding bad defense at that point.
And again, no one says warriors alone are your problem. I am aware there are many classes that are able to rez the lord. BUT again, I don’t see this as the problem, if you read my early post I said quite clearly the fault is your for not killing the players. The game isn’t awarding bad offense, that seems to be the problem your having here. In my experience we don’t have problems with constant rezing of the lord unless we are trying to take a fully upgraded garrison or other structure with a waypoint. If this is the case those structures should be harder to take.
But wow, I can’t keep repeating myself like this.
Cheers, I am out.
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
Again warriors ARE NOT the only class that can instant revive. Necros, Guardians, and Eles also have a instant revive ability that they can spam. We can stop the warriors no problem, but other classes can revive from 900 range or more! The attacking force already has to worry about clearing the cap circle, Keeping the lord dead, stopping enemies from entering multiple directions, and surviving the pressure being applied to them. It shouldn’t be allowed to instantly revive the lord 40 times to defend a fortification. The game is just rewarding bad defense at that point.
And again, no one says warriors alone are your problem. I am aware there are many classes that are able to rez the lord. BUT again, I don’t see this as the problem, if you read my early post I said quite clearly the fault is your for not killing the players. The game isn’t awarding bad offense, that seems to be the problem your having here. In my experience we don’t have problems with constant rezing of the lord unless we are trying to take a fully upgraded garrison or other structure with a waypoint. If this is the case those structures should be harder to take.
But wow, I can’t keep repeating myself like this.
Cheers, I am out.
What? Who else can rez npcs from defeated state other then warriors?
Anyway here’s a quote from Devon months ago about this “Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.”
Dear Anet…. I realize its a ‘strategy’ to use War-banners, signets, etc. to revive A keep/tower lord but its becoming abused. When gold and other forms of currency are used to attack and siege a keep, its shouldn’t be viable to have 30 War-banners used to wear down the attacking force and defend the keep. Would it be possible to restrict how many times the Lord can be Insta-rezzed? Or to NOT reset the cap-bar when the lord is bannered? This would bring more stability and fairness into WvW as currently Lord bannering can be quite broken.
Yes please, Remove interesting class mechanics just like swirling winds, because you know it’s so hard to clear a lord room and stop the enemy from bannering.
Leave it how it is, It’s fine, makes for more intense fights and is not to hard to counter, just karma trains who lack communication who struggle.
