Guild Wars 2

Some people were wanting to let the other servers cap SM to farm and finish achievements… That doesn’t look right at all.

Doesn’t matter if it’s Friday, or if your server can’t lose by points or if you need achievements, this is just not how the game should be played… Right? :P

Then you try to argue and get flamed in chat. :S

Are you new to WvW?
Typically on Friday or when a server gives up because they have no hope of winning, karma trains will occur.

Its been going forever
As for how the game is meant to be played, meh, i get xp as does everyone else so its all good.

Unless the match is really close, I don’t see the problem.

It is friday, I don’t care to upgrade or spend siege to defend so close to reset, especially since we are going to win regardless. I’ve done that all week and will do that again after reset until next flip.

SuKHoi.2063:

Are you new to WvW?
Typically on Friday or when a server gives up because their they have no hope of winning, karma trains will occur.

Its been going forever
As for how the game is meant to be played, meh, i get xp as does everyone else so its all good.

I play for 3 months, and I only play for WvW.

I have no problem with karma trains if your server can cap stuff because the other servers gave up or offer little to no resistance, but lose your stuff on purpose, ask the other servers to cap them and don’t defend at all, now that’t simply wrong.

We can even talk here how Anet failed somewhat on S1 achievements. Having to cap SM 5 times is too much, and the lack of defensive achievements is very bad.

Khaoz.2160:

SuKHoi.2063:

Are you new to WvW?
Typically on Friday or when a server gives up because their they have no hope of winning, karma trains will occur.

Its been going forever
As for how the game is meant to be played, meh, i get xp as does everyone else so its all good.

I play for 3 months, and I only play for WvW.

I have no problem with karma trains if your server can cap stuff because the other servers gave up or offer little to no resistance, but lose your stuff on purpose, ask the other servers to cap them and don’t defend at all, now that’t simply wrong.

We can even talk here how Anet failed somewhat on S1 achievements. Having to cap SM 5 times is too much, and the lack of defensive achievements is very bad.

In WvW you’ll find people on both sides of the fence, who feel pretty passionately about this sort of thing. This sorta stuff is what server drama is made of.

Pros:
1) Very rarely are matches not decided by Friday
2) It allows all combatants an opportunity to stack some WxP to make sure that everyone will be tougher in the next match
3) PvE achievement hunters are a detriment towards the play of all servers, it’s best to get the what they need to be on their way.

Cons:
1) Some people only know how to karma train and they don’t know any other way to play
2) People bring alts and then have a complete hissy when one of the servers decides to wreck a karma train (see this week’s BG-SoR-SoS thread)
3) It demoralizes those who want to play it straight

Chris.3290:

Cons:
1) Some people only know how to karma train and they don’t know any other way to play
2) People bring alts and then have a complete hissy when one of the servers decides to wreck a karma train (see this week’s BG-SoR-SoS thread)
3) It demoralizes those who want to play it straight

You forgot one …

4) It’s barely more fun than drowning your face in pepper spray.

Khaoz.2160:

Some people were wanting to let the other servers cap SM to farm and finish achievements… That doesn’t look right at all.

Doesn’t matter if it’s Friday, or if your server can’t lose by points or if you need achievements, this is just not how the game should be played… Right? :P

Then you try to argue and get flamed in chat. :S

Ok, I read that, and I am from SBI. Grumpy and others are just saying that we should let the other servers flip SM so they can get their achievements too. It really isn’t our fault that IoJ had a lot of transfers before the season, that makes them bronze league strength. But, even with that, why should they not be allowed to get their achievements?

Plus, what about people on our server, shouldn’t we be able to take it back and get our achievements? I do believe we held the thing almost the entire week.

There is no problem doing that on friday, it benefits all servers. Why be a sore winner? The other servers know they lost, but why rub it in their face. Have fun on Friday, and help everyone out.

My opinion is that SM should be held but not actively defended. It takes so many resources to defend it and the outer wall will almost always be down. I’ve seen servers lose so many camps/towers at the cost of holding SM.

I found that a very good way to hold your third of the map is to take SMC and just let the “shiny object” people do the defending while you lock down your third and attack outward.

I think this is simply a part of WvW’s culture. I have no problem trading objectives when it’s late in the week and the conclusion of the match is foregone. In fact, I think given the incentives placed before us (such as capping certain objectives an arbitrary number of times) and the need for WXP, I think it’s just common courtesy to trade objectives on Thursdays/Fridays of matches where the victors have already been decided.

Khaoz.2160:

Some people were wanting to let the other servers cap SM to farm and finish achievements… That doesn’t look right at all.

Doesn’t matter if it’s Friday, or if your server can’t lose by points or if you need achievements, this is just not how the game should be played… Right? :P

Then you try to argue and get flamed in chat. :S

Hi

Just FYI, on my server, SM flipping is not necessarily a bad thing. Many times it becomes an overall strategic server wide decision.

Reason being is that on Fridays especially after reset, it takes a HUGE amount of supplies to hold onto it and we would rather have those supplies available for upgrades on our own keep and towers rather then try to hold on to SM.

While we do cap it, and somewhat hold onto it for PPT, we do not repair or upgrade it. We will defend it by repeatedly wiping groups trying to get it from us and they eventually do, but our goal until we have our keep and the 2 rear towers fully secured is to keep it “paper” rather then invest all we have into it and keep losing all our other stuff due to SM supply drain.

So in fact, we use SM as a supply drain on our opponents and somewhat of a “buffer zone”.

The achievements thing just adds onto that a bit.

Please make sure that you actually verify that is not the case and you are on your commanders VOIP, before making accusations. Map chat often does not show strategies, juts people that dont understand them.

P.S. Also as posters above have stated, if we outnumber servers pretty badly and the conclusion is forgone, then we will usually be relaxed and let them flip stuff for some points, not just SM but other objectives as well. Reason for this is that if we prevent any points being made from the opposing servers whom we greatly outnumber, then it demoralizes them very badly and people stop playing all together. This is not what we want to happen.

Hope this helps you out a bit in the overall understanding of the game.

I agree its lame. Friday, meh, I’m not going to argue. Its a product of the uneven matches too.

But when people want to Karma train and trade assest starting on Monday, then I get kittened and I just log off. Don’t want to put up with that lame play.

Johje Holan.4607:

I agree its lame. Friday, meh, I’m not going to argue. Its a product of the uneven matches too.

But when people want to Karma train and trade assest starting on Monday, then I get kittened and I just log off. Don’t want to put up with that lame play.

Coming to cap your SM right now, pls dont defend k.

I’m also on SBI. Because of our population, unless we’re fighting FA, it’s rare for us to lose SM during this league. Last Friday we let other servers take it so they could get their achievements and stuff. With how much we’re ahead of the others by, I really don’t see the problem with it.

Someone’s new to WvW. This is clearly how Anet intended the game to be played and it won’t change till they decide to fix it.

While I don’t have a problem with it, I do think it sends mixed messages to new players and fair weathers that don’t know any better. On one hand we tell them to do x, y, z one day, then the next we tell them to not worry about it, and since the vast majority of them are not in TS they don’t understand the reasoning behind why we are doing it.

Zephyrus.9680:

Someone’s new to WvW. This is clearly how Anet intended the game to be played and it won’t change till they decide to fix it.

New or not he does have a point. While things are ever changing in world, the karma training that has become world during this league is promoting bad game play that during harder match ups we would not desire to have. When we are not consistent in what we do in world it confuses people, and they learn bad habits as a result.

When players on the same “team” have conflicting goals, that’s a game design fail.

This is compounded here by WXP being character bound and lopsided matches that are effectively over by the end of the weekend (if not before that).

this is another perfect example of server loyalty vs strategic gaming – or rather chess vs dodgeball.

Keeping sm is more about pride – recapping sm is more about tactics and points.

Unless you have enough people to defend sm – you are only wasting time and awarding the enemy extra points, because if they are big enough – chances are they are taking your land while keeping you stuck in sm defending. you are better off speed capping to get more shinies and wxp.

Adahilia.3678:

Zephyrus.9680:

Someone’s new to WvW. This is clearly how Anet intended the game to be played and it won’t change till they decide to fix it.

New or not he does have a point. While things are ever changing in world, the karma training that has become world during this league is promoting bad game play that during harder match ups we would not desire to have. When we are not consistent in what we do in world it confuses people, and they learn bad habits as a result.

Completely agree. However, the cause is from Anet’s broken reward (and PPT) system. Nothing will change ever until they decide to make upgraded objectives worth more for rewards and paper objectives worth less. Then the game would actually be more about defense, scouting, strategy, etc… And not just k-train for ppt, rewards, and everything else.

I have agree with Zephyrus, I think a kitten and T3 tower, keep, camp should also have points alotted as per rank.
My servers greatest weakness is in defence and scouting and having more points for a T3 than a T1 would maybe inspire them to put more effort into helping the people that usually scout and upgrade and have more people in the towers to defend.

why did it change T1 for kitten in the first line of my post, it makes no sense, while further down the post it didn’t censor T1

Not everyone cares at all about ppt/ladder yet they are enjoying WvW for wide variety of reasons.

WvW has so many things in it including “side” objectives and incentives, to the point where you lose ground when you are trying to argue that ppt and ladder is the only goal and everything else should be shunned and punished. Because it is obviously not, and you gotta deal with it.

Tongku.5326:

Khaoz.2160:

Some people were wanting to let the other servers cap SM to farm and finish achievements… That doesn’t look right at all.

Doesn’t matter if it’s Friday, or if your server can’t lose by points or if you need achievements, this is just not how the game should be played… Right? :P

Then you try to argue and get flamed in chat. :S

Hi

Just FYI, on my server, SM flipping is not necessarily a bad thing. Many times it becomes an overall strategic server wide decision.

Reason being is that on Fridays especially after reset, it takes a HUGE amount of supplies to hold onto it and we would rather have those supplies available for upgrades on our own keep and towers rather then try to hold on to SM.

While we do cap it, and somewhat hold onto it for PPT, we do not repair or upgrade it. We will defend it by repeatedly wiping groups trying to get it from us and they eventually do, but our goal until we have our keep and the 2 rear towers fully secured is to keep it “paper” rather then invest all we have into it and keep losing all our other stuff due to SM supply drain.

So in fact, we use SM as a supply drain on our opponents and somewhat of a “buffer zone”.

The achievements thing just adds onto that a bit.

Please make sure that you actually verify that is not the case and you are on your commanders VOIP, before making accusations. Map chat often does not show strategies, juts people that dont understand them.

P.S. Also as posters above have stated, if we outnumber servers pretty badly and the conclusion is forgone, then we will usually be relaxed and let them flip stuff for some points, not just SM but other objectives as well. Reason for this is that if we prevent any points being made from the opposing servers whom we greatly outnumber, then it demoralizes them very badly and people stop playing all together. This is not what we want to happen.

Hope this helps you out a bit in the overall understanding of the game.

I understand the strategy, but in this case, it was Friday before reset and we had absolutely no problems in holding our fully upgraded SM (outnumbered them easily)

If they say that we wouldn’t defend because the other server needs achievements, that’s just silly and wrong. They have 4 more weeks to get the achievements, I don’t think I should stop playing the game how it’s supposed to be played because WvW design is broken.

If you can’t get the achievements because the game is broken, go discuss in forums (e.g. “Collaborative Development: World Population”) a way to fix it, get a transfer, make a group and go try to cap other things… I know this is not right, I don’t think anyone should be forced to transfer just to enjoy wvw, but look at my point of view: I bought the game because it offers this amazing feature called “World vs World” where I need to group up, cap and defend things to sum points for my server, then somewhere in time someone tells me to not defend them.. I was like.. What?!? Q_Q

Despite all this complaints, I like the idea of let other servers cap stuff just to don’t demoralize and complete achievements (once we can’t lose at all this week), but only because the design is broken. Anet should address it as soon as possible.

Flipping SM back and forth is fun. SM is a major headache to maintain sometimes. It takes a lot of time and gold. I can see putting resources into something else and just using SM as a game ball to kick back and forth for goals.

Ayrilana.1396:

My opinion is that SM should be held but not actively defended. It takes so many resources to defend it and the outer wall will almost always be down. I’ve seen servers lose so many camps/towers at the cost of holding SM.

Good point; Ros did exactly this today. Commanders were so focused on getting Stonemist the opposition were running around capturing all camps & towers around our keep plus attacking our keep on numerous occasions.
Alternatively sides still want to capture SM & defend it as they gain the advantage of being able to treb towers & keeps if they are in reach which puts a lot more pressure on any server trying to capture SM, as you can almost be assured a large zerg will suddenly appear inside SM to oppose the attacking side.
To my thinking, if a side holds SM for long periods of time there is a good change they will win the match up.

Seems to work to defend SM if you get a lot of time to upgrade it, but otherwise, just smak it around. It is a fun place to fight.

extra bonus, you get to fight over the towers that can treb it or choke of its supply, whee!

It depends for me. There are some people that like to let SM upgrade to have a waypoint for easier karma training while others like to let it flip. I usually keep SM so that my name or reputation doesn’t go to crap but people are pretty forgiving/forgetful so its no big deal.

it’s great to have a waypoint in SM. But try getting your own keep sieged up first. That is hard enough with the attitude of a lot of commanders who couldn’t care less about supply camps until they want to build rams or golems way off in the distance.

If you don’t have the support of the zerg, your castle/keep/tower/camp is going to fall. May as well enjoy it.

Blackarps.1974:

It depends for me. There are some people that like to let SM upgrade to have a waypoint for easier karma training while others like to let it flip. I usually keep SM so that my name or reputation doesn’t go to crap but people are pretty forgiving/forgetful so its no big deal.

Hello, btw. You guys aren’t really cyborgs, are you? We in TC talk about how you seem to be machines that never sleep. We are way emotional and hard to herd over here, kindof like cats. We sleep a lot, you probably noticed.

we do wake up in the middle of the night, too, with a desire to bite.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

Hello, btw. You guys aren’t really cyborgs, are you? We in TC talk about how you seem to be machines that never sleep. We are way emotional and hard to herd over here, kindof like cats. We sleep a lot, you probably noticed.

lol it can feel that way on maps like EB. You figure out the level of the threat and then decide if you need to take the zerg there or not. There are lots of havoc/guild groups in WvW with BG and SoR that you have to pick and choose your battles so much. When we have the obvious size advantage with guys like you and Maguuma, we just keep moving forward and in circles for the loot. People do get bored of flipping the T1 towers and want to fight the enemy zergs so I’m sorry if it comes off like we are mean guys.

Yeah, we see you as kind of mechanical sometimes, but it has been a fun week. Working with JQ has improved us. We have had fun. : )

Personally, I have had a blast beating on you guys with trebs from my favorite tower, Langor, See you there.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

Personally, I have had a blast beating on you guys with trebs from my favorite tower, Langor, See you there.

Langor is pretty tough to take. If you siege it up and have plenty of supply for repairs, eventually the enemy commander will pull off just because its in such an awkward place.

And yes, we are a bit mechanical sometimes. I call it auto-pilot where I drop 2 rams and the wall next to me is down. It happens

Its friday, friday. Should i do rebecca black gw2 version parody?

Khaoz.2160:

SuKHoi.2063:

Are you new to WvW?
Typically on Friday or when a server gives up because their they have no hope of winning, karma trains will occur.

Its been going forever
As for how the game is meant to be played, meh, i get xp as does everyone else so its all good.

I play for 3 months, and I only play for WvW.

I have no problem with karma trains if your server can cap stuff because the other servers gave up or offer little to no resistance, but lose your stuff on purpose, ask the other servers to cap them and don’t defend at all, now that’t simply wrong.

We can even talk here how Anet failed somewhat on S1 achievements. Having to cap SM 5 times is too much, and the lack of defensive achievements is very bad.

Just like to point out that a “karma train” is exactly what you say is wrong. You cannot “train” when the other side doesn’t take things back from you.

I think of these Karma/WXP trains as good sportsmanship. The match is all but won. You’re up by so many points the other team can’t catch up. Do you stand firm and rub the losing side’s face in it by just holding everything? Or do you pull your guys back and let everyone have some fun and benefit? Maybe it’s my inner “soccer mom”, but the latter seems much better for all involved.

If you think defense is so important, why dont YOU buy a tag. Why dont YOU organize server tactics. why dont YOU form a guild dedicated to defense. Just because Pin or a few map chat says dont defend doesnt mean your havoq group cant use siege vs defenders. So basically your lack of ability to only follow a zerg means the game is broken?